The Climate thread

[WhatTheBuck 28931]

Idiot.

[Mullet Free 39]

7 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Idiot.

This is why I kind of like Neonmoon. No deflection via name calling. Just owns it all.

Like, fuck yeah we’re getting rid of gas stoves. 
 

Fuck yeah you’re gonna eat the bugs and the lab grown proteins. 
 

Fuck yeah I would like less people on the planet. 

[DaysOff 8211]

It is pretty barbaric to have an open flame inside your house to cook. Do you live in some hooch in Mumbai? There's safer and more efficient ways to get instant cooking heat.

[Foosters 18284]

1 hour ago, Mullet Free said:

This is why I kind of like Neonmoon. No deflection via name calling. Just owns it all.

Like, fuck yeah we’re getting rid of gas stoves. 
 

Fuck yeah you’re gonna eat the bugs and the lab grown proteins. 
 

Fuck yeah I would like less people on the planet. 

Biden did this?

[brakeman 28751]

 

[troph 25229]

We did our part this past month…

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

There's bad news and worse news

[WhatTheBuck 28931]

Nah, you see it’s not really warming. It just depends on how you look at the data.

[Biff Tannen 46168]

4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nah, you see it’s not really warming. It just depends on how you look at the data.

No, now they are on to "yes, it's warming, but we aren't the reason why and there's nothing we can do about it anyway."

[troph 25229]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

No, now they are on to "yes, it's warming, but we aren't the reason why and there's nothing we can do about it anyway."

Wasn’t mop the only one left saying that… 

[Nivek 17415]

2 hours ago, troph said:

Wasn’t mop the only one left saying that… 

It was always there wasn't global warming, there is one sensor in the world near an exhaust port,  I got a guy who is a former weatherman who says otherwise, and if it was warming, then it isn't man-made, how can there be warming if there is snow in my freezer?,  well if there was global warming and it was caused by man, there is nothing we can do about it, if there is something we can do about it we shouldn't because it will ruin all of the economies of the world and create a post-apocalyptical hellscape.    Al Gore took a plane to speak at a conference.  This is really just a leftist cash grab.  

They said this all at the same time just like this.

 

[brakeman 28751]

hang on to your butts & sell your beach property, now.

[troph 25229]

 

[troph 25229]

so fucking distressing...

(I fact checked that twitter link hoping it wasn't real, it was/is real). more on northern temps.

TRIGGER WARNING, CELLULITE AND A BIKINI

https://mashable.com/article/arctic-heat-wave-climate-change

Edited July 6, 2023 by troph

[hookem2010 2700]

Not good, Bob!

Can't stop, won't stop shattering heat records. I continue to struggle with giving entirely in to hopeless pessimism in an attempt to not be constantly bothered by what seems to be the inevitable collapse of the natural world as we know it vs. remaining somewhat engaged and always depressed by the never-ending onslaught of horrible news.

[Biff Tannen 46168]

1 hour ago, hookem2010 said:

Not good, Bob!

Can't stop, won't stop shattering heat records. I continue to struggle with giving entirely in to hopeless pessimism in an attempt to not be constantly bothered by what seems to be the inevitable collapse of the natural world as we know it vs. remaining somewhat engaged and always depressed by the never-ending onslaught of horrible news.

I'm just trying to experience it while we still can.  Not sure if I'll take trips to big cities anymore at all, except maybe European ones that I haven't seen.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2888]

From a climate change perspective, if you travel, you should only be going to, and living in, big walkable cities, correct?

 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

1 hour ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

From a climate change perspective, if you travel, you should only be going to, and living in, big walkable cities, correct?

 

Not when we've passed the tipping point. 

[WhatTheBuck 28931]

13 hours ago, Nivek said:

It was always there wasn't global warming, there is one sensor in the world near an exhaust port,  I got a guy who is a former weatherman who says otherwise, and if it was warming, then it isn't man-made, how can there be warming if there is snow in my freezer?,  well if there was global warming and it was caused by man, there is nothing we can do about it, if there is something we can do about it we shouldn't because it will ruin all of the economies of the world and create a post-apocalyptical hellscape.    Al Gore took a plane to speak at a conference.  This is really just a leftist cash grab.  

They said this all at the same time just like this.

 

Yeah, there’s never been any unity in their message. And that’s by design. They’re not approaching the problem like scientists trying to explain. They’re approaching it like lawyers just trying to sow doubt. 

[troph 25229]

I know the world is burning but I’m in the mountains and enjoying the trout fishing and it’s been such a therapeutic time seeing bountiful displays of nature. Trees, grasslands, bugs so thick in the air honestly you have to be careful riding back at night lest you inhale some added protein, trout that just jump out of the water one after the other feeding on bugs (and my flies), run off, full rivers, and a moderate climate.  I want to believe we can still turn this around. If not for us for a few generations later. I cannot explain how full I feel from experiencing abundance here. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by troph

[bolverk 30333]

Fuckin' hell. 2021, so it captures us getting out of the pandemic, and it just gets worse and worse.

More vantage points from around the globe: https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/5110

 

 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

This is the first I've heard of this.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/01/white-house-cautiously-opens-door-to-study-blocking-suns-rays-to-slow-global-warming-ee-00104513

Quote

White House cautiously opens the door to study blocking sun’s rays to slow global warming

A Biden administration report required by Congress outlines research options for a last-ditch effort to slow the heating of the planet. But the White House says it’s not changing its climate strategy.

 

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

[brakeman 28751]

 

[brakeman 28751]

 

[DaysOff 8211]

Humanity has always been the pandemic virus. I give us another 150 years. The planet will be fine.

[gmr548 16702]

Humanity has always been the pandemic virus. I give us another 150 years. The planet will be fine.

Indeed. That’s always how I’ve framed it in discussions. This isn’t Earth’s first rodeo with climate change or extinction events. It’ll be fine, eventually. It’s us we need to worry about.

[Jhawkmvp 1514]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:37 AM, Biff Tannen said:

This is the first I've heard of this.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/01/white-house-cautiously-opens-door-to-study-blocking-suns-rays-to-slow-global-warming-ee-00104513

 

 

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

Humanity has always been the pandemic virus. I give us another 150 years. The planet will be fine.

 

This page has a Matrixy vibe.

[RomaVicta 30597]

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

Humanity has always been the pandemic virus. I give us another 150 years. The planet will be fine.

Yep. I've started saying "our world" will be destroyed. The planet and life upon it will go on no matter our diminished role.

The humans just about died out due to the self-distraction and entitlement of a relatively small portion of humanity. When cows were identified as a large source of methane, they were swayed against action or even recognizing the need for it by the fear that they might have to forego hamburgers.

They wouldn't give up over-powered cars and needlessly over-sized vehicles for the common good because it's just plain fun to drive around fast and big.

Some had the ludicrous belief that "the market" would solve all problems. 

They will hate us. We will have earned that hate.

And why does anyone need this big thing for driving? It's absurd even as a work truck.

[Nivek 17415]

11 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Yep. I've started saying "our world" will be destroyed. The planet and life upon it will go on no matter our diminished role.

The humans just about died out due to the self-distraction and entitlement of a relatively small portion of humanity. When cows were identified as a large source of methane, they were swayed against action or even recognizing the need for it by the fear that they might have to forego hamburgers.

They wouldn't give up over-powered cars and needlessly over-sized vehicles for the common good because it's just plain fun to drive around fast and big.

Some had the ludicrous belief that "the market" would solve all problems. 

They will hate us. We will have earned that hate.

And why does anyone need this big thing for driving? It's absurd even as a work truck.

Trucks and AR15s are the toys of morons and assholes.  Growing up, I saw trucks as a symbol for the poors.  Now the faux rich moved on 3-series BMWs to stupidly sized pick-up trucks.  The funniest part is seeing the driver use his little manlet step to climb into his wannabe earth mover.   

[RomaVicta 30597]

2 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Trucks and AR15s are the toys of morons and assholes.

Insecure non-men who learned masculinity from movies. 

[Nivek 17415]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

Insecure non-men who learned masculinity from movies. 

it's probably the titties.

[mchookem 16769]

...and people wonder why some of us choose not to have kids. 

 

[hookem2010 2700]

Yea, imagining the future we're creating for my kid is the worst part. There are a lot of people on this planet, but if we didn't ALWAYS NEED EVERY COOL NEW THING INSTANTLY!!! the world could still be a pretty cool place, even with 8 billion people. 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Trucks and AR15s are the toys of morons and assholes.  Growing up, I saw trucks as a symbol for the poors.  Now the faux rich moved on 3-series BMWs to stupidly sized pick-up trucks.  The funniest part is seeing the driver use his little manlet step to climb into his wannabe earth mover.   

 

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Insecure non-men who learned masculinity from movies. 

I drove a jacked up Dodge Ram.  In high school.  Then I realized it was silly because I got over the age of 21.  These people never matured.

[hookem2010 2700]

Something I never considered much until now is do I want my child to have a love of nature like I always have? He's definitely going to be exposed to it plenty, because that's my jam, but I'm starting to hope he finds his joy in something else. Otherwise, I'm worried he's just going to be depressed watching the natural world wilt even further. 

[tigol 2482]

“Al Gore made a movie about global warming. Al Gore is a Democrat. I am a Republican. Therefore I disagree with Al Gore. I have chosen to take a position on a scientific subject I don’t understand based solely on the political party I vote for.”

Uncle John?

[gmr548 16702]

6 hours ago, hookem2010 said:

Yea, imagining the future we're creating for my kid is the worst part. There are a lot of people on this planet, but if we didn't ALWAYS NEED EVERY COOL NEW THING INSTANTLY!!! the world could still be a pretty cool place, even with 8 billion people. 

The Earth can carry significantly more people than are on it now. 

It cannot carry as many people as it has now when there's a significant chunk - mainly in the West - living at a very resource intensive and wasteful level. 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

4 hours ago, gmr548 said:

The Earth can carry significantly more people than are on it now. 

It cannot carry as many people as it has now when there's a significant chunk - mainly in the West - living at a very resource intensive and wasteful level. 

Do you even American Dream brah?

[RomaVicta 30597]

3 hours ago, gmr548 said:

The Earth can carry significantly more people than are on it now. 

The imperative of DNA will put that to the test. I find it to be a horrifying prospect. 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

Meanwhile:

 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

"If we destroy nature blindly, it is a boomerang which will be our undoing." - George Melendez Wright, first biologist of the National Parks Service

[mchookem 16769]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Meanwhile:

 

just hung up with my niece who is doing an internship with a mountain club in VT. they had to be emergency rescued yesterday and their base camp is completely destroyed, washed away. they are awaiting direction from state officials for their crews... their original work was simple trail repair/rebuilding but most of the trails are now basically destroyed. this is absolutely record setting flooding and devastation. they've been doing backwoods work with crews of volunteers but most of the volunteers have had to leave bc their own homes/towns are flooded.

she is terribly dispirited if not completely depressed (which is very scary for her in a much broader sense, i.e. she's already got issues). she said the damage is just horrible. 

she said they have had about 6 days of no rain since she got there end of May, so this storm just dumped incredible amounts on already completely saturated earth. 

i don't know if she's going to stick it out...i certainly can't blame her for wanting to throw in the towel, her mental health is paramount. she'll figure it out... she said it's like fighting the ocean or something, just completely futile and hopeless.

[brakeman 28751]

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2888]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:34 PM, gmr548 said:

The Earth can carry significantly more people than are on it now. 

It cannot carry as many people as it has now when there's a significant chunk - mainly in the West - living at a very resource intensive and wasteful level. 

Ok cool.  Hook 'em.

(So therefore it fucking can't carry significant more people than are on it now.)

 

[bolverk 30333]

What are people complaining about? It's just summer -- the water is supposed to be 90 degrees.

 

How Hot Is the Sea Off Florida Right Now? Think 90s Fahrenheit.
Researchers are recording ocean temperatures that pose severe risks to coral reefs and other marine life.

Florida’s coral reefs are facing what could be an unprecedented threat from a marine heat wave that is warming the Gulf of Mexico, pushing water temperatures into the 90s Fahrenheit.

The biggest concern for coral isn’t just the current sea surface temperatures in the Florida Keys, even though they are the hottest on record. The daily average surface temperature off the Keys on Monday was just over 90 degrees Fahrenheit, or 32.4 Celsius, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

The real worry, scientists say, is that it’s only July. Corals typically experience the most heat stress in August and September.

“We’re entering uncharted territories,” Derek Manzello, an ecologist and the coordinator of NOAA’s Coral Reef Watch program, said.

Coral reefs are natural wonders that support myriad species and blunt damage from storms. In the United States, reefs generate economic benefits to the tune of $3.4 billion annually for fisheries, tourism and coastal protection, according to NOAA.

But oceans have absorbed some 90 percent of the additional heat caused by humans as we burn fossil fuels and destroy forests. When sea temperatures rise too high, corals bleach, expelling the algae they need for sustenance. If waters don’t cool quickly enough, or if bleaching events happen in close succession, the corals die. For decades, scientists have been warning that climate change is an existential threat to coral reefs. Already, the world has lost a huge proportion of its coral reefs, perhaps half since 1950.

“To be blunt, it can be very depressing,” Dr. Manzello said. “Unfortunately, I’m a scientist watching it happen.”

Marine heat isn’t just affecting the Gulf of Mexico. Globally, about 40 percent of the planet is experiencing a marine heat wave, according to Dillon Amaya, a physical scientist at NOAA who studies them.

“Florida is one patch in a terrible quilt right now,” Dr. Amaya said.

In part, that’s because the planet is entering a natural climate phenomenon known as El Niño, which typically brings warmer oceans. But now, El Niño is coming on top of long-term warming caused by greenhouse gas emissions.

While coral is especially vulnerable, heat waves harm untold species, and the effects are different around the world, as species are adapted to different temperature ranges.

In general, fish need more oxygen when the water is warmer. That’s a problem, because warmer water holds less oxygen.

“Large-scale fish kills are becoming more frequent as our climate changes,” Martin Grosell, a professor of ichthyology at the University of Miami, said.

Coral reefs are particularly important because so many species rely on them. About 25 percent of all marine life, including more than 4,000 kinds of fish, depend on reefs at some point in their lives, according to NOAA.

While there aren’t yet reports of bleaching in Florida, it has already begun on reefs to the south, Dr. Manzello said, off Belize, Mexico, El Salvador, Costa Rica and Colombia.

Florida’s coral reef system stretches about 350 miles, from the St. Lucie inlet on the mainland south and west past the end of the Keys, and is frequented by sea turtles, manta rays, flounder and lobster.

What happens in Florida will depend on conditions over the next few weeks. Storms, which churn up deeper, cooler water and reduce sunshine, could provide relief, scientists say. El Niño periods are typically associated with below-average Atlantic hurricane seasons, but that might not hold true this year.

Researchers who care about coral are deeply troubled.

“I do lose sleep over it,” said Andrew Baker, a professor of marine biology at the University of Miami, where he directs the Coral Reef Futures Lab. “But I don’t want to write the eulogy just yet.”

Scientists like Dr. Baker are racing to come up with ways to help coral become more resilient to higher temperatures, for example by crossing Florida’s corals with varieties that seem to withstand more heat. But ultimately, the survival of corals and countless other species relies on the ability of humans to rein in climate change.

“You have to go to the root causes,” Lizzie McLeod, the global oceans director at The Nature Conservancy, said. “We have to be reducing emissions, we have to move to clean energy, we have to reduce subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.”

In Key West, beachgoers expressed surprise at the warmth of the ocean, comparing it to bath water. Lynsi Wavra, a captain and ecotour guide, said her mother had lived there for 20 years and had witnessed the coral declining.

“She’d come home crying,” Ms. Wavra said.

[RomaVicta 30597]

A climate specialist said we'd have to reduce carbon emissions by 50% by 2030 to avert catastrophic consequences. I believe the goal to do that just a year or so ago was 32%. We're doing great.

I think with the melting of permafrost in Russia and the algae dead spots (they're huge like hundreds of square miles) that result from Phosphorus used in fertilizer finding its way into the water among other lesser known problems, we're fucked. A massive algae deadspot occurs in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico every summer. The algae take up all the oxygen so other life has to leave or die.

Maybe we should nationalize car production and turn out a modern Volkswagen that gets high mileage and produces as little carbon as possible. We'd all be driving light vehicles, so people in huge SUVs would no longer kill people in small cars when they collide.

Instead, lets scoff at California's sincere efforts to reduce carbon. I'm not sure it falls under woke-ism, but maybe it should. Empathy, tolerance, and willingness to sacrifice fucking hamburgers and needless heavy vehicles to mitigate disaster for everyone younger than the (we) Boomers is to be resisted! Wipeout woke-ism and social justice warriors!

Sorry, Greta.

Truly Sorry.

And ashamed.

[Biff Tannen 46168]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

What are people complaining about? It's just summer -- the water is supposed to be 90 degrees.

 

How Hot Is the Sea Off Florida Right Now? Think 90s Fahrenheit.
Researchers are recording ocean temperatures that pose severe risks to coral reefs and other marine life.

Florida’s coral reefs are facing what could be an unprecedented threat from a marine heat wave that is warming the Gulf of Mexico, pushing water temperatures into the 90s Fahrenheit.

The biggest concern for coral isn’t just the current sea surface temperatures in the Florida Keys, even though they are the hottest on record. The daily average surface temperature off the Keys on Monday was just over 90 degrees Fahrenheit, or 32.4 Celsius, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

The real worry, scientists say, is that it’s only July. Corals typically experience the most heat stress in August and September.

“We’re entering uncharted territories,” Derek Manzello, an ecologist and the coordinator of NOAA’s Coral Reef Watch program, said.

Coral reefs are natural wonders that support myriad species and blunt damage from storms. In the United States, reefs generate economic benefits to the tune of $3.4 billion annually for fisheries, tourism and coastal protection, according to NOAA.

But oceans have absorbed some 90 percent of the additional heat caused by humans as we burn fossil fuels and destroy forests. When sea temperatures rise too high, corals bleach, expelling the algae they need for sustenance. If waters don’t cool quickly enough, or if bleaching events happen in close succession, the corals die. For decades, scientists have been warning that climate change is an existential threat to coral reefs. Already, the world has lost a huge proportion of its coral reefs, perhaps half since 1950.

“To be blunt, it can be very depressing,” Dr. Manzello said. “Unfortunately, I’m a scientist watching it happen.”

Marine heat isn’t just affecting the Gulf of Mexico. Globally, about 40 percent of the planet is experiencing a marine heat wave, according to Dillon Amaya, a physical scientist at NOAA who studies them.

“Florida is one patch in a terrible quilt right now,” Dr. Amaya said.

In part, that’s because the planet is entering a natural climate phenomenon known as El Niño, which typically brings warmer oceans. But now, El Niño is coming on top of long-term warming caused by greenhouse gas emissions.

While coral is especially vulnerable, heat waves harm untold species, and the effects are different around the world, as species are adapted to different temperature ranges.

In general, fish need more oxygen when the water is warmer. That’s a problem, because warmer water holds less oxygen.

“Large-scale fish kills are becoming more frequent as our climate changes,” Martin Grosell, a professor of ichthyology at the University of Miami, said.

Coral reefs are particularly important because so many species rely on them. About 25 percent of all marine life, including more than 4,000 kinds of fish, depend on reefs at some point in their lives, according to NOAA.

While there aren’t yet reports of bleaching in Florida, it has already begun on reefs to the south, Dr. Manzello said, off Belize, Mexico, El Salvador, Costa Rica and Colombia.

Florida’s coral reef system stretches about 350 miles, from the St. Lucie inlet on the mainland south and west past the end of the Keys, and is frequented by sea turtles, manta rays, flounder and lobster.

What happens in Florida will depend on conditions over the next few weeks. Storms, which churn up deeper, cooler water and reduce sunshine, could provide relief, scientists say. El Niño periods are typically associated with below-average Atlantic hurricane seasons, but that might not hold true this year.

Researchers who care about coral are deeply troubled.

“I do lose sleep over it,” said Andrew Baker, a professor of marine biology at the University of Miami, where he directs the Coral Reef Futures Lab. “But I don’t want to write the eulogy just yet.”

Scientists like Dr. Baker are racing to come up with ways to help coral become more resilient to higher temperatures, for example by crossing Florida’s corals with varieties that seem to withstand more heat. But ultimately, the survival of corals and countless other species relies on the ability of humans to rein in climate change.

“You have to go to the root causes,” Lizzie McLeod, the global oceans director at The Nature Conservancy, said. “We have to be reducing emissions, we have to move to clean energy, we have to reduce subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.”

In Key West, beachgoers expressed surprise at the warmth of the ocean, comparing it to bath water. Lynsi Wavra, a captain and ecotour guide, said her mother had lived there for 20 years and had witnessed the coral declining.

“She’d come home crying,” Ms. Wavra said.

Pfft.  These people are all paid to say these things.  /DT

Edited July 12, 2023 by Biff Tannen

[RomaVicta 30597]

A massive flock of parrots.

It must be true, I heard it from a parrot!

[mdmost 44056]

Everything's great. We're doing great. We're so f'ed.

https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2023/07/12/1187045050/fresh-air-for-july-12-2023-the-earths-deadly-new-climate-regime?showDate=2023-07-12