1883

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

A cowboy on a drive made about $30 a month back then, for reference.

[utxmike05 1828]

Good thing they carry all that cash in their beat up hats.  Seems safe. 
 

 

[Mac8111 2117]

I love the fact that he spent her money on the mirror and he chipped in $15 on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[next2naus 439]

Here is something to nitpick about....at about 11:15 in S1E6....when the gypsy lady is thinking to sell her late husbands shotgun....you can see the buttplate and it looks plastic. Doubt there was any plate in 1883 or on a weapon from the "old world". Those are the details that matter to me, production details, not story telling. 

[veritas aequitas 443]

How many episodes until they reach the Trinity?

[GreenspointTexas 9689]

I like that the cook they hired is the bad guy from Wind River, livestock agent from Yellowstone, and also the chief of prison staff on Mayor of Kingstown

[billfromlaketravis 11545]

Me watching the gypsy lady's big scene. 

[veritas aequitas 443]

37 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I like that the cook they hired is the bad guy from Wind River, livestock agent from Yellowstone, and also the chief of prison staff on Mayor of Kingstown

So you are saying Taylor Sheridan is Adam Sandler?

[utxmike05 1828]

40 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I like that the cook they hired is the bad guy from Wind River, livestock agent from Yellowstone, and also the chief of prison staff on Mayor of Kingstown

Just wait until we see the native americans in 1883....pretty sure they will be familiar.

[GreenspointTexas 9689]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Me watching the gypsy lady's big scene. 

Tim Robbins ex wife? Yeah, she fine

[atomheartbevo 89847]

9 hours ago, utxmike05 said:

Did the mention how much they got paid for each German?  

9 hours ago, Juicy said:

I think it was $250 a person and there were like 160 of them at the start so 40k. Sam Elliot could have opened a bank.

Only $250?  Germans seem like they'd have more money and be a lot more trouble than $250.

 

 

[bolverk 29737]

On 1/30/2022 at 6:52 AM, RPM said:

Really good episode. I think maybe they have been referencing Abilene, Kansas as the restocking point? We naturally think of Abilene, Texas but it would make more sense trip/story wise. Tim wasn't the only one to give a good performance.

I'm so glad they're leaving Texas now, and I won't be so bothered by the writers' geographic ineptitude.

Here's their path so far:

They traveled north out of Fort Worth, maybe following the Chisolm Trail, got close to the Red River and decided it was too high to cross. They discussed heading east or west, and decided to go west toward Abilene which led them to cross the Brazos River (just north of the Clear Fork) near present-day Graham and close to the then abandoned Fort Belknap on the map below.

Then, suddenly, they're somewhere out near the 6666 Ranch and are now about to cross the Red River just north of Vernon at Doan's Crossing seemingly in a plan to follow the Western Cattle Trail without mentioning that they would've had to cross the Brazos AGAIN to get there. Why cross it in the first place if they were heading to Doan's all along?

Now, they want us to believe they were talking about Abilene, Kansas, this whole time which would be well to the east of where they're heading? Madness.

/rant

 

[Buzzrock 14950]

Isabel May cries through her nose

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

5 hours ago, next2naus said:

Here is something to nitpick about....at about 11:15 in S1E6....when the gypsy lady is thinking to sell her late husbands shotgun....you can see the buttplate and it looks plastic. Doubt there was any plate in 1883 or on a weapon from the "old world". Those are the details that matter to me, production details, not story telling. 

Hard rubber, or gutta percha. Been around since the 1830's. The first generation Colt SAA's grips were made out of it.

[Buzzrock 14950]

Me watching the gypsy lady's big scene. 

All I can think during scenes like that is how atrocious everyone’s dental hygiene was back then.

[atomheartbevo 89847]

24 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Hard rubber, or gutta percha. Been around since the 1830's. The first generation Colt SAA's grips were made out of it.

Even earlier than that (but I don't think used in the Western world), but yeah, used for a lot of things we think of plastic being used for, all the way up to when Bakelite saw mainstream use.  Will have to go back and look at the show, but normally they are black or dark red, but over time they start to look gray or brown.

That cane that was used to beat the shit out of Charles Sumner in the 1850s?  Gutta percha.  Colt forums usually have somebody asking about getting replica grips made out of the stuff. 

Definitely would have been shotgun buttplates made out of the stuff in the 1880s.  I don't know if it's just the age or condition of the one I used several years ago, but it was hard as shit.  Edit: In hindsight, may not have been.

Edited February 1, 2022 by atomheartbevo

[veritas aequitas 443]

21 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Hard rubber, or gutta percha. Been around since the 1830's. The first generation Colt SAA's grips were made out of it.

Celluloid was used for a lot of stuff starting in 1860s too, some pistol grips were made from them

[mchookem 16415]

i went looking for a map of their route as i figured surely someone had done that... didn't find one but did find this, which offers a theory for the haphazard route and apparent lack of planning...

https://screenrant.com/1883-duttons-no-plan-map-explained/

basically says reliable maps and route information were nonexistent at the time, the area was not well-documented bc it was dominated by Native American tribes who probably didn't cotton to cartography by the white man.

i mean...maybe? seems like they could have invested in a reliable NA guide, that's what the Army did. 

also it reads like a college film class essay 😄

Edited February 1, 2022 by mchookem

[atomheartbevo 89847]

34 minutes ago, mchookem said:

basically says reliable maps and route information were nonexistent at the time, the area was not well-documented bc it was dominated by Native American tribes who probably didn't cotton to cartography by the white man.

i mean...maybe? seems like they could have invested in a reliable NA guide, that's what the Army did.

In 1883 there were a lot of railroad lines crossing those routes, so there were plenty of fairly reliable maps.

This is just the result of trying to save some money or some other production-related issue.  Or shitty plotting (or plodding).

[bolverk 29737]

27 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i went looking for a map of their route as i figured surely someone had done that... didn't find one but did find this, which offers a theory for the haphazard route and apparent lack of planning...

https://screenrant.com/1883-duttons-no-plan-map-explained/

basically says reliable maps and route information were nonexistent at the time, the area was not well-documented bc it was dominated by Native American tribes who probably didn't cotton to cartography by the white man.

i mean...maybe? seems like they could have invested in a reliable NA guide, that's what the Army did. 

also it reads like a college film class essay 😄

Yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit. By 1883, there were well-known river crossings (and ferries) crossing the Red River at Gainesville and Denison - both of which could've gotten them to Abilene, Kansas, if that was their destination. Moreover, the Texas & Pacific Railroad hooked up with the Southern Pacific around Sierra Blanca in 1881 and could've taken the Germans/Slavs/Romani directly from Fort Worth to California for a fraction of the cost to cross the continent in Conestoga wagons. Finally, the cattle trails were all very well established by then, having been used for years prior to the time depicted in the show.

I really want to like this show and will continue watching, but for a program that sells itself as historically accurate, authentic, and realistic, they've overstated how unknown the West was at that point. Hell, Captain Marcy had already blazed a trail to the West Coast from the DFW area by 1859, and he took very good notes. Robert E. Lee and Jeff Davis had even spent time out there.

[wild_turkey 3186]

Here's their path so far:
They traveled north out of Fort Worth, maybe following the Chisolm Trail, got close to the Red River and decided it was too high to cross. They discussed heading east or west, and decided to go west toward Abilene which led them to cross the Brazos River (just north of the Clear Fork) near present-day Graham and close to the then abandoned Fort Belknap on the map below.
Then, suddenly, they're somewhere out near the 6666 Ranch and are now about to cross the Red River just north of Vernon at Doan's Crossing seemingly in a plan to follow the Western Cattle Trail without mentioning that they would've had to cross the Brazos AGAIN to get there. Why cross it in the first place if they were heading to Doan's all along?
Now, they want us to believe they were talking about Abilene, Kansas, this whole time which would be well to the east of where they're heading? Madness.

Here is a quick markup of their route so far:



Crossing the Brazos the first time was stupid and pointless. They absolutely must have crossed it a second time to end up back on the north side of it, which the show never mentions.

Then while they are at Doan’s trying to hire a cook, I believe Thomas mentioned a possible resupply in Abilene. I added Abilene to the map to show how absolutely ridiculous that would be in their current location. I don’t personally buy the Abilene, KS explanation (which I think was floated by other confused fans and not the show itself) because it is directly north of Fort Worth and it would’ve been completely reasonable to travel via the Denison ferry if that was their plan all along.

I also don’t buy the explanation that everyone was directionally challenged due to poor information at the time. There were established travel routes, ferries, and maps. If they were so stupid that they left the Red River and headed back south to cross the Brazos and end up on the wrong side of it, then they really have no business going across the country in the first place.

This all might be a little more forgivable if the writer of the show wasn’t from this part of the state. He has no excuse mixing these things up this poorly and there is no reason from a plot standpoint that it needed to be this jumbled. There are plenty of ways to write the show thus far and have it make geographical sense.

These types of absurdities are what separate great TV and movies from decent TV and movies.

[next2naus 439]

13 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Hard rubber, or gutta percha. Been around since the 1830's. The first generation Colt SAA's grips were made out of it.

Maybe. looked out of place and It only caught my eye as I have been restoring a Remington Model 12 takedown .22 and getting a period correct well fitting plate has been a whip. 

[Nivek 16994]

This is getting a walking dead feel to it. Started out well enough but the stupid is getting a but much. Still dont understand their trap for the bandits.

[utxmike05 1828]

4 minutes ago, Nivek said:

This is getting a walking dead feel to it. Started out well enough but the stupid is getting a but much. Still dont understand their trap for the bandits.

Yup risky trap...especially when they have 3 ex-military guys leading the group.

[Texzilla58 4745]

Here is a quick markup of their route so far:



Crossing the Brazos the first time was stupid and pointless. They absolutely must have crossed it a second time to end up back on the north side of it, which the show never mentions.

Then while they are at Doan’s trying to hire a cook, I believe Thomas mentioned a possible resupply in Abilene. I added Abilene to the map to show how absolutely ridiculous that would be in their current location. I don’t personally buy the Abilene, KS explanation (which I think was floated by other confused fans and not the show itself) because it is directly north of Fort Worth and it would’ve been completely reasonable to travel via the Denison ferry if that was their plan all along.

I also don’t buy the explanation that everyone was directionally challenged due to poor information at the time. There were established travel routes, ferries, and maps. If they were so stupid that they left the Red River and headed back south to cross the Brazos and end up on the wrong side of it, then they really have no business going across the country in the first place.

This all might be a little more forgivable if the writer of the show wasn’t from this part of the state. He has no excuse mixing these things up this poorly and there is no reason from a plot standpoint that it needed to be this jumbled. There are plenty of ways to write the show thus far and have it make geographical sense.

These types of absurdities are what separate great TV and movies from decent TV and movies.

Agree with all. By 1883 there was plenty of railroads, established cattle trails, and Comanche were on the res, Quanah Parker having surrendered about a decade earlier. There is plenty of historical records to help the writers. It’s like they combined decades of Texas history into one story.

[utxmike05 1828]

But will there be a Red River Shootout?

[VirginiaLonghorn 4784]

32 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

But will there be a Red River Shootout?

Well … chalk up another L.

[MissingInAction 25214]

Isabel's new batman voice is annoying af. I'm glad she gets an arrow to the gut later.

[Nivek 16994]

Isabel's new batman voice is annoying af. I'm glad she gets an arrow to the gut later.

Its more Elizabeth Holmes than batman.

[utxmike05 1828]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:08 AM, Texzilla58 said:

Agree with all. By 1883 there was plenty of railroads, established cattle trails, and Comanche were on the res, Quanah Parker having surrendered about a decade earlier. There is plenty of historical records to help the writers. It’s like they combined decades of Texas history into one story.

On 1/31/2022 at 10:55 PM, wild_turkey said:

 

Here is a quick markup of their route so far:



Crossing the Brazos the first time was stupid and pointless. They absolutely must have crossed it a second time to end up back on the north side of it, which the show never mentions.

Then while they are at Doan’s trying to hire a cook, I believe Thomas mentioned a possible resupply in Abilene. I added Abilene to the map to show how absolutely ridiculous that would be in their current location. I don’t personally buy the Abilene, KS explanation (which I think was floated by other confused fans and not the show itself) because it is directly north of Fort Worth and it would’ve been completely reasonable to travel via the Denison ferry if that was their plan all along.

I also don’t buy the explanation that everyone was directionally challenged due to poor information at the time. There were established travel routes, ferries, and maps. If they were so stupid that they left the Red River and headed back south to cross the Brazos and end up on the wrong side of it, then they really have no business going across the country in the first place.

This all might be a little more forgivable if the writer of the show wasn’t from this part of the state. He has no excuse mixing these things up this poorly and there is no reason from a plot standpoint that it needed to be this jumbled. There are plenty of ways to write the show thus far and have it make geographical sense.

These types of absurdities are what separate great TV and movies from decent TV and movies.

 

 

Reddit has their own map of route. Shows different branches of Brazos that makes more sense so their route is NW  

 

 

 

[wild_turkey 3186]

Reddit has their own map of route. Shows different branches of Brazos that makes more sense so their route is NW  

That map isn’t accurate from what we’ve seen in the show.

At the beginning of episode 3 (River), they are looking at a river discussing what to do. I don’t think we were told specifically which river it was, but there were some clues it was the Red. Shea wanted to go east to the Denison ferry which is on the Red. He argued that if they went west, they would have to cross the Brazos. The way it was said strongly suggested they weren’t looking at the Brazos as the conversation was happening. So the Reddit map you posted doesn’t show them going to the Red in that episode.

Secondly, at the beginning of episode 5, Elsa says in her narration they “crossed the main stem of the Brazos, just north of the Clear Fork.” The Clear Fork is that southernmost fork of the Brazos, which I highlighted in yellow below. Just north of that would be about where I added the red arrow to the Reddit map, which again, puts them going the wrong direction. The black dashed line that was originally marked on the map is not crossing the main stem of the Brazos, which is clearly contradictory to specific details provided by the show.

[cmontexas 3283]

Shoulda stopped at Giant Burger on 287 in Rhome on their way out

[troph 24914]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:03 PM, bolverk said:

I'm so glad they're leaving Texas now, and I won't be so bothered by the writers' geographic ineptitude.

Here's their path so far:

They traveled north out of Fort Worth, maybe following the Chisolm Trail, got close to the Red River and decided it was too high to cross. They discussed heading east or west, and decided to go west toward Abilene which led them to cross the Brazos River (just north of the Clear Fork) near present-day Graham and close to the then abandoned Fort Belknap on the map below.

Then, suddenly, they're somewhere out near the 6666 Ranch and are now about to cross the Red River just north of Vernon at Doan's Crossing seemingly in a plan to follow the Western Cattle Trail without mentioning that they would've had to cross the Brazos AGAIN to get there. Why cross it in the first place if they were heading to Doan's all along?

Now, they want us to believe they were talking about Abilene, Kansas, this whole time which would be well to the east of where they're heading? Madness.

/rant

 

I was following the map too and wondered why - if they are going west then north - they wouldn’t thread between the rivers through Texas. You can get pretty damn well all the way into the front range of Colorado through New Mexico without crossing a single one. Now going north or the shortest distance yeah, there are river crossings but with the worry and the plot line about such crossings it seems like a easy thing to avoid for at least a while. I lost interest in following the map when they failed to re-cross the brazos on their way north to doan’s crossing. I left it unresolved and suspended belief and just went along. Still some of the best television out there right now.

Edited February 4, 2022 by troph

[veritas aequitas 443]

11 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Shoulda stopped at Giant Burger on 287 in Rhome on their way out

The extra week of travel to Jacksboro for a burger at Kwik Stop would be worth it.

[Texzilla58 4745]

Went right past 407 BBQ in Argyle without stopping. Could have trained all those dead Germans how to shoot at the big ass gun range behind and snagged a few ARs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[utxmike05 1828]

Yea the map stuff doesn't really matter to me I guess...they can't really use Waze.  Just a bunch of stubborn dudes that think they know more than the other.  I barely know North Texas...

[thrillhammer 684]

is this ever gonna make it on paramount or cmt?  something non-streaming?

[Mac8111 2117]

I doubt it. It is their hook to get you to pay for streaming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shadow_operative2.0 16038]

$5 on Monday will probably get you through the end of the season after you catch up on the first 7 eps. 

[thrillhammer 684]

i recorded the second episode on cmt and still have on my dvr but need to have the whole series for it to be worth anything.  or at least the first episode.

[shadow_operative2.0 16038]

Again, spend $5 next week. You get your first week free, then a month. The first 7 eps will be there, 5 weeks should get you through the final 3. 

[RPM 26366]

9 hours ago, veritas aequitas said:

The extra week of travel to Jacksboro for a burger at Kwik Stop would be worth it.

Even the fucking Germans would know to go to Herd's. Kwik Stop? Get a rope.

[veritas aequitas 443]

20 minutes ago, RPM said:

Even the fucking Germans would know to go to Herd's. Kwik Stop? Get a rope.

Uh, Herd's little smashed thin patty and school desks suck compared to Kwik Stop

[RPM 26366]

1 minute ago, veritas aequitas said:

Uh, Herd's little smashed thin patty and school desks suck compared to Kwik Stop

[shadow_operative2.0 16038]

Oh boy, the thread miserables will really hate this episode. 

I dug it, because I ain’t looking for a fucking geography/history lesson from a goddamn TV show. 

New cowboy is great. 

That was quite the firefight. 

[RPM 26366]

Great episode, flaws aside.

[Buzzrock 14950]

Elsa’s voiceovers and poetic crap just makes me laugh now. Sheridan seems to only be able to write caricatures of women.

I guess Elsa is a believer in the old adage that the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else.

[Buzzrock 14950]

Lol of course Sheridan writes himself in as a hotshot.

[veritas aequitas 443]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:04 PM, RPM said:

Someone hasn't had a burger at kwik stop I see.

[RPM 26366]

1 minute ago, veritas aequitas said:

Someone hasn't had a burger at kwik stop I see.

Have they used the same grill for 105 years? I didn't think so.