Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,869]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sometimes I ignore them, sometimes I don't.

You could ignore me.

[Tom 2,959]

14 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Don't get swallowed up by the gas price propaganda coming out of the WH.

 

 

 

Cool.  Now zoom your graph out a few more years and quit pretending that the price of gas post Saudi-Russia price war and COVID lockdowns was normal during Trump's presidency.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,869]

I'm confused, I thought higher gas prices were a good thing. No? Not everyone here is an oil baron? shit, are there poors here? gross

[HornPhD 1,368]

49 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

Sorry if this is a stupid question or already been broached, but could the oil and Russia issues be a catalyst to re-open the Keystone XL Pipeline conversations or is that a loser for the Dems regardless, politically, at this point?

The Keystone XL pipeline was about 8% complete when construction was halted. From what I read, construction wasn’t scheduled to be completed until 2030. 

[HornPhD 1,368]

27 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Don't get swallowed up by the gas price propaganda coming out of the WH.

 

 

Post the chart that shows the price of gas by year, adjusted for inflation. 

[HornPhD 1,368]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

why cancel the US pipeline then last May lift the Trump sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline? Why would a russia pipeline be OK and a US pipeline be bad?

The XL pipeline (like the current one) would have pumped Canadian oil that would then be exported. The XL pipeline would have transported oil that is not refined into gas for vehicles. 

[Tom 2,959]

13 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Here you go. Highest ever now! New record set! This isn't quite up to date the last few days at the $4.11 price.

Doesn't quite fit that narrative you describe either.

 

It certainly doesn't fit the narrative that you and conservative media try to paint that gas was dirt cheap at $2.00/gallon for four years under Trump and then sky rocketed as soon as Biden was elected because of his policies, hoping everyone will have the memories of goldfish and believe your lies. 

Yes, gas is expensive now.  It's going to be that way for a while.  It's almost like we've had a series of worldwide events affecting the price such as a post-pandemic lockdown boom in demand, an ongoing supply chain crisis, and now a war.  

[Neonmoon 38,129]

1 hour ago, Zeus said:

Agreed, no more subsidies, no more higher taxes. The more the government can fuck off and stay away the better.

 

https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard-program/proposal-deny-petitions-small-refinery-exemptions

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-12-14/pdf/2021-26983.pdf

Do you fucking read what you post?

They EPA denied these EXEMPTION petitions, because these already existing refineries didn't want to comply with the stupid RFS program that is mandated by LAW. 

Do you know what the RFS is? 

https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard-program

George Bush decided the way to decrease foreign oil was to make everyone include fucking ethanol. 

These already existing refineries don't want to include that bullshit.  None of that has anything to do with regulations preventing NEW refineries from being constructed

[Okie State 3,818]

Got damn reading these last few pages is like reading the comments on a Yahoo article. How can people be so misinformed about how energy markets work? Mind bottling.

[aggie08 21,496]

2 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Got damn reading these last few pages is like reading the comments on a Yahoo article. How can people be so misinformed about how energy markets work? Mind bottling.

Easy answer. They're willfully, purposefully misinformed. They like being misinformed as long as it points the finger at people they don't like.

[Okie State 3,818]

Easy answer. They're willfully, purposefully misinformed. They like being misinformed as long as it points the finger at people they don't like.

This is true. As long as you can throw out #FJB then all is good.

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

42 minutes ago, Bravo said:

why cancel the US pipeline then last May lift the Trump sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline? Why would a russia pipeline be OK and a US pipeline be bad?

Because the Trump sanctions were idiotic and we are trying to negate the damage he generated between the US and Germany?

[Nivek 16,923]

56 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

It certainly doesn't fit the narrative that you and conservative media try to paint that gas was dirt cheap at $2.00/gallon for four years under Trump and then sky rocketed as soon as Biden was elected because of his policies, hoping everyone will have the memories of goldfish and believe your lies. 

Yes, gas is expensive now.  It's going to be that way for a while.  It's almost like we've had a series of worldwide events affecting the price such as a post-pandemic lockdown boom in demand, an ongoing supply chain crisis, and now a war.  

I think what Bravo's and his graph are really telling us is that we need to either find a way to re-elect Bill Clinton or his wife.   

 

[TurkeyChew 383]

So, again, does anyone think that the calculus has changed so much that a restitution of the Keystone Pipeline can be revived or is it still a political non-starter? Energy independence (or at least, North American) and the price of oil and instability, etc.?

[hobbes2702 13,032]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

why cancel the US pipeline then last May lift the Trump sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline? Why would a russia pipeline be OK and a US pipeline be bad?

Why do you think the Keystone is a US pipeline? Who owns it? Where does the refined product go?

[hobbes2702 13,032]

1 hour ago, HornPhD said:

The XL pipeline (like the current one) would have pumped Canadian oil that would then be exported. The XL pipeline would have transported oil that is not refined into gas for vehicles. 

Like this is all that’s needed. The Keystone pipeline doesn’t benefit us as a country. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

3 hours ago, Zeus said:

Agreed, no more subsidies, no more higher taxes. The more the government can fuck off and stay away the better.

 

https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard-program/proposal-deny-petitions-small-refinery-exemptions

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-12-14/pdf/2021-26983.pdf

You are so fucking ignorant, it is painful.  

Do us all a favor and stop posting.

[henrygandorf 29,189]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

It's almost like we've had a series of worldwide events affecting the price such as a post-pandemic lockdown boom in demand, an ongoing supply chain crisis, and now a war.  

biden's fault, biden's fault, biden's fault, unless ukraine wins or putin dies then it's trump's doing 100% high fives all around.

[Biff Tannen 45,673]

48 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Why do you think the Keystone is a US pipeline? Who owns it? Where does the refined product go?

It is my understanding the pipeline would take oil from Canada to be refined on our coast and then exported, correct?

[hobbes2702 13,032]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

It is my understanding the pipeline would take oil from Canada to be refined on our coast and then exported, correct?

Correct. Cornell did a study that showed it would like increase price if gasoline specifically in the Midwest because of the diversion to refine at the coast for export.

[DaysOff 7,947]

https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard-program/proposal-deny-petitions-small-refinery-exemptions
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-12-14/pdf/2021-26983.pdf

Will you bitch when a gallon is ten bucks. Outside Saudi and Venezuela we have the cheapest gas on the planet. But sure, let's remove all subsidies.

[elfenix 34,230]

 

50 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

It is my understanding the pipeline would take oil from Canada to be refined on our coast and then exported, correct?

that's what the existing keystone pipeline does.  the keystone XL pipeline would have been a shortcut across some environmentally sensitive regions containing fucktons of fresh water which is used for 30% of all irrigation in the US. 

[Zeus 6,019]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Do you fucking read what you post?

They EPA denied these EXEMPTION petitions, because these already existing refineries didn't want to comply with the stupid RFS program that is mandated by LAW. 

Do you know what the RFS is? 

https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard-program

George Bush decided the way to decrease foreign oil was to make everyone include fucking ethanol. 

These already existing refineries don't want to include that bullshit.  None of that has anything to do with regulations preventing NEW refineries from being constructed

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2020/07/25/first-new-us-oil-refinery-since-1977-targets-bakken-shale-crude/?sh=53ec8bd51a9f

Here is the one new large refinery since 1977 

Approximately 25-50% of costs are regulatory

Today there are about 150 refineries in the US compared to over 300 in '80

There's also not been any nuclear plants built in the US since the 70s

Why? 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,869]

I'm convinced there are several posters on this board that are students and are using surly to help gather information for school or to write their papers. I just haven't pinpointed what grade level yet

[Neonmoon 38,129]

15 minutes ago, Zeus said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2020/07/25/first-new-us-oil-refinery-since-1977-targets-bakken-shale-crude/?sh=53ec8bd51a9f

Here is the one new large refinery since 1977 

Approximately 25-50% of costs are regulatory

Today there are about 150 refineries in the US compared to over 300 in '80

There's also not been any nuclear plants built in the US since the 70s

Why? 

I’m putting you on ignore now. You are either a troll or incapable of processing new information 

[jimmyjazz 45,899]

The sheer ignorance it takes to posit nuclear as an alternative power source to take the heat off current oil demand is mind-boggling.

[elfenix 34,230]

anyway, there isn't enough oil underground in countries not run by murderous kleptocratic assholes to supply the western world, and so the only way the western world can stop sending money hand over fist to murderous kleptocratic assholes is to develop other energy options.  and as a bonus geopolitical goal we also help forestall one of the couple-few active existential threats hanging over the western world. 

[workswithseed 2,102]

 

Good, but stop asking assholes for help.

[Zepol87 9,185]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

biden's fault, biden's fault, biden's fault, unless ukraine wins or putin dies then it's trump's doing 100% high fives all around.

Yep this is how those dumbfucks think. I see and hear it everyday.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

1 hour ago, Zeus said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2020/07/25/first-new-us-oil-refinery-since-1977-targets-bakken-shale-crude/?sh=53ec8bd51a9f

Here is the one new large refinery since 1977 

Approximately 25-50% of costs are regulatory

Today there are about 150 refineries in the US compared to over 300 in '80

There's also not been any nuclear plants built in the US since the 70s

Why? 

Only one new large refinery since 1977?  And no new refineries did massive retools to increase capacity right?  So Motiva didn't more than double the size of Port Arthur in 2012?!? And shockingly, even though there are less refineries, refining capacity has remained pretty constant, increasing a bit each year.

You obviously do not know anything about what you post.  Negged for being an idiot and a troll.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Brisketexan 105,095]

True, but most of the spike was well before any invasion.

It still amazes me that there are people who don’t understand how significant increases in demand can affect a commodity price.
It shouldn’t, because stupid is our brand, but it still does.

[henrygandorf 29,189]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

The sheer ignorance it takes to posit nuclear as an alternative power source to take the heat off current oil demand is mind-boggling.

we need to save all the nuclear we can for the next round of hurricanes because of fake global warming.

[David Dennison 18,854]

 

[Longhornlove 4,813]

53 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

 

That is incredibly misleading. I would think by now people would recognize that energy independence is critical to national security as Biden is begging bad actors all over the globe to produce more oil. Buy American says Biden, just not oil. Our conscious is clean because it isn't produced here, just consumed here right? BS, we should be a net exporter of O&G. Neg away. By the way, I work in the green energy sector, not that anyone cares. It is more scam than you can possibly realize.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Disappointed in America its gonna be Trump vs Biden again

[gmr548 16,576]

It will work
People absorb whatever gets repeated on the tee vee
Very few read or uses reason or looks at numbers

Thanks alot pooten!
C'mon Maduro let us in Venezuela pretty please

The fucking irony of this post after the epic self own you displayed the same day lmao. Tip of the cap to you, sir.

[Dutchrudder 11,137]

35 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

It is my understanding the pipeline would take oil from Canada to be refined on our coast and then exported, correct?

My understanding is that most of the oil that would have been transported through the KXL pipeline is still being produced, but being moved by trains and trucks. So the right wing idea of "adding" 800k bpd to supply is false, but it sure sounds good when you want to complain about gas prices.lockquote widget

[elfenix 34,230]

25 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

That is incredibly misleading. I would think by now people would recognize that energy independence is critical to national security as Biden is begging bad actors all over the globe to produce more oil. Buy American says Biden, just not oil. Our conscious is clean because it isn't produced here, just consumed here right? BS, we should be a net exporter of O&G. Neg away. By the way, I work in the green energy sector, not that anyone cares. It is more scam than you can possibly realize.

net exporter != energy independent.  the only way we could even pretend to be energy independent would be to not sell any overseas along with not needing to import any, and that ain't happening.  even then, the US economy consumes more than it produces so that a lot of energy that is ultimately consumed in the US is expended overseas.

[Zeus 6,019]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/28/maria-bartiromo/us-did-not-double-oil-imports-russia-last-year/

The U.S. did not double oil imports from Russia in the last year

IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT

The most recent data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration shows that the U.S. increased its oil imports from Russia by about 28% in the first 11 months of 2021.

The U.S. did double the amount of crude oil imported from Russia last year. But Russia accounts for only about 3% of overall U.S. crude oil imports in 2021.

I'm fact checked out boomers 

[bolverk 29,661]

27 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

That is incredibly misleading. I would think by now people would recognize that energy independence is critical to national security as Biden is begging bad actors all over the globe to produce more oil. Buy American says Biden, just not oil. Our conscious is clean because it isn't produced here, just consumed here right? BS, we should be a net exporter of O&G. Neg away. By the way, I work in the green energy sector, not that anyone cares. It is more scam than you can possibly realize.

Here's the reality:

US Consumption

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_a.htm

US Production

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=a

 

And the math:

 

I mean how is filling that gap feasible where oil is pumped/traded on the global free-market by private sector companies - not withstanding the type of oil produced in the US (WTI light sweet crude) or the type of product our refineries are tooled to handle (heavy sour) without massive government interference by regulating where and from whom we buy or tell companies what to refine? E&P companies are drilling what they can under the constraints of making a profit and what investors are willing to throw their money at. And alot of that capital has recently been unwilling to invest more in exploration and production because they've gotten burned on their returns since 2014.

Are you proposing we nationalize our oil industry?

 

[TurkeyChew 383]

11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Here's the reality:

US Consumption

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_a.htm

US Production

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=a

 

And the math:

 

I mean how is filling that gap feasible where oil is pumped/traded on the global free-market by private sector companies - not withstanding the type of oil produced in the US (WTI light sweet crude) or the type of product our refineries are tooled to handle (heavy sour) without massive government interference by regulating where and from whom we buy or tell companies what to refine? E&P companies are drilling what they can under the constraints of making a profit and what investors are willing to throw their money at. And alot of that capital has recently been unwilling to invest more in exploration and production because they've gotten burned on their returns since 2014.

Are you proposing we nationalize our oil industry?

 

And ESG

[bolverk 29,661]

Private investors making decisions on building new refineries in West Texas for all that oil:

Quote

 

Kermit residents react to possibility of new oil refinery

Author: Dana Morris
Published: 10:52 PM CDT March 15, 2019
Updated: 10:52 PM CDT March 15, 2019
Facebook Twitter
KERMIT, TX (KWES) - A $1 billion oil refinery could be coming to Winkler County, and the effects could be far reaching across West Texas.

The Meridian Energy Group have secured property just about 4 miles north of Kermit’s city limits where the project is in the environmental assessment stage.

If the company approves the site, construction for the project could begin within the year.

Plans for the refinery layout contain an estimated 3 year completion timeline.

The refinery aims to produce 58,000 barrels of gasoline per day from crude oil.

In affect, this would require thousands of construction jobs, and establish 150 - 200 permanent operational jobs.

This kind of operational influx nearby the Kermit community, containing a population of just over 6,000 people, would mean more local job opportunities and economic prosperity.

Kermit Mayor Jerry Phillips believes the community would welcome the addition.

“I think the community will be happy to see them come. It’ll be a big boost to the Kermit economy,” said Phillips.

Other residents in the community, like Barry Huddleston, see the refinery as a potential source of growth for Kermit.

“You see a lot of companies donating to the community like Apache and Anadarko right here, so I definitely see these companies helping the community to grow,” said Huddleston.

 

^^^ Has it been built? Nope. This was first and last I've heard of that project now three years later.

 

 

Or this one:

Quote

 

In August of 2017, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) approved construction for the first large-scale oil refinery in over 40 years. The Pecos County Oil Refinery is currently in construction outside of Fort Stockton, Texas and is planned to be in full operation by 2019.

This historic occasion signifies tremendous growth and confidence in the oil and gas market. With only 14 smaller facilities being built in the past 40 years, the Pecos County Oil Refinery is planned to be a big project. In fact, this will be the biggest project since the last large-scale refinery was built in 1976.

 

^^^ Well, what the hell happened to this one?

It seems the private investors changed their minds:

Quote

 

MMEX reconfigures Pecos Refinery for green fuels

Sensing changes in the fuel market, MMEX Resources is altering plans for its refinery complex planned near Fort Stockton in Pecos County.

Rather than a distillation unit and a refinery producing conventional fuels, the plants are being reconfigured to produce clean fuels, including ultra-low sulfur diesel and hydrogen. And they’ll be powered by solar power.

“We found we needed to convert our project from conventional midstream to a greener-type project,” Jack Hanks, president and chief executive officer of MMEX, told the Reporter-Telegram in a telephone interview.

The first plant will utilize natural gas feedstock to produced refined products that range from hydrogen to gas-to-liquids and marketable gasoline, kerosene and ultra-low sulfur diesel. Hanks said it could produce 50 tons a day of hydrogen in the first phase and utilize 35 billion cubic feet a day of natural gas as feedstock in the first phase.

The second plant will utilize the lighter crudes and condensate being produced in the region to produced – as well as the high hydrogen sulfide crudes – and process them into ultra-low sulfur diesel and motor grade gasolines.

Hanks explained that the plan had originally been to produce low sulfur diesel that would be used as drilling mud additives and a residual fuel for marine fuel oil. But the volatility in those markets prompted a shift in focus to the greener fuels.

He admitted that part of the reason to focus on greener fuels is to attract investors and due to the shareholders focused on environmental concerns.

“There’s already quite a bit of investor interest and from shareholders excited about ESG,” he said.

The company is working with Polaris Engineering to utilize its proprietary UltraFuels 2 process to process the lighter crudes and condensates into ultra-low sulfur diesel, renewable diesel and gasoline. The company is also negotiating with a European co-developer partner to develop and finance the hydrogen and gas-to-liquids project to produce hydrogen, ultra-low sulfur diesel and gasoline with carbon capture and storage employing steam methane reformer technology utilizing natural gas as the feedstock.

Currently, hydrogen is mainly used in the refining process, said Hanks, and the Fort Stockton location allows for easy transportation by rail or truck to Gulf Coast refineries. He noted that there are efforts to develop hydrogen into a transportation fuel.

“There’s a lot of discussion about developing hydrogen stations for transportation,” he said. “It holds promise if we develop the market.”

In that plant, he said the carbon would be captured and either transported to exploration and production companies for use in enhanced oil recovery projects or sequestered underground.

“We will capture it; the question is, what will be its use?” he said.

There are big plans to provide solar power to the plants – the company formed MMEX Solar Resources in 2018 to facilitate the effort – and Hanks said is negotiating the purchase of two tracts of 640 acres and 300 acres around the site to facilitate the program.

He added that there will be a gas unit or diesel unit to back up the solar power. He hopes to utilize solar and carbon capture tax credits to help finance the work.

The plants will utilize green technology that is widely available, he said.

It’s been a long struggle since MMEX first announced its plans for the refinery, and in that time the world has moved toward more environmentally friendly, social and governance business methods, he said.

With the interest in greener fuels, “Maybe it’s a blessing we’re not up and running,” he said.

Once financing is secured, the construction timeline from the date of financing for each individual project is estimated to be 15 to 18 months before reaching commercial operation for each project.

 

 

[Longhornlove 4,813]

19 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Here's the reality:

US Consumption

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_a.htm

US Production

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=a

 

And the math:

 

I mean how is filling that gap feasible where oil is pumped/traded on the global free-market by private sector companies - not withstanding the type of oil produced in the US (WTI light sweet crude) or the type of product our refineries are tooled to handle (heavy sour) without massive government interference by regulating where and from whom we buy or tell companies what to refine? E&P companies are drilling what they can under the constraints of making a profit and what investors are willing to throw their money at. And alot of that capital has recently been unwilling to invest more in exploration and production because they've gotten burned on their returns since 2014.

Are you proposing we nationalize our oil industry?

 

Uh, no, the government can't even run the post office or balance a budget. They need to get and stay in their lane but they can't help themselves. Too many lobbyists shoving money in pockets I suppose.

Your data just like the post earlier that got me involved in this is, once again misleading but not false.  I'm talking about a net petroleum exporter. Here is some info to look at from the exact website you provided data from.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51338

 

[Longhornlove 4,813]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

My understanding is that most of the oil that would have been transported through the KXL pipeline is still being produced, but being moved by trains and trucks. So the right wing idea of "adding" 800k bpd to supply is false, but it sure sounds good when you want to complain about gas prices.lockquote widget

Most likely correct assumption and I'm not blind to right wing talking points. All media is preying on those that don't research or comprehend. I will say that a pipeline is much a safer(even the Biden Admin admitted this) and cheaper way to transport crude oil. 

[bolverk 29,661]

15 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Uh, no, the government can't even run the post office or balance a budget. They need to get and stay in their lane but they can't help themselves. Too many lobbyists shoving money in pockets I suppose.

Your data just like the post earlier that got me involved in this is, once again misleading but not false.  I'm talking about a net petroleum exporter. Here is some info to look at from the exact website you provided data from.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51338

 

Again, you're not differentiating between the type of oil that's produced in the US compared to what the Gulf Coast refineries are tooled to import. The kind of inputs and outputs matter, and those companies have no reason to retool their plants unless the government gets involved to either incentivize the switchover or order them to do so. Either way, that takes quite a bit of time.

We export what we can't/won't use. Hell, I'm not even sure Cosden (Delek) in BS even refines WTI anymore but vaguely recall it was retooled sometime in the late 80s/90s and switched to refining imported product. But don't quote me on that.

Edit: I'm not even sure why this discussion is occurring in the Biden thread. Is he going to make some pronouncement to change our refining capacity over night to bring oil prices down?

2 Edit: It looks like Cosden gets its feedstock from WTI but they only produce 73,000 bpd - a drop in the bucket.

Our Big Spring refinery receives WTS and WTI crudes by truck from local gathering systems and regional common carrier pipelines.

Edited March 9, 2022 by bolverk

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,395]

1 hour ago, Longhornlove said:

 By the way, I work in the green energy sector, not that anyone cares. It is more scam than you can possibly realize.

Oh horseshit.  Texas is currently getting more than 25% of its electricity from renewables, up from 8% in 2010.    Last year, Texas added more than 7350 megawatts of new wind and solar projects. 

 

[Longhornlove 4,813]

Just now, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Oh horseshit.  Texas is currently getting more than 25% of its electricity from renewables, up from 8% in 2010.    Last year, Texas added more than 7350 megawatts of new wind and solar projects. 

 

I didn't say it didn't work, I said it was a scam. It's about tax payer dollars. Another thing, you think strip mining is environmentally friendly because it isn't. We can't run this country on wind/solar and batteries. Believe it or not you can generate clean power with natural gas, it's just frowned upon because of a stigma of it being a fossil fuel.

[bolverk 29,661]

9 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

I didn't say it didn't work, I said it was a scam. It's about tax payer dollars. Another thing, you think strip mining is environmentally friendly because it isn't. We can't run this country on wind/solar and batteries. Believe it or not you can generate clean power with natural gas, it's just frowned upon because of a stigma of it being a fossil fuel.

The whole damn thing is terribly complicated. But one thing we're not talking about is energy efficiency/conservation. There's a strong chance you and I have this FB friend in common.

 

[Longhornlove 4,813]

6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

The whole damn thing is terribly complicated. But one thing we're not talking about is energy efficiency/conservation. There's a strong chance you and I have this FB friend in common.

 

Possible but I haven't seen that post.  All I can say is, good thing that dude isn't in California. Working on a "green energy " project out here, gas is well over 5 bucks a gallon. Diesel is over 6.

[C-Man 27,214]

I paid $100.57 to fill up my Tahoe this afternoon in East Dallas. This is the first time I've ever surpassed $100 on a single tank of gas for this car. And it was worth every fucking penny. Put one of these stickers on the pump when I finished. Worth. Every. Last. Penny.