The Climate thread

[Biff Tannen 45494]

Sitting in the middle of a climate change “discussion” among the Fox News in-laws. I am just smiling and listening. It’s wild. 

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Sitting in the middle of a climate change “discussion” among the Fox News in-laws. I am just smiling and listening. It’s wild. 

“Al Gore made a movie about global warming. Al Gore is a Democrat. I am a Republican. Therefore I disagree with Al Gore. I have chosen to take a position on a scientific subject I don’t understand based solely on the political party I vote for.”

[Biff Tannen 45494]

50 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

“Al Gore made a movie about global warming. Al Gore is a Democrat. I am a Republican. Therefore I disagree with Al Gore. I have chosen to take a position on a scientific subject I don’t understand based solely on the political party I vote for.”

Bill Clinton was definitely brought up. Thankfully the conversation shifted pretty quickly, but it became apparent really quickly that no one knew anything about what they were saying. With climate change, it literally devolved into them just spitting out Fox News buzzwords. Not even complete sentences. Just “gas stoves!” and “electric cars!” 
 

Broken people. 

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Bill Clinton was definitely brought up. Thankfully the conversation shifted pretty quickly, but it became apparent really quickly that no one knew anything about what they were saying. With climate change, it literally devolved into them just spitting out Fox News buzzwords. Not even complete sentences. Just “gas stoves!” and “electric cars!” 
 

Broken people. 

I like to ask people what the nature of their denial is. Do they think that greenhouse gases don’t have the property of trapping heat? Do they think the global mean temperature isn’t rising? That it’s a hoax? Do they think it’s rising but that humans aren’t causing it? Do they think that humans are causing it but it’s not harmful? Or maybe it’s actually a good thing? Which is it?

Because they don’t know. Science has one position. Humans are pumping massive quantities of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and its having the expected result of trapping more heat and warming the planet. That’s what drives climate change. Climate is a chaotic system and the energy that powers it is heat. We are seeing what we expect to see in terms of warmer average temperatures and more frequent and more extreme weather events. The oceans are rising, glaciers are disappearing, corals are dying, natural habitats are migrating, etc.

Deniers, otoh, don’t take a scientific approach. They approach it like lawyers, which some of them are, just trying to create reasonable doubt. They’re not trying to offer an explanation. They’re suggesting all of those alternatives to the position of science. Anything to prevent legislation that would affect the bottom lines of the industries who are paying them to sow doubt. So the people who deny the scientific consensus don’t have a fixed idea of what their alternate reality is. They just know that they vote Republican and as a Republican it’s their policy that they don’t believe in global warming.

 

[bolverk 29399]

I've been out here in Big Spring staying at the house I grew up in for the last few weeks taking care of my recently deceased mom's affairs/house (fuck cancer). Of course, we all know how dry it's been the past couple of years, but the sandstorms are the worst I ever recall having experienced during my first 25 years as a resident either here or up in Lubbock. You may have seen the dramatic photos/footage of the one we had yesterday. It was biblical further up on the South Plains and in the Panhandle. 

Fortunately, down here in Big Spring it didn't get so bad because the cotton fields are only on the north side of town, leaving less exposed dirt to the elements. This morning (like y'all in DFW), my black car was still covered by a layer of it though.

 

The above must've been like how the Dust Bowl was, and I can assure you it's not good for your health as I've heard stories of people literally dying from this shit back then. Does anyone up here publicly discuss the role climate change is playing out in all this? Fuck no, even if it is destroying the cotton crop that so many in the region are reliant upon. Why's that? Because fucking oil brings even more cash to West Texas.

Anyway, if you're interested in reading what all this is doing to West Texas and skyrocketing cotton prices, look no further than this excellent article from the NYTimes from last week. I'm using one of my 10 free shares per month so that you can check out all the wonderful photos.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/18/climate/climate-change-cotton-tampons.html?unlocked_article_code=oRhTQ87QeyiNCLmYU1Ez1CFlyNTCwOSMAJQQANyWCg8APuOU6DY-QJMB7ZKeM_1kyixFtBC9_q7l9UP7Evcof_gB7st8iwgh5mpRLdFU22yUIYcWuuDENxy-Dk8DkY1c0xM4fXGmX__8aqh4RtKL3HSpwvoUjFRRFznAmwu7i_znxtB6Bt5wi_TQZWTBSN11PjGK7rea2Ds0DaQr-R07kORt15pLfEZAFUAIRND1gHFH1_w2cSgLnXSmg_FL4f8OLkBN6q5wCbMxP0QUnZZkxmm3OboMAyoyeR43b3937bD48284Uz7bBXHWXtXNBjcSlYy7Hre53viH3dsr_WVWyF4BR5yVqHA&smid=url-share

And, below, are a couple I took within 5 minutes of each other last month from behind the house as a haboob was closing in. This particular one is the worst I've ever seen here.

 

[bolverk 29399]

20 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I like to ask people what the nature of their denial is. Do they think that greenhouse gases don’t have the property of trapping heat? Do they think the global mean temperature isn’t rising? That it’s a hoax? Do they think it’s rising but that humans aren’t causing it? Do they think that humans are causing it but it’s not harmful? Or maybe it’s actually a good thing? Which is it?

Because they don’t know. Science has one position. Humans are pumping massive quantities of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and its having the expected result of trapping more heat and warming the planet. That’s what drives climate change. Climate is a chaotic system and the energy that powers it is heat. We are seeing what we expect to see in terms of warmer average temperatures and more frequent and more extreme weather events. The oceans are rising, glaciers are disappearing, corals are dying, natural habitats are migrating, etc.

Deniers, otoh, don’t take a scientific approach. They approach it like lawyers, which some of them are, just trying to create reasonable doubt. They’re not trying to offer an explanation. They’re suggesting all of those alternatives to the position of science. Anything to prevent legislation that would affect the bottom lines of the industries who are paying them to sow doubt. So the people who deny the scientific consensus don’t have a fixed idea of what their alternate reality is. They just know that they vote Republican and as a Republican it’s their policy that they don’t believe in global warming.

 

They also take the position that you're a pussy if you complain about the heat (Texas in general) or the sandstorms (West Texas in particular), because "what do you expect?" It's Texas/West Texas, "it's always gotten hot in Austin" or "we've always had occasional dust storms in West Texas"?

Well, yeah, no shit, but not. like. this.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

34 minutes ago, bolverk said:

They also take the position that you're a pussy if you complain about the heat (Texas in general) or the sandstorms (West Texas in particular), because "what do you expect?" It's Texas/West Texas, "it's always gotten hot in Austin" or "we've always had occasional dust storms in West Texas"?

Well, yeah, no shit, but not. like. this.

I heard an interesting factoid yesterday. This is the first February in recorded history that Columbus, OH has received no measurable snowfall. Some flakes have fallen but not enough to collect. We’ve had days with highs in the 60s and even 70’s. White Christmases have already been less common in this part of the country than they were when I was a child or even when I was in school. But this is new.

Meanwhile, speaking of chaos, L.A. had a blizzard. We all remember Texas getting hit with the deep freeze recently that knocked out the power grid. Whenever there’s some freak cold weather event, someone on the right usually sticks up their head to make a wisecrack about “Where’s the global warming?” because they don’t know the difference between weather and climate. Or because they think global warming must mean that the planet won’t tilt on its axis and there won’t still be winter. Morons.

To help remind them that it’s global warming and factors in the temperature all over the planet all year long, I like to keep a link handy for the weather in Birdsville, Australia. Whenever it’s cold here, it always seems to be hot there.

https://weather.com/weather/today/l/c33e5ccb75b0c69722a2cee8c735a5dcf292c9c7a63a61fdc7cafcda56a02d4e

 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

9 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Do they think that humans are causing it but it’s not harmful?

I think this is where the in-laws are.  Or rather, they admit humans are causing it, but they are afraid of change so there's nothing we can do.  Incidentally, they may be right at this point, but they are also not willing to entertain the idea that it's going to radically change everything.  They honestly won't be here after the next 20-30 years anyway, so they just don't have to worry about it.  Heads in the sand.

[fattyflattie 4636]

19 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think this is where the in-laws are.  Or rather, they admit humans are causing it, but they are afraid of change so there's nothing we can do.  Incidentally, they may be right at this point, but they are also not willing to entertain the idea that it's going to radically change everything.  They honestly won't be here after the next 20-30 years anyway, so they just don't have to worry about it.  Heads in the sand.

This gets my vote. People very much understand, they just don’t care enough deviate from their current lifestyle.  Not for something that will be moot to them in 20-40 years, anyhow.  Of course my view is from people who make their living by helping along the problem, so it’s got its own particular slant. 

[RomaVicta 29786]

11 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Bill Clinton was definitely brought up. Thankfully the conversation shifted pretty quickly, but it became apparent really quickly that no one knew anything about what they were saying. With climate change, it literally devolved into them just spitting out Fox News buzzwords. Not even complete sentences. Just “gas stoves!” and “electric cars!” 
 

Broken people. 

You'll have to cut back on hamburger consumption and switch from your gas stove in order to give your grandchildren even a chance of avoiding cataclysm. 

No. I like hamburgers. I'm going to get a gas stove before they outlaw them. This is just the media trying to control your life. I heard that from the only true voice in media. Everything will be fine because we're the greatest country in the world and do everything right. Get your socialism out of here.

[Biff Tannen 45494]

I really am just going to start sincerely asking them where they hear this stuff, as if I'm truly intrigued.  I just want them to admit it's fox news, since they swear they don't watch it.

[Willfully Horn 7913]

Filthy pig fucking boot lickers.

 

[BevoAbyss 2057]

21 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

cataclysm.

Spot on, that's the right word for it. The term "climate change" is far too insufficient to describe what we are doing to the Earth's ecosystems. Climate cataclysm is far more accurate. It's not just C02 emissions in the air. 

Humans are disrupting life in the oceans.

— Coral reefs are bleaching due to ocean acidification from C02 entering the ocean via acid rainfall. Thus, humans are disrupting the food systems of the oceans at the basic level. 

— With our trash, humans are polluting and plasticizing the rivers and oceans of the world. Plastic is now in the fish of the oceans and seafood we eat.

We are disrupting life on the land.

— With sprawl and endless consumption/pollution, humans are eroding biodiversity and destroying nature around the planet: forests, wetlands, water tables, the list goes on.

— Humanity is likely effecting a 6th mass extinction event. 

Amidst it all, the mighty little humans sit in the narcissistic glow of our screens all day and electric light bubbles all night. When not breeding, shopping, and worshipping celebs/jocks/billionaires, most humans are waging verbal war or violent war against each other all across the globe. Almost always in the name of national borders, cultural purity, and imaginary Gods. Sooner or later, those nukes will get used, unless ideologies and philosophies coalesce around a shared destiny on this planet. That was the great hope of Earth Day.

Meanwhile, the Voyager space probe will still be traversing the Milky Way and the Webb telescope will be peering into deep space and perhaps sending the pics down to a few survivors of a mostly failed species. All despite the proliferating wonders and lessons of the sciences—medical, biological, geological, astronomical—which show us to be a tiny, but brainy and curious species, the product of billions of years of cosmic evolution. Too bad, our species is too damn narcissistic to get the big picture. Darwin was right. 

TLDR. Some of those Hollywood future dystopias got it essentially right.

Edited March 1, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[Biff Tannen 45494]

Cross posting from DT.  

 

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/02/solv-energy-breaks-ground-solar-peaker-plant-california/

Quote

Arevon Energy and San Diego Community Power broke ground on the Vikings Energy Farm, a solar + storage power plant in Holtville, California. The project was first announced in May 2021.

The Vikings Energy Farm is among the first solar peaker plants in the United States. The facility’s unique 1:1 configuration — 137 MW of solar, coupled with 150 MW/600 MWh of battery energy storage — will allow it to shift daytime solar production to late afternoon and evening hours, providing on-peak energy whenever necessary. The Vikings Energy Farm will feature the Tesla Megapack for battery energy storage and First Solar thin-film solar modules.

Vikings Energy Farm is being constructed by SOLV Energy, which has done work throughout the Imperial Valley. Work will be performed by union labor from Operating Engineers Local 12, the Southwest Regional Council of Carpenters, Southern California District Council of Laborers and its affiliated Local Union 1184, IBEW Local 569 and Ironworkers Local 229. When completed, the project will power tens of thousands of homes.

“Arevon is proud to bring the Vikings Energy Farm to Imperial Valley. We’re especially excited about the unique design, which provides a storage component that is as powerful as our ability to generate solar energy,” said Justin Johnson, Arevon’s chief operating officer. “This unique design, an extension of our on-going commitment to leading-edge technologies, will allow the facility to provide energy whenever necessary, helping to stabilize the grid, and benefiting everyone in this community, and across the state of California.”

Among Arevon’s commitments to the local community are: annual scholarships awarded to Holtville High School students pursuing higher education; sponsorship of the 2023 Holtville Carrot Festival; and a commitment to using local union labor for construction. The Vikings Energy Farm is contracted to provide resource adequacy and renewable energy to San Diego Community Power, helping to meet peak summer demand and support grid reliability.

 

[elfenix 34171]

Quote

The solar farm went online in December with 640,000 panels, capable of producing 250 megawatts of renewable energy for the Texas power grid, enough to power 50,000 homes during peak power use times. Engie will soon complete a 100 MW battery system to store some of that power for when it is most needed.

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/giant-solar-project-transforms-landscape-in-southern-hill-county/article_70244f12-b899-11ed-ab15-47e393426861.html

[RomaVicta 29786]

Another example of the socialists turning Texas into (ugh) California. Should've spent the money reinforcing the Texas Guard who are so brilliantly impacting the drug and child slavery trades.

We need more brave men like these manning the gunboats!

[elfenix 34171]

would cost tax/ratepayers less money to buy coal mines, shutter them, and build new renewable generation than to mine coal, burn it, and capture the emissions:

Quote

Based on the average profitability of U.S. coal mines over the past ten years and assuming a coal mine could be purchased at a price that would reflect a multiple of 5-10 times its profit, a buyer who purchased and closed the mine would permanently sequester carbon at a price of less than $3-6 per ton, a fraction of the cost to remove that carbon with direct air capture.

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/3884019-want-to-save-the-climate-buy-a-coal-mine/

 

(yes, produced coal costs more than that, but that's produced)

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Well…

Quote

 

The Biden administration has approved the massive Willow oil drilling project in Alaska, angering climate advocates and setting the stage for a court challenge.

The Willow Project is a decadeslong oil drilling venture in the National Petroleum Reserve, which is owned by the federal government. The area where the project is planned holds up to 600 million barrels of oil, though that oil would take years to reach the market since the project has yet to be constructed.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/13/politics/willow-project-alaska-oil-biden-approval-climate/index.html#:~:text=The Biden administration has approved,owned by the federal government.

Edited March 13, 2023 by MC Fresh Breath

[Biff Tannen 45494]

Well indeed.  Fuck em all.

[elfenix 34171]

kinda feels like "we'll let you do this hideously expensive thing if you find someone dumb enough to lend you the money"

 

also note that's all of 6 days  of worldwide oil consumption.  projected 180,000 barrels a day of production on US consumption of ~20 million barrels a day. 

[brakeman 28243]

 

[brakeman 28243]

 

[Willfully Horn 7913]

Good on Ms Porter. Both for standing up for her principles and for demonstrating the difference between Democrats and the cult.

 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

Holy shit look at Radiohead's lyrics from 2000.

 

 

 

Who's in a bunker? Who's in a bunker?
Women and children first
And the children first, and the children
I'll laugh until my head comes off
I'll swallow 'til I burst
Until I burst, until I

Who's in a bunker? Who's in a bunker?
I have seen too much
I haven't seen enough, you haven't seen it
I'll laugh until my head comes off
Women and children first
And children first, and children

Here I'm alive
Everything all of the time
Here I'm alive
Everything all of the time

Ice Age coming, Ice Age coming
Let me hear both sides
Let me hear both sides, let me hear both
Ice Age coming, Ice Age coming
Throw it in the fire
Throw it in the fire, throw it on the

We're not scaremongering
This is really happening, happening
We're not scaremongering
This is really happening, happening
Mobiles skwerking, mobiles chirping
Take the money and run
Take our money and run, take our money

Here I'm alive
Everything all of the time
Here I'm alive
Everything all of the time
Here I'm alive
Everything all of the time
Here I'm alive
Everything all of the time

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

Listen to Spirit from 1970.

 

[troph 24562]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:22 PM, brakeman said:

 

I’m happy and conflicted. Same goes here. Someone asked me about lake Travis and it filling up, I said unfortunately it’s so low it will take a massive flood event which inevitably means people die. Our reservoirs are so taxed and depleted it takes human sacrifice to fill them.

[4th&Five 41461]

 

[nbmishoid 940]

13 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Listen to Spirit from 1970.

 

One of my all time favorite albums.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

2 hours ago, nbmishoid said:

One of my all time favorite albums.

Mine too. It’s brilliant from start to finish. 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

All good y'all

 

https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/greenhouse-gases-continued-to-increase-rapidly-in-2022

Quote

Levels of carbon dioxide (CO2), methane and nitrous oxide, the three greenhouse gases emitted by human activity that are the most significant contributors to climate change, continued their historically high rates of growth in the atmosphere during 2022, according to NOAA scientists. 

The global surface average for CO2 rose by 2.13 parts per million (ppm) to 417.06 ppm, roughly the same rate observed during the last decade. Atmospheric CO2 is now 50% higher than pre-industrial levels. 2022 was the 11th consecutive year CO2 increased by more than 2 ppm, the highest sustained rate of CO2 increases in the 65 years since monitoring began. Prior to 2013, three consecutive years of CO2  growth of 2 ppm or more had never been recorded. 

 

[RomaVicta 29786]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:20 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

I heard an interesting factoid yesterday. This is the first February in recorded history that Columbus, OH has received no measurable snowfall. Some flakes have fallen but not enough to collect. We’ve had days with highs in the 60s and even 70’s. White Christmases have already been less common in this part of the country than they were when I was a child or even when I was in school. But this is new.

Meanwhile, speaking of chaos, L.A. had a blizzard. We all remember Texas getting hit with the deep freeze recently that knocked out the power grid. Whenever there’s some freak cold weather event, someone on the right usually sticks up their head to make a wisecrack about “Where’s the global warming?” because they don’t know the difference between weather and climate. Or because they think global warming must mean that the planet won’t tilt on its axis and there won’t still be winter. Morons.

To help remind them that it’s global warming and factors in the temperature all over the planet all year long, I like to keep a link handy for the weather in Birdsville, Australia. Whenever it’s cold here, it always seems to be hot there.

https://weather.com/weather/today/l/c33e5ccb75b0c69722a2cee8c735a5dcf292c9c7a63a61fdc7cafcda56a02d4e

 

That's a little too on the nose, don't you think?

[RomaVicta 29786]

On 3/26/2023 at 8:41 AM, troph said:

I’m happy and conflicted. Same goes here. Someone asked me about lake Travis and it filling up, I said unfortunately it’s so low it will take a massive flood event which inevitably means people die. Our reservoirs are so taxed and depleted it takes human sacrifice to fill them.

That's a small price to pay to avert a St Augustine grass holocaust!

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

25 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

That's a little too on the nose, don't you think?

Lol. I totally missed that. 

[bolverk 29399]

Study indicates sea level in the Gulf of Mexico has risen 5 inches since 2010, a record rate of acceleration.

 

No paywall article: https://archive.ph/cxT3q

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20344]

The temperature of the ocean's surface has broken every record since satellite measurements began in the 1980s. It's gonna be a helluva summer ---- and next summer will probably be worse.

https://www.livescience.com/ocean-surface-temperature-record

Edited April 16, 2023 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Neonmoon 38127]

[Mullet Free 40]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

4 hours ago, Mullet Free said:

 

Really? 10%, huh? What are we supposed to take from that? What was your motivation to tell us that rice contributes 10% of methane emissions? Why didn’t you break down methane emissions across all sectors? What about energy? How much is produced there? How about livestock? What percentage of methane emissions do our massive feed lots where we raise our cattle contribute? How much methane do we expect to be released as the permafrost melts? Which countries emit the most methane, which countries emit the least? Which countries are doing the best job at methane abatement, which are doing the worst? What is the Global Methane Pledge and what countries have made a commitment to it?

Emissions are a big complex problem and of course every source needs to be addressed. But why did you feel it important to address specifically the 10% contributed by rice production, and only the 10% contributed by rice production? What relevance does that sliver of information offer us when considered in the absence of any other context?

[Neonmoon 38127]

I’f you actually watch the video, Rice isn’t to blame, the lazy practice of burning the hay from the rice fields causes methane emissions. 

[troph 24562]

We were on the lake last night wearing sweatshirts and I was thinking how summer is now a war zone not a vacation. We have to find our enjoyment in the other times of year because summer is a physical and mental health hellscape.

[hookem2010 2600]

I fucking dread summer

[Biff Tannen 45494]

Gonna be fun guys.

[Mullet Free 40]

 

[hookem2010 2600]

As I sit here getting kind of drunk as the storm rolls through, I think how crazy it is that we could be decades ahead on sustainable energy, with essentially all the comforts we currently enjoy, while maintaining some semblance of a natural planet, had a few hundred politicians and rich assholes taken this shit seriously 30 years ago.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

On 4/18/2023 at 7:25 AM, Mullet Free said:

 

Let me guess. You think Joe Biden is coming for your gas stove, don’t you?

[High Plains Drifter 10977]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:09 PM, troph said:

We were on the lake last night wearing sweatshirts and I was thinking how summer is now a war zone not a vacation. We have to find our enjoyment in the other times of year because summer is a physical and mental health hellscape.

 

We are going to have to become nocturnal animals to be able to do anything during the summers.

 

[troph 24562]

19 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

We are going to have to become nocturnal animals to be able to do anything during the summers.

 

We don’t go out on the lake in the summers until 6pm. Sometimes 7pm. It doesn’t get amazing until 7:30-8pm and that’s with a lake breeze and a body of water to cool the micro-climate down a few extra degrees (opposite of concrete jungle effect).  Last year it was so hot it didn’t get to that mid 80s temp until closer to 9-9:30pm and it was super distressing to even be out there with temps on the water at 98-99 at sunset. 

[brakeman 28243]

 

[Willfully Horn 7913]

While it is nice to hear good news, it is also somewhat depressing that we are at the point we have to engineer fixes to the damage we have wrought.

Quote

Engineers at the University of British Columbia have developed a filtration system that would permanently remove "forever chemicals" from drinking water. This news comes after a recent study revealed nearly 200 million Americans have been exposed to PFAS in their tap water. Dr. Madjid Mohseni, a professor at British Columbia, shares his research. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/engineers-develop-water-filtration-system-that-removes-forever-chemicals-171419717913

[Mullet Free 40]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:24 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Let me guess. You think Joe Biden is coming for your gas stove, don’t you?

NY starting in 2026