Formula 1 2022

[G650 14256]

10 hours ago, G650 said:

Alpine might out clown Ferrari this year.

Ahem

[McCroskey 1504]

[utee94 15823]

Announce DeVries taking Latifi's seat...?

[utee94 15823]

I guess this is the big news?

 

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

whooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[hookem17 485]

 

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

[utee94 15823]

 

[RPM 26321]

[Chewbacca 7779]

Apparently Otmar says he'd be open to taking Danny back if Piastri ends up leaving for McLaren.  Would probably be the best for everyone at this point.  

I'm still unsure of what McLaren's move is here.  Are they really prepared to eat all of Danny's 2023 contract if he calls their bluff?  It's my understanding that is somewhere around $15-20 million.  Definitely losing some respect for the way Zak Brown has handled the situation so far.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/szafnauer-no-issue-in-bringing-ricciardo-back-to-alpine-f1-team/10348007/

 

[Burt Macklin 19024]

19 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Apparently Otmar says he'd be open to taking Danny back if Piastri ends up leaving for McLaren.  Would probably be the best for everyone at this point.  

I'm still unsure of what McLaren's move is here.  Are they really prepared to eat all of Danny's 2023 contract if he calls their bluff?  It's my understanding that is somewhere around $15-20 million.  Definitely losing some respect for the way Zak Brown has handled the situation so far.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/szafnauer-no-issue-in-bringing-ricciardo-back-to-alpine-f1-team/10348007/

 

I think a Piastri-Ricciardo switch makes the most sense for everyone involved, but I doubt McLaren will be willing to pay his full buyout, so Alpine would need to pay Danny Ric a market value contract to offset some of the McL buyout, and I'm not sure Alpine would be willing to make that work since I'm sure they're mad at McLaren for how all this has gone down. 

[Chewbacca 7779]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think a Piastri-Ricciardo switch makes the most sense for everyone involved, but I doubt McLaren will be willing to pay his full buyout, so Alpine would need to pay Danny Ric a market value contract to offset some of the McL buyout, and I'm not sure Alpine would be willing to make that work since I'm sure they're mad at McLaren for how all this has gone down. 

If Danny calls Zak's bluff, McLaren is going to pay for both Danny and Piastri next year, so them footing at least part of the bill for Danny's salary for 2023 wouldn't surprise me.

[Burt Macklin 19024]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

If Danny calls Zak's bluff, McLaren is going to pay for both Danny and Piastri next year, so them footing at least part of the bill for Danny's salary for 2023 wouldn't surprise me.

Right. They'll absolutely be paying Danny something, but whatever Alpine pay Danny Ric can go towards paying Piastri so McLaren will still be paying about the same amount. I could also see Piastri taking a smaller salary next year just to get in the seat and then getting paid substantially more after 2023. 

[NoName 16352]

12 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think a Piastri-Ricciardo switch makes the most sense for everyone involved, but I doubt McLaren will be willing to pay his full buyout, so Alpine would need to pay Danny Ric a market value contract to offset some of the McL buyout, and I'm not sure Alpine would be willing to make that work since I'm sure they're mad at McLaren for how all this has gone down. 

at this point the best hope for Danny Ric is to move over to Alpine and get additional years on his current deal.

he has been pretty clear he doesn't want to be done with F1, so doubt they can stash him in Extreme E or Formula E or wherever

[Burt Macklin 19024]

12 minutes ago, NoName said:

at this point the best hope for Danny Ric is to move over to Alpine and get additional years on his current deal.

he has been pretty clear he doesn't want to be done with F1, so doubt they can stash him in Extreme E or Formula E or wherever

Yeah, his best shot at a seat that's not a backmarker in 2024 is to use this situation to leverage Alpine into a multi-year deal. Otherwise, his only options for 2024 might be Haas or Williams, so it would make sense for him to settle with McLaren if he can switch to Alpine. 

[Chewbacca 7779]

3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, his best shot at a seat that's not a backmarker in 2024 is to use this situation to leverage Alpine into a multi-year deal. Otherwise, his only options for 2024 might be Haas or Williams, so it would make sense for him to settle with McLaren if he can switch to Alpine. 

I don't think he goes to Alpine without at least a 2 year deal, but I could be wrong.

[Burt Macklin 19024]

Just now, Chewbacca said:

I don't think he goes to Alpine without at least a 2 year deal, but I could be wrong.

Right. That's what I'm saying.  Alpine have literally no one to drive for them next year now, so Danny Ric can use that as leverage to get multiple years out of them if he hops over starting next year. 

[NoName 16352]

21 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Right. That's what I'm saying.  Alpine have literally no one to drive for them next year now, so Danny Ric can use that as leverage to get multiple years out of them if he hops over starting next year. 

I still can't believe they signed Ocon to a contract through 2024.

[G650 14256]

Quote

Let's get to the logical conclusion here, Pastor Maldonardo, announces the he hasn't crashed on his way to signing for Alpine, but he did come close to bumping his shopping trolley in Aldi

lullz

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

If Danny calls Zak's bluff, McLaren is going to pay for both Danny and Piastri next year, so them footing at least part of the bill for Danny's salary for 2023 wouldn't surprise me.

I have no real sense of budgets in F1, but was under the impression the biggest teams spend in the low hundreds of millions annually (e.g. ~$150 million) while drivers -- except for the biggest names like Max and Lewis -- make in the ones of millions. Am I way off base?

[Burt Macklin 19024]

21 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I have no real sense of budgets in F1, but was under the impression the biggest teams spend in the low hundreds of millions annually (e.g. ~$150 million) while drivers -- except for the biggest names like Max and Lewis -- make in the ones of millions. Am I way off base?

Pre-budget cap, the big teams spent about $500mm per year. There’s a lot of stuff outside the budget, including engines, so the big teams probably still spend north of $300mm. 
 

As for Drivers Danny Ric makes $20 or $25mm, can’t remember which. Both Carlos and Charles make 8 figures per year.  Piastri could probably be signed for fairly cheap (7 figures) in 2023 since he’s a rookie who needs a seat. 

[Mittens 8284]

Should you find yourself with some extra time on your hands, and enjoy livery pron, this is the rabbit hole for you:

 

[Dutch 4465]

59 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I have no real sense of budgets in F1, but was under the impression the biggest teams spend in the low hundreds of millions annually (e.g. ~$150 million) while drivers -- except for the biggest names like Max and Lewis -- make in the ones of millions. Am I way off base?

I had no idea Zak was so fond of Lando: T3 on grid along side a two-time champion.

Pos	Driver	Team	Age	Salary (GBP £)	Salary (USD $)	Salary (EUR €)
1	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	37	£32m	$40m	€38m
2	Max Verstappen	Red Bull	24	£20m	$25m	€23.75m
3	Fernando Alonso	Alpine	40	£16m	$20m	€19m
–	Lando Norris	McLaren	22	£16m	$20m	€19m
5	Sebastian Vettel	Aston Martin	34	£12m	$15m	€14.25m
–	Daniel Ricciardo	McLaren	32	£12m	$15m	€14.25m
7	Charles Leclerc	Ferrari	24	£9.6m	$12m	€11.4m
8	Valtteri Bottas	Alfa Romeo	32	£8m	$10m	€9.5m
–	Lance Stroll	Aston Martin	23	£8m	$10m	€9.5m
–	Carlos Sainz Jnr	Ferrari	27	£8m	$10m	€9.5m
11	Sergio Perez	Red Bull	32	£6.4m	$8m	€7.6m
12	Kevin Magnussen	Haas	29	£4.8m	$6m	€5.7m
13	Pierre Gasly	AlphaTauri	26	£4m	$5m	€4.75m
–	Esteban Ocon	Alpine	25	£4m	$5m	€4.75m
–	George Russell	Mercedes	24	£4m	$5m	€4.75m
16	Alexander Albon	Williams	26	£1.6m	$2m	€1.9m
17	Mick Schumacher	Haas	22	£800,000	$1m	€950,000
–	Zhou Guanyu	Alfa Romeo	22	£800,000	$1m	€950,000
–	Nicholas Latifi	Williams	26	£800,000	$1m	€950,000
20	Yuki Tsunoda	AlphaTauri	21	£600,000	$750,000	€712,500

And contract length.

Driver	Team	Contract end
Max Verstappen	Red Bull	2028
Lando Norris	McLaren	2025
Charles Leclerc	Ferrari	2024
Esteban Ocon	Alpine	2024
Valtteri Bottas	Alfa Romeo	2024
Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	2023
George Russell	Mercedes	2023
Daniel Ricciardo	McLaren	2023
Pierre Gasly	AlphaTauri	2023
Kevin Magnussen	Haas	2023
Sergio Perez	Red Bull	2024
Carlos Sainz	Ferrari	2024
Fernando Alonso	Aston Martin	2025
Yuki Tsunoda	AlphaTauri	2022
Piastri? Danny Ric? A fellow Surly asshole? Who knows...	Alpine	????
Lance Stroll	Aston Martin	2022
Alex Albon	Williams	2024
Nicholas Latifi	Williams	2022
Guanyu Zhou	Alfa Romeo	2022
Mick Schumacher	Haas	2022

 

 

[Guest]

Man, lot of guys high on that list that don't seem worth the money they are earning.

Alonso through Ricciardo, WTF? And Stroll? 

Edit. Alonso may be worth it in a good ride. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[Chewbacca 7779]

28 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

And Stroll? 

I think that's just Stroll's allowance.

[Levi 2586]

41 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Man, lot of guys high on that list that don't seem worth the money they are earning.

Alonso through Ricciardo, WTF? And Stroll? 

Edit. Alonso may be worth it in a good ride. 

While not strong at all, the only argument you could make for Danny is that he is one of the most marketable drivers on the grid. He brings McLaren a ton of money outside of the track. Even then that amount is still too much for him at this point in his career. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DoneWithit said:

While not strong at all, the only argument you could make for Danny is that he is one of the most marketable drivers on the grid. He brings McLaren a ton of money outside of the track. Even then that amount is still too much for him at this point in his career. 

Yeah definite good point. 

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

Alonso also brings marketability and more importantly competency with car set up and development along with his considerable skill. He's worth every penny, I'm sure. 

[kevwun 15789]

2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Man, lot of guys high on that list that don't seem worth the money they are earning.

Alonso through Ricciardo, WTF? And Stroll? 

Edit. Alonso may be worth it in a good ride. 

When you consider how much money Stroll's old man has wasted so that he can wreck or finish in the bottom 5 in Formula 1 races, $10 million more per year is a rounding error.

Edited August 4, 2022 by kevwun

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

It's all priceless when you consider the friends he's made along the way. 

[52-80 19159]

not sure how accurate those numbers are.  f1 salary are quite a bit more hush hush than other major sports.  it was a common belief that ricciardo gets paid much more than that

[Superhero 8830]

Lance Stroll's contract ends in 2022 + however much longer Daddy Stroll is willing to keep him on payroll.

[wood 11225]

On 7/24/2022 at 7:36 AM, TonyTexas said:

I didn’t get into F1 until after Nico Rosberg retired. A brief look at his Wiki page reveals an interesting guy. Smart as hell. Movie star looks.  Retired on top and now living the good life in Monaco, running an ice cream shop. What kind of driver was he?

They don't call him Brittney for nothing.

[wood 11225]

On 7/27/2022 at 1:51 PM, Mittens said:

Does that mean Honda is 100% out of F1 now?  I'm not feeling sorry for multibillion dollar international corporations, but I definitely have a soft spot for Honda powerplants in Formula 1.  Nostalgia and whatnot.

Given that Porsche is my favorite car manufacturer ever, I might have to go all in on RBR.  Checo, of course, but still...

I guess they'd be out as soon as Porsche steps in, but iirc that's not until 2026. Officially, they're already out, but that's still a Honda PU in that car. It just doesn't say Honda on it.

I also read a rumor the other day about Honda already wanting back into F1. I guess in 2026 also.

Edited August 5, 2022 by wood

[wood 11225]

On 7/20/2022 at 9:05 AM, ConferenceRoom said:

This is such a great graphic. Vettel with 4 WDCs but never won a race starting lower than P3. Unreal.

[wood 11225]

On 7/28/2022 at 8:54 AM, ConferenceRoom said:

The low point for me with Seb was Multi 21, but he's come such a long way from that. Smart and conscientious with pretty good senses of humor and humility. He'll be a big miss on the grid. But new blood is always welcome, so here's hoping we get a good one. 

I heard his replacement is pretty decent.

[wood 11225]

On 7/28/2022 at 7:44 AM, utee94 said:

I never liked him much but he was growing on me in recent years.  I'd rather he stayed but it's probably time for some of the older guys to move on and make some room.

Except for Fred.  I hope he stays forever. 

Maybe he won't be there forever, unfortunately, but 3 more years isn't bad.

[wood 11225]

On 7/31/2022 at 8:47 AM, elfenix said:

overly aggressive defending there george

Yep. And did you see Ocon blocking Alonso and forcing him to the wall?

[wood 11225]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:54 AM, kevwun said:

Ferrari would do better consulting a Magic 8 ball.

And Alpine. They seem to lock in on a plan early on and then refuse to adapt at all during the weekend and during the race.

[wood 11225]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:08 AM, PittsburghTiger said:

Nor did I. I was just thinking a few hours ago about asking if anyone heard of any replacements for Vettel, you know, young guys on the rise. Now this.This quote from Alonso, from the Formula 1 website, though I just don't see it. I wanted it to be true for Vettel but, even though they have hired a ton of people the results are sparse.

...

IMHO the key hire for them was when they pulled Dan Fallows from RBR. He only started with AM in April, after the car was done.

[wood 11225]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:12 AM, utee94 said:

Alpine seems more competitive than AM.   Another in a long string of bad Fred choices?

 

They are, atm, but imho the upside at AM is higher. Alpine are also a clown show on the business side. They painted themselves into a corner by extending Ocon too soon, which limited  their options severely, then tried to keep Alonso on a 1 year deal and farm Piastri out. They could have had Alonso in one seat, with Piastri learnbing from him in the other. Instead, it appears they managed to lose them both.

So Alpine were limited by the early extension of Ocon, and tried to offer Alonso a 1 year deal when they knew he wanted more. AM offered 3, and more money. So he took it.

Re: the long string of 'bad' Fred choices, it's only with 20/20 hindsight that we can say they were bad choices. At the time, nobody was saying he shouldn't go to Renault, McLaren the first time, or Ferrari. Nobody saw RBR coming as a dominant team. His second stint at McLaren, he was rolling the dice on Honda, having seen more than enough of the Ferrari clown show to know that a championship wasn't happening there anytime soon. Honda shit the bed, so that didn't work out. 

[wood 11225]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:37 AM, Anton Chigurh said:

Sounds like he wanted more than a 1 year deal which Alpine wouldn’t do because of Piastri. Which is fair, since they aren’t fighting for wins anyway and he wants a big salary, and Alpine does want Piastri in the car sooner rather than later.

I'm not sure how big of a salary Alonso wanted, but I'm sure he wanted to be paid more than the teammate he's consistently quicker than. And they could have had Alonso and Piastri had they not stupidly extended Ocon months ago. Now they have ... Ocon. And that's it.

[wood 11225]

@utee94 I see you qualified that, and I agree it was often just timing and the whole 'not having a crystal ball' thing. He could have gone to RBR right before their run started, but instead he chose Ferrari. Nobody at the time was telling him he should have gone to RBR.

BTW, y'all ... sorry for 50 posts in a row. Been in Europe since 7/20 & just got back. Tryna catch up.

Edited August 5, 2022 by wood

[wood 11225]

On 8/1/2022 at 8:34 AM, kevwun said:

I doubt they came to an agreement that fast.  I would bet it's been in the works since Vettel announced he was retiring.  It probably played in to Alonso not giving a shit and letting Ocon know about it though.

I read somewhere that AM were already talking to Alonso, and knew Vettel was waivering, so they asked him what he wanted to do, which led to his retirement announcement. AM also tried to pull Alonso first before they hired Vettel.

[wood 11225]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:14 AM, PittsburghTiger said:

We were talking about that the other day. I too think it is time to do away with it.

As do I.

Kill DRS with fire.

[wood 11225]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:24 AM, NoName said:

close racing != passing though

doing away with DRS leads to fewer passes, which leads to less interesting races, which makes the technical job teams do WAY more important

at the Azerbaijan GP, Red Bull was 25km/h faster than FER on the long straight:

• FERRARI 321 km/h
• RBR 331 km/h
• MER 317 km/h
• ALPINE 329 km/h
• AT 328 km/h
• HAAS 318 km/h
• ALFA 316 km/h

that isn't going to make for interesting races or growth of the sport.

i agree that medium to long term, getting away from DRS is the right move. but right now? no thanks.

I disagree that taking it away would make the races less interesting. More passing doesn't automatically make for a better race. I'd rather see 1 great battle that ends with no passes than 10 easy DRS drivebys. And DRS also deprives us of many good battles that do end in passes.

[wood 11225]

On 8/2/2022 at 10:21 AM, Amos Moses said:

Otmar appears to be a bit behind and overmatched.

Yeah in less than 2 full season over the last 3, we've now seen 2 significant driver contract issues under his watch. 

[wood 11225]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:55 PM, NoName said:

I still can't believe they signed Ocon to a contract through 2024.

Yeah it's pretty fucking bizarre. "Ocon is our 2nd or 3rd best driver, so we better lock him up & then let the Piastri/Alonso chips fall where they may". Fucking idiots.

[Mittens 8284]

 

 

[NoName 16352]

5 hours ago, wood said:

Yeah it's pretty fucking bizarre. "Ocon is our 2nd or 3rd best driver, so we better lock him up & then let the Piastri/Alonso chips fall where they may". Fucking idiots.

I could understand if they were like Williams or Alfa and wanted to lock in a decent dude for a while. Or even if they were Haas and they believed in Ocon a ton. Just seems super strange and not like a good strategic decision