The Climate thread

[wild_turkey 3221]

And also, how much energy gets used in the production of a new aluminum can, as well as energy needed to recycle a used can?

[Bookman 4725]

How much plastic does the average person shit every day?

[Biff Tannen 45763]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

The question is how much of recycled materials actually get recycled.

https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2023-04-18/how-much-of-the-stuff-we-put-in-the-blue-bin-in-austin-is-actually-recycled

Edited September 27, 2023 by Biff Tannen

[hookem2010 2645]

Would be cool if maintaining a livable planet was considered as valuable as insuring someone can turn a profit for any green initiatives.

[elfenix 34385]

And also, how much energy gets used in the production of a new aluminum can, as well as energy needed to recycle a used can?

Aluminum is very energy intensive to produce. Recycling takes about 5% of the energy.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/energy-and-the-environment/recycling-and-energy.php#:~:text=Recycling%20saves%20energy%20and%20other%20resources&text=For%20example%2C%20using%20recycled%20aluminum,material%20aluminum%20is%20made%20from.

[brakeman 28510]

Each litre (0.26 gallon) of cloud water tested contained between 6.7 to 13.9 pieces of the plastics.

 

[Biff Tannen 45763]

15 minutes ago, brakeman said:

Each litre (0.26 gallon) of cloud water tested contained between 6.7 to 13.9 pieces of the plastics.

 

This is the shit I’m talking about. Maybe this does nothing, but who knows. Climate change is going to make us confront issues we can’t imagine. 

[brakeman 28510]

Fucked, we are.

[Bozo_Casanova 26681]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:13 PM, brakeman said:

Each litre (0.26 gallon) of cloud water tested contained between 6.7 to 13.9 pieces of the plastics.

 

Wait until the Japanese start looking for concrete 

[Brisketexan 105572]

Wait until the Japanese start looking for concrete 

They’ll just blur it out of the picture. Problem solved.

[WhatTheBuck 28830]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:21 PM, elfenix said:

Aluminum is very energy intensive to produce. Recycling takes about 5% of the energy.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/energy-and-the-environment/recycling-and-energy.php#:~:text=Recycling%20saves%20energy%20and%20other%20resources&text=For%20example%2C%20using%20recycled%20aluminum,material%20aluminum%20is%20made%20from.

I noticed in my grocery store that Reynolds offers regular and recycled aluminum foil. Recycled costs the same, $4.99, as regular for 75 sq ft.

Edited October 1, 2023 by WhatTheBuck

[RomaVicta 30072]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:29 PM, Biff Tannen said:

This is the shit I’m talking about. Maybe this does nothing, but who knows. Climate change is going to make us confront issues we can’t imagine. 

It's become evident that the variables in what's coming with climate change make it too complicated for science to predict more than a fraction of the impact. 

Scientists are baffled by the diminished sea ice around Antarctica. That continent has also displayed temperature variations that are world records of increase in average temperature. Scientists guess it has to do with a change in direction of the wind. (Both of these stories I read in the NYT)

The impact of wildfire smoke, the melting of the permafrost, and the undermining of a massive glacier on Antarctica are all things, as far as I can tell, were not anticipated by science. This isn't a failure of science; it's a statement about just how unknown our future is.

One thing that should change is the way we refer to this catastrophic warming. "Climate change" doesn't at all capture what we're looking at. Climate Cataclysm is far more accurate. Sadly, we have to rely on journalists to adopt something new. 

This story should be covered as thought there is a giant army massing at our border with every intention of attacking us. Climate Cataclysm and the Threat to the Republic are the stories of the day. They're so big, editorial staffs can't get their minds around them.

It's just easier to speculate about the presidential horserace (that isn't actually a horse race unless you cover it like one) or some other recurring story that involves minimal fresh thought.

[elfenix 34385]

In an unlikely country, Uruguay, a particle physicist figured out how to convert energy grids to renewable energy. We tell the story of how he did it.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1203733046/a-uruguayan-physicist-cracked-a-major-code-for-renewable-energy


Think I caught the end of this this afternoon

[WhatTheBuck 28830]

9 hours ago, elfenix said:

In an unlikely country, Uruguay, a particle physicist figured out how to convert energy grids to renewable energy. We tell the story of how he did it.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1203733046/a-uruguayan-physicist-cracked-a-major-code-for-renewable-energy

Think I caught the end of this this afternoon

“And other governments have followed suit. His model for getting private companies to set up renewable energy infrastructure by guaranteeing long-term contracts is now used all over the world. Today, when you drive through the Uruguayan countryside, you don't see tankers of gas, train loads of coal, power plants spewing black smoke into the air. What you do see? Hundreds of turbines harnessing the power of the wind.”

Their cancer problem must be off the charts. 

[RomaVicta 30072]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

“And other governments have followed suit. His model for getting private companies to set up renewable energy infrastructure by guaranteeing long-term contracts is now used all over the world. Today, when you drive through the Uruguayan countryside, you don't see tankers of gas, train loads of coal, power plants spewing black smoke into the air. What you do see? Hundreds of turbines harnessing the power of the wind.”

Their cancer problem must be off the charts. 

Not to mention how often they can't watch TV because there's no wind. 

And, my God!, the secondary damage to ratings!

[brakeman 28510]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:59 AM, Bookman said:

How much plastic does the average person shit every day?

"Every single person out of the group of 8 had microplastics in their stool, on average about 20 particles for every 3.5 ounces of stool"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plastic-in-poop-study-microplastics-in-stool-raises-concerns/

 

[brakeman 28510]

Not really totally climate driven but, WTF.

[Bookman 4725]

2 hours ago, brakeman said:

"Every single person out of the group of 8 had microplastics in their stool, on average about 20 particles for every 3.5 ounces of stool"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plastic-in-poop-study-microplastics-in-stool-raises-concerns/

 

Microplastics are in the fucking clouds. https://e360.yale.edu/digest/clouds-microplastics-climate

[troph 24928]

2 hours ago, Bookman said:

Microplastics are in the fucking clouds. https://e360.yale.edu/digest/clouds-microplastics-climate

I saw that, so much for our rain water collection system. Fuck me. Fuck all of us. Fuck all of us right to hell so god can start all over. 

[InkaUtexas 26354]

6 hours ago, brakeman said:

Not really totally climate driven but, WTF.

1- Water control systems. 

2- Shitty plumbing. 

Ever hear of Flint, Michigan or the current issues with Camp LeJeune, NC? 

Technically you can drink water is more places, but it is not recommended. Even in Dubai we bought drinking water. Would use the regular water for brushing teeth and showers. One day in Peru opened the tap and orange sludge came out. 

Water quality around the world sucks. Austin has how many boil notices a year? 

[InkaUtexas 26354]

2 hours ago, troph said:

I saw that, so much for our rain water collection system. Fuck me. Fuck all of us. Fuck all of us right to hell so god can start all over. 

Got a buddy in Kenya and we are playing with Water Hyacinth to clean up rain water collection. he collects it from the lakes where it is a real problem. Idea was how to reuse it.  Studies are young, but looking ok. Problem is if it is pulling micro plastics out of the water, or roof material, then we cannot use it for chicken feed or compost material. The other option is use it as biofuel so that means we are burning micro plastics. 

FUCKITY FUCK FUCK. 

[RomaVicta 30072]

14 hours ago, brakeman said:

"Every single person out of the group of 8 had microplastics in their stool, on average about 20 particles for every 3.5 ounces of stool"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plastic-in-poop-study-microplastics-in-stool-raises-concerns/

 

I would not want to be the scientist searching for and counting the 20 particles.

[BevoAbyss 2090]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:33 PM, RomaVicta said:

One thing that should change is the way we refer to this catastrophic warming. "Climate change" doesn't at all capture what we're looking at. Climate Cataclysm is far more accurate.

100% spot-on Roma.

Climate change is FAR too inadequate to describe the destruction being wrought. Climate cataclysm ... climate catastrophe ... eco apocalypse, etc.  And it is not just "global warming."

-- We have plastic inside our bodies, in landfills, lakes, rivers, oceans, and now in the freaking clouds. 

-- More than 100 million pieces of space junk are orbiting our planet.

-- SpaceX is launching 40,000 low orbit telecom satellites, which reflect light back to Earth, thus interfering with astronomy and gazing at the Milky Way. While at the UT-McDonald Observatory, I saw some SpaceX satellites launched from California. Cutting right through the night sky. Musk ain't no visionary.

-- Many other firms from around the world are planning on launching tens of thousands of similar low orbit light polluters. Imagine thousands of constellations of satellites marching in all directions across the night skies. 

-- We are effecting a 6th extinction event as development invades all eco-systems on Earth.

-- Our civilizational detritus is already turning into fossils. We are transforming all the ecosystems on Earth.

-- Scientists call this a new epoch: The Anthropocene.

Botton line:

Humanity's cosmic narcissism --- believing we are the center of all value, meaning, and purpose --- is encasing our planet in junk and pollution, all while pretending to be a mighty species. Meanwhile billions still believe an imaginary God has their back and ordained them to trash and rule our tiny speck of a planet and solar system hurtling through the Milky Way at 492,000 mph for billions of years.

Any enlightened ETs would totally avoid our mess. A complete cosmic laughingstock (except for our greatest art and science).

Rant//Over.

Edited October 7, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[RomaVicta 30072]

2 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

-- SpaceX is launching 40,000 low orbit telecom satellites, which reflect light back to Earth, thus interfering with astronomy and gazing at the Milky Way. While at the UT-McDonald Observatory, I saw some SpaceX satellites launched from California. Cutting right through the night sky. Musk ain't no visionary.

Couldn't agree more with your post, BevoAbyss. I pick the detail above because ignoring the charm and beauty of the dark night sky sorta suggests where all of these problems found root. 

It would be so easy to put shades on street lights and giant parking lot lights so that they only cast their light downwards and not up to veil the view of the stars. Hell, the parking lot lights could just be turned off after closing.

We've moved to the country just north of Johnson City. Some of the women of the area have addressed the tiny local government about the needlessly bright lights in a few locations. There're maybe 25 altogether. Preserve the night sky!

The mayor at the time just dismissed the idea with, "I like bright lights!" Just scorn for the idea that something so simple as preserving the night sky.

This is the political forum, and I'll point once again to the GOP hate engine. Recall that Nixon signed environmental laws that received largely, as I recall, bi-partisan support. Why should there be resistance to cleaning the rivers and air? 

The hate engine gives us the notion of "environmental wackos" who tread on the sacred rights of industry to do whatever they please. Industry is capitalism. Capitalism is what the Founding Fathers founded with the Declaration of Capitalism and Constitution of the Holy Order of the Market. 

Now, there is knee-jerk objection to anything suggesting the environment deserves priority or that doing things just a little differently could add some beauty to our world.

So, why give up plastic? Why consider cutting back on beef? Why not keep buying giant vehicles that you don't need? Why change anything in this perfect world created by the greatest country that ever existed peopled by the best people ever?

Not even one simple thing like preserving the night sky will be considered.

[BevoAbyss 2090]

18 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Not even one simple thing like preserving the night sky will be considered.

Agree with your post. That said, there is a great thing that happened in the Big Bend area.

-- The "Greater Big Bend International Dark Sky Reserve" was certified last year by the International Dark Sky Association. Largest dark sky reserve in the world, by far! 15,000 square miles of Texas and Mexico.

-- Pioneered by UT's own McDonald Observatory and the Big Bend National Park, along with dark sky enthusiasts in Mexico and other smaller organizations in the area (Big Bend Conservation Alliance).

-- As you can see, the Reserve spans into Mexico, thus providing a totally different model for the Texas-Mexico border. Imagine, an eco-model for the border, protecting the one thing we all share: the night skies, site of humanity's true origins and destiny.

-- The Reserve was absolutely needed because the Observatory would be rendered useless by the light pollution coming from the northeast, as seen in the other image. That's light pollution from the Permian fracking fields, which run 24/7 and the energy companies/workers and 99% pof citizens in the big cities don't give a crap about light pollution. Yep, it is those fracking fields which send billion$ to UT-Austin.,

-- The Greater Big Bend International Dark Sky Reserve is truly an incredible accomplishment. 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[WhatTheBuck 28830]

20 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Now, there is knee-jerk objection to anything suggesting the environment deserves priority or that doing things just a little differently could add some beauty to our world.

For example, see George HW Bush back on Oct 29, 1992 referring to Al Gore as “Ozone Man” and threatening that “we’ll be up to our neck in owls and out of work for every American!” (nice sentence structure there, George) if we listen to him.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4766150/user-clip-ozone-man

[hookem2010 2645]

Speaking of light pollution...

Bird window strikes in Chicago

How hard is it for businesses to turn off their lights when closed, at least during migration, but really all the time?

Edited October 10, 2023 by hookem2010
Wrong link

[Biff Tannen 45763]

2 hours ago, hookem2010 said:

Speaking of light pollution...

Bird window strikes in Chicago

How hard is it for businesses to turn off their lights when closed, at least during migration, but really all the time?

Or when there isn’t enough power during cold/hot spells because your electric grid sucks and is being sucked dry by bitcoin miners?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13540]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:49 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

For example, see George HW Bush back on Oct 29, 1992 referring to Al Gore as “Ozone Man” and threatening that “we’ll be up to our neck in owls and out of work for every American!” (nice sentence structure there, George) if we listen to him.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4766150/user-clip-ozone-man

They can never point to a person being out of common sense work due to climate change laws. I assume the guy that used to dump chemical barrels in the ocean struggles to find work in America but is anyone actually complaining about that?

[brakeman 28510]

 

[brakeman 28510]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:33 PM, RomaVicta said:

It's become evident that the variables in what's coming with climate change make it too complicated for science to predict more than a fraction of the impact. 

Scientists are baffled by the diminished sea ice around Antarctica. That continent has also displayed temperature variations that are world records of increase in average temperature. Scientists guess it has to do with a change in direction of the wind. (Both of these stories I read in the NYT)

The impact of wildfire smoke, the melting of the permafrost, and the undermining of a massive glacier on Antarctica are all things, as far as I can tell, were not anticipated by science. This isn't a failure of science; it's a statement about just how unknown our future is.

One thing that should change is the way we refer to this catastrophic warming. "Climate change" doesn't at all capture what we're looking at. Climate Cataclysm is far more accurate. Sadly, we have to rely on journalists to adopt something new. 

This story should be covered as thought there is a giant army massing at our border with every intention of attacking us. Climate Cataclysm and the Threat to the Republic are the stories of the day. They're so big, editorial staffs can't get their minds around them.

It's just easier to speculate about the presidential horserace (that isn't actually a horse race unless you cover it like one) or some other recurring story that involves minimal fresh thought.

This story should be covered as thought, there is a giant army massing at our earth with every intention of attacking our earth. Climate Cataclysm and the Threat to our earth are the stories of the day. They're so big, editorial staffs will not care to get their minds around them.

[troph 24928]

5 hours ago, brakeman said:

 

I follow them and 4ocean on insta and a few others like them. The pollution is infuriating but the fact we are doing something about it is great I love those organizations 

Edited October 20, 2023 by troph

[elfenix 34385]

"The Kauaʻi ʻōʻō bird has a black body and yellow leg feathers. It went extinct in 1987, but a mournful call from the last-living bird has resurfaced amid an announcement from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service."

https://www.newsweek.com/scientist-captures-birds-final-song-before-extinction-1837026

[hookem2010 2645]

Hawaiian birds have, and continue to be totally fucked, unfortunately.

[hookem2010 2645]

It really is haunting to hear the very last bird of a species sing a forever unanswered song.

[troph 24928]

2 hours ago, hookem2010 said:

It really is haunting to hear the very last bird of a species sing a forever unanswered song.

I can’t deal with this. Ugghhh.  I’m at the point now that I believe we are only unique in our ability to turbo fuck the planet and that all species have an equal right to co-exist and we simply ignore that. We conflate our apex level power and intelligence for having lone sentience and even a minimal level of consciousness. I believe that to be simply untrue. Fuck all of us. 

[locodos 5424]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

I can’t deal with this. Ugghhh.  I’m at the point now that I believe we are only unique in our ability to turbo fuck the planet and that all species have an equal right to co-exist and we simply ignore that. We conflate our apex level power and intelligence for having lone sentience and even a minimal level of consciousness. I believe that to be simply untrue. Fuck all of us. 

Counter point: Fuck mosquitos

[troph 24928]

1 hour ago, locodos said:

Counter point: Fuck mosquitos

[hookem2010 2645]

On topic, as mosquitoes carrying avian flu, which can now reach higher elevations due to climate change, is one of the primary drivers for the existential crisis facing Hawaiian birds.

[Biff Tannen 45763]

3 hours ago, troph said:

I can’t deal with this. Ugghhh.  I’m at the point now that I believe we are only unique in our ability to turbo fuck the planet and that all species have an equal right to co-exist and we simply ignore that. We conflate our apex level power and intelligence for having lone sentience and even a minimal level of consciousness. I believe that to be simply untrue. Fuck all of us. 

Go watch the new Ken Burns doc The American Buffalo.  It is sad, but sobering.  We can change things for the better if we really want to.

[mchookem 16519]

well this page is super sad ☹️💔

[hookem2010 2645]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:48 AM, hookem2010 said:

On topic, as mosquitoes carrying avian flu, which can now reach higher elevations due to climate change, is one of the primary drivers for the existential crisis facing Hawaiian birds.

Just learned that approval has finally been given to introduce mosquitoes that produce sterile offspring this fall, so perhaps this will provide some of the native birds a last-ditch lifeline. They definitely need it.

[jimmyjazz 46475]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:32 AM, hookem2010 said:

Hawaiian birds have, and continue to be totally fucked, unfortunately.

Tangent:  my wife and I went to the Grand Hyatt north of Lahaina (RIP) for our 10th anniversary.  Their indoor/outdoor lobby housed a family of penguins.  Warm weather penguins.  Weird.

[brakeman 28510]

[Gap03 3345]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:51 AM, troph said:

I can’t deal with this. Ugghhh.  I’m at the point now that I believe we are only unique in our ability to turbo fuck the planet and that all species have an equal right to co-exist and we simply ignore that. We conflate our apex level power and intelligence for having lone sentience and even a minimal level of consciousness. I believe that to be simply untrue. Fuck all of us. 

You remember all of those sci-fi movies where the aliens come to Earth like a plague to harvest all of its resources and then move on to the next planet ("V" et al)?  Can you imagine if humans managed to master interstellar travel?   Yeah, I can ...

[elfenix 34385]

Oil and gas production in Texas is spewing out double the rate of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, than in the more regulated state of New Mexico, new satellite data shared with the Guardian shows, prompting calls for tougher curbs of “super-emitter” sites that risk tipping the world into climate breakdown.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/08/texas-methane-oil-and-gas-study-climate

[Biff Tannen 45763]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Oil and gas production in Texas is spewing out double the rate of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, than in the more regulated state of New Mexico, new satellite data shared with the Guardian shows, prompting calls for tougher curbs of “super-emitter” sites that risk tipping the world into climate breakdown.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/08/texas-methane-oil-and-gas-study-climate

Take a drive through west texas and it’s just flares as far as the eye can see. We literally are pumping so much fossil fuel out of the ground we just have to burn some of it off. Future generations should be aghast at our stupidity. 

[RomaVicta 30072]

From the corporations, not a word about the future. They make their case in the now. Their paid "scientists" are no longer enough to generate general doubt about what the future holds, so the fat shameless oligarchs won't talk about it. It's bad for business.

Energy security? Maybe reduce reliance on petroleum. Maybe build nuclear plants and take the smart bet that if some of them meltdown, that's better than burning carbons.

Reliabililty? What the fuck is that? Addiction enabled by the selfish is more like it.

Consumer cost? That's where the knife goes in. Joe American wants a ride as free as he can get it. Priority One. 

The future they sponsor with their greed:

Absolutely great movie.

[elfenix 34385]

Nixon had an energy security plan which St. Ronald abandoned in favor of fossil carbon. Obama basically adopted Nixon's plan and the oil bros. lost their shit.



Meanwhile, in China:

"
Beijing first committed to reducing its methane output at Cop26 in Glasgow in 2021, as part of a joint agreement with the US. But for two years the reduction plan failed to materialise. Its publication on Tuesday, as the US and Chinese climate envoys wrapped up four days of talks in Sunnylands, California, signalled that the two countries may soon break ground on a new climate agreement ahead of a presidential meeting next week and the UN’s climate conference, COP28, at the end of this month.
"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/08/china-methane-plan-climate-agreement-us

[troph 24928]

pretty cool articles in Nautilus and NatGeo about living species having legal rights and humans being able to have standing on behalf of them in court. in the end that is likely the only way we end up with environmental protection that is sustainable. the NatGeo article was about various initiatives around the globe for carbon capture and the expectation that enough investment will come in from massive corporations (legally required or socially pressured to offset carbon use) that the costs will come way down and the technologies may actually be able to put a dent in the problem. as a side note, CO2 is now double in the atmosphere what it was pre-industrial levels, if I read that part right. no links, sorry it was a week ago.

Edited November 9, 2023 by troph