Formula 1 2022

wood · March 23, 2022

4 hours ago, kevwun said:

No point in using it until you need it. They can always wait and turn it to God mode like Mercedes did towards the end of last season.

Absolutely. You only need to go fast enough to win the race. If you have that luxury of a power surplus relative to the others, then you only use hwat you need, save the car, and increase reliability, just like Merc has been doing most of the time for the last 8 seasons.

wood · March 23, 2022

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I have no ill will toward Ferrari, but it has crossed my mind how everyone is talking about how they've nailed this change, ran a great race, had a faster car/better engine than everyone... but the 2019 scandal doesn't come up at all.

Once the FIA told them they couldn't do whatever the hell they were doing a few years ago and swept it under the rug, the team stunk... until now. Yet no one really brings that up.

Instead it seems like it's this Ferrari redemption "We're back!" story. Instead of a "we were doing something that was a grey area and sucked when we couldn't do it anymore" story.

I hope for the sport's sake there ain't nothing fishy going on.

I was thinking about that too, but then way last year there were lots of positive rumors coming from Maranello on the PU front, and Binotto was spending extra time there working on it too. Doesn't mean they aren't cheating though, I guess.

4 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

If true that is a damned nice advantage to have.

Yeah a significant power advantage is just massive. It just allows you to do so many things the others can't dore: reliability, aero, etc. Merc's been doing it for a while, as did others before.

1 hour ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Something fishy going on with Ferrari International Assistance? With Jean Todt in the highest office? No. I refuse to believe it.

~~Vince Young~~ Jean Todt ain't walking through that door.

Edited March 23, 2022 by wood

ConferenceRoom · March 23, 2022

He was already there. I was just joking anyway.

wood · March 23, 2022

Toto gonna take a chainsaw to the W13.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/78242/mercedes-to-take-a-chainsaw-to-w13-for-saudi-arabia/ 

NoName · March 23, 2022

14 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I hope for the sport's sake there ain't nothing fishy going on.

Dude, it's Formula 1...there is ALWAYS something fishy going on

NoName · March 23, 2022

10 hours ago, wood said:

Toto gonna take a chainsaw to the W13.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/78242/mercedes-to-take-a-chainsaw-to-w13-for-saudi-arabia/ 

woah, i didn't realize this. no wonder their clients are pissed

Quote

Throughout the weekend, Mercedes struggled for straight-line pace in Bahrain, with neither driver inside the top 14 through the speed trap in qualifying.

March 23, 2022

10 hours ago, wood said:

Toto gonna take a chainsaw to the W13.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/78242/mercedes-to-take-a-chainsaw-to-w13-for-saudi-arabia/ 

F1 Twitter: Wolff Threatens to Use a Chainsaw in Order to Kill Red Bull During a Race

March 23, 2022

So sounds like Vegas will be a night race. I guess that makes sense, but honestly not a big fan of moving toward more night races. Now it is:

Bahrain
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Abu Dhabi
Qatar
Las Vegas

That's creeping up on 1/3 of the calendar.

G650 · March 23, 2022

11 hours ago, wood said:

Toto gonna take a chainsaw to the W13.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/78242/mercedes-to-take-a-chainsaw-to-w13-for-saudi-arabia/ 

I'd pay good money to watch that.

ConferenceRoom · March 23, 2022

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

So sounds like Vegas will be a night race. I guess that makes sense, but honestly not a big fan of moving toward more night races. Now it is:

Bahrain
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Abu Dhabi
Qatar
Las Vegas

That's creeping up on 1/3 of the calendar.

We can start by axing Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Frankly I'm okay with getting rid of all of those except Singapore.

NoName · March 23, 2022

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

So sounds like Vegas will be a night race. I guess that makes sense, but honestly not a big fan of moving toward more night races. Now it is:

Bahrain
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Abu Dhabi
Qatar
Las Vegas

That's creeping up on 1/3 of the calendar.

taking what is a special occurrence and making it "normal" very rarely works out.

that said, it makes some level of sense when you are basically in a desert where it is a million degrees and there isn't much to look at.

.................................................then again you also could just not race in the desert when there are so many other good options out there?

March 23, 2022

5 minutes ago, NoName said:

taking what is a special occurrence and making it "normal" very rarely works out.

This is exactly my concern.

March 23, 2022

17 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

We can start by axing Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Frankly I'm okay with getting rid of all of those except Singapore.

I think the Abu Dhabi stuff overshadowed it at the end of last year, but the second to last race in Saudi Arabia was complete garbage and the consensus is that the track -- while fast and narrow -- was shit for racing.

Can't wait to see what it's like with a bunch of cars where drivers don't have a great feeling yet. We saw Hamilton fishtailing on the new hard tires last race coming out of the pits. Now imagine that on the Saudi track.

ConferenceRoom · March 23, 2022

Isn’t the Saudi track at a different location this season? Or is that Qatar? I’m having a hard time keeping them straight.

wood · March 23, 2022

6 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I think the Abu Dhabi stuff overshadowed it at the end of last year, but the second to last race in Saudi Arabia was complete garbage and the consensus is that the track -- while fast and narrow -- was shit for racing.

Can't wait to see what it's like with a bunch of cars where drivers don't have a great feeling yet. We saw Hamilton fishtailing on the new hard tires last race coming out of the pits. Now imagine that on the Saudi track.

Yep. And in cars that can actually follow. Tracks have often gotten the blame for a lack of passing when it was really mostly on the cars.

March 23, 2022

9 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep. And in cars that can actually follow. Tracks have often gotten the blame for a lack of passing when it was really mostly on the cars.

Oh, I'm completely blaming the Saudi track. It's exciting to see guys flying through blind corners with walls right beside, but it makes for bad racing. I still think it's going to be a mess.

March 23, 2022

11 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Isn’t the Saudi track at a different location this season? Or is that Qatar? I’m having a hard time keeping them straight.

I do too. Saudi Arabia was a new track for last season. It's a "street" circuit that's pretty narrow with lots of fast corners. Cool from a driver cam, but seemingly not many opportunities to pass. It was the second-to-last race last year and now it's the second race.

Qatar isn't on the calendar this year, but is set to return in 2023.

Burt Macklin · March 23, 2022

These cars are fucking boats at 800kg and the footprint of a large SUV. Adding a bunch of street tracks where you can’t pass is beyond dumb, but Liberty is just selling races to the highest bidder at this point and most will be street tracks unfortunately.

On top of that, there’s growing rumors that Spa will lose its spot because they don’t have the finances to keep up with the increasing race fees. So yeah, Liberty’s gonna really kill the racing if they keep dropping good, legacy tracks in favor of shitty street tracks, but I doubt they’ll care because their revenues are exploding. By the time F1 experiences the fallout from the shitty track selection they’ll likely have sold it.

wood · March 23, 2022

23 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

These cars are fucking boats at 800kg and the footprint of a large SUV. Adding a bunch of street tracks where you can’t pass is beyond dumb, but Liberty is just selling races to the highest bidder at this point and most will be street tracks unfortunately.

On top of that, there’s growing rumors that Spa will lose its spot because they don’t have the finances to keep up with the increasing race fees. So yeah, Liberty’s gonna really kill the racing if they keep dropping good, legacy tracks in favor of shitty street tracks, but I doubt they’ll care because their revenues are exploding. By the time F1 experiences the fallout from the shitty track selection they’ll likely have sold it.

Yep. This is why I was in the 'be careful what you wish for' camp when people said 'anyone would be better than Bernie'. It's just not true. It can always be worse. Bernie is a greedy bastard, but he cared about F1.

wood · March 23, 2022

38 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Oh, I'm completely blaming the Saudi track. It's exciting to see guys flying through blind corners with walls right beside, but it makes for bad racing. I still think it's going to be a mess.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just reserving judgement until I see cars race there that can actually follow each other closely.

G650 · March 23, 2022

38 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

On top of that, there’s growing rumors that Spa will lose its spot because they don’t have the finances to keep up with the increasing race fees.

I saw that earlier. I will knife somebody

utee94 · March 23, 2022

There are always rumors of legacy races dropping out. Silverstone is said to be on the chopping block basically every year, and Monza has been in recent years as well.

In the case of Monza, Silverstone, Spa, or Monaco-- I'll believe it when I see it. And I'm not ever going to see it.

wood · March 23, 2022

Helmut Marko told F1-Insider.com: "To put it simply. A vacuum in the fuel supply system caused the engine to be unable to obtain any more fuel. I think we can solve the problem already in Saudi Arabia this weekend."

March 23, 2022

1 minute ago, wood said:

Helmut Marko told F1-Insider.com: "To put it simply. A vacuum in the fuel supply system caused the engine to be unable to obtain any more fuel. I think we can solve the problem already in Saudi Arabia this weekend."

Complete out of the blue spitballing, but what if the vacuum was an issue the whole race and reduced RB's power throughout?

Betty Blackwell · March 23, 2022

6 hours ago, NoName said:

woah, i didn't realize this. no wonder their clients are pissed

McLaren has no downforce, temps out of control and can't brake.
Aston Martin decided to abandon their aero package before the first race.
Williams is still Williams.

But the engine, that's the problem. 😂

Burt Macklin · March 23, 2022

I’m not smart enough to know any of this myself, but from what I read, that’s called vapor lock and happens when the fuel gets so hot it boils and turns from liquid to gas causing the fuel pumps to suck in gas instead of liquid, which creates the vacuum Marko referenced and the car loses power.

Supposedly the change to E10 means the fuel now has a lower boiling point, so this is a side defect of the new fuel regulations, which caught RB out. The safety car may have also contributed to the increased engine heat, which is why both cars gave out shortly after the safety car.

wood · March 23, 2022

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Complete out of the blue spitballing, but what if the vacuum was an issue the whole race and reduced RB's power throughout?

You never know ...

wood · March 23, 2022

59 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m not smart enough to know any of this myself, but from what I read, that’s called vapor lock and happens when the fuel gets so hot it boils and turns from liquid to gas causing the fuel pumps to suck in gas instead of liquid, which creates the vacuum Marko referenced and the car loses power.

Supposedly the change to E10 means the fuel now has a lower boiling point, so this is a side defect of the new fuel regulations, which caught RB out. The safety car may have also contributed to the increased engine heat, which is why both cars gave out shortly after the safety car.

Right. This is what Scarbs and Hughes alluded to, & can cause vapor lock or cavitation in the pump. It could also potentially be a problem for others as well since the fuel delivery system is spec & everyone has to run the same amount of ethanol in their fuel, so it'll be something interesting to keep an eye on. A lot of people think the switch to E10 is more important than the new aero rules. I think they may be right.

Edited March 23, 2022 by wood

Anton Chigurh · March 23, 2022

I’m not smart enough to know any of this myself, but from what I read, that’s called vapor lock and happens when the fuel gets so hot it boils and turns from liquid to gas causing the fuel pumps to suck in gas instead of liquid, which creates the vacuum Marko referenced and the car loses power.

Supposedly the change to E10 means the fuel now has a lower boiling point, so this is a side defect of the new fuel regulations, which caught RB out. The safety car may have also contributed to the increased engine heat, which is why both cars gave out shortly after the safety car.

This is all correct. The vacuum comment seems to have come from a bit of a mis-translation or analogy from Marko.

Chewbacca · March 23, 2022

1 hour ago, Betty Blackwell said:

McLaren has no downforce, temps out of control and can't brake.
Aston Martin decided to abandon their aero package before the first race.
Williams is still Williams.

But the engine, that's the problem. 😂

Even Merc didn't have the straight line speed. Those other cars definitely have other issues, but the PU might be one of them. Gonna take McLaren forever to get their shit in one sack. That car is a mess.

Anton Chigurh · March 23, 2022

Even Merc didn't have the straight line speed. Those other cars definitely have other issues, but the PU might be one of them. Gonna take McLaren forever to get their shit in one sack. That car is a mess.

Merc was extremely draggy last race.

James Allison seems pretty confident here, tbh.

wood · March 23, 2022

Seeing some chatter about the Merc running hotter than expected with the smaller sidepods.

utee94 · March 23, 2022

My 1981 Dodge Omni (with a Volkswagen engine) experienced near-daily vapor lock during the summer months, leaving me stranded all over the place on the reg.

Betty Blackwell · March 23, 2022

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Even Merc didn't have the straight line speed. Those other cars definitely have other issues, but the PU might be one of them. Gonna take McLaren forever to get their shit in one sack. That car is a mess.

Merc’s quali speed trap was right at the same level as Ferrari.

Their package currently sucks (for Merc) — they’re running more wing than they’d like, haven’t got the floor figured out, their ride height is much higher than others, and the side pod solution wasn’t a magic bullet. The PU’s not the problem.

They’ll get that stuff figured out, and people will say they improved the PU. 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 23, 2022 by Betty Blackwell

Anton Chigurh · March 23, 2022

There was a photo that I now cannot find with start/finish line speed trap and Merc was actually pretty high there. They don’t have a lot TOP speed because of drag, but are right up there on other speed traps.

utee94 · March 23, 2022

Those weird non-sidepods look terrible. Like a really cheap boob job on a small-town stripper, that's starting to crumple and melt under their own weight.

It's possibly the worst-looking car in over three decades.

Edited March 23, 2022 by utee94

wood · March 23, 2022

The thing is, it seems Ferrari were running their new PU pretty conservatively, and they were in a high-DF configuration as well - and Merc was never a threat to them. IMHO the jury's still out & it's still too early to tell definitively, but from what I can tell, it seems the Ferrari has a good lead on everyone in terms of power.

wood · March 23, 2022

15 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Those weird non-sidepods look terrible. Like a really cheap boob job on a small-town stripper, that's starting to crumple and melt under their own weight.

It's possibly the worst-looking car in over three decades.

Looks like a pregnant guppy.

Updawg · March 24, 2022

The thing is, it seems Ferrari were running their new PU pretty conservatively, and they were in a high-DF configuration as well - and Merc was never a threat to them. IMHO the jury's still out & it's still too early to tell definitively, but from what I can tell, it seems the Ferrari has a good lead on everyone in terms of power.

I finally just caught up but this what I’m thinking. Mercedes will get close and close the gap. Red Bull is strong of course

Hopefully a good 3 way battle

Mclaren looks like shit.

Sorry I skipped a couple hundred post

Updawg · March 24, 2022

These cars are fucking boats at 800kg and the footprint of a large SUV. Adding a bunch of street tracks where you can’t pass is beyond dumb, but Liberty is just selling races to the highest bidder at this point and most will be street tracks unfortunately.

On top of that, there’s growing rumors that Spa will lose its spot because they don’t have the finances to keep up with the increasing race fees. So yeah, Liberty’s gonna really kill the racing if they keep dropping good, legacy tracks in favor of shitty street tracks, but I doubt they’ll care because their revenues are exploding. By the time F1 experiences the fallout from the shitty track selection they’ll likely have sold it.

Why kill my buzz

But probably true unfortunately

morehornsepower · March 24, 2022

12 hours ago, wood said:

Looks like a pregnant guppy.

reminds me of this actually:

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk#/media/File:F-117_Nighthawk_Front.jpg

Edited March 24, 2022 by morehornsepower

ConferenceRoom · March 24, 2022

Damn, hyperbole abound in here. The W13 isn't even the ugliest car of the last ten years. Dick nose Lotus anyone?

ConferenceRoom · March 24, 2022

Or the dick nose Caterham for that matter.

NoName · March 24, 2022

17 hours ago, Betty Blackwell said:

McLaren has no downforce, temps out of control and can't brake.
Aston Martin decided to abandon their aero package before the first race.
Williams is still Williams.

But the engine, that's the problem. 😂

...so to be clear, you are saying that the fact MB engines finished in the last SIX places for those who finished the race is all due to the clients and has nothing to do with the engines?

do they have other issues? sure. but to sit here and act like the engine has nothing to do with it is comical.

from earlier in the thread

1. Ferrari

2. Ferrari

3. Merc

4. Merc

5. Ferrari

6. Ferrari

7. Alpine

8. Honda

9. Alpine

10. Ferrari

11. Ferrari

12. Merc

13. Merc

14. Merc

15. Merc

16. Merc

17. Merc

-----

18. Honda DNF

19. Honda DNF

20. Honda DNF

Edited March 24, 2022 by NoName

March 24, 2022

37 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Damn, hyperbole abound in here. The W13 isn't even the ugliest car of the last ten years. Dick nose Lotus anyone?

From the front wheels back is fine with these cars, but that nose is a crime against humanity.

ConferenceRoom · March 24, 2022

3 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

From the front wheels back is fine with these cars, but that nose is a crime against humanity.

March 24, 2022

Must have been cold that day on track.

ConferenceRoom · March 24, 2022

Anton Chigurh · March 24, 2022

Toto wasn’t lying about the chainsaw.

kevwun · March 24, 2022

I watched part of the first practice last week and they had on someone who explained that too much downforce was the cause of the porpoising. Car gets pushed down on to the track and bounces off, only to get pushed back down by the downforce, rinse and repeat

Edited March 24, 2022 by kevwun

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