Station Eleven - HBO Max

[austingirl 2192]

14 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

I really hope the finale is solid. If so, it will be one of my favorite series in a while.  

Question: does anyone know the basic plot in Miranda's Station 11? Can we piece that together from the show?  Does it even matter?  

They do a voiceover in one episode with young Kirsten explaining the gist of the plot. The book has a longer explanation if you want to go the bookfag route.

[zman13 180]

Really enjoyed episode 9. It was strange, funny, emotional, touching and deer butchering. Everything I want in a show.

[Caver60 396]

I binged the first 9 episodes last week one day. The characters are engaging enough that even though there are aspects of the show that aren't convincing to me, I still wanted to know what happens to everyone. My biggest problem:

Spoiler

After the whole land mines attached to childrens' chests thing, I couldn't see any way in the world where Tyler becomes even slightly sympathetic. Not just to me as a viewer, but especially to Kirsten who knew those kids and their grandfather who got killed. Also the way his character as the Prophet plays out, the land mine incident doesn't seem like something that he actually would do. His role/character bothers me.

 

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

29 minutes ago, Caver60 said:

I binged the first 9 episodes last week one day. The characters are engaging enough that even though there are aspects of the show that aren't convincing to me, I still wanted to know what happens to everyone. My biggest problem:

  Hide contents

After the whole land mines attached to childrens' chests thing, I couldn't see any way in the world where Tyler becomes even slightly sympathetic. Not just to me as a viewer, but especially to Kirsten who knew those kids and their grandfather who got killed. Also the way his character as the Prophet plays out, the land mine incident doesn't seem like something that he actually would do. His role/character bothers me.

 

Spoiler

Whether you buy it or not, Tyler said that one of the Undersea children came up with the landmine idea when he was out due to the stab wound.  He "lost control of the story".  

 

Separately, was listening to The Watch podcast and they made an observation I haven't thought of.... Clark is trying to tell kids about a Karaoke machine and how they were awesome or whatever, and the kids in the class are like "Fuck that, when does the Shakespeare start?"

The other observation - Kirsten sees Station 11 as genius work of fiction.  Tyler sees it as almost folklore.

I can't tell what episode 10 is going to be because there is so much on the table.  It could be intertwining Tyler's and Kirsten's time alone, but that leaves very little time for the Year 20 resolution.

Do we see Year 20 Jeevan in this episode?  He is going on a "house call" at end of episode.  I wonder if that is for Tank Girl?  I kind of like the idea of not seeing him again with episode 9 being the closure.

[zman13 180]

1 hour ago, Caver60 said:

I binged the first 9 episodes last week one day. The characters are engaging enough that even though there are aspects of the show that aren't convincing to me, I still wanted to know what happens to everyone. My biggest problem:

  Hide contents

After the whole land mines attached to childrens' chests thing, I couldn't see any way in the world where Tyler becomes even slightly sympathetic. Not just to me as a viewer, but especially to Kirsten who knew those kids and their grandfather who got killed. Also the way his character as the Prophet plays out, the land mine incident doesn't seem like something that he actually would do. His role/character bothers me.

 

I feel like Kirsten saw a lot of sadness in Tyler and commiserated. I definitely don't think she agreed or liked him at all. I think she saw him as a victim of bad parents and a pandemic who then tried to rationalize what happened and control it. His control involved using religious zealotry to kill the "before" people who "caused" or "deserved" the pandemic. She sees him as another victim (like her) who went in a very different direction. 

[bschoolprof 6273]

Spoiler

Whether you buy it or not, Tyler said that one of the Undersea children came up with the landmine idea when he was out due to the stab wound.  He "lost control of the story".  

 
Separately, was listening to The Watch podcast and they made an observation I haven't thought of.... Clark is trying to tell kids about a Karaoke machine and how they were awesome or whatever, and the kids in the class are like "Fuck that, when does the Shakespeare start?"
The other observation - Kirsten sees Station 11 as genius work of fiction.  Tyler sees it as almost folklore.
I can't tell what episode 10 is going to be because there is so much on the table.  It could be intertwining Tyler's and Kirsten's time alone, but that leaves very little time for the Year 20 resolution.
Do we see Year 20 Jeevan in this episode?  He is going on a "house call" at end of episode.  I wonder if that is for Tank Girl?  I kind of like the idea of not seeing him again with episode 9 being the closure.

I assumed Jeevan is going to the airport and will reunite with Kirsten.

On another note, it seems implausible that Kirsten wouldn’t immediately connect the prophet to Arthur Leander early on after talking to him upon learning he knows the book well and her copy wasn’t stolen. She knows only 5 books were ever printed and she got one from Leander. Making this a shocking epiphany late in the series is odd.

[used2b 249]

Horrible.

[austingirl 2192]

8 minutes ago, used2b said:

Horrible.

[austingirl 2192]

7 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

  Hide contents

Whether you buy it or not, Tyler said that one of the Undersea children came up with the landmine idea when he was out due to the stab wound.  He "lost control of the story".  

 

Separately, was listening to The Watch podcast and they made an observation I haven't thought of.... Clark is trying to tell kids about a Karaoke machine and how they were awesome or whatever, and the kids in the class are like "Fuck that, when does the Shakespeare start?"

The other observation - Kirsten sees Station 11 as genius work of fiction.  Tyler sees it as almost folklore.

I can't tell what episode 10 is going to be because there is so much on the table.  It could be intertwining Tyler's and Kirsten's time alone, but that leaves very little time for the Year 20 resolution.

Do we see Year 20 Jeevan in this episode?  He is going on a "house call" at end of episode.  I wonder if that is for Tank Girl?  I kind of like the idea of not seeing him again with episode 9 being the closure.

Spoiler

I completely missed where Tyler said that the kid suicide bombers were put up to it by someone else while he was recovering. It makes Kristen's reluctant empathy with him much more palatable. I agree that that act does seem out of character for him.

I think Jeevan's house call will be for Sarah at the airport.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

10 was fantastic. 

[Buzzrock 14944]

So. Fucking. Good.

[Buzzrock 14944]

That was a satisfying conclusion and I’m 50/50 on whether I want a season 2. Shows like this often deteriorate when they run out of source material, but it would be easy to come up with more adventures for the Symphony, the airport crowd, Jeevan etc.

When Clark realized who Kirsten was all my hair stood up. What a great scene. And of course it got majorly dusty when Kirsten and Jeevan saw each other.

I was worried that Tyler was going to kill someone during Hamlet (I thought his mom or Clark), which was the intent I’m sure, and I was so relieved when he dropped the knife.

What a great and unique and very human apocalypse story. Loved it.

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

That was a satisfying conclusion and I’m 50/50 on whether I want a season 2. Shows like this often deteriorate when they run out of source material, but it would be easy to come up with more adventures for the Symphony, the airport crowd, Jeevan etc.

When Clark realized who Kirsten was all my hair stood up. What a great scene. And of course it got majorly dusty when Kirsten and Jeevan saw each other.

I was worried that Tyler was going to kill someone during Hamlet (I thought his mom or Clark), which was the intent I’m sure, and I was so relieved when he dropped the knife.

What a great and unique and very human apocalypse story. Loved it.

Great ending.  I don't *think* there is an intent to do a season 2, but who knows.  Somerville was part of the leftovers which was solid but grim as hell when covering the source material, then flourished when it went beyond the source material.  So there is precedent from this show runner to being able to pull it off.  And frankly, while I didn't  read the book, some of the detours from the book (treatment of Tyler character, most of episode 9) were successes in the show.  

[austingirl 2192]

How long are we spoilering stuff?

Spoiler

I loved ep 10. Couple of small issues - one is how Clark, Tyler, and Elizabeth were able to just up and perform the main roles in Hamlet at the drop of a hat. The other is Miranda calling the Gitchegumee pilot and telling him to stay on the tarmac. Felt like they were reeeealy stretching to connect her to that part of the story. But anyway, I'm glad Clark didn't end up going full villain, which is where I thought he was going at the end of ep 9. Of course, Jeevan and Kirsten's reunion was lovely.

Overall, I love the idea that art and music can play this big role in a post-apocalyptic world, and that this was a story about that more than about the brutality of survival. It was very well done, and I'd rather they don't do more seasons. The story should end here. I'm looking forward to reading more books by the author, though.

 

[Storm the Field 5302]

Watched Episode 7 last night. Just a damn fine piece of TV. Acting and music were A+. 

[bschoolprof 6273]

I really enjoyed the whole series. I think it will go down as a classic, and I hope they do not make another season. 

[wild_turkey 3182]

I really enjoyed the whole series. I think it will go down as a classic, and I hope they do not make another season. 

Agreed. I thought the interweaving Year 20 with the pandemic outbreak year was excellent, and they would probably lose that if they do a second season. Although I suppose they could use flashbacks to fill in some gap years, but we also wouldn’t get the 2 great moments when Kirsten reunites with Jeevan and when Clark realized who she was. I hope they leave it as is.

I thought the show was excellent, one of the best things I’ve watched in a while. Great cinematography, acting, music, and very suspenseful writing packed with real human characters.

My only 2 nitpicks about the plot in the finale:

1. I thought Tyler’s forgiveness was a little too easy for someone who essentially kidnapped a bunch of kids.

2. Miranda calling up the airplane pilot felt forced and completely unnecessary. Her character was critical to the entire story without some last minute twist where she saved the airport.

[Buzzrock 14944]

They could show us what happened to Kirsten between Jeevan and the conductor. Those had to be some dark times.

I also liked how the gang was singing “Leavin on a midnight train to Georgia” when Kirsten was reunited with Leavin Jeevan.

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

https://youtu.be/TcT4Pi0Zixo

 

(sorry - this is excursions. Will imbed later) 

Edited January 14, 2022 by A-Tex Devil

[gmr548 16617]

1. I thought Tyler’s forgiveness was a little too easy for someone who essentially kidnapped a bunch of kids.

I was definitely right there with Clark when Tyler and Elizabeth just walked off into the sunset with the army of kidnapped cult children.

I thought the Hamlet scene was really compelling - to whoever asked, these folks were all Shakespearean actors or in that world, it’s not hard to believe they could pick it up quick. Using the play as their come to Jesus moment was interesting.

Agree the show should be left where it is. A very well done mini series but additional material could take it off the rails quickly.

[gmr548 16617]

1. I thought Tyler’s forgiveness was a little too easy for someone who essentially kidnapped a bunch of kids.

I was definitely right there with Clark when Tyler and Elizabeth just walked off into the sunset with the army of kidnapped cult children.

I thought the Hamlet scene was really compelling - to whoever asked, these folks were all Shakespearean actors or in that world, it’s not hard to believe they could pick it up quick. Using the play as their come to Jesus moment was interesting.

Agree the show should be left where it is. A very well done mini series but additional material could take it off the rails quickly.

[Red Five 40895]

Awfully dusty when Kirsten and Jeevan see each other. 

[wild_turkey 3182]

Awfully dusty when Kirsten and Jeevan see each other. 

I so badly wanted her to follow him down the right fork in the road.

[Buzzrock 14944]

39 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

I so badly wanted her to follow him down the right fork in the road.

Yeah but it had been so long, and Jeevan had his family and Kirsten had hers. They will see each other again.

[bolverk 29727]

Good interview with writer and showrunner Patrick Somerville: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/station-eleven-finale-interview-1279145/

A couple of points:

1. The show is described as a postapocalyptic show about joy. That's well put.
2. Holy shit, how did I miss that connection with the mountain bike guy?!?

[Guest]

On 1/12/2022 at 2:54 PM, Caver60 said:

I binged the first 9 episodes last week one day. The characters are engaging enough that even though there are aspects of the show that aren't convincing to me, I still wanted to know what happens to everyone. My biggest problem:

  Reveal hidden contents

After the whole land mines attached to childrens' chests thing, I couldn't see any way in the world where Tyler becomes even slightly sympathetic. Not just to me as a viewer, but especially to Kirsten who knew those kids and their grandfather who got killed. Also the way his character as the Prophet plays out, the land mine incident doesn't seem like something that he actually would do. His role/character bothers me.

 

Agreed on your hidden comments. It’s a major hole in the story. The show is waning on me. The Prophet’s arc is just weird. After having caught up last night, Episode 10’s ending is another odd turn for him. 

I was disappointed in the Jeevan reunion. He was way too nonchalant. 

[DFWTexEx 278]

Thanks for turning me on this show.  I really liked it.  So well made: with great acting, photography and music.  I think it nicely wove together many themes about the persistence of art, the choice of family and how we can find joy.  The world for any of us can seem to end at any time, but we find ways to move on.

[Celery Man 21001]

Again they did at least address that he didn't do that - the kids did while he lost control of the story due to being stabbed. I wasn't sure I believed that at first, but after Hamlet I think I do.

Honestly I can't really analyze this show. I think partially because I am fried at the end of the day (after work and baby time) when I get a minute to watch a thing while still kinda cleaning up, and partially this show had the feeling like you could analyze it deeply but it should also maybe just be experienced and felt. I decided not to think too hard this time around, I think I'll watch again at some point and try to better tie things together. The prophet as a character is definitely the one i least understand right now, but i think it is all there. I think Clark is probably another one that I need to ruminate on - there feels like a lot of depth there and towards the end I had him too neatly compartmentalized in my head as playing a bad guy role.

Honestly the biggest suspension of disbelief thing about this story is the fact that the traveling symphony exists and manages to sustain itself. But that's integral to the whole story and I ended up liking it, after thinking it was weird and maybe dumb at first.

The Leftovers is a show that I think about a fair bit - it has a mental stickiness.  I need to go back and rewatch it. I feel like this one might have some of that same stickiness.

Also, I kept meaning to go look up the armless burn victim Traveling Symphony guy - Prince Amponsah is his name, he was severely burned in an apartment fire several years back - https://health.sunnybrook.ca/magazine/spring-2016/prince-burn-survivor/ . He was a good supporting person on the cast - I liked what his presence added and that they didn't explore his origin or whatever.

[Celery Man 21001]

3 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

https://youtu.be/TcT4Pi0Zixo

 

(sorry - this is excursions. Will imbed later) 

awesome

 

also one last thought - there were a lot of little sounds that came up over and over again in the show that were great, and one of those was the zippo lighter

[bschoolprof 6273]

One note: The finale has already aired, so in my view we should stop spoilering.  If you haven't watched the season yet, you should not be reading this far in the thread . . . so anyway, I'm going maskless.

I agree about the prophet storyline - it was the worst part of the story for me.  I did not read the book, but I read the plot summary of the book on wiki.  They way the author handled this storyline sounds much better to me. 

 

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Good interview with writer and showrunner Patrick Somerville: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/station-eleven-finale-interview-1279145/

A couple of points:

1. The show is described as a postapocalyptic show about joy. That's well put.
2. Holy shit, how did I miss that connection with the mountain bike guy?!?

So Alex is the baby of the mom that passes away in episode 9 who knew Tyler.  That’s canon, apparently.  Wonder how she gets to the Traveling Symphony.  David Cross’ wife in Pingtree and the doctor looked alike but not the same character.  

[Buzzrock 14944]

The way I took it was that Tyler was badly damaged by the adults in his life. Clark was a monumental prick in what he did, and his mother wasn't strong enough to do the right thing. So he did something awful and disappeared and who knows what all he dealt with for years and years. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

The way I took it was that Tyler was badly damaged by the adults in his life. Clark was a monumental prick in what he did, and his mother wasn't strong enough to do the right thing. So he did something awful and disappeared and who knows what all he dealt with for years and years. 

What did Clark do that he was a monumental prick?  

A lol moment for me in E. 10 was Clark’s “What the fuck?!” when viewing all the kids following Tyler. 

[Buzzrock 14944]

He was talking over the radio saying that Tyler was evil and he and Elizabeth needed to go.

[wild_turkey 3182]

The Prophet storyline was also the weakest for me. I didn’t feel like the childhood version of Tyler had justifiable reasons for walking away from his mother and hating the prior world, but I guess he was just a highly confused child in a broken world, and reading Station Eleven made a different impression on him combined with the events that unfolded at the airport.

Whatever I didn’t like about his story was completely overshadowed for me by the Kirsten and Jeevan story, which I thought was incredibly powerful from beginning to end.

[Celery Man 21001]

There's something to Clark about his pattern and his personality. At a high risk of having a hammer and seeing nails everywhere, it fits that his character is an addict - he's a good guy at heart, but he feels a compulsion to take control, he chafes against other people who have interfered with his plans or succeeded where he hasn't, he harbors resentments for eons, etc etc etc. He saves the day and pulls everyone together when Homeland Security Janitor takes off with the girls' soccer team, and immediately is mashing his new grandeur into his... who's going to go back to sit in fucking coach now bitch.

He's still doing it 20 years later, and he's still not a bad guy he's just fucked up. I need to relisten to his conversation with Miles in episode 10. When he visits Arthur (love Gael Garcia Bernal btw perfect for that part) and relapses and makes an ass out of himself, that's part of that pattern.

Tyler was already fucked up seemingly, nothing that happened at the airport unfucked him, the survivor from the plane getting shot in the head and then quarantining on a private jet for... a month? and then overhearing Clark vent his poisonous thoughts to his dead friend who he resented. My running understanding of the Prophet is that he was pretty much "fuck all of these boomers" and I can kinda get to how he winds up with a kid army as fucked up as it may be.

[Buzzrock 14944]

I forgot about Homeland Security Janitor and the girls soccer team. That could be a whole other kind of Season 2. 

[Buzzrock 14944]

It’s fascinating to consider a world where only one in a thousand survive. There would be so many surplus resources of certain kinds (everyone could have a mansion), but lots of things would still expire including gas.

I would assume deer would be everywhere. They are numerous even with the current hunting population. Fresh water shouldn’t be too hard to come by. I imagine power and plumbing would be a challenge.

Thanos wet dream.

[seven 1368]

The child cult is definitely the weakest part but everything else is so great that it doesn't matter (to me). 

Loved this series, it's instantly up towards the top of all time for me. 

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

I forgot about Homeland Security Janitor and the girls soccer team. That could be a whole other kind of Season 2. 

Yeah - the only way this works for multiple seasons is to do it like Fargo.  Which could be interesting.  What happened in LA, Austin, Paris, etc.  have some tangential connections from one season to the next. 

[zman13 180]

Episode 10 was awesome.

 

Small nitpicky question about most towns lacking power. I feel with solar power getting more and more popular nowadays, I feel that more towns would have scavenged panels and had power. But I think the book/series chose to have only the airport have power for story/emotional reasons.

[bschoolprof 6273]

I really liked the theme of reunion in ep 10, which of course belied Kirsten's quote (paraphrasing): "you can't get anyone/anything back from before." Tyler with his Mom, Kirsten with Jeevan, even Clark's recognition of Kirsten as pre-pan "Kiki" and her connection to Arthur and Miranda.  I'm sure there are others.  

There is no before, except there is. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

Agreed. I thought the interweaving Year 20 with the pandemic outbreak year was excellent, and they would probably lose that if they do a second season. Although I suppose they could use flashbacks to fill in some gap years, but we also wouldn’t get the 2 great moments when Kirsten reunites with Jeevan and when Clark realized who she was. I hope they leave it as is.

I thought the show was excellent, one of the best things I’ve watched in a while. Great cinematography, acting, music, and very suspenseful writing packed with real human characters.

My only 2 nitpicks about the plot in the finale:

1. I thought Tyler’s forgiveness was a little too easy for someone who essentially kidnapped a bunch of kids.

2. Miranda calling up the airplane pilot felt forced and completely unnecessary. Her character was critical to the entire story without some last minute twist where she saved the airport.

The way the people at the airport had started to realize the shit they were in by the time the Gitchegumee plane was considering de-planing, a force of people led by Miles and his fellow janitor Homeland Security fraudster surely would’ve prevented it. The Miranda call was overly dramatic and unnecessary and the Hurricane Hugo connection with the pilot was really cheesy. 

The constant references to Station Eleven were over the top and made the show weird. Focusing on a kids’ book all series long and getting kids to buy off on The Prophet was just weird. 

I didn’t realize Tyler said someone else ordered the bombing. That changes my mind about him somewhat, but his demolition of The Museum and then 180-degree turn toward Mom and Clark seemed out of character and contrived. 

I was very excited for the Jeevan reunion but I thought his character fell flat. Really flat.  And I would’ve loved to have heard Kirsten say “I waited for days but you never came back” and him to say “I got attacked by a fucking direwolf, lost half my foot, and was forced to become an OB.”  

I know it sounds like I’m down on the series. I’m not that much; I thought it was extremely well acted. I’m just not sure how much I like the plot and writing. It is intriguing enough for me to rewatch. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Porterhouse

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

He was talking over the radio saying that Tyler was evil and he and Elizabeth needed to go.

He wasn’t wrong at the time. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

It’s fascinating to consider a world where only one in a thousand survive. There would be so many surplus resources of certain kinds (everyone could have a mansion), but lots of things would still expire including gas.

I would assume deer would be everywhere. They are numerous even with the current hunting population. Fresh water shouldn’t be too hard to come by. I imagine power and plumbing would be a challenge.

Thanos wet dream.

You’d still have 7,000,000 people left, and the world would be a LOT more advanced than portrayed in the show. 

[wild_turkey 3182]

You’d still have 7,000,000 people left, and the world would be a LOT more advanced than portrayed in the show. 

I tend to disagree. The pandemic might leave 7,000,000 people behind, but I would think secondary deaths and a decrease in birth rate would cause the population to quickly decline further.

World governments would be obliterated and the population density would be incredibly low. Think of what your current living situation would be like if your 1,000 closest neighbors died off. Entire blocks, subdivisions, apartment buildings would be empty. Fire, police, medical services fall apart. Utilities break down. That lends itself to violence and it quickly becomes a hostile dog eat dog world.

[bschoolprof 6273]

Yes, we take for granted the complicated production and distribution systems that keep our power and water running (see Texas during the snowstorm).  If 99% of us disappeared, that shit would fall apart pretty quickly and likely for a while.  So much institutional knowledge would be lost.  

 

BTW, bookfag shit, but in the book, there were towns with power at the end.  

[Red Five 40895]

11 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Think of what your current living situation would be like if your 1,000 closest neighbors died off.

[Buzzrock 14944]

It made me think of a Joe Rogan line from one of his stand up routines where he was talking about how no one really knows how anything works. “If I sent you into the words with a hatchet, how long before you could send me an email?”

If only one in a thousand Americans lived you’d be left with 330,000 men women and children. That’s the population of Corpus Christi.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

I tend to disagree. The pandemic might leave 7,000,000 people behind, but I would think secondary deaths and a decrease in birth rate would cause the population to quickly decline further.

World governments would be obliterated and the population density would be incredibly low. Think of what your current living situation would be like if your 1,000 closest neighbors died off. Entire blocks, subdivisions, apartment buildings would be empty. Fire, police, medical services fall apart. Utilities break down. That lends itself to violence and it quickly becomes a hostile dog eat dog world.

Of course. But after 20 years, you’d have civilization rebuild. 20 years is a long time. You’d have security forces and power set up in most major cities. 

I haven’t thought this through like the author, but I’d like to think you’d at least have some police, medical, utilities and light duty transport back up and running. This isn’t a natural disaster fucking up the infrastructure currently on earth. This is the Plague on steroids, with the infrastructure still very much intact with no more Plague.