The Climate thread

[ADHD 28]

The disappear.

[ADHD 28]

^ this is how to do art.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

First off, fuck ADHD.

Second, sea rise is already impacting Miami-Dade's tens of thousands of septic tanks .... and it's going to cost billions of dollars to fix this problem.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article224132115.html

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

First off, fuck ADHD.

Second, sea rise is already impacting Miami-Dade's tens of thousands of septic tanks .... and it's going to cost billions of dollars to fix this problem.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article224132115.html

“The best response is sewer extension, but obviously that infrastructure takes quite a bit of planning and time,” said Katherine Hageman, the county’s resilience program manager.

“And money,” County Chief Resilience Officer James Murley added.

Ripping out every septic tank and laying down new pipes to connect the homes to the county’s sewer system won’t be cheap. The latest estimate put the price tag at $3.3 billion.

“Who has that?” said Commissioner Rebeca Sosa, who called for the study. “We need to act as fast as possible. We need to get as much assistance as we can from the federal government, from the state.”

 

Fuck that and fuck them. They can rot in their own shit, or they can pay for it themselves, or they can fucking move. They were told 30 or more years ago sea levels were rising.

 

 

[Incredulity 11671]

21 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

“The best response is sewer extension, but obviously that infrastructure takes quite a bit of planning and time,” said Katherine Hageman, the county’s resilience program manager.

“And money,” County Chief Resilience Officer James Murley added.

Ripping out every septic tank and laying down new pipes to connect the homes to the county’s sewer system won’t be cheap. The latest estimate put the price tag at $3.3 billion.

“Who has that?” said Commissioner Rebeca Sosa, who called for the study. “We need to act as fast as possible. We need to get as much assistance as we can from the federal government, from the state.”

 

Fuck that and fuck them. They can rot in their own shit, or they can pay for it themselves, or they can fucking move. They were told 30 or more years ago sea levels were rising.

 

 

And the theoretical problem in the article is still 21 years away.

 

Nice picture of the 2016 King Tide though, as well as this quote

 

Quote

“That’s a huge deal for a developed country in 2019 to have half of the septic tanks not functioning for part of the year,” 

  Implies that the 40% predicted failure is currently happening.

 

 

So they need 3.3 billion over 21 years.  Not 3.3 billion tomorrow.

 

[Dahobbs 17534]

30 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

And the theoretical problem in the article is still 21 years away.

 

Nice picture of the 2016 King Tide though, as well as this quote

 

  Implies that the 40% predicted failure is currently happening.

 

 

So they need 3.3 billion over 21 years.  Not 3.3 billion tomorrow.

 

Yeah, I mean, it isn't like huge public works are planned and budgeted decades in advance. You can do it like the day before, no big deal. 

[Incredulity 11671]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, I mean, it isn't like huge public works are planned and budgeted decades in advance. You can do it like the day before, no big deal. 

Of course they are.  That's my point.  

Also,  3.3 billion is a TON of sewer piping work.  It has to include some significant wastewater treatment plants.

[Dahobbs 17534]

16 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Of course they are.  That's my point.  

Also,  3.3 billion is a TON of sewer piping work.  It has to include some significant wastewater treatment plants.

Was it? I thought you were trying to minimize the problem. Also, maybe read the first sentence of the article. The issues are happening now:

Quote

Miami-Dade has tens of thousands of septic tanks, and a new report reveals most are already malfunctioning — the smelly and unhealthy evidence of which often ends up in people’s yards and homes. It’s a billion-dollar problem that climate change is making worse.

As sea level rise encroaches on South Florida, the Miami-Dade County study shows that thousands more residents may be at risk — and soon. By 2040, 64 percent of county septic tanks (more than 67,000) could have issues every year, affecting not only the people who rely on them for sewage treatment, but the region’s water supply and the health of anyone who wades through floodwaters.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Dahobbs

[Incredulity 11671]

43 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Was it? I thought you were trying to minimize the problem. Also, maybe read the first sentence of the article. The issues are happening now:

I was criticizing the articles framing of the specific issue.

 

Frankly, if it is a lead pipe lock that the sea is going to rise 15 inches in the next 20 years they should be working on a Denmark type of infrastructure solution, or evacuating.

 

Putting 3.3 billion into where shit goes is pissing in the breeze.

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

I was criticizing the articles framing of the specific issue.

That framing that was entirely accurate? "Most" = at least 50 percent. Bigger problems are on the horizon, but the article positively stated that most of units are already having troubles. It also positively stated that the 3.3 billion was for future planning. If you're going to be a pedantic ass, you had better be correct. 

[Incredulity 11671]

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That framing that was entirely accurate? "Most" = at least 50 percent. Bigger problems are on the horizon, but the article positively stated that most of units are already having troubles. It also positively stated that the 3.3 billion was for future planning. If you're going to be a pedantic ass, you had better be correct. 

Read the report.

Most are at risk.  Most are NOT failing.

 

They were built to half assed standard. 

 

Again, if the report is gospel, the conclusion shouldn't be we need better sewers.  The conclusion should be we need seawalls, dikes and land reclamation.

[Dahobbs 17534]

18 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Read the report.

Most are at risk.  Most are NOT failing.

 

I did. Yes, most are at risk of periodic failing based on ground water conditions. This wasn't a survey of individual units, but scientific estimate of units that are likely compromised, even if the owners are not aware of it. You stated it is only a "future" problem. It isn't. It is problem now. And it will be a bigger problem in the future.  

"Within the next 25 years, the County can expect the number of residential systems that may be periodically compromised during storms or wet years to significantly increase from approximately 56% today (58,349 parcels) to more than 64% by 2040 (67,234 parcels)."

 

 

[Incredulity 11671]

27 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I did. Yes, most are at risk of periodic failing based on ground water conditions. This wasn't a survey of individual units, but scientific estimate of units that are likely compromised, even if the owners are not aware of it. You stated it is only a "future" problem. It isn't. It is problem now. And it will be a bigger problem in the future.  

"Within the next 25 years, the County can expect the number of residential systems that may be periodically compromised during storms or wet years to significantly increase from approximately 56% today (58,349 parcels) to more than 64% by 2040 (67,234 parcels)."

 

 

and we need a historical.

I assure you with a 12" standard it wasn't zero.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

The sea has been rising for thousands of years, and there is no evidence of any increase due to CO2. So as far as sewers in Miami, it's "climate change" but it's not AGW. Here's Florida 18,000 years ago.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[Fozzz 152]

This article rules.

Quote

Corporate America Is Getting Ready to Monetize Climate Change

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-22/muggy-disney-parks-downed-at-t-towers-firms-tally-climate-risk

[David Dennison 18860]

On 1/19/2019 at 11:51 AM, Thetexashammer said:

The sea has been rising for thousands of years, and there is no evidence of any increase due to CO2. So as far as sewers in Miami, it's "climate change" but it's not AGW. Here's Florida 18,000 years ago.

There is a shitload (scientific term) of evidence that it's because of CO2. The evidence is overwhelming.

[bolverk 29672]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

There is a shitload (scientific term) of evidence that it's because of CO2. The evidence is overwhelming.

Dude, you're addressing a poster who is probably the dumbest person on this board. And, yes, I'd even go so far as saying he's more stupid than either Rocko or Swam. Not only is he a complete imbecile but he is also a brainwashed one at that.

There might be some equally indoctrinated right-wingers on Surly, but there are none who combine both the empty-headed logic and broken critical thinking skills as his greatness, THE TEXAS HAMMER!!! 🔨🔨🔨 echo echo echo

There is no point in responding to any of his posts other than to occasionally drop in a photo of a box of (Texas) hammers.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

First google image that came up on my search.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

That's odd. I wonder what happened around 1850 to cause the sudden rise? Must be a mystery of the universe.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

Yeah, it is almost like the best solution is a big international treaty that gets as many nations involved as possible. Maybe we should look into that?

Except that "treaty" really didn't hold anyone accountable for anything. And if it were truly a treaty, the only body that can bind the US is Congress. I'm all for a global treaty, but you have to hold the really bad actors (looking at you India and China (and probably Russia as well)) accountable. Then you have to get out terrible fucking Congress to ratify the damned thing.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

Read the article. Look at the profiles. Obama didn’t kill coal. Natural gas did. Easily extractable and plentiful gas (fracking) is cheap. And it allows for quick-start plants to handle peaking needs. Industry followed the law of economics.

Actually, the market killed coal. It was really interesting. Multiple things happened. First, nat has got really cheap. Then, international demand sent coal prices up. It. Became uneconomic to run coal plants.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

I recall listening to some natural gas traders circa 2009.  They mentioned that electrical generation industry finally came to believe in a consistent natural gas supply.  Before there was uncertainty about the supply.    They were very bullish on the future of natural gas becoming dominant.
i don’t claim to understand it but I recall the comment.
 

Well, that's because at one point, there were beliefs we only had 20-30 years of nat gas vs. Coal (hundreds) and oil (100-200). But then shale, better technology, and other things all converged.

[EuroHorn 3264]

39 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

On 12/26/2018 at 8:39 PM, Brisketexan said:

Read the article. Look at the profiles. Obama didn’t kill coal. Natural gas did. Easily extractable and plentiful gas (fracking) is cheap. And it allows for quick-start plants to handle peaking needs. Industry followed the law of economics.

Actually, the market killed coal. It was really interesting. Multiple things happened. First, nat has got really cheap. Then, international demand sent coal prices up. It. Became uneconomic to run coal plants in the US

 

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

56 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

That's odd. I wonder what happened around 1850 to cause the sudden rise? Must be a mystery of the universe.

A coincidence of geological proportions. 

[bolverk 29672]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

That's odd. I wonder what happened around 1850 to cause the sudden rise? Must be a mystery of the universe.

 

11 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

A coincidence of geological proportions. 

imgur

[David Dennison 18860]

 

1 hour ago, Thetexashammer said:

First google image that came up on my search.

Thanks for proving our point.

Amazing.

Edited January 23, 2019 by David Dennison

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Well since you raise a point of fact, I will respond to it. Before I give my abbreviated response, I want to state that I have in fact read Daniel Yergin's The Prize, from cover to cover. It is a great history of the oil industry. It's kind of like the Doctor Zhivago of oil. I do recommend it.

So getting back to the subject. Originally, oil was mainly harvested from places where it seeped from the ground. People found it could be used for lamps, because back in that day, when the sun went down, it was pretty much dark everywhere. Torches of wood were all they had before that. Drilling technology really didn't exist. So before cars they made some kerosene, but it was pretty limited in scale.

Indeed the Henry Ford company was credited with forming the basis of modern industrialization through standardization of parts. Before him, every product made was essentially a custom product. Every gun in the civil war. Every car. Every lamp. Every single thing. Henry Ford created mass production as we know it. He was a genius. He didn't start Ford Motor Company until 1903. He went bankrupt twice before that. So "cars" weren't a thing before 1903. And even then, they were just barely a fraction of what they are now. 

The very first central power station only became operational in 1881. (I had to look this up when I realized you would be concerned about other CO2 emission sources). It powered 57 lights and failed by 1882 and it was hydroelectric. So no coal plants, and certainly not coal plants on the scale we see today.

Even when the first cars were produced in the early 1900's, many of them were electric. Because electric motors were a proven technology, and nobody knew where you would get fuel for an internal combustion engine. Electric vehicles held the land speed record until 1900. It was seen by many as the preferred technology. Internal combustion engines are really complex in comparison, and the refining infrastructure for crude oil as we know it today, again, simply didn't exist. 

The reason that internal combustion won out then, as today, is the energy density. Oil (and its derivatives) just has too much energy in too practical a form. I love electric cars but they gotta fix that whole battery problem and there's no reason to believe they will. If they do, "gas" will drop from $2 per gallon to $0.20 or so. Very nice /Borat.

So serious drilling didn't happen until the mid 20th century, when the internal combustion engine became ubiquitous. Really, not until after WWII. CO2 emissions likewise aren't anything until after WWII. Azerbaijan, the Saudis, they were poor Bedouins until then. The car drove emissions (and global politics), but that wasn't a common form of transportation until far, far later than 1850. 

But to answer the question, in 1950 California became the 31st state. What do I win?

Edited January 23, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[bolverk 29672]

7 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

What do I win?

 

[Brisketexan 105139]

Wow. You really don’t know anything about hydrocarbons, do you? You almost completely skip over coal, considering it only in the context of power generation.
You should read more. A lot more. Start here:

[bolverk 29672]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wow. You really don’t know anything about hydrocarbons, do you? You almost completely skip over coal, considering it only in the context of power generation.
You should read more. A lot more. Start here:

Not to mention the apparent misdating of the "Little Ice Age." It's like these idiots have never heard of the Industrial Revolution before, which was largely a byproduct of fucking coal.

[TexArcher 37774]

On 1/19/2019 at 11:51 AM, Thetexashammer said:

The sea has been rising for thousands of years, and there is no evidence of any increase due to CO2.

97% of the world's climatologists disagree with you, but we all know they're all on MSNBC's payroll.  

[happyfunball 481]

Lulz when cuckservatives own themself 

Edited January 23, 2019 by happyfunball

[Horn Dog 9855]

Ha ha libtards!  Its so cold today.  Now where is your “global warming”!

[Born to Run 6569]

Well since you raise a point of fact, I will respond to it. Before I give my abbreviated response, I want to state that I have in fact read Daniel Yergin's The Prize, from cover to cover. It is a great history of the oil industry. It's kind of like the Doctor Zhivago of oil. I do recommend it.
So getting back to the subject. Originally, oil was mainly harvested from places where it seeped from the ground. People found it could be used for lamps, because back in that day, when the sun went down, it was pretty much dark everywhere. Torches of wood were all they had before that. Drilling technology really didn't exist. So before cars they made some kerosene, but it was pretty limited in scale.
Indeed the Henry Ford company was credited with forming the basis of modern industrialization through standardization of parts. Before him, every product made was essentially a custom product. Every gun in the civil war. Every car. Every lamp. Every single thing. Henry Ford created mass production as we know it. He was a genius. He didn't start Ford Motor Company until 1903. He went bankrupt twice before that. So "cars" weren't a thing before 1903. And even then, they were just barely a fraction of what they are now. 
The very first central power station only became operational in 1881. (I had to look this up when I realized you would be concerned about other CO2 emission sources). It powered 57 lights and failed by 1882 and it was hydroelectric. So no coal plants, and certainly not coal plants on the scale we see today.
Even when the first cars were produced in the early 1900's, many of them were electric. Because electric motors were a proven technology, and nobody knew where you would get fuel for an internal combustion engine. Electric vehicles held the land speed record until 1900. It was seen by many as the preferred technology. Internal combustion engines are really complex in comparison, and the refining infrastructure for crude oil as we know it today, again, simply didn't exist. 
The reason that internal combustion won out then, as today, is the energy density. Oil (and its derivatives) just has too much energy in too practical a form. I love electric cars but they gotta fix that whole battery problem and there's no reason to believe they will. If they do, "gas" will drop from $2 per gallon to $0.20 or so. Very nice /Borat.
So serious drilling didn't happen until the mid 20th century, when the internal combustion engine became ubiquitous. Really, not until after WWII. CO2 emissions likewise aren't anything until after WWII. Azerbaijan, the Saudis, they were poor Bedouins until then. The car drove emissions (and global politics), but that wasn't a common form of transportation until far, far later than 1850. 
But to answer the question, in 1950 California became the 31st state. What do I win?

The depth of your stupidity really is breathtaking.

[Parliament 14260]

https://www.sciencealert.com/giant-void-identified-under-antarctica-reveals-a-monumental-hidden-ice-retreat/amp

Now, a stunning new void has been revealed amidst this massive vanishing act, and it's a big one: a gigantic cavity growing under West Antarctica that scientists say covers two-thirds the footprint of Manhattan and stands almost 300 metres (984 ft) tall.
This huge opening at the bottom of the Thwaites Glacier – a mass infamously dubbed the "most dangerous glacier in the world" – is so big it represents an overt chunk of the estimated 252 billion tonnes of ice Antarctica loses every year.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

On 1/30/2019 at 11:42 AM, Born to Run said:

 

The depth of your stupidity really is breathtaking.

 

 

The man thinks that California became the 31st state in 1950.  It's quite astonishing that he even has the right to read this board, let alone post here.

Meanwhile, Australia is suffering from the worst heat on record.  It's nightmarish. And the worst is yet to come. 


 

Quote

Week after week, temperatures have continued to rise with all of the country's eight states and territories affected. Across the country, roads have melted, infrastructure has failed and both animals and fish have died en masse.

The southern city of Adelaide experienced its hottest day on record on January 24, reaching 46.6 C (116 F). On Friday, Australia's Bureau of Meteorology announced it had been the country's hottest January on record, describing the weather as "unprecedented."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-is-sweltering-through-record-breaking-heat-and-the-worst-is-yet-to-come/ar-BBT1vrQ?ocid=spartandhp

Edited February 1, 2019 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

Antarctica has lost a staggering amount of ice over the last 25 years and is currently losing 220 billion tons per year.  It is, of course, the largest ice sheet on earth. 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/satellite-images-show-antarctica-s-ice-melt-rapidly-increasing

[Mdhorn 5949]

Heard a good comparison that simplifies weather/climate debate:  Weather is your mood but climate is your personality.  

[Lurch 5930]

This is a fantastically educational (for me, at least!) article, and a good primer on what tackling climate change, policy-wise, really entails

https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/15/how-to-decarbonize-america-and-the-world/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Lurch 5930]

Heard a good comparison that simplifies weather/climate debate:  Weather is your mood but climate is your personality.  

Right. So, you may be a happy person in general, but you still may get angry at something. Perhaps as you get older, you become MORE happy (climate change), but that doesn’t mean you never become pissed off (severe cold snap) any more.

The climate is getting warmer. This does not mean that severe cold snaps don’t happen.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

If the global mean temperature was a stock, it would be a very good investment. Like any stock, it doesn't rise in value every day, it fluctuates. But over the long term it's showing a guaranteed profit. You'd be a fool to sell. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

And Republicans want to take advantage by opening up the arctic to drilling. Goddamn fools. 

[bolverk 29672]

Incredibly poor timing and use of language by this guy.

‘I’m an ethnic. I’m a Westerner’: Rep. Rob Bishop says Green New Deal is ‘tantamount to genocide’

Opponents of the Green New Deal have fired off a slew of increasingly hyperbolic attacks in recent months, from falsely claiming that it would outlaw hamburgers and ban air travel to contending that it would turn the United States into a socialist nation. On Thursday, one member of the House Natural Resources Committee took things even further, equating the ambitious climate plan to some of the worst atrocities committed by mankind before walking back the remarks as a joke hours later.

“For many people who live in the West, but also in rural and urban areas, the ideas behind the Green New Deal are tantamount to genocide,” Rep. Rob Bishop (R-Utah) said at a news conference held with other GOP House members in Washington. “That may be an overstatement, but not by a whole lot.”

Bishop, a nine-term lawmaker who previously worked as a history teacher, has been one of the most aggressive critics of the sweeping proposal, which seeks to combat climate change with a shift to renewable and zero-emission energy sources while simultaneously restructuring the economy to address income inequality. In his remarks, Bishop argued that the plan had been formulated by people who “judge distance not in miles but in subway stops,” an apparent reference to the resolution’s House sponsor, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.). “The genesis of this concept is really coming from Easterners who live in an urban setting and have no view of what it’s like in the rest of America,” he said.

After the news conference was over, Axios reporter Amy Harder pointed out that the term “genocide” refers to the deliberate mass murder of a particular national or ethnic group and asked Bishop how the Green New Deal fits that definition.

“I’m an ethnic,” Bishop said. “I’m a Westerner.”

“And you think the Green New Deal is going to kill you?” Harder asked.

“If you actually implement everything they want to,” Bishop replied. “Killing would be positive if you implement everything the Green New Deal actually wants to.”

Spoiler

 

Representatives for Bishop didn’t immediately respond late Thursday night to questions about what the congressman, who is white, had meant by saying that he was “an ethnic,” and if he was intending to imply that living in the West was comparable to being a racial or religious minority. According to the E & E News, an energy and environmental policy news site, Bishop continued to defend the comparison to genocide after the news conference ended, telling reporters, “That’s what it’s going to call for because it really is theoretical ideas from people who live in urban settings that have no concept of what it is to live far distances from your neighbor . . . . They don’t understand the West at all."

Bishop’s overheated rhetoric was immediately condemned by critics on the left, who accused him of trivializing white settlers’ mass slaughter of Native Americans and other real genocides that have taken place throughout history. A spokesman for Ocasio-Cortez told the Hill that the remarks were “misleading and offensive,” while the Utah Democratic Party denounced his claims as "not only baseless but also incredibly insensitive.”

J Street, a liberal Jewish lobbying group, responded, “This is just disgusting. To compare environmental protections to the targeted decimation of a population is disturbing and dangerous.”

Speaking to E & E News, Natural Resources Committee Chairman Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.) said that he was surprised by Bishop’s remarks and pointed out that Congress has voted to condemn hate speech on multiple occasions in recent months after other members’ comments led to controversy. “My friend, Mr. Bishop, is usually a little more circumspect than that and usually doesn’t make those kinds of declarations,” he said. “So what does that tell me? There’s a little bit of desperation in the tone.”

Later on Thursday, Bishop said in a statement to the Salt Lake Tribune that he had been joking, but that he fully believed that the plan would be catastrophic. “My comments were obviously not meant literally, and should not detract from the fact that the so-called Green New Deal is born of attitudes that show no respect for the lives and livelihoods of the American people,” he said.

Bishop, who represents a vast rural district spanning much of northern Utah, has been described as a thorn in the side of Democrats hoping to pursue an aggressive environmental agenda. Before Democrats took control of the House in January, he served as the Natural Resources Committee’s chairman for four years and repeatedly feuded with the outdoor apparel company Patagonia and environmental groups like the Natural Resources Defense Council over their lobbying efforts. Meanwhile, after famously saying in 2016 that he “would be happy to invalidate the Endangered Species Act,” he championed bills that critics warned would do exactly that. Since being replaced by Grijalva as chairman, Bishop has been highly critical of the committee’s new focus on climate change, claiming that the issue falls outside its jurisdiction.

Last month, at yet another news conference criticizing the Green New Deal, he pulled out a hamburger from Good Stuff Eatery mid-speech and began eating it as he accused Democrats and environmentalists of wanting to control his life.

“If this goes through, this will be outlawed,” he said in between bites. “I can no longer eat this kind of thing. So before they take it away from me, before it’s illegal and an endangered species, I’m actually going to enjoy this a whole lot more than I would the Green New Deal.”

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45685]

He is 67.  He'll be dead soon.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

And too late. 

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

Imagine some dipshit standing on the tip of that ship saying "How can we be sinking, I'm rising higher and higher?"

Perfect analogy to the dipshit saying "Sure could use some of that global warming right now, huh huh huh" during a snowstorm.

[elfenix 34240]

exxon's scientists told them back in 1978 that this shit was real.  then the oil market tanked, their ability to fund research and branch into other business tanked, and so they decided to double down on oil and gaslight the public into thinking this shit isn't real.  literally every climate denialist you've ever heard has gaslighted you.  the original draft of API's response to the first IPCC paper in mid 90s debunked their own fucking "alternative explanations."   their main target: older conservative less educated men, the most gullible segment of society.  and everybody knew their were doing it because the new york times published their memo on how they would gaslight the public on the front fucking page.  thanks for ruining the planet, assholes. 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by elfenix

[Parliament 14260]

There's some kinda "Global Youth Climate Strike" going on today.  Teenager at the St. Paul protest said Global Warming will hurt LGBTQ folks worse than regular people.  She gave reasons that went over my head.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

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