The Climate thread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Nobel Peace Prize nominee

[Dropout 355]

Greta is an awesome and inspiring leader.

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Dropout

[tantric superman 4,668]

SIAP:  Anyone know anything about this outfit?

#republicEN

https://www.republicen.org/

I heard former Sen. Bob Ingles on a short podcast (Trump on Earth) where he made about 1000% more sense than a blathering research fellow from the Brookings Inst.  In fairness, the host didn't rein the GND guy in at all. 

I mean, it can't just be a carbon tax -- but a carbon tax is a more practical first step than the brainstorming session that is the GND.

[elfenix 34,754]

7 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

SIAP:  Anyone know anything about this outfit?

#republicEN

https://www.republicen.org/

I heard former Sen. Bob Ingles on a short podcast (Trump on Earth) where he made about 1000% more sense than a blathering research fellow from the Brookings Inst.  In fairness, the host didn't rein the GND guy in at all. 

I mean, it can't just be a carbon tax -- but a carbon tax is a more practical first step than the brainstorming session that is the GND.

i prefer a carbon tax but it needs to be priced right, it has to be applied to all sources of carbon and equivalent, and enforcement of it needs some real fucking teeth.  i'm not sure how well any of that can be accomplished.  and the only reason anyone on the right is even talking about it is the overton window has moved so far.  i posted somewhere (probably above) about cornyn retweeting a cato (iirc) thing about the republicans saving the economy from SOCIALISM! with carbon taxes. 

[tantric superman 4,668]

Yep.  Seem to me the first things out of the box to get the ball rolling would be a carbon tax, and a gas tax (with rebate).

 tax/credit on new cars based on MPG with exemption for small business vehicles.

That just seems like the basic, symbolic stuff.  I need to do a lot more research on what the most effective policies are. 

 

[Lurch 5,950]

This is a fantastically educational (for me, at least!) article, and a good primer on what tackling climate change, policy-wise, really entails

https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/15/how-to-decarbonize-america-and-the-world/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I’m going to bump this as a great primer on what those policies need to look like. Carbon emissions is just one piece.

[elfenix 34,754]

DoE picks winners and losers, guarantees $3.7 billion loan to nuke project, on top of $8.3 billion in guarantees already extant for this project:

https://www.energy.gov/articles/secretary-perry-announces-financial-close-additional-loan-guarantees-during-trip-vogtle

Chances of fox solyndra-ing this? I'm going with 0.

[Parliament 14,599]

Says it can eliminate 10MM metric tons of carbon emissions. How much wind and/or solar does it take to do that? (I don't know. Just looking for context.)

[4th&Five 42,010]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,932]

The GOP really is the party of stupid. 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,932]

12 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

[Nivek 17,416]

Muddying the waters combined with attacking the messenger is a tried and tried delay tactic. It worked for cigarette manufacturers, and it works here.

[NBMisha 224]

Dude, I only want my tax money spent on just those things that I personally know for certain are needed with respect to my own personal contentment.  

[High Plains Drifter 11,192]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The GOP really is the party of stupid. 

 

Rep Massie: You have a Bachelor's degree, correct?

Kerry:Yes.

Rep Massie: Does your wife know you are a bachelor, sir?

Trumpkins: Ooooh Burn.

[Zavala 1,384]

 

[Zavala 1,384]

Huh never heard of this. Really sad.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/10-rivers-contribute-95-percent-plastic-oceans.htm

[Blotto 24,035]

On 4/11/2019 at 7:08 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

The GOP really is the party of stupid. 

 

Next I would like to draw attention to evidence Sec. Kerry eats dogs. Sir why do you insist on eating canines, they are in fact man's best friend

 

 

 

 

[zork 629]

Meanwhile in Sweden, the Green party there wants:

 

Quote

"We are in the middle of a climate emergency and it is good that so many are now speaking about it," Alice Bah Kuhnke, the party's top candidate in the coming EU election, said at a press conference announcing a new 'climate package'. 

"But pretty words will not solve the climate crisis; that requires strong climate policies." 

 

The conference saw Per Bolund, who has served as a minister since the party entered government in 2014, voted in as the party's new joint leader, replacing former education secretary Gustav Fridolin, who had held the position for eight years. 

 

But members voted down Emma Nohrén, the MP the party leadership had put forward as party secretary, instead choosing Märta Stenevi, the party's leader in Malmö. 

 

After her election, Stenevi said she wanted to tighten the party's focus on climate politics. 

 

"The party needs to come back to its core. We are greens, we are pragmatic idealists. I'm not away from my children so many evenings for piecemeal reforms and budget proposals. It's because there's a bigger issue, the climate issue, which in some ways is the greatest injustice."

 

READ ALSO: Swedish teen’s worldwide strike for climate ‘without precedent’

 

At the press conference on Sunday, Bah Kuhnke pledged to push Brussels to impose a climate levy on US goods imported to Europe should President Donald Trump succeed in his ambition to withdraw the country from the Paris Agreement next year. 

 

"We believe we are going to need to give Trump some of the same medicine as he's been trying to use to compete against us," she told the Dagens Nyheter newspaper, adding that she didn't expect the measure to lead to a damaging trade war. 

 

"Trump has clearly demonstrated his irrational behaviour and he is just rattling with his trade weapon," she said. "We want to make sure that it no longer benefits the USA not to care about our common future." 

 

The Green Party in Sweden has paid a heavy price for its first period in government, winning just 4.41 percent of the vote in last September's General Election, only just above the four percent threshold required to stay in parliament. 

...

https://www.thelocal.se/20190505/half-eu-budget-should-go-on-climate-measures-swedish-greens

[elfenix 34,754]

we're a pox

Quote

The report said 1 million of the planet's 8 million species of plants and animals are at risk of going extinct in the near future. Scientists blame human activities that have led to loss of habitat, climate change, overfishing, pollution and invasive species.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/06/extinction-report-1-million-animals-plants-risk-uns-ipebs-says/1115842001/

[Mapache 1,117]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

we're a pox

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/06/extinction-report-1-million-animals-plants-risk-uns-ipebs-says/1115842001/

Republicans response: "just more fake news". Fucking morons should all choke to death on oil and gas fumes

Edited May 6, 2019 by Mapache

[Biff Tannen 46,174]

53 minutes ago, Mapache said:

Republicans response: "just more fake news". Fucking morons should all choke to death on oil and gas fumes

They will.  Along with the rest of us.

[4th&Five 42,010]

 

[Longhornmaniac8 255]

I'm still waiting for mop to come back and reevaluate his predictions from like 4 years ago.

[bolverk 30,351]

So has Republican leadership finally come around on the science now that they've figured out there are ways their good old buddies also can make a buck off of lowering emissions? What a jaw-dropping about-face.

Quote

 

Cornyn takes on climate change, says 'days of ignoring' emissions are over

WASHINGTON - Texas Senator John Cornyn said Thursday it was time for the United States to take action on climate change, throwing weight behind a growing body of Republicans calling for legislation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

"There is a growing consensus the days of ignoring this issue are over," Cornyn, the former Republican majority whip, said in a conference call with reporters. "If we all agree that reducing emissions is important I think we have a better way of approaching that than the Green New Deal."

The Green New Deal is a proposal from Rep. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, D-N.Y., to rapidly shift the U.S. economy away from fossil fuels, which now counts more than 100 Democratic co-sponsors in the House and Senate, including presidential candidates Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren.

Cornyn is readying to introduce his own legislation on climate change, which he described as "an innovation agenda" to expand federal funding for research into carbon capture technology.

He cited a test project in La Porte named Net Power where engineers have developed a power plant that burns natural gas without releasing any greenhouse gas emissions.

"We can do this without passing new taxes or huge new job killing regulations," he said.

President Donald Trump has been a frequent critic of efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, pulling the United States out of the Paris accord and on the 2016 campaign calling climate change a "a very, very expensive form of tax."

But Cornyn said if Democrats and Republicans could come together on legislation he thought Trump would sign it.

"I'm not sure on his list of priorities where he would put (greenhouse gas emissions)," Cornyn said. "I think he would come along, if Congress was to put a bill on his desk."

 

Edit:

They're going to deny they ever denied now, aren't they?

(We've always been at war with Eastasia.)

Edited May 18, 2019 by bolverk

[WhatTheBuck 28,932]

Trump isn't signing shit, Cornyn. He's using AOC and the Green New Deal as props in his fear-mongering campaign. 

[elfenix 34,754]

a few months ago cornyn was retweeting articles about how the republicans were going to pass a carbon tax to save us from the GND.  and while i think a carbon tax is probably the most efficient solution, the revenues need to be rebated straight back out to the population since they're highly regressive (in my world everyone over the age of 18 would get a share.  maybe 16 year olds could get partial shares.  it basically funds UBI).  who wants to guess the upcoming cornyn bill is a carbon tax that just shoves the funds into general revenue to pay for more corporate/wealthy tax cuts?

 

also the tax needs to be high enough to actually do work.  there's a team at university of chicago calculating the economic cost worldwide, and that's your baseline (because there's non economic costs)

Edited May 18, 2019 by elfenix

[Post Oak 20,570]

Cloud Peak Energy was funding climate denial.  Shocking, I know.

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/16/coal-industry-climate-change-denial-cloud-peak-energy/

 

In 2016, Greg Zimmerman, an environmental activist, stumbled upon a presentation titled “Survival Is Victory: Lessons From the Tobacco Wars.” The slide deck was the creation of Richard Reavey, a vice president for government and public affairs at Cloud Peak Energy, and a former executive at Phillip Morris. Reavey argued that fossil fuel firms, particularly coal, should emulate the tactics of big tobacco, which similarly spent decades battling scientists and regulators over claims that its product harmed public health

Edited May 18, 2019 by Post Oak

[Mapache 1,117]

 

 

[TommyGufano 6,023]

 

 

First they came for the carbon dioxide, and I did not speak out

 

[henrygandorf 29,228]

have any republicans railing against the gnd ever actually read the gnd?

it's a pretty vague overview, and i have to imagine any "competing" strategy will have quite a bit of overlap.

[Post Oak 20,570]

They have no interest in understanding the GND.  They only care about weaponizing it to scare cattle ranchers, coal miners, oil field workers and people my sister is Facebook friends with

[henrygandorf 29,228]

the bill nye stuff was part of the john oliver segment, if anyone wants to watch.

 

[Pato del Muerto 53,543]

6 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

 

 

First they came for the carbon dioxide, and I did not speak out

 

You trying to say the Jews weren’t maligned under hitler?  How dare you sir. How dare you. 

[Zavala 1,384]

 

[Foosters 18,285]

Just a tip Zavala, when you get your "info" from youtube videos short on facts or information, you end up like yourself: going on message boards and telling people that Hitler and the Nazis were actual socialists.

[Bullneck 19,543]

On 4/11/2019 at 8:08 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

The GOP really is the party of stupid. 

 

I will see you opening bid of stupid and raise you (I thought this guy looked familiar).

https://splinternews.com/weird-how-grandstanding-republicans-keep-blocking-disas-1835072750

[Bullneck 19,543]

2 hours ago, Zavala said:

 

Since I don't have the time to sit through 34 minutes of someone who idolizes pictures of RR (and is therefore pretty suspicious), why don't you just summarize it?

[Bullneck 19,543]

On 5/13/2019 at 3:08 PM, Longhornmaniac8 said:

I'm still waiting for mop to come back and reevaluate his predictions from like 4 years ago.

I'm waiting for Cardin Drake to show up and defend the denials he spouted.

[Thetexashammer 1,062]

22 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

I will see you opening bid of stupid and raise you (I thought this guy looked familiar).

https://splinternews.com/weird-how-grandstanding-republicans-keep-blocking-disas-1835072750

Look I'm not defending Republicans here, but won't be true until Guam tips over and the two Vietnams reunite.

[Bullneck 19,543]

38 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Look I'm not defending Republicans here, but won't be true until Guam tips over and the two Vietnams reunite.

The two Viet Nams reunited on April 30, 1975.  So, just waiting on Guam now.

[Thetexashammer 1,062]

8 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

The two Viet Nams reunited on April 30, 1975.  So, just waiting on Guam now.

They must have split up after that, because I know I heard in 2010 they were North and South Vietnam. They're must've broken up after that.

[henrygandorf 29,228]

they're basically fleetwood mac, is what you're saying.

[Bullneck 19,543]

38 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

They must have split up after that, because I know I heard in 2010 they were North and South Vietnam. They're must've broken up after that.

You're right.  After 2010 North Vietnam split into North and East Vietnam.  South Vietnam became South and West Vietnam.  

[Francisco 2.0 32,604]

Might as well stick this here.  It's no longer natural gas, it's "freedom gas".

https://slate.com/business/2019/05/freedom-gas-molecules-of-freedom-department-of-energy.html

Quote

The Trump administration loves fossil fuels, but apparently has decided that they need some rebranding. Or so E&E News editor Ellen Gilmer discovered Tuesday when she opened up what should have been the world’s driest press release.

 

Quote

That’s right. Hydrocarbons shall henceforth be known as “molecules of U.S. freedom.” Proud Americans are fracking compounds of liberty from the glorious shale beds of Texas and shipping it ‘round the world.

Anyway, it gets better. The actual news here is that the Department of Energy gave Houston-based Freeport LNG approval to export gas processed at a new liquefaction plant that the company is set to build at a facility off the coast of Texas. Elsewhere in the government’s press release, U.S. Undersecretary of Energy Mark W. Menezes explains, “Increasing export capacity from the Freeport LNG project is critical to spreading freedom gas throughout the world by giving America’s allies a diverse and affordable source of clean energy.” (Bolds are mine.)

 

Quote

Freedom gas. It appears that turn of phrase originated earlier this month, when Secretary of Energy Rick Perry signed an order aimed at doubling U.S. liquefied natural gas shipments to Europe. At a press briefing in Brussels, he explained that the move would help European nations diversify their energy supply away from Russia, the region’s major supplier of gas. “The United States is again delivering a form of freedom to the European continent,” he said. “And rather than in the form of young American soldiers, it’s in the form of liquefied natural gas.” Afterward, a cheeky reporter from EURACTIV asked whether “freedom gas” would be a correct way to describe the new fuel shipments. “I think you may be correct in your observation,” an apparently inspired Perry responded.

And now it’s the Trump administration’s official line. As one of my colleagues put it, spreading freedom gas sounds like what happens when you’re newly single and suddenly have the apartment to yourself. Which raises the question: Did the Department of Energy mean to make a fart joke in an official statement? Or are we just lucky? The world may never know. 

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 11,192]

Shame they are flaring off a shit ton of "freedom gas" in W. Texas. Instead of exporting it. How many metric tons of flared gas equals one young american soilder?

 

Oh, its not just W. Texas:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/as-north-dakota-oil-soars-so-does-waste-of-natural-gas/ar-AABZbSC?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

[SimonBolivar 11,065]

I assumed this thread saw a bump because The Daily went hard after the Trump  Admin this morning for changing the way climate science is studied by the government.

 

 

[SimonBolivar 11,065]

20 hours ago, Foosters said:

Just a tip Zavala, when you get your "info" from youtube videos short on facts or information, you end up like yourself: going on message boards and telling people that Hitler and the Nazis were actual socialists.

You haven't heard? The right has been yelling that the Nazi's were left wingers for years and years. Political science be damned.

Edited May 29, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[Biff Tannen 46,174]

3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

You haven't heard? The right has been yelling that the Nazi's were left wingers for years and years. Political science be damned.

No Nazi!  No Nazi!  You're the Nazi!

 

That's how a child argues when they know they are wrong.  That's what the president does and that's what his followers do.  Every.  Accusation.  Is.  A.  Confession.

[SimonBolivar 11,065]

16 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

No Nazi!  No Nazi!  You're the Nazi!

 

That's how a child argues when they know they are wrong.  That's what the president does and that's what his followers do.  Every.  Accusation.  Is.  A.  Confession.

It's like the left coming out and saying Stalin was actually a far right winger. It just makes 0 sense.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

18 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

It's like the left coming out and saying Stalin was actually a far right winger. It just makes 0 sense.

I mean, Stalin wasn’t exactly an egalitarian tree hugging hippie either.   

The concept of right/left disappears when authoritarian/fascism comes into play because they can coexist on either side of the political spectrum.  Moves towards fascism can’t be described as entirely conservative because they’re often radical and revolutionary.  They can’t be entirely described as liberal either because the concentration of wealth and power that comes with fascism is anything but liberal. 

Authoritarianism/totalitarianism/Fascism is its own independent ideology that exploits the divisions of the political spectrum.  It’s divide and conquer 24/7.