Formula 1 2022

[ChickenSandwich 9852]

IMO cars are too big and tracks to narrow to get rid of DRS at the moment. 
 

Id like them to switch to a system like Indy and every driver gets a certain amount of time with DRS open where ever they want it open on track 

[NoName 16397]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Also, with the new aero on the cars allowing them to race so closely, I think it's time to kill the DRS. 

close racing != passing though

doing away with DRS leads to fewer passes, which leads to less interesting races, which makes the technical job teams do WAY more important

at the Azerbaijan GP, Red Bull was 25km/h faster than FER on the long straight:

• FERRARI 321 km/h
• RBR 331 km/h
• MER 317 km/h
• ALPINE 329 km/h
• AT 328 km/h
• HAAS 318 km/h
• ALFA 316 km/h

that isn't going to make for interesting races or growth of the sport.

i agree that medium to long term, getting away from DRS is the right move. but right now? no thanks.

[kevwun 15882]

That's going to take a lot of on track testing to prove that they can pass without it.  Wind tunnels and modeling can only do so much as they found out with porpoising.  The cars are still a second slower than last year and no DRS will make that worse.

Edited August 1, 2022 by kevwun

[Burt Macklin 19050]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

As far as the race?  Blech.  For a while at least Ferrari kept it interesting by finding NEW and horrible ways to screw everything up, but this one was pretty standard and uninspiring. 

Also, with the new aero on the cars allowing them to race so closely, I think it's time to kill the DRS. 

 

31 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

We were talking about that the other day. I too think it is time to do away with it.

Y’all are out of your minds. Leclerc was over half a second faster on his second medium stint than Russell and it still took him about 7 laps to clear Russell on a tight move. He never would’ve gotten close to passing without DRS and then we’d be right back to Hungary being Monaco without walls, which is the whole thing we’re trying to move away from. 
 

Without DRS, a car would have to be at least a second per lap faster to pass at Hungary, which would just make the whole race a procession.

Cars can follow better, but they’re still massive so it limits the overtaking opportunities mainly to straights and that will still require DRS.

I think the best course of action would reducing the amount or length of DRS zones where it becomes too easy to pass, but getting rid of them entirely would be a horrible move .

[utee94 15862]

14 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think the best course of action would reducing the amount or length of DRS zones where it becomes too easy to pass, but getting rid of them entirely would be a horrible move .

It's way too easy to pass with DRS right now.   For the most part, DRS-enabled passes bore the shit out of me.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9852]

32 minutes ago, kevwun said:

That's going to take a lot of on track testing to prove that they can pass without it.  Wind tunnels and modeling can only do so much as they found out with porpoising.  The cars are still a second slower than last year and no DRS will make that worse.

So much this. They have a spending cap now, let them test their cars in the real world and regulate/invoice accordingly. 
 

This season proved a 60% wind tunnel is not a real substitute for on track testing. Ultimately wasting money on upgrades that don’t translate. 

[Burt Macklin 19050]

17 minutes ago, utee94 said:

It's way too easy to pass with DRS right now.   For the most part, DRS-enabled passes bore the shit out of me.

 

While I totally agree with that, there would be almost no passing without DRS. I think the answer is to reduce DRS zones, but these cars are too big and heavy to allow for much passing without any DRS. The dirty air has gotten much better, but we won’t be able to get rid of DRS until/if the cars get smaller and lighter. These cars are too wide and not nimble enough to allow for hardly any overtaking other than on the straights. 
 

Hungary is a good example of why we should reduce DRS, only allowing DRS on the main straight would’ve allowed for more/better fighting down to turn 4. Too often the overtake was done at turn 1 and then completely over because the overtaking car got DRS. If they don’t get DRS after turn 1 there would’ve been a lot more exciting racing into turn 4 and it would make the overtaking driver have to be more skillful because they’d need to accommodate for a good exit out of turn 1. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Burt Macklin

[utee94 15862]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

While I totally agree with that, there would be almost no passing without DRS. I think the answer is to reduce DRS zones, but these cars are too big and heavy to allow for much passing without any DRS. The dirty air has gotten much better, but we won’t be able to get rid of DRS until/if the cars get smaller and lighter. These cars are too wide and not nimble enough to allow for hardly any overtaking other than on the straights. 
 

Hungary is a good example of why we should reduce DRS, only allowing DRS on the main straight would’ve allowed for more/better fighting down to turn 4. Too often the overtake was done at turn 1 and then completely over because the overtaking car got DRS. If they don’t get DRS after turn 1 there would’ve been a lot more exciting racing into turn 4. 

Maybe so.  The original stated purpose of DRS was to compensate the trailing car for being in dirty air.  Now the new aero also addresses that.  I see far too many passes that, between the combination of the power of the tow, and the slot gap, are nothing more than an inevitable result of the laws of physics.  I actively loathe this.

I view it as no different than the boring and inevitable "passing" that occurs in NASCAR when there's a column of 20 cars going 180 mph nose-to-tail, and the #2 car decides to take a different line, the other 18 cars follow, and then the "leader" gets "passed" 19 times.  Those aren't real actual passes, they're just an inevitable outcome based on the laws of physics.

That shit's boring and it makes me hate the racing that's associated with it. 

[Burt Macklin 19050]

3 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Maybe so.  The original stated purpose of DRS was to compensate the trailing car for being in dirty air.  Now the new aero also addresses that.  I see far too many passes that, between the combination of the power of the tow, and the slot gap, are nothing more than an inevitable result of the laws of physics.  I actively loathe this.

I view it as no different than the boring and inevitable "passing" that occurs in NASCAR when there's a column of 20 cars going 180 mph nose-to-tail, and the #2 car decides to take a different line, the other 18 cars follow, and then the "leader" gets "passed" 19 times.  Those aren't real actual passes, they're just an inevitable outcome based on the laws of physics.

That shit's boring and it makes me hate the racing that's associated with it. 

Yeah, I’m definitely with you on all that. I guess we just arrive at slightly different solutions. 
 

On a side note, I’ve never reallly watched NASCAR but I saw they were doing the combo event with IndyCar this weekend, so I watched the highlights of the brickyard race, and it was just constant safety car restarts leading to more crashes in the first 3 turns. It’s not even racing, literally just bumper cars then pack them all back together for an “exciting” restart just so they can crash again. I really don’t understand how people like NASCAR. 

[Guest]

Re: Alonso to Aston Martin. Ok then.

Edited August 1, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, I’m definitely with you on all that. I guess we just arrive at slightly different solutions. 
 

On a side note, I’ve never reallly watched NASCAR but I saw they were doing the combo event with IndyCar this weekend, so I watched the highlights of the brickyard race, and it was just constant safety car restarts leading to more crashes in the first 3 turns. It’s not even racing, literally just bumper cars then pack them all back together for an “exciting” restart just so they can crash again. I really don’t understand how people like NASCAR. 

+1. I watched the end of the race at COTA. Thought it was just awful. It was literally push the other guy off the track and then gain a position. Doesn't help that they look like school buses trying to go around a road course. 

I love some Daytona, but apart from that, no thanks.

[Guest]

I'm all for DRS. I think it's needed, but it could be reduced in effectiveness on some tracks. 

What surprises me is that there aren't more back and forth battles with it. So Car B closes the gap to Car A and gets DRS. Car B eventually makes a pass, but it seems rare that Car A comes back with DRS on the next lap to overtake Car B. (Saw it a little with Max/Charles early in the season). Seems like the trailing car catches, uses DRS to pass, and then heads on down the road without the help of DRS anymore.

When you think about it that way, maybe it helps push the genuinely faster car over the edge to be able to actually pass (catching is one thing, passing is another).

Edited August 1, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[Burt Macklin 19050]

I find the Alonso to AM move kind of depressing. It’s just sad watching legends of the sport fiddle around at the back and not even make it out of Q3. Having Alonso in the Alpine is a lot more fun.

 

But I am excited to see what Piastri can do in a top 4 car. Very few rookies get that kind of chance nowadays. Putting yourself in the same category as Russell and Leclerc in the junior formulas is very good company, even if people seem to think he’s not quite that level of talent. 

[kevwun 15882]

31 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'm all for DRS. I think it's needed, but it could be reduced in effectiveness on some tracks. 

What surprises me is that there aren't more back and forth battles with it. So Car B closes the gap to Car A and gets DRS. Car B eventually makes a pass, but it seems rare that Car A comes back with DRS on the next lap to overtake Car B. (Saw it a little with Max/Charles early in the season). Seems like the trailing car catches, uses DRS to pass, and then heads on down the road without the help of DRS anymore.

When you think about it that way, maybe it helps push the genuinely faster car over the edge to be able to actually pass (catching is one thing, passing is another).

That Max and Charles battles happened because Charles was faster in the corners and Max was faster on the straights.  They may run a lap in the same amount of time, but they get there in different ways.  I think you are right that the lack of back and forths in general is because the car doing the passing is actually faster so they pull away once the pass is done.  After watching Hungary, I don't see how anyone thinks less of that would be a good thing.  That was a fun race.

Edited August 1, 2022 by kevwun

[Chewbacca 7783]

51 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I find the Alonso to AM move kind of depressing. It’s just sad watching legends of the sport fiddle around at the back and not even make it out of Q3. Having Alonso in the Alpine is a lot more fun.

 

But I am excited to see what Piastri can do in a top 4 car. Very few rookies get that kind of chance nowadays. Putting yourself in the same category as Russell and Leclerc in the junior formulas is very good company, even if people seem to think he’s not quite that level of talent. 

Yeah, my son is a big Fernando fan and hates AM.  He's not a happy camper this morning.  

[utee94 15862]

Max was out of position on the starting grid.  Of course he was going to be doing a lot of passing.  Some of that passing might have been more interesting if he didn't have the added advantage of the inevitable laws of physics, an advantage his car didn't need regardless.

Chuck's team had terrible strategy and left him as a sitting duck on shit tires.  Of course he was going to get passed and never have a chance to get it back (aside from perhaps a weird Max spin-out).

 

[NoName 16397]

I don't read planet f1 but got this on Google News

https://www.planetf1.com/news/george-russell-ferrari-red-bull-spa/

This is about the bouncing, either way fuck straight off George“

Quote

 

There’s no doubt Ferrari and Red Bull have pushed the regulations in that regard, and we’ve sort of respected it as the regulation was intended,” Russell told Sky Sports F1 after finishing third in the Hungarian Grand Prix.

 

“But there’s no guarantees it would bring them closer to us. We know if it was on our car it would make us slower. There’s no guarantees, every car is different.

 

who has stretched the rules more in the last decade than MB? Or are we to believe all that  bullshit with Lewis last year at the end with his huge comebacks was just because he's a great driver?

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

NoName and Burt Macklin, FBI are both correct.

The new regs are a double edged sword, because while it is much easier to follow other cars now, the slipstream effect is MUCH less as well, so they still currently either need to use DRS or have a lot of tire offset to actually pass in many cases.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, NoName said:

I don't read planet f1 but got this on Google News

https://www.planetf1.com/news/george-russell-ferrari-red-bull-spa/

This is about the bouncing, either way fuck straight off George“

who has stretched the rules more in the last decade than MB? Or are we to believe all that  bullshit with Lewis last year at the end with his huge comebacks was just because he's a great driver?

Dunno who, what, or why, but that Brazil race was just laughable. After a season of battling, Hamilton just beat Red Bull like a drum at Interlagos.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

All George is saying there is that he thinks the new TD will slow RB and Ferrari down a little (through he does then hedge a little bit), and it probably will at least a small amount.

[52-80 19241]

On a different note, i still dont understand how AlphaTauri is a title sponsor. 

It is, what, an esoteric clothing brand that 3 people in the world wear, and 2 of them race for the team?  Theres gotta be some Rich Energy level of funny accounting going on with that. 

[Burt Macklin 19050]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

On a different note, i still dont understand how AlphaTauri is a title sponsor. 

It is, what, an esoteric clothing brand that 3 people in the world wear, and 2 of them race for the team?  Theres gotta be some Rich Energy level of funny accounting going on with that. 

Alpha Tauri is a fashion company owned by Red Bull. It’s just a different name to throw on the Red Bull B team, but RB ultimately funds their budget. 

[52-80 19241]

57 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Alpha Tauri is a fashion company owned by Red Bull. It’s just a different name to throw on the Red Bull B team, but RB ultimately funds their budget. 

Why waste promotional space on a brand that is in all likelihood nonprofitable

[NoName 16397]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Why waste promotional space on a brand that is in all likelihood nonprofitable

because you want a junior team?

[Burt Macklin 19050]

Saw a report that Alonso has up to 3 years, each at his option. That’s a bold move by AM for a guy getting up there who tends to wear out his welcome. 
 

Also seems like there’s a rumor Piastri has an out in his Alpine contract and could be a FA, and that Danny ric would be interested in going to Alpine, in which case Piastri could go to McLaren. No idea if that’s legit, but it would be fascinating. 

[Chewbacca 7783]

5 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Saw a report that Alonso has up to 3 years, each at his option. That’s a bold move by AM for a guy getting up there who tends to wear out his welcome. 
 

Also seems like there’s a rumor Piastri has an out in his Alpine contract and could be a FA, and that Danny ric would be interested in going to Alpine, in which case Piastri could go to McLaren. No idea if that’s legit, but it would be fascinating. 

That would be fascinating, for sure.  I think Danny's done at McLaren no matter what after next year.  Would be a smart move for him to make, IMO to jump early to something else.

[52-80 19241]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

because you want a junior team?

that doesnt contradict the question.  e.g. why not sponsor it under Krating Daeng, the other business belonging to red bull's majority owner; or simply cola, an actual growing brand in europe; or partner with an external sponsor and reduce the funding cost of junior team.

j.crew racing has a ring to it.

 

 

[TexEx15 17568]

 

[utee94 15862]

Live footage taken in front of Lewis's house:

 

 

[G650 14277]

Alpine might out clown Ferrari this year.

[Amos Moses 795]

Otmar appears to be a bit behind and overmatched.

[ConferenceRoom 6146]

Asked if Piastri or his management have indicated that he doesn’t intend to race for Alpine, Szafnauer said: “Oscar and his camp are considering their options, whatever that means.”

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TexEx15 said:

 

Funny, I've always thought Lewis Hamilton and Russell Wilson were very similar in my mind.

[Chewbacca 7783]

 

Thank God it's not Max. If orange smoke started showing up at Broncos games I'd have to kill a bitch.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

[NoName 16397]

18 hours ago, 52-80 said:

that doesnt contradict the question.  e.g. why not sponsor it under Krating Daeng, the other business belonging to red bull's majority owner; or simply cola, an actual growing brand in europe; or partner with an external sponsor and reduce the funding cost of junior team.

j.crew racing has a ring to it.

Krating Daeng is a different company from Red Bull GmbH.

I am guessing it is hard to find a external title sponsor for a junior team? or just that  Dietrich Mateschitz DGAF

all that said, good point on simply cola.

Edited August 2, 2022 by NoName

[NoName 16397]

10 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

seems strange to have no comments or tweets from Piastri

[Burt Macklin 19050]

18 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I’m still not sure exactly how good Piastri is, but it will be exciting to see a rookie debut in a top 4 car (depending on how teams improve over the offseason). 
 

I’m not sure the last time a rookie debuted in a top 4 car. I guess you could say Norris but that was only with the Tracing Point penalties and max switched to RB part way through the year. Other than that, I can’t really think of anyone since Hamilton who actually debuted in a top 4 car on pace. 
 

Ocon should be a really good measuring stick, since he’s pretty dead on average on the F1 grid and very consistent. It took both Leclerc and Norris about half of their rookie season to really get up to speed, so I expect Ocon will beat him handily in the first half, but I could see Piastri looking on par or even slightly better than Ocon by the end of the year. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Burt Macklin

[Dutch 4479]

[kevwun 15882]

Did Binotto take over Alpine's social media department?

[Dutch 4479]

Also...

Lulz. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Dutch

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Fucking lol.

Alex Palou part 2???

[utee94 15862]

There's a reason they call it the Silly Season.  

This year it seems to be somewhat turbocharged though, that's for sure.

[ConferenceRoom 6146]

3 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

 

 

[NoName 16397]

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

 

edit:

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by NoName

[NoName 16397]

https://jalopnik.com/toto-wolff-risk-of-brain-damage-from-porpoising-means-1849356193

 

Quote

 

“I’ve just sat down with the FIA and there’s all this talk of lobbying in either direction and I think fundamentally, what are we talking about,” he said.

“The FIA has commissioned medical work on the porpoising. The outcome, the summary of the doctors, is that a frequency of one to two hertz, sustained over a few minutes, can lead to brain damages. We have six to seven hertz over several hours.

...

“So the answer is very easy. The FIA needs to do something about it.”

 

if only there was something, anything Mercedes could do to take better care of their drivers. i am sure if it was at all an option they would take it right, no matter what the outcome was? just because of how much they love their drivers.

they would never - in any way - do anything to risk their drivers long term health for something as silly as sports, right?!

edit: the comments on that article opened me up to this delicious quote from Toto, of all people: https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/less-entertainment-in-f1-because-mercedes-lags-rivals-says-wolff

 

Quote

 

"I think the reason why races have less entertainment is because there's just too much performance gap between the teams," Wolff said. His comments came after the Austrian Grand Prix, where Red Bull and Ferrari were particularly dominant in the weekend's sprint race.

“If you have Verstappen disappearing in a distance, the two Ferraris being the only entertainment during the race and then we are in the middle of nowhere in no man’s land," said Wolff, adding “Then the others are further behind, and then you have DRS trains. That never can make a good sprint race.”

 

as a reminder

Quote

Even taking into account the team's earlier, less successful years, Mercedes has won 47.7% of the F1 races it has ever entered. Red Bull and Ferrari don't come close, at just 24.4% and 23.2% respectively.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by NoName

[Chewbacca 7783]

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

Did Binotto take over Alpine's social media department?

"What? I'm not driving for you."

"We are checking... we are checking..."

[utee94 15862]

Regardless of where the contracts and obligations currently stand, playing it out on social media is extremely bush league.