The Climate thread

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Hey look, Bag o' Hammers is posting in the climate thread.

[elfenix 34168]

Shocker: oil companies have been lying about how much methane they've been venting

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/19/oil-gas-industry-far-worse-climate-impact-than-thought-fossil-fuels-methane

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[hpslugga 4039]

On 2/14/2020 at 1:26 PM, Thetexashammer said:

The NY Times leans left and has a long history of fake news, do you discount anything they write without reading it?

You cannot tell left from right. It's absolutely breathtaking.

[Nivek 16808]

On 2/5/2020 at 1:06 PM, elfenix said:

i like this way a bit better

m=e/c2

 

ahh, the vic perspective.

[RayDog 682]

On 2/6/2020 at 3:06 AM, elfenix said:

i like this way a bit better

m=e/c2

 

I prefer m = fεμ in natural units where h=1. It makes it clear that mass is a function of frequency, permittivity, and permeability which means mass is an electromagnetic phenomenon. The permittivity and permeability change depending on the local distribution of stable matter, which means the rest mass varies with location. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

JP Morgan, the single biggest private funder of fossil fuel exploration/production worldwide, wrote an internal report that got leaked.  It concluded that the firm “cannot rule out catastrophic outcomes where human life as we know it is threatened.”

 

Quote

We’re talking things like the sudden collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, sending sea levels more than 10 feet higher and displacing millions of people. Or a feedback loop where melting permafrost releases more carbon dioxide that causes more warming that causing more thawing and carbon emissions. These things are already happening but at a rate, we can somewhat handle. What’s worrisome is that we could cross a tipping point where they happen suddenly and humanity is left having to deal with a new, unsteady state.

“Although precise predictions are not possible, it is clear that the earth is on an unsustainable trajectory,” the JP Morgan analysts wrote. “Something will have to change at some point if the human race is going to survive.”

https://earther.gizmodo.com/worlds-biggest-fossil-fuel-funder-notes-climate-change-1841835204


 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

A quarter of all climate tweets come from bots, and they're more likely to peddle denial:

https://earther.gizmodo.com/a-quarter-of-all-climate-tweets-come-from-bots-and-they-1841839822

[gmr548 16463]

On 2/14/2020 at 12:14 PM, High Plains Drifter said:

the need for wealthier countries to help poorer countries.

This can't be said enough. Regardless of what progress the US has made over the past 10-20 years (some of which is being undone/thwarted now), we as a single nation are responsible for 25-30 percent of cumulative carbon emissions since the industrial revolution. That is obviously disproportionate to our share of the population and we have also obviously benefitted greatly in terms of wealth creation.

For us to ask developing countries to do their part without financial backing would be hypocrisy on a monumental scale.

Edited February 23, 2020 by gmr548

[pacman 7309]

9 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

A quarter of all climate tweets come from bots, and they're more likely to peddle denial:

https://earther.gizmodo.com/a-quarter-of-all-climate-tweets-come-from-bots-and-they-1841839822

Oil/Gas will do anything to protect their trillions in subsidies.

[JBJ 3647]

On 2/22/2020 at 8:37 PM, RayDog said:

I prefer m = fεμ in natural units where h=1. It makes it clear that mass is a function of frequency, permittivity, and permeability which means mass is an electromagnetic phenomenon. The permittivity and permeability change depending on the local distribution of stable matter, which means the rest mass varies with location. 

That's what she said.

[zork 629]

boom.  mother orb going off.

https://volcano.si.edu/

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Lightning strikes in the smoke are badass.

[Zavala 1384]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=sfrVy_1583284196

[Parliament 14112]

North Dakota’s largest coal-fired power plant is slated to close in 2022, its owner announced Thursday.

 

The head of Minnesota-based Great River Energy said the cooperative is open to finding a new owner for Coal Creek Station in McLean County and has had "numerous discussions" with potential buyers. So far, it's found no takers.

 

A few years ago this woulda been unheard of. Article goes on to say the coal electricity will be replaced by gas and maybe windmills...if they can get permission. Sad that windmills in a wide open windy State are so controversial.

 

This plant sells steam to a nearby ethanol plant. They can switch to gas, but I'm not sure the economics work. Might be better to take the buyout and close down.

 

"We are not talking about selling it for a material price,” Great River Energy President and CEO David Saggau said on a call with reporters. “All of our discussions have been basically giving the plant to somebody."

 

 

Yeesh. That sounds bad.

 

ETA

Tapa gets all messed up with italics. Some of that is quoted from the article and some is my own typing. You gotta figure out what's what I guess.

 

 

 

https://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/coal-creek-station-slated-to-close-in-2022/article_e23d6007-e56d-56e2-b414-e380251b818c.html

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Soooo free market right?

[zork 629]

What are the best eco friendly gloves for our new social distancing world?

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Just now, Message Board User said:

 

Wtf. Is that with the heat index?

[Message Board User 12389]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wtf. Is that with the heat index?

Looks like it's straight temperature.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/17/climate-crisis-alarm-at-record-breaking-heatwave-in-siberia

[Biff Tannen 45477]

7 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Looks like it's straight temperature.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/17/climate-crisis-alarm-at-record-breaking-heatwave-in-siberia

God damn. 2020 fucking sucks. 

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

I get so confused when abnormal temps are climate change or just weather. 

[zork 629]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Looks like it's straight temperature.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/17/climate-crisis-alarm-at-record-breaking-heatwave-in-siberia

compare that to this prediction/recording of the magnetic pole changes for 2020:(pretty eerie ifyou ask me, magnetic pole science is scary(apparently))

 

Very informative article at this link:

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/world-magnetic-model-2020-released

 

Another image from a different perspective:

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by zork

[elfenix 34168]

yeah those don't match

[elfenix 34168]

Methane gonna fuck us:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/soaring-methane-emissions-threaten-put-climate-change-goals-out-reach-n1233831

[gmr548 16463]

Methane gonna fuck us:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/soaring-methane-emissions-threaten-put-climate-change-goals-out-reach-n1233831

Thanks for nothing, Railroad Commission. The worst part is that who knows how many sites in West Texasare going just be left permanently releasing methane as O&G companies abandon them without any cleanup, and walk scott free.

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-05/parts-of-tasmania-wake-to-snowy-surprise/12524416
 

if super hot in Siberia means something, then super cold in Tasmania also means something. Right?

[bolverk 29360]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-05/parts-of-tasmania-wake-to-snowy-surprise/12524416
 

if super hot in Siberia means something, then super cold in Tasmania also means something. Right?

Right. Both outcomes are entirely consistent with what has been predicted over the past 20 years: a warmer atmosphere is one that has more energy stored within it and, therefore, tends to produce more extreme weather events.

[washparkhorn 9931]

So . . . probably time for grandparents and parents to start snatching up that pristine farmland in the Yukon for their grandkids and kids? No? 

[bolverk 29360]

5 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

So . . . probably time for grandparents and parents to start snatching up that pristine farmland in the Yukon for their grandkids and kids? No? 

That depends on how productive Yukon's hypothetical farm soil would be after the permafrost melts and how long the growing season would be during its summer months of perpetual daylight, yes?

[washparkhorn 9931]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

That depends on how productive Yukon's hypothetical farm soil would be after the permafrost melts and how long the growing season would be during its summer months of perpetual daylight, yes?

Yes. And the predictions are quite stunning. Warmer, wetter and two growing seasons. (those predictions also predict Texas and the Southwest will be only suited for solar collection as humans transition northward). 

As for GDP - Canada is expected to be flat if not rising by 2021, while the US becomes a shell of its former self. https://web.stanford.edu/~mburke/climate/map.php

It is becoming quite obvious we have no intention of slowing this trend. The still dismal, but greener, pastures, lie in Canada. I know some of the billionaire class plan to escape to space. For those more connected to humanity on Earth - Canada fares better than most nations (while still devastated by climate change).  https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/mbanm4/how-climate-change-could-turn-canada-into-a-global-superpower

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by washparkhorn

[bolverk 29360]

10 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Yes. And the predictions are quite stunning. Warmer, wetter and two growing seasons. (those predictions also predict Texas and the Southwest will be only suited for solar collection as humans transition northward). 

As for GDP - Canada is expected to be flat if not rising by 2021, while the US becomes a shell of its former self. https://web.stanford.edu/~mburke/climate/map.php

It is becoming quite obvious we have no intention of slowing this trend. The still dismal, but greener, pastures, lie in Canada. I know some of the billionaire class plan to escape to space. For those more connected to humanity on Earth - Canada fares better than most nations (while still devastated by climate change).  https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/mbanm4/how-climate-change-could-turn-canada-into-a-global-superpower

 

Poor Greenland. Glad we didn't make the mistake of buying it from the Danish.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

13 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Yes. And the predictions are quite stunning. Warmer, wetter and two growing seasons. (those predictions also predict Texas and the Southwest will be only suited for solar collection as humans transition northward). 

As for GDP - Canada is expected to be flat if not rising by 2021, while the US becomes a shell of its former self. https://web.stanford.edu/~mburke/climate/map.php

It is becoming quite obvious we have no intention of slowing this trend. The still dismal, but greener, pastures, lie in Canada. I know some of the billionaire class plan to escape to space. For those more connected to humanity on Earth - Canada fares better than most nations (while still devastated by climate change).  https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/mbanm4/how-climate-change-could-turn-canada-into-a-global-superpower

 

That chart is silly. I really hope it is satire. There are about a million unknowns that they are just completely ignoring. 

[Parliament 14112]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:46 AM, washparkhorn said:

So . . . probably time for grandparents and parents to start snatching up that pristine farmland in the Yukon for their grandkids and kids? No? 

Go long on everything North Dakota.

[washparkhorn 9931]

Then you will just love these projections. 

Almost as alien as Pangea. 

[washparkhorn 9931]

Köppen-Geiger classifications 2016 v. 2100.

https://www.nature.com/articles/sdata2018214

 

[elfenix 34168]

last intact ice shelf in canada broke off two years earlier than expected

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/canada-s-last-remaining-intact-ice-shelf-collapses-1.5055572

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

On August 4, 2020 at 10:25 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-05/parts-of-tasmania-wake-to-snowy-surprise/12524416
 

if super hot in Siberia means something, then super cold in Tasmania also means something. Right?

It means chaos. The climate is a chaotic system and heat is the energy that drives the system. More heat leads to more chaos. The trend is upwards but the swings are more extreme. 

It really isn't hard to understand. 

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

I have a good handle on entropy.  

[Bullneck 18976]

On 6/20/2020 at 7:22 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

I get so confused when abnormal temps are climate change or just weather. 

Climate = what you expect

Weather = what you get

[Bullneck 18976]

On 6/20/2020 at 7:28 PM, zork said:

compare that to this prediction/recording of the magnetic pole changes for 2020:(pretty eerie ifyou ask me, magnetic pole science is scary(apparently))

 

Very informative article at this link:

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/world-magnetic-model-2020-released

 

Another image from a different perspective:

 

And here's Zork again, posting shit he doesn't understand and can't explain in the climate thread, for some reason.  

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I have a good handle on entropy.  

Maybe you do, maybe you don't. It doesn't really matter if you don't understand the nature of the system. 

[elfenix 34168]

we can get rid of most of our carbon output using existing technologies over the next 15 years without downsizing our houses or cars:

 

Quote

Much more interesting is Griffith’s larger project the model he’s built and its implications.

In a nutshell, he has shown that it’s possible to eliminate 70 percent to 80 percent of US carbon emissions by 2035 through rapid deployment of existing electrification technologies, with little-to-no carbon capture and sequestration. Doing so would slash US energy demand by around half, save consumers money, and keep the country on a 1.5° pathway without requiring particular behavior changes. Everyone could still have their same cars and houses — they would just need to be electric.

...

Griffith begins with a core assumption: We need to make a plan to solve the problem with the tools available. It is unwise, for instance, to bet on a large amount of carbon capture and sequestration coming online in time to make a difference. The technologies are still in the early stage and there are strong arguments they will never pencil out.

Griffith takes a “yes, and” approach. If carbon capture sequestration works out, great. If next-gen nuclear reactors work out, great. If hydrogen-based fuels work out, great. But we shouldn’t rely on any of them until they are real. We need to figure out how to do the job with the technology available.

On that score, Griffith’s modeling reaches two key conclusions.

First, it is still possible to reduce US greenhouse gas emissions in line with a 1.5°C pathway. Specifically, it is possible to reduce US emissions 70 percent to 80 percent by 2035 (and to zero by 2050) through rapid electrification, relying on five already well-developed technologies: wind and solar power plants, rooftop solar, electric vehicles, heat pumps, and batteries.

 

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/21349200/climate-change-fossil-fuels-rewiring-america-electrify

Edited August 10, 2020 by elfenix

[Biff Tannen 45477]

24 minutes ago, elfenix said:

we can get rid of most of our carbon output using existing technologies over the next 15 years without downsizing our houses or cars:

 

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/21349200/climate-change-fossil-fuels-rewiring-america-electrify

Big Oil says not so fast!

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

31 minutes ago, elfenix said:

we can get rid of most of our carbon output using existing technologies over the next 15 years without downsizing our houses or cars:

 

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/21349200/climate-change-fossil-fuels-rewiring-america-electrify

Interesting. Now I’ll ask a question or two that hopefully are answers in the full article which I haven’t yet read-

How much additional materials will need to be mined/produced in order to have enough windmills, batteries, pv arrays, etc to implement this?  And at what environmental cost?  What is the current lifespan of these things, ie, how often will they need to be replaced? 
I don’t need a detailed explanation if you can assure me that this was addressed and is baked into the numbers. 

[bolverk 29360]

 

[elfenix 34168]

24 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Interesting. Now I’ll ask a question or two that hopefully are answers in the full article which I haven’t yet read-

How much additional materials will need to be mined/produced in order to have enough windmills, batteries, pv arrays, etc to implement this?  And at what environmental cost?  What is the current lifespan of these things, ie, how often will they need to be replaced? 
I don’t need a detailed explanation if you can assure me that this was addressed and is baked into the numbers. 

the function of this report was to discuss jobs in the ramp to replace stuff over the next 15 years with electric versions of the same stuff (mostly as stuff breaks), so it's not addressed. 

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e540e7fb9d1816038da0314/t/5f209173294b6f5ee41ea278/1595969952405/Jobs_White_Paper_Compressed_Release.pdf

Edited August 10, 2020 by elfenix

[washparkhorn 9931]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

 

I have lost all confidence that we - collectively as a world - intend to deviate from the current path. We need to send Canada a Statue of Liberty now for the day when the tired and huddled masses move northward. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by washparkhorn

[hookem2010 2594]

Kind of like the pandemic. Half-ass some shit for a short period of time to say we tried, then give up and let nature run its course. Bold strategy, let's see if it pays off for us.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[gmr548 16463]

I have lost all confidence that we - collectively as a world - intend to deviate from the current path. We need to send Canada a Statue of Liberty now for the day whhe tired and huddled masses move northward. 

Yeah. I hate to be a pessimist, but look at how fucking hard it is for so many to understand lagging indicators when it comes to COVID. That's what we're dealing with climate on an infinitely larger scale. Even those of us that conceive ourselves climate conscious. When it's 110 in Siberia, it's already too late.