Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[Woland 733]

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42735
In November 2019, the United States exported 772,000 barrels per day (b/d) more petroleum (crude oil and petroleum products) than it imported, marking the third consecutive month in which the United States was a net petroleum exporter. Although the United States is a net petroleum exporter as a whole, most regions other than the U.S. Gulf Coast region remain net petroleum importers.
 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2021/10/22/the-us-oil-supply-is-still-out-of-balance/?sh=1447b93d7ec3
 

That doesn’t describe energy independence. The United States was still connected to the world market.

[Dutchrudder 11,137]

4 minutes ago, Zeus said:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42735

In November 2019, the United States exported 772,000 barrels per day (b/d) more petroleum (crude oil and petroleum products) than it imported, marking the third consecutive month in which the United States was a net petroleum exporter. Although the United States is a net petroleum exporter as a whole, most regions other than the U.S. Gulf Coast region remain net petroleum importers.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2021/10/22/the-us-oil-supply-is-still-out-of-balance/?sh=1447b93d7ec3

 

Being a Net Exporter of a product does not make your country independent of that product. You're being fed a political talking point that isn't a fact, it's just a dumb one-liner for morons to repeat. Even in 2019 the US still imported about 7million bpd. It's going to take a lot more production to get us "independent", but first we need to figure out how to replace 10 million bpd from Russia...

[Caponata 151]

 

Are gas prices the function of who is president? 

[wildcat09 29,349]

14 hours ago, Zeus said:

I think a few billion people need to starve to death first, but yeah

I didn’t realize Alex Jones posted on Surly. Hi Alex!

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I didn’t realize Alex Jones posted on Surly. Hi Alex!

That was your reaction to that post and mine was:

[DaysOff 7,947]

7 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Being a Net Exporter of a product does not make your country independent of that product. You're being fed a political talking point that isn't a fact, it's just a dumb one-liner for morons to repeat. Even in 2019 the US still imported about 7million bpd. It's going to take a lot more production to get us "independent", but first we need to figure out how to replace 10 million bpd from Russia...

 

An orange baboon appointed someone to the EIA that changed the definition of energy independence in 2018. Ipso fatso we're energy independent you stupid libs.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

16 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

We can't use all of the light sweet crude we produce, and we can't produce all of the heavy sour crude we need.  We're kinda stuck.

We can’t refine all the light sweet we produce because all our refining capacity was built to service the heavy sour imports when we were major importers. No one wants to pay for switching our refining capacity. This isn’t an unsolvable problem. Private companies don’t want to spend Capex. Plus, heavy crude is cheaper than light crude. Yay capitalism. We rely on foreign heavy oil causing oodles of political and economic nightmares and claim “energy independence” so dumb dumbs can chant drill baby drill.

If our county was serious about “energy independence”, it would invest a shit ton in light crude refineries and build the keystone pipeline so Canada’s heavy crude could be refined in our heavy crude refineries and sign a treaty or something so they only sell it to us. We stop importing from Russia and Middle East. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

We can’t refine all the light sweet we produce because all our refining capacity was built to service the heavy sour imports when we were major importers. No one wants to pay for switching our refining capacity. This isn’t an unsolvable problem. Private companies don’t want to spend Capex.

Agreed.  It's also my understanding that there are also issues with cost of transport from light sweet wells to some of the refineries that can deal with it.

[Zeus 6,019]

7 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Being a Net Exporter of a product does not make your country independent of that product. You're being fed a political talking point that isn't a fact, it's just a dumb one-liner for morons to repeat. Even in 2019 the US still imported about 7million bpd. It's going to take a lot more production to get us "independent", but first we need to figure out how to replace 10 million bpd from Russia...

Being a net exporter means exactly that, if other countries decide to stop selling to us (or we need to stop buying) we would be independently producing enough to be fine.

Right now we've decided to stop paying Russia $600M a day and without capacity to balance that out the prices have skyrocketed and fucked the middle class in America again with more inflation.

[aggie08 21,496]

4 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Being a net exporter means exactly that, if other countries decide to stop selling to us (or we need to stop buying) we would be independently producing enough to be fine.

[TXSG8R 3,362]

19 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Being a net exporter means exactly that, if other countries decide to stop selling to us (or we need to stop buying) we would be independently producing enough to be fine.

Right now we've decided to stop paying Russia $600M a day and without capacity to balance that out the prices have skyrocketed and fucked the middle class in America again with more inflation.

This probably deserves a neg for gaslighting or ignorance. I’m not remotely an O&G guy but even I know there’s a couple of massive steps between the Beverly hillbillies and putting gas in my car. If refining capacity doesn’t match what’s being pulled out of the ground, you aren’t energy dependent. If distribution doesn’t match refining input or output, you aren’t energy dependent. 

It doesn’t matter how much we drill if we can’t turn it into gas, diesel, etc, that makes it to the pump/home/factory.  That’s the issue, stop with the bullshit. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

This probably deserves a neg for gaslighting or ignorance. I’m not remotely an O&G guy but even I know there’s a couple of massive steps between the Beverly hillbillies and putting gas in my car. If refining capacity doesn’t match what’s being pulled out of the ground, you aren’t energy dependent. If distribution doesn’t match refining input or output, you aren’t energy dependent. 

It doesn’t matter how much we drill if we can’t turn it into gas, diesel, etc, that makes it to the pump/home/factory.  That’s the issue, stop with the bullshit. 

*independent

*independent

And he'd only need to read this page to see a basic discussion of the issues with different types of crude, different capacity refineries, their location within the US, etc., but I guess that's just too hard.

[TXSG8R 3,362]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

*independent

*independent

And he'd only need to read this page to see a basic discussion of the issues with different types of crude, different capacity refineries, their location within the US, etc., but I guess that's just too hard.

Fucking autocorrect, thx

[bluto 4,916]

As of latest figs I could find US refinery capacity is 18.5M daily barrels give or take, we use over 20M. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

2 minutes ago, bluto said:

As of latest figs I could find US refinery capacity is 18.5M daily barrels give or take, we use over 20M. 

I think we became a net exporter circa 2020 and fell back below that mark last year.

[Zeus 6,019]

15 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

This probably deserves a neg for gaslighting or ignorance. I’m not remotely an O&G guy but even I know there’s a couple of massive steps between the Beverly hillbillies and putting gas in my car. If refining capacity doesn’t match what’s being pulled out of the ground, you aren’t energy dependent. If distribution doesn’t match refining input or output, you aren’t energy dependent. 

It doesn’t matter how much we drill if we can’t turn it into gas, diesel, etc, that makes it to the pump/home/factory.  That’s the issue, stop with the bullshit. 

Step 1: get more oil than you need

Step 2: refine it

We had step 1 down at one point, now we don't, and it's costing us.

Are you are saying we since we don't have step 2 it's all good to just keep buying from the Middle East and Russia instead of producing our own? 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

1 minute ago, Zeus said:

Step 1: get more oil than you need

Step 2: refine it

We had step 1 down at one point, now we don't, and it's costing us.

Are you are saying we since we don't have step 2 it's all good to just keep buying from the Middle East and Russia instead of producing our own? 

Are you mentally slow?

We produce light sweet crude. We don't have enough light sweet crude refineries to make the amount of gasoline we consume. We can extract as much light sweet crude as we want, but it doesn't mean we are energy independent if we can't fucking refine the energy out of the goddam oil. It just means we all swim around in useless vats of light sweet crude. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Are you mentally slow?

At this point it's clear he's just trolling.

[Dutchrudder 11,137]

3 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Step 1: get more oil than you need

Step 2: refine it

We had step 1 down at one point, now we don't, and it's costing us.

Are you are saying we since we don't have step 2 it's all good to just keep buying from the Middle East and Russia instead of producing our own? 

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you don't know shit about the oil industry, and you have no idea why our producers dropped production significantly at the end of 2019. But by all means, show us your O&G industry knowledge by explaining it and telling us exactly why we aren't back to net export status now. 

Ill hang up and listen

[Cody2422 271]

There are definitely infrastructure and refining issues with being truly energy independent.  Here is what I don't understand.  We have the answer to all of this in our back yard.  It's not oil long term.  It's not electric vehicles, solar or wind in the short term.  There is a transitional energy that I thought was going to be a larger player when EOM bought XTO.  It's natural gas.  Sure, we don't have filling stations for vehicles, but most city buses run on natural gas or a derivative.  The cost to transition vehicles to run on natural gas is relatively low.  It is cheap, clean and affordable.  But like everything else in society and politics, each side decides to take a stance on either the far right or the far left (oil vs. electric), and fucking ignores the middle ground easier solution, thus fucking the middle and lower class.  Oil is dirty and spills are a true environmental disaster (I'm in the OG industry).  Electric vehicles require raping land to get to the required minerals to build batteries.  Natural gas is the solution.  

[Zeus 6,019]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Are you mentally slow?

We produce light sweet crude. We don't have enough light sweet crude refineries to make the amount of gasoline we consume. We can extract as much light sweet crude as we want, but it doesn't mean we are energy independent if we can't fucking refine the energy out of the goddam oil. It just means we all swim around in useless vats of light sweet crude. 

Sounds like we should incentivize more light sweet crude refineries then.

1 minute ago, Dutchrudder said:

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you don't know shit about the oil industry, and you have no idea why our producers dropped production significantly at the end of 2019. But by all means, show us your O&G industry knowledge by explaining it and telling us exactly why we aren't back to net export status now. 

Ill hang up and listen

I'm not saying we should be a net exporter, I'm saying we should be trying for energy independence. Instead we are regulating ourselves to death and dependent on paying third world countries like Russia. 

Why did our producers drop production? They saw the Covid coming and the price war between SA and Russia coming?

[Biff Tannen 45,673]

11 minutes ago, Cody2422 said:

There are definitely infrastructure and refining issues with being truly energy independent.  Here is what I don't understand.  We have the answer to all of this in our back yard.  It's not oil long term.  It's not electric vehicles, solar or wind in the short term.  There is a transitional energy that I thought was going to be a larger player when EOM bought XTO.  It's natural gas.  Sure, we don't have filling stations for vehicles, but most city buses run on natural gas or a derivative.  The cost to transition vehicles to run on natural gas is relatively low.  It is cheap, clean and affordable.  But like everything else in society and politics, each side decides to take a stance on either the far right or the far left (oil vs. electric), and fucking ignores the middle ground easier solution, thus fucking the middle and lower class.  Oil is dirty and spills are a true environmental disaster (I'm in the OG industry).  Electric vehicles require raping land to get to the required minerals to build batteries.  Natural gas is the solution.  

Not to mention we have so much of it we literally just burn it off.

[Zeus 6,019]

6 minutes ago, Cody2422 said:

There are definitely infrastructure and refining issues with being truly energy independent.  Here is what I don't understand.  We have the answer to all of this in our back yard.  It's not oil long term.  It's not electric vehicles, solar or wind in the short term.  There is a transitional energy that I thought was going to be a larger player when EOM bought XTO.  It's natural gas.  Sure, we don't have filling stations for vehicles, but most city buses run on natural gas or a derivative.  The cost to transition vehicles to run on natural gas is relatively low.  It is cheap, clean and affordable.  But like everything else in society and politics, each side decides to take a stance on either the far right or the far left (oil vs. electric), and fucking ignores the middle ground easier solution, thus fucking the middle and lower class.  Oil is dirty and spills are a true environmental disaster (I'm in the OG industry).  Electric vehicles require raping land to get to the required minerals to build batteries.  Natural gas is the solution.  

Not to mention unless they are being charged by Nuclear/Solar/Wind then they aren't really all that GrEeN either. 

Also if lithium is the only option I don't think there's enough or that it can be extracted fast enough to keep up with demand. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

12 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Why did our producers drop production? They saw the Covid coming and the price war between SA and Russia coming?

Not covid.  Look at a chart of price of WTI and US production -- they both plummeted starting end of 2019.  I would assume production just tracked the price drop, which over the first few months was almost surely SA vs Russia in a price war.

[bluto 4,916]

35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think we became a net exporter circa 2020 and fell back below that mark last year.

Per eia we’ve been monthly net exporters off and on over the last 2 yrs, 7 mos in 2021 we were net exp. Annually net exporters both 20 and 21. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

Just now, bluto said:

Per eia we’ve been monthly net exporters off and on over the last 2 yrs, 7 mos in 2021 we were net exp. Annually net exporters both 20 and 21. 

Thanks.  Maybe it's 2022 that's expected to go back net importer.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

18 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Instead we are regulating ourselves to death and dependent on paying third world countries like Russia. 

We are not regulating ourselves to death. This is a false narrative. Nothing is stopping US producers from producing more regulatory wise. The majority of OG in US in on private land. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

I'll be curious to see if (mainly) Canada can export more heavy crude to the US to help take up the slack.  

[Biff Tannen 45,673]

23 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Not to mention unless they are being charged by Nuclear/Solar/Wind then they aren't really all that GrEeN either. 

Also if lithium is the only option I don't think there's enough or that it can be extracted fast enough to keep up with demand. 

Battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds and lithium isn't/won't be the only option.  To your first point, yes, but still better than using gas and oil to run them.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

1 hour ago, Zeus said:

Being a net exporter means exactly that, if other countries decide to stop selling to us (or we need to stop buying) we would be independently producing enough to be fine.

Right now we've decided to stop paying Russia $600M a day and without capacity to balance that out the prices have skyrocketed and fucked the middle class in America again with more inflation.

Holy shit.  Tell me you do not understand one lick about oil refining without telling me you do not know anything about oil refining.  Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

50 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

At this point it's clear he's just trolling.

This. Neg, do not engage, and move on.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'll be curious to see if (mainly) Canada can export more heavy crude to the US to help take up the slack.  

Transport constraints.  There is really one major pipeline to get all that awesome Canadian crude from Alberta to the Gulf Coast (remember, Alberta's production is landlocked).  Rail could be used, but it is inefficient, expensive, and woe be if there is an accident.  

[bluto 4,916]

26 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

We are not regulating ourselves to death. This is a false narrative. Nothing is stopping US producers from producing more regulatory wise. The majority of OG in US in on private land. 

Correct per quick googles, about 7% of domestic oil comes from public lands

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

 

President Biden will be speaking in Fort Worth today to speak at a VA clinic. Go Joe!

[Horn Dog 9,818]

1 hour ago, Zeus said:

Sounds like we should incentivize more light sweet crude refineries then.

Nah.  That would be socialism.  We need to let the free market offer the proper incentives since I have been told that is always the answer.

[mchookem 16,327]

42 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

We are not regulating ourselves to death. This is a false narrative. Nothing is stopping US producers from producing more regulatory wise. The majority of OG in US in on private land. 

ha. Biden literally just said this lol.

[Zeus 6,019]

5 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Nah.  That would be socialism.  We need to let the free market offer the proper incentives since I have been told that is always the answer.

Free market?

The "incentivize" would be to just relax the costs of all the insane regulations that prevent us from building the refineries. So yeah, let the free market be free.

[Dutchrudder 11,137]

37 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds and lithium isn't/won't be the only option.  To your first point, yes, but still better than using gas and oil to run them.  

And we are investing heavily into Batteries, Solar and Wind right now. This is a projection of future new energy source development:

Funny how coal doesn't even make a blip during the Trump years. I thought he was the most coal friendly president in history??

[Zeus 6,019]

39 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds and lithium isn't/won't be the only option.  To your first point, yes, but still better than using gas and oil to run them.  

Whats the other option?

2 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

And we are investing heavily into Batteries, Solar and Wind right now. This is a projection of future new energy source development:

Funny how coal doesn't even make a blip during the Trump years. I thought he was the most coal friendly president in history??

Batteries? wut?

Interesting how the "other" could be the most efficient and cleanest way to create energy and it's not being done because it's overregulated. France pulled it off. France.

 

[David Dennison 18,854]

Please, Democrats, get your shit together and get the word out.

 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

7 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Free market?

The "incentivize" would be to just relax the costs of all the insane regulations that prevent us from building the refineries. So yeah, let the free market be free.

Please cite the insane regulations stopping these private companies from building new refineries. 
 

 

[David Dennison 18,854]

11 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Free market?

The "incentivize" would be to just relax the costs of all the insane regulations that prevent us from building the refineries. So yeah, let the free market be free.

Free market also means eliminating subsidies.

So yeah, let the free market be free.

[babysdaddy 2,721]

"Putin's price hike".  That's good....don't think it will work but a good line regardless.

 

[Zeus 6,019]

17 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Free market also means eliminating subsidies.

So yeah, let the free market be free.

Agreed, no more subsidies, no more higher taxes. The more the government can fuck off and stay away the better.

 

20 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Please cite the insane regulations stopping these private companies from building new refineries. 

https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard-program/proposal-deny-petitions-small-refinery-exemptions

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-12-14/pdf/2021-26983.pdf

[Zeus 6,019]

25 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

"Putin's price hike".  That's good....don't think it will work but a good line regardless.

 

It will work

People absorb whatever gets repeated on the tee vee

Very few read or uses reason or looks at numbers

Thanks alot pooten!

C'mon Maduro let us in Venezuela pretty please

[TurkeyChew 383]

Sorry if this is a stupid question or already been broached, but could the oil and Russia issues be a catalyst to re-open the Keystone XL Pipeline conversations or is that a loser for the Dems regardless, politically, at this point?

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

49 minutes ago, Zeus said:

IPeople absorb whatever gets repeated on the tee vee

Very few read or uses reason or looks at numbers

That's rich, coming from a troll who refuses to read.

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

2 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Don't get swallowed up by the gas price narrative coming out of the WH.

 

 

Don't try to fool Americans by not plotting with a legitimate Y axis.

Beyond that, the skyrocket at the right edge of the chart seems to be quite in line with the Russian invasion.  Shades of grey, how do they work?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,869]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Don't try to fool Americans by not plotting with a legitimate Y axis.

Beyond that, the skyrocket at the right edge of the chart seems to be quite in line with the Russian invasion.  Shades of grey, how do they work?

you really ought to learn to find the ignore button. I don't know why you continue to ruin it for the rest of us and keep engaging these fucking trolls. 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

you really ought to learn to find the ignore button. I don't know why you continue to ruin it for the rest of us and keep engaging these fucking trolls. 

Sometimes I ignore them, sometimes I don't.

You could ignore me.