Jump to content

The Climate thread


Laxtonto

Recommended Posts

On 4/28/2024 at 1:42 PM, Neonmoon said:

Reducing meat consumption is a good goal. I agree with you. Your plan to reduce meat consumption is dumb. Here’s an olive branch. Don’t you think requiring dog food to be plant based is a better solution than charge high fees for new pets?

My dog would just eat me if I dared feed her some vegan nonsense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

From the NYT. 

image.png.4bd083101fb62cca9ddbc74c7807fe4b.png

image.png.2b20b57400667f20d22337afd1c4796c.png

[Paragraph 9:]

image.png.289412ee9dd8f69d2fc12ec65b5b27b8.png

image.png.625cd18b077d40d635d017671e373ea5.png

image.png.b8f58f87496b62c0b07f7736bcc35eb4.pngimage.png.b6e6a80fa9aa6433051c8bfbbbd3aadb.pngimage.png.5725f4ea50959b8413b3784003021b26.png

An aside from the article that I hadn't seen largely due to increased detachment, file under Home of the Brave, Land of the Free:

image.png.3e316fb8cde77c5bb134f953954e6ad3.png

Don't shatter your kneecap bending the knee. Wait, on second thought...

  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From where I stand here is what I see is the biggest problem right now:

Short of a federal government mandate like you have in Europe (and we were going down that path but it seems completely dead now), in America we have to either a) incentivize businesses in a methodology that enables shareholder value creation or b) rely on states to enact reporting and penalty mandates (a la California).

Up to this point it's been largely a "you should do this because it's a good thing to do and even though it's a value destruction in the short and mid-term", IMO.

Edited by Vegas64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

From where I stand here is what I see is the biggest problem right now:

Short of a federal government mandate like you have in Europe (and we were going down that path but it seems completely dead now), in America we have to either a) incentivize businesses in a methodology that enables shareholder value creation or b) rely on states to enact reporting and penalty mandates (a la California).

Up to this point it's been largely a "you should do this because it's a good thing to do and even though it's a value destruction in the short and mid-term", IMO.

Agree and this will also be our downfall

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Agree and this will also be our downfall

Or.............we can have states step up like California has done (and NY could be next), etc.

President 47 ain't gonna do federal climate change regulation any favors.

Edited by Vegas64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw this graphic and it hit home:

We have two factors to work with (of the 4 that are generally understand to contribute to our CO2).

1) the amount of energy used to create a unit of economic development (dollars)

2) the amount of CO2 generated per unit of energy produced

AD_4nXcNQf0HPYCFd-F-HIqri5WXfF0e2LR1QbkgXuNarKoQY_S3dBYzq-bmYOK-YMn3updxJIcZYTvuUt4A3HQJV9RRVaApRsSvu1A7O2aslC2_ZhOSjz_9pr4GwqAsLI29h9gZojJ5uQ?key=hGn9hIUB99VATOYKFsVsMINI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Vegas64 said:

Or.............we can have states step up like California has done (and NY could be next), etc.

President 47 ain't gonna do federal climate change regulation any favors.

CA will fight like hell for their own climate regulation autonomy - if CA can win and hold it's own, their economy alone will dictate some positive policies that extend beyond CA.  we can hope, but Trump Admin is coming for that autonomy.

In the end, we are going to have to see most of the world convert to (i) nuclear, wind, and solar (with batteries), (ii) EVs, and (iii) we are going to have to bring costs down and turbo charge carbon atmospheric vacuums. There's a lot more but if we don't start sucking this shit out of the air with a massive filtration system we are just doomed.

how on Earth the richest countries in the world aren't dumping money into this is beyond me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, troph said:

how on Earth the richest countries in the world aren't dumping money into this is beyond me.

It's because today, doing anything beyond the most rudimentary and lip-service of net zero is wealth and value destruction and we live in a world where value creation in the short-and-medium-term is all that necessarily matters (e.g. shareholder capitalism). Thus, regulation is necessary.

Edit to add, I know you get it, but for the granola types who don't have a business background, the theory undergirding all this is in our system:

A company merely exists to create value for shareholders by investing in projects that generate cash flow growth and/or return on invested capital (ROIC).

If the ROIC is less than the cost of capital, the growth destroys the value.

Climate Change implementation to processes (did you know that it is widely understood that 7 industries make up 85% of the direct greenhouse gas emissions) is costly and hard and distracts from or actively destroys value creation.

Edited by Vegas64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, troph said:

(iii) we are going to have to bring costs down and turbo charge carbon atmospheric vacuums. There's a lot more but if we don't start sucking this shit out of the air with a massive filtration system we are just doomed.

how on Earth the richest countries in the world aren't dumping money into this is beyond me.

You have mentioned this several times and I’ve been keeping well abreast of climate solutions and sustainable practices since I was a kid, but have never seen anything about any sort of carbon atmospheric vacuums. All I envision is Mega Maid. Can you expand on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

You have mentioned this several times and I’ve been keeping well abreast of climate solutions and sustainable practices since I was a kid, but have never seen anything about any sort of carbon atmospheric vacuums. All I envision is Mega Maid. Can you expand on this?

They are talking about DAC or Direct Air Capture (I believe). Oxy is (or was, haven't followed lately) huge into this down in Houston. 

ETA link: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1210928126/oil-climate-change-carbon-capture-removal-direct-air-capture-occidental

 

image.thumb.png.b04cabaa3195973333eba59974851496.png

Edited by Vegas64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

They are talking about DAC or Direct Air Capture (I believe). Oxy is (or was, haven't followed lately) huge into this down in Houston. 

ETA link: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1210928126/oil-climate-change-carbon-capture-removal-direct-air-capture-occidental

Interesting but

Quote

Once it's up and running, the billion-dollar facility will be 100 times bigger than any direct air capture plant ever built — and yet, even if it works perfectly, it will take a year to remove less than 10 minutes' worth of global emissions.

That doesn’t seem promising 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Interesting but

That doesn’t seem promising 

there are others out there, the technology is going to have to be turbo charged, like I said. but understand there are hardly any DAC facilities out there. so 100 times bigger doesn't mean big.  we went from horse drawn carriages to rocket ships taking us to the moon. we can do this. we just don't want to do this.

here's another article on it.

https://www.spglobal.com/commodity-insights/en/news-research/latest-news/energy-transition/050824-worlds-largest-direct-air-capture-plant-enters-operation-in-iceland

2023 we released 37 billion MT of CO2 from fossil fuels. yay us!

again though if we convert to nuclear as the primary energy source, augment with solar/wind and batteries, continue the shift to EVs then a serious dent in emissions could be achieved. add rapid development and deployment of DAC and a few other initiatives and we could hold the line I think. but nah, increased profit now is better than sustainable profit later!

Edited by troph
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

watch Europe get close to net zero or at least sustainable levels by 2050 while the rest of us fuck around with tik tok and joe rogan pod casts while we wonder why the fuck it's so hot and where all the rain went.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

Saw this graphic and it hit home:

We have two factors to work with (of the 4 that are generally understand to contribute to our CO2).

1) the amount of energy used to create a unit of economic development (dollars)

2) the amount of CO2 generated per unit of energy produced

AD_4nXcNQf0HPYCFd-F-HIqri5WXfF0e2LR1QbkgXuNarKoQY_S3dBYzq-bmYOK-YMn3updxJIcZYTvuUt4A3HQJV9RRVaApRsSvu1A7O2aslC2_ZhOSjz_9pr4GwqAsLI29h9gZojJ5uQ?key=hGn9hIUB99VATOYKFsVsMINI

 

IMG_7044.gif

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We should definitely be throwing all of our time, money and energy into making life suitable on Mars for a lucky few rather than just not fucking the planet we evolved to live on. We need more billionaires building rockets!!!

  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

Short of a federal government mandate like you have in Europe (and we were going down that path but it seems completely dead now), in America we have to either a) incentivize businesses in a methodology that enables shareholder value creation or b) rely on states to enact reporting and penalty mandates (a la California).

How?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are talking about DAC or Direct Air Capture (I believe). Oxy is (or was, haven't followed lately) huge into this down in Houston. 


For the U.S. based companies involved in DAC, I wonder how the Trump presidency will affect funding for those projects.

Will Oxy and similar oil companies continue to put new money into it, or will they wrap up existing projects and then leave it at that? I understand their biggest DAC plant is a major project and not something they are likely to shut down due to a 4-year presidential term, but I am curious to see if those companies make additional DAC investments during Trump’s term.

To the extent that these things could be labeled greenwashing, it seems like that is less necessary for the immediate future.
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

How?

I mean...that is the million dollar question.

From what I can gather, the idea is to use lower carbon footprinting and going to market with a premium offering (e.g. pay $.01 more per gallon for the fuel that is less carbon intensive) so that the producer can capture that value, but the basis has to be the customer/market asking for it. To give an energy example.

Edited by Vegas64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

They are talking about DAC or Direct Air Capture (I believe). Oxy is (or was, haven't followed lately) huge into this down in Houston. 

ETA link: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1210928126/oil-climate-change-carbon-capture-removal-direct-air-capture-occidental

 

image.thumb.png.b04cabaa3195973333eba59974851496.png

How many Mt of CO2 did it take to build that plant?  How much does it take to operate it?  How much is created driving to work there?  How much is created by the trucks that deliver replacement parts?  Or the trucks that are transporting the CO2 to be injected into some rock formation?  How much energy is required to execute the injection process?  I don't know these answers, but I doubt it is net-negative on CO2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Elvis said:

How many Mt of CO2 did it take to build that plant?  How much does it take to operate it?  How much is created driving to work there?  How much is created by the trucks that deliver replacement parts?  Or the trucks that are transporting the CO2 to be injected into some rock formation?  How much energy is required to execute the injection process?  I don't know these answers, but I doubt it is net-negative on CO2.

I agree, but I bet there is at least a forecasted or modeled hypothesis that shows a net negative CO2 at some point. All projects have a build/implementation phase that put you into a negative initially (e.g. power plants, solar farms, etc. etc. etc.). It's basic EIOERI stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_return_on_investment

Edited by Vegas64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Elvis said:

How many Mt of CO2 did it take to build that plant?  How much does it take to operate it?  How much is created driving to work there?  How much is created by the trucks that deliver replacement parts?  Or the trucks that are transporting the CO2 to be injected into some rock formation?  How much energy is required to execute the injection process?  I don't know these answers, but I doubt it is net-negative on CO2.

On top of that, buy futures in companies producing caustic. 
 

And those that can dispose of sodium carbonate. 
 

I assume they are going to find a way to clean up the waste water because this will use a metric ultra shit ton of water 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Elvis said:

How many Mt of CO2 did it take to build that plant?  How much does it take to operate it?  How much is created driving to work there?  How much is created by the trucks that deliver replacement parts?  Or the trucks that are transporting the CO2 to be injected into some rock formation?  How much energy is required to execute the injection process?  I don't know these answers, but I doubt it is net-negative on CO2.

this is why we need a carbon tax.

 

(i remember when a carbon tax was the cato institute's "libertarian solution" to global warming. probably knowing it would never get passed so it was like elmo's hyperloop, just a cover to make it look like they're thinking about some golden future to prevent investments today which would compete with or otherwise negatively impact the product they currently make)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Elvis said:

How many Mt of CO2 did it take to build that plant?  How much does it take to operate it?  How much is created driving to work there?  How much is created by the trucks that deliver replacement parts?  Or the trucks that are transporting the CO2 to be injected into some rock formation?  How much energy is required to execute the injection process?  I don't know these answers, but I doubt it is net-negative on CO2.

 

If it wasn't net negative on CO2 then they wouldn't build it, since the only point to building it is being net negative on CO2. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a fascinating topic (Climate) to revisit and keep top of mind, considering a new regime who is likely going to be unfriendly to the ESG space compared to the rest of the Western developed civilization. I think I saw today we've already dropped out of the Paris Agreement (again), or are about to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

It's a fascinating topic (Climate) to revisit and keep top of mind, considering a new regime who is likely going to be unfriendly to the ESG space compared to the rest of the Western developed civilization. I think I saw today we've already dropped out of the Paris Agreement (again), or are about to?

Yup. And not only are they stopping everything, they are reversing course. The US could be leading in climate science, sustainability, and the new energy frontier. Instead, we will be the laggards of the first world.  Bang up job you morons. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yup. And not only are they stopping everything, they are reversing course. The US could be leading in climate science, sustainability, and the new energy frontier. Instead, we will be the laggards of the first world.  Bang up job you morons. 

My personal opinion is that even with a hostile administration, the U.S. will continue to invest in some measure of sustainability and new / renewable energy. It just won't be as widely adopted and move as fast without the helpful nudge of federal regulation...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple of interesting things:

Yes, we pulled out of the Paris Agreement federally, but great to see 24 (and counting?) States step up and say they are not pulling out. Mirrors the SEC/States Scope 3 legislation as well. I think the future is less a federal one, but state-drive (a la marijuana) and one that eventually gets to a plurality.

I'm just now seeing that there was a "Trump Energy Emergency" EO. This is only to power AI and data centers of course and it reduces environmental restrictions to get some power generated. This is because Trump has dergulated AI.

The idea is that we are goign to double down on nuclear and renewables as well to power AI. The ideal state is that project Stargate helps to solve Nuclear Fusion (collecting fusion energy from 93 million miles away or something).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

The ideal state is that project Stargate helps to solve Nuclear Fusion

Jesus fucking Christ you must be completely high.

The idea that any of this will be used for a) the common good instead of b) further massive enrichment and tightening the absolute grip on power of the oligarch class is fucking INSANE, and contrary to every single thing the regime and the Techbros who run it have ever done.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Jesus fucking Christ you must be completely high.

The idea that any of this will be used for a) the common good instead of b) further massive enrichment and tightening the absolute grip on power of the oligarch class is fucking INSANE, and contrary to every single thing the regime and the Techbros who run it have ever done.

I mean I think we are saying the same thing. The Vanderbilt/Chase/Carnegie reincarnate who harnesses nuclear fusion is going to own the power generation monopoly as even the most chinese, temu-priced solar panels would be a more expensive way to generate power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

For all the talk about how bad the Boomers are, every generation of adults today shares blame for the future of this planet. I don’t think history will look kindly on us. Maybe there won’t be any people to have a history so it won’t matter.

One of my 'hobbies' if you will is picking up trash as I finish my outdoor exercise. If I could catapult some of the drive through coffee shops into the sun I would do it. For what its worth, I don't think it is the boomers who are grabbing an iced coffee, drinking it, and then tossing the ice-filled cup out the window. The weight of the ice tends to force the lid off so instead of one piece of trash it's often cup plus the lid and straw. Even better is when the landscape services don't bother to stop and thus shred the plastic into pieces that are a PITA. I can fill a kitchen sized garbage bag every week (I usually pick up weekly or bi-weekly) simply walking several blocks. The little foil granola bar wrappers are another PITA. At least the shitty beer drinkers have turned to the equally shitty spiked teas and seltzers so I can spot the neon bright cans easily. The one item I don't see so much anymore? Cigarette butts. The vape cartridges have yet to match the numbers, maybe people are better about throwing those away.

  • Rage+1 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

One of my 'hobbies' if you will is picking up trash as I finish my outdoor exercise. If I could catapult some of the drive through coffee shops into the sun I would do it. For what its worth, I don't think it is the boomers who are grabbing an iced coffee, drinking it, and then tossing the ice-filled cup out the window. The weight of the ice tends to force the lid off so instead of one piece of trash it's often cup plus the lid and straw. Even better is when the landscape services don't bother to stop and thus shred the plastic into pieces that are a PITA. I can fill a kitchen sized garbage bag every week (I usually pick up weekly or bi-weekly) simply walking several blocks. The little foil granola bar wrappers are another PITA. At least the shitty beer drinkers have turned to the equally shitty spiked teas and seltzers so I can spot the neon bright cans easily. The one item I don't see so much anymore? Cigarette butts. The vape cartridges have yet to match the numbers, maybe people are better about throwing those away.

Where do you live where there is that much litter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

One of my 'hobbies' if you will is picking up trash as I finish my outdoor exercise. If I could catapult some of the drive through coffee shops into the sun I would do it. For what its worth, I don't think it is the boomers who are grabbing an iced coffee, drinking it, and then tossing the ice-filled cup out the window. The weight of the ice tends to force the lid off so instead of one piece of trash it's often cup plus the lid and straw. Even better is when the landscape services don't bother to stop and thus shred the plastic into pieces that are a PITA. I can fill a kitchen sized garbage bag every week (I usually pick up weekly or bi-weekly) simply walking several blocks. The little foil granola bar wrappers are another PITA. At least the shitty beer drinkers have turned to the equally shitty spiked teas and seltzers so I can spot the neon bright cans easily. The one item I don't see so much anymore? Cigarette butts. The vape cartridges have yet to match the numbers, maybe people are better about throwing those away.

This infuriates me.  I walk my dogs about 3 miles a day through various neighborhoods and walking trails.  We also have a middle school and elementary school in the hood.  The amount of littering is mindblowing.  And you can definitely tell the season (especially Halloween b/c we're a destination trick or treat neighborhood) or changes in tastes just by looking at the trash.  I recall during the height of the pandemic I's see masks fucking everywhere. 

We also have new neighborhood additions going up and, holy shit, the amount of trash construction crews throw on the ground boggles the mind. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...