Formula 1 2022

[wood 11770]

1 minute ago, NoName said:

what's the selling point for F1TV at this point?

I guess just timing and onboard cameras & radio of every driver. Apparently they've finally worked out most of the streaming snafus. How many years did that take?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, NoName said:

what's the selling point for F1TV at this point?

What do you mean at this point? Like this point in the season? I think you can subscribe on a monthly basis.

If you mean selling points in general, I've found it's the easiest way to have all sessions on demand. 

[NoName 17180]

9 minutes ago, wood said:

I guess just timing and onboard cameras & radio of every driver. Apparently they've finally worked out most of the streaming snafus. How many years did that take?

makes sense. i'm pretty happy with the TV feed but if i get much more into it i am interested in that. can you watch on demand?

7 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

What do you mean at this point? Like this point in the season? I think you can subscribe on a monthly basis.

If you mean selling points in general, I've found it's the easiest way to have all sessions on demand. 

just in general, sorry!

i have great luck watching with YTTV but that's me. not everyone loves it.

[wood 11770]

7 minutes ago, NoName said:

makes sense. i'm pretty happy with the TV feed but if i get much more into it i am interested in that. can you watch on demand?

Oh, that's another thing. IIRC you have all of the current year's sessions on demand and many whole seasons' races from the past. 

I toyed with the idea of getting it this year after refusing to do it for so long because they couldn't get their shit together, but I didn't because the TV coverage is pretty good and I can see everything on demand either on TV or any device using YTTV. I'm also not sure I want to dive into the hassle and potential distraction of watching multiple monitors. Same reason I have a hard time watching Texas games at bars. So many ditractions making me miss action.

Edited October 10, 2022 by wood

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, NoName said:

makes sense. i'm pretty happy with the TV feed but if i get much more into it i am interested in that. can you watch on demand?

just in general, sorry!

i have great luck watching with YTTV but that's me. not everyone loves it.

Yeah, YTTV may do everything you want. I just don't have any cable or cable streaming service, so F1Tv is how I watch. I think the price came out to $3-4 per race weekend.

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

I use both ESPN and F1TV. Sometimes I'm ready to watch the race right after it has aired and it takes ESPN some time to get the on demand broadcast up and F1TV is there to pick up the pieces. That plus radios, on boards, and classic races makes F1TV a worthwhile investment for me. 

[utee94 16091]

You can certainly follow the race better on TV but that's true of almost every sport.

Once per season I'm really happy to watch the race live, and I'll continue to do so as long as they keep hosting a Grand Prix in my backyard.

 

 

[52-80 19377]

5 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Well would you look at that.
 

 

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-completes-review-under-2021-fia-formula-1-financial-regulations

 

Horner said: "We stand 100% behind the submission that we are below the cap."

He said comments by his rivals were "unacceptable" and "hugely defamatory", and he threatened to take further action in response.

So perhaps when these accusations are made, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and you know we take umbrage and extremely seriously the remarks that have been made."

He added: "Unless there is a clear withdrawal of these comments, we will be taking it incredibly seriously and looking at what the options are."

******

No biggie.  The team that broke the cap for that year was the same one that pipped the title on the literal last lap of the season under race directions that were later determined to be erroneous. 

I'm sure the FIA will apply the rules that they themselves established:

Quote

Sanctions for a minor breach can include a deduction of points for the championship in which the breach took place, a suspension from a limited number of events, limitations on research and development and a reduction of the cost cap for the team in question.

 

[Goofyboy 3438]

So Red Bull and Aston both broke the rules?

[wood 11770]

22 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Horner said: "We stand 100% behind the submission that we are below the cap."

He said comments by his rivals were "unacceptable" and "hugely defamatory", and he threatened to take further action in response.

So perhaps when these accusations are made, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and you know we take umbrage and extremely seriously the remarks that have been made."

He added: "Unless there is a clear withdrawal of these comments, we will be taking it incredibly seriously and looking at what the options are."

******

No biggie.  The team that broke the cap for that year was the same one that pipped the title on the literal last lap of the season under race directions that were later determined to be erroneous. 

I'm sure the FIA will apply the rules that they themselves established:

 

Since they're saying it was a procedural error and a minor breach, my guess is it'll be something like a budget reduction and wind tunnel/CFD reductions. But who knows?

McLaren had an illegal car all season a few years ago with stolen Ferrari IP throughout. They were excluded from the constructor's championship iirc, but their drivers kept all of their points. I'd be surprised if the drivers lose any points, but WCC points lost wouldn't surprise me ... but like I said, who knows?

Edited October 10, 2022 by wood

[wood 11770]

16 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

So Red Bull and Aston both broke the rules?

Procedural error for AM. Procedural error + minor budget breach for RBR.

[Goofyboy 3438]

RB by a couple million. They need to be hammered or there is no point in a cost cap.

[Chewbacca 7830]

RB by a couple million. They need to be hammered or there is no point in a cost cap.

Yep. This is how it starts. Don't drop the hammer and it's no longer a cost cap.

[PittsburghTiger 6351]

 

Eyes on the prize

[52-80 19377]

guess who said this in the Spring

“I think all the major teams are going to breach that $140m cap this year,” he said. “But what is the penalty for a minor breach?

“What we don't want to do is end up is playing a game of chicken as to say, do you go for 4.9% over, do we go for 4.7%? And that could be one upgrade: that could be the differentiating factor of this world championship.

Edited October 11, 2022 by 52-80

[Goofyboy 3438]

I’m guessing Toto because that’s some shit Merc would do. They would run the numbers and push the issue to the edge. I say that as a Merc fan.

[Anton Chigurh 3335]

Sounds like a Spendy Spice quote to me.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

RB by a couple million. They need to be hammered or there is no point in a cost cap.

 

13 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

13 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

RB by a couple million. They need to be hammered or there is no point in a cost cap.

Yep. This is how it starts. Don't drop the hammer and it's no longer a cost cap.

Pushing the boundaries of what's legal in F1?

[utee94 16091]

Yeah they all do it.  It's been the name of the game since the very beginning of the sport.

But that doesn't mean teams that get caught shouldn't be punished.  The key has always been-- don't get caught.

[wood 11770]

It was Horner, and Binotto said pretty much the same and also said he didn't think any of the big teams would even be able to stay under the cap. Said there was "no chance", and wanted the cap raised this summer. I'd be shocked if, at a minimum, Ferrari, Merc, and RBR  didn't make minor breaches in truth but found clever ways to make it work on paper. Red Bull seems very confident they've covered theirs as well, or they wouldn't be talking about an appeal. We'll see though. It'll be fun to watch it all play out.

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yeah they all do it.  It's been the name of the game since the very beginning of the sport.

But that doesn't mean teams that get caught shouldn't be punished.  The key has always been-- don't get caught.

*does not apply to Ferrari, which can just stop using that engine that dumped extra fuel at certain moments to bypass the sensor. Just don't do that any more and you're ok.

[utee94 16091]

17 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

*does not apply to Ferrari, which can just stop using that engine that dumped extra fuel at certain moments to bypass the sensor. Just don't do that any more and you're ok.

They punished themselves by choosing their current strategy team.  That's way worse than whatever F1 governance might do to them.

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

Oh, are we talking Ferrari International Assistance? 

[RiverwalkMiner 257]

22 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I feel like it was that way last year too. A Saturday ticket is still $100+ after fees. Sunday is $300+.

Then you add in parking and the hassle of COTA. 

Just posted because of the conversation a few weeks back. If you've never seen the cars, then Friday is a good way to do it without much cost or hassle. If you really want to watch the race, then get F1Tv.

I picked up two tickets on Row 3 in the main grandstand on  Friday for under $100 including StubHub fees.  Hell, the shuttle from Waterloo Park is going to be more expensive. 

[utee94 16091]

They're here...

 

[Burt Macklin 19230]

Based on how their on track rulings go, I expect the FIA to give RBR some meaningless penalties like some wind tunnel time/CFD restriction and then strip the next team who goes over by a million of all constructor and driver points for the year. 

[Goofyboy 3438]

If that’s all that happens, cost cap is a joke

[deft 7069]

They punished themselves by choosing their current strategy team.  That's way worse than whatever F1 governance might do to them.

[NoName 17180]

is doubling it even enough? wasn't there bathroom and concession issues too?

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

Which year did the shuttles not even show up for one of the days? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Which year did the shuttles not even show up for one of the days? 

Believe that was last year.

[Guest]

Monaco, Singapore, Montreal...

Elroy, TX. "The racetrack out by the airport"

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

Those are all street circuits, though. I understand your point, in the middle of nowhere is not so glamorous and the views aren't breathtaking, but it's the only purpose-built track in North America and a pretty great one at that. You can't exactly plop one of those in a city center. 

[Burt Macklin 19230]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

is doubling it even enough? wasn't there bathroom and concession issues too?

I’m not surprised they’re saying this, but even if true, it will still be a huge shit show. Last year they ran out of water about halfway through the race on Sunday and there were no free water stations to be found even though they claimed they had them. 
 

Shuttle and Uber is impossible out there. I’ve parked in one of the neighborhoods about a mile away and just walked. It’s about 1-2 hours quicker than just about any other option, unless you want to pay stupid amounts of money for the premium parking spots. 

[wood 11770]

3 hours ago, NoName said:

is doubling it even enough? wasn't there bathroom and concession issues too?

I dunno how short they were last year, but by all accounts they were woefully short of buses. And remember this is Epstein talking. "Doubling" doesn't necessarily mean doubling. When it comes to numbers, he will literally say anything when it comes to something nobody on the outside can verify. See also: attendance numbers. 

Re: the other logistical issues, last year F1 at COTA was a shitshow of epic proportions ... an utter and complete logistical failure. F1 weekend was an absolute mess, with thousands of people on Sunday having to walk 3+ miles in the weeds, in the dark, along 812 to their "Park & Ride" lot when COTA failed to provide them shuttles; unstocked, filthy restrooms & portapotties; no water; crowds storming gates and knocking over fences in frustration over slow admission lines; and people having to get out of their cars and direct traffic leaving multiple lots - because COTA had zero traffic control personnel stationed there, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. And don't fall for the BS 'personnel shortage' excuses, either. He just doesn't want to pay. They turned away 600 temps who showed up as requested at 4am on the Friday morning of F1 last year, & told them they wouldn't be needed for the weekend. Then they told the remaining workers they'd be working 16 hour shifts all three days, which of course led to tons of no-shows on Saturday and Sunday. COTA was woefully understaffed, especially on Saturday and Sunday. I don't expect it to be any better this year. The Rolling Stones concert last year was even worse, with some people sitting for 1 to 3 hours in their cars waiting to get to their lot. That was after they turned onto COTA Blvd. Thousands of them missed all or part of the Stones performance.

Re: the buses not showing up, yeah even aside from the 'Park & Ride' shuttles, there were also massive problems with the rest of their shuttle plan, which is why the Park & Ride shuttles got diverted away from the Park & Ride customers (who were somehow deemed less important. Probably came down to catering to the 1%, as Bobby always does.

 

40 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m not surprised they’re saying this, but even if true, it will still be a huge shit show. Last year they ran out of water about halfway through the race on Sunday and there were no free water stations to be found even though they claimed they had them. 
 

Shuttle and Uber is impossible out there. I’ve parked in one of the neighborhoods about a mile away and just walked. It’s about 1-2 hours quicker than just about any other option, unless you want to pay stupid amounts of money for the premium parking spots. 

Yep. They say the same the same kinds of things every single year leading up to the race, like clockwork. "New, improved transportation plan. Roads upgraded. Everything that was bad last year is fixed!" The reality is that they've added one lane only, on Elroy Road, not on FM 812, and it stops at COTA Blvd.  Pretty much every year we also hear "Biggest crowd ever expected". That helps him set up the new attendance lie that's based on the last attendance lie that based on the one before that, and so on.

Re: Rideshares and the private Parking lots, remember, the new Rideshare dropoff/pickup is at DVHS, 3 miles away, so you have to shuttle to aand from the track from there. I've had great luck with Danny & Carmen's lot on Elroy Road across from the Fire Station. That's where I'll be parking again this year. It's adjacent to Lot T. Just walk across Lot T, and enter the T1 gate. Easy peasy.

Edited October 12, 2022 by wood

[Mittens 8778]

Pretty cool - using flax instead of carbon fiber

 

[Burt Macklin 19230]

13 minutes ago, wood said:

I dunno how short they were last year, but by all accounts they were woefully short of buses. And remember this is Epstein talking. "Doubling" doesn't necessarily mean doubling. When it comes to numbers, he will literally say anything when it comes to something nobody on the outside can verify. See also: attendance numbers. 

Re: the other logistical issues, last year F1 at COTA was a shitshow of epic proportions ... an utter and complete logistical failure. F1 weekend was an absolute mess, with thousands of people on Sunday having to walk 3+ miles in the weeds, in the dark, along 812 to their "Park & Ride" lot when COTA failed to provide them shuttles; unstocked, filthy restrooms & portapotties; no water; crowds storming gates and knocking over fences in frustration over slow admission lines; and people having to get out of their cars and direct traffic leaving multiple lots - because COTA had zero traffic control personnel stationed there, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. And don't fall for the BS 'personnel shortage' excuses, either. He just doesn't want to pay. They turned away 600 temps who showed up as requested at 4am on the Friday morning of F1 last year, & told them they wouldn't be needed for the weekend. Then they told the remaining workers they'd be working 16 hour shifts all three days, which of course led to tons of no-shows on Saturday and Sunday. COTA was woefully understaffed, especially on Saturday and Sunday. I don't expect it to be any better this year. The Rolling Stones concert last year was even worse, with some people sitting for 1 to 3 hours in their cars waiting to get to their lot. That was after they turned onto COTA Blvd. Thousands of them missed all or part of the Stones performance.

Re: the buses not showing up, yeah even aside from the 'Park & Ride' shuttles, there were also massive problems with the rest of their shuttle plan, which is why the Park & Ride shuttles got diverted away from the Park & Ride customers (who were somehow deemed less important. Probably came down to catering to the 1%, as Bobby always does.

 

Yep. They say the same the same kinds of things every single year leading up to the race, like clockwork. "New, improved transportation plan. Roads upgraded. Everything that was bad last year is fixed!" The reality is that they've added one lane only, on Elroy Road, not on FM 812, and it stops at COTA Blvd.  Pretty much every year we also hear "Biggest crowd ever expected". That helps him set up the new attendance lie that's based on the last attendance lie that based on the one before that, and so on.

Re: Rideshares and the private Parking lots, remember, the new Rideshare dropoff/pickup is at DVHS, 3 miles away, so you have to shuttle to aand from the track from there. I've had great luck with Danny & Carmen's lot on Elroy Road across from the Fire Station. That's where I'll be parking again this year. It's adjacent to Lot T. Just walk across Lot T, and enter the T1 gate. Easy peasy.

I will say that even with all those issues, me and some friends got GA and went all three days and had a blast. The water issue on Sunday sucked, but otherwise it was a great time even though it was very packed and there were very long lines for food.

Parking and walking about a mile to the track was a game changer and made the whole thing way better. It took about 20 minutes each way, but once you get to your car, you can get out of there with almost no traffic and save 1-2 hours each way. 

[Chewbacca 7830]

Those are all street circuits, though. I understand your point, in the middle of nowhere is not so glamorous and the views aren't breathtaking, but it's the only purpose-built track in North America and a pretty great one at that. You can't exactly plop one of those in a city center. 

Montreal is in North America.

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

Montreal is in North America.

Montreal is a street circuit.

[wood 11770]

Oh and re: the buses, the number of buses they actually had wasn't even the whole problem. Bus drivers have time limitations just like airline pilots do. Lots of them had to stop and take their buses back to the shed in the middle of COTA shuttling ops becaue they were scheduled to work a normal work week after the race. There are loads of stories about people seeing empty buses that wouldn't pick anyone up. More poor planning. 

[PittsburghTiger 6351]

It's funny how some things pop up on the YouTube.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi32m4wB-4g

This last one was not allowed to be imbedded. It's Michael Schumacher and Nico racing around the Nordscheilfe with AMG products and F1 car. Pretty cool.

Edited October 12, 2022 by PittsburghTiger

[Chewbacca 7830]

31 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Montreal is a street circuit.

It's a purpose built track on an island.  How does Montreal qualify as a street circuit?

[utee94 16091]

46 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I will say that even with all those issues, me and some friends got GA and went all three days and had a blast. The water issue on Sunday sucked, but otherwise it was a great time even though it was very packed and there were very long lines for food.

Parking and walking about a mile to the track was a game changer and made the whole thing way better. It took about 20 minutes each way, but once you get to your car, you can get out of there with almost no traffic and save 1-2 hours each way. 

I have a great time every year.  Camping the whole weekend makes it all super-easy, and isn't much more expensive than paying for parking every day.

I will say that Sunday last year was brutal.  With those long lines for food and beverages, if I hadn't snuck in a bunch of extra vodka, I might have lost my buzz.

 

32 minutes ago, wood said:

Oh and re: the buses, the number of buses they actually had wasn't even the whole problem. Bus drivers have time limitations just like airline pilots do. Lots of them had to stop and take their buses back to the shed in the middle of COTA shuttling ops becaue they were scheduled to work a normal work week after the race. There are loads of stories about people seeing empty buses that wouldn't pick anyone up. More poor planning. 

Yeah last year, I think was more of the big issue.  But it's always something.  Some years not enough buses, some years poor planning on when drivers can actually be available.  Just not really much attention paid to detail, because Bobby really just doesn't care.

 

 

[wood 11770]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

It's a purpose built track on an island.  How does Montreal qualify as a street circuit?

It's technically considered a street circuit because it's open to the public for running, cycling etc the rest of the year. IIRC a little bit of vehicle access in some parts as well. But from what I've always heard, it was built in the late 70s to become the new Canadian GP venue. 

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

22 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

It's a purpose built track on an island.  How does Montreal qualify as a street circuit?

It's a park with roads that they hold a race on, on a man-made island that was not made for Formula 1. I don't know anyone that's ever called it purpose-built for racing. Would you put Circuit Gilles Villenueve in the same category of track as Circuit of the Americas or Yas Marina Circuit or Silverstone? Or would you put it in the same category as Melbourne and Monaco and Singapore? 

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

Anyway, that's all beside my point. Even if you consider it in the same category as COTA, it's still in the middle of a river. It's not like it's in downtown Montreal. I'm just saying it might not be in the most prestigious locale for a track, but COTA is a fine circuit that we should appreciate more, management's myriad logistical problems notwithstanding. 

[Chewbacca 7830]

5 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

It's a park with roads that they hold a race on, on a man-made island that was not made for Formula 1. I don't know anyone that's ever called it purpose-built for racing. Would you put Circuit Gilles Villenueve in the same category of track as Circuit of the Americas or Yas Marina Circuit or Silverstone? Or would you put it in the same category as Melbourne and Monaco and Singapore? 

I'd lump it with COTA and Silverstone.  It's a track on an island that was certainly purpose built for racing.  Not necessarily F1 racing, but it's not a race around the city streets of Monaco or Baku or Singapore or Miami.  I think calling Montreal a street circuit is being disingenuous.  Montreal shares a lot more in common with COTA than Monaco, IMO

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

Fair enough. No matter how you slice it, CGV gives you the best of both words with world class event planning and a world class race presentation. 

[wood 11770]

49 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Anyway, that's all beside my point. Even if you consider it in the same category as COTA, it's still in the middle of a river. It's not like it's in downtown Montreal. I'm just saying it might not be in the most prestigious locale for a track, but COTA is a fine circuit that we should appreciate more, management's myriad logistical problems notwithstanding. 

COTA's in the middle of a river too though. It's just a 'sometimes river' & not a constant one fed by glaciers.

[G650 14450]

51 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Anyway, that's all beside my point. Even if you consider it in the same category as COTA, it's still in the middle of a river. It's not like it's in downtown Montreal. I'm just saying it might not be in the most prestigious locale for a track, but COTA is a fine circuit that we should appreciate more, management's myriad logistical problems notwithstanding.