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Posted

I literally laughed out loud on the Max pass of Lewis at the restart.

The tension builds, the scene is set. A battle of the two greats... and Max passes him within seconds while Lewis complains on the radio.

 

Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 4:18 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

I literally laughed out loud on the Max pass of Lewis at the restart.

The tension builds, the scene is set. A battle of the two greats... and Max passes him within seconds while Lewis complains on the radio.

 

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I knew Max was going to pass him because he had newer tires and his car was faster, but I figured it would take a couple laps at least.

 

Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 5:35 PM, Huckleberry said:

The way I see it is his teammate chose not to get boned by the team. Russell decided he wasn't going to just run interference for Hamilton, he was going to maximize his own finishing position. And he was right. 

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It was Leclerc-Sainz at Silverstone. Crazy that teams don’t realize track position on old tires is meaningless, especially in the new regs. I mean I get it from Ferrari, but it was surprising to see with Mercedes. 
 

Red Bull are miles ahead of the field when it comes to strategy. They almost always seem to make the right call, or at least a defensible one. 

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Posted

Ham had good strategy until the VSC hit, tho would have finished behind Max b/c Max would have been out on fresh rubber just a couple seconds back. Then weird calls all the way from there boned him. Could have been 2nd instead of 4th.

Shocked no one got on the radio to tell him not to tow Max down to the line. Also shocked no one told Checo to stop moving to the filthy side defending into Tarzan.

Posted

Yeah some questionable stuff all over.

But I don't see any way to call it Hamilton getting screwed by the team. Let's not forget that Russell was 24 points and is now 30 points ahead of Hamilton in the driver standings. Say what you want about Hamilton obviously being the #1 driver, Russell is ahead of him in the standings and is obviously also a very competitive guy or he wouldn't be in that seat. He realized he was basically being asked to finish 3rd at best and possibly get caught by others after trying to defend and hold Verstappen up and could have dropped off the podium and down to 5th depending on tire deg on those old mediums. Russell probably sees 3rd in the season standings (or even 2nd if Ferrari totally fucks up a couple of more times) as a possibility. Why would he play sacrificial lamb for Hamilton in that situation?

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Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 8:11 PM, Huckleberry said:
Yeah some questionable stuff all over.
But I don't see any way to call it Hamilton getting screwed by the team. Let's not forget that Russell was 24 points and is now 30 points ahead of Hamilton in the driver standings. Say what you want about Hamilton obviously being the #1 driver, Russell is ahead of him in the standings and is obviously also a very competitive guy or he wouldn't be in that seat. He realized he was basically being asked to finish 3rd at best and possibly get caught by others after trying to defend and hold Verstappen up and could have dropped off the podium and down to 5th depending on tire deg on those old mediums. Russell probably sees 3rd in the season standings (or even 2nd if Ferrari totally fucks up a couple of more times) as a possibility. Why would he play sacrificial lamb for Hamilton in that situation?
Should have pitted both cars and gotten 2nd and 3rd.
Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 8:14 PM, elfenix said:

Should have pitted both cars and gotten 2nd and 3rd.

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I can see that angle, but I was figuring that Hamilton and his team agreed on the track position strategy and then Russell said hold up, no way. If that's the case then they screwed Hamilton by assuming Russell would play second fiddle like a Bottas or Pérez would happily do. 

I don't think Russell believes that in 2022 he's not Hamilton's equal. We can argue about it being true or not, I just sense that's how he feels and it's how he should feel to be honest. 

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Posted (edited)

In his defense he is faster than Hamilton most weeks.  Toto should have been talking to both teams though and let them know what each team was doing and not let Hamilton find out about it when Russell pitted.

Edited by kevwun
Posted (edited)

Hamilton also has to realize it’s not 2021 and he doesn’t have the car to stay ahead of a Red Bull with fresh tires.  Max had already passed Russell fairly easily and there was 11 or 12 laps left when it went green. He very likely had plenty of time to pass  both without much trouble.

Edited by kevwun
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Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 7:48 PM, Burt Macklin said:

It was Leclerc-Sainz at Silverstone. Crazy that teams don’t realize track position on old tires is meaningless, especially in the new regs. I mean I get it from Ferrari, but it was surprising to see with Mercedes. 
 

Red Bull are miles ahead of the field when it comes to strategy. They almost always seem to make the right call, or at least a defensible one. 

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Yep, and I was just telling my 18 yo how they are more willing than most to pit from a good position when they feel the need tires, even from the lead when the other guy stays out and passes them in the process. Seems to work well for them almost all of the time, too. 

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Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 8:12 PM, elfenix said:
  On 9/4/2022 at 2:14 PM, Buzzrock said:
Whats the speed limit during a VSC?
Noooo Terry…
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60% (iirc) of your own pace. So you can actually pull away during a VSC.

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The VSC was a good idea in theory but it just doesn't work well in practice.  I liked the idea they mentioned about making it specific to parts of the track, but again that's something that's just too complicated to actually work in practice.  I think it would only end up being worse, and more unfair.

 

Either put the real safety car out there, or do not.  There is no try.

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Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 11:32 PM, wood said:

Yep, and I was just telling my 18 yo how they are more willing than most to pit from a good position when they feel the need tires, even from the lead when the other guy stays out and passes them in the process. Seems to work well for them almost all of the time, too. 

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I think it's pretty apparent this year that this is what you have to do.

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Posted (edited)
  On 9/5/2022 at 12:01 AM, G650 said:

I think it's pretty apparent this year that this is what you have to do.

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Yep, it seems that way to me, too ... but it doesn't seem apparent to some teams/drivers. Track position with used-up tires just isn't what it used to be.

Edited by wood
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Posted (edited)
  On 9/4/2022 at 11:42 PM, utee94 said:

The VSC was a good idea in theory but it just doesn't work well in practice.  I liked the idea they mentioned about making it specific to parts of the track, but again that's something that's just too complicated to actually work in practice.  I think it would only end up being worse, and more unfair.

 

Either put the real safety car out there, or do not.  There is no try.

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sportscar racing does slow zones all the time.  basically pit speed the whole way through the zone and continue on.  still isn't quite fair because if it ends just after you've cleared the zone the car a bit further back down the track doesn't go through as much slow zone as you did. or one car may go through it 4 times and another 3. 

seemed like it took a couple laps for the safety car to start to gather the field today.  not sure if there was a delay, whether it was the short track, or maybe i was just imagining things. 

Edited by elfenix
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Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 7:40 PM, kevwun said:

I knew Max was going to pass him because he had newer tires and his car was faster, but I figured it would take a couple laps at least.

 

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Ham just can't deal with the reality that someone other than him is on the track, because, you know, he is the GOAT.

Posted
  On 9/5/2022 at 2:27 AM, RPM said:

Ham just can't deal with the reality that someone other than him is on the track, because, you know, he is the GOAT.

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You have an amazing hatred of Lewis. It's awkward really.

He, once again, owned it afterwards. Last week he owned up to his fuck up and this week he apologized to his team for calling them out. I'm not saying he's done a Vettel but he's on the path.

And I really could give two shit about Lewis but credit is due where it's earned.

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Posted
  On 9/5/2022 at 2:27 AM, RPM said:
Ham just can't deal with the reality that someone other than him is on the track, because, you know, he is the GOAT.
Come on, man. That's absurd. Watch his post race interview.
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Posted
  On 9/4/2022 at 8:06 PM, elfenix said:

Ham had good strategy until the VSC hit, tho would have finished behind Max b/c Max would have been out on fresh rubber just a couple seconds back. Then weird calls all the way from there boned him. Could have been 2nd instead of 4th.

Shocked no one got on the radio to tell him not to tow Max down to the line. Also shocked no one told Checo to stop moving to the filthy side defending into Tarzan.
 

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On the restart? Yeah, Lewis went way too early & made it much easier for Max.

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