Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Zeus said:

Does my family and I get a refund for working and paying for my college? 

Do my taxes now go up to pay back other people's loans?

No. For doing the thing you were supposed to, you can get fucked and enjoy it. Hope you don’t mind 10’s of millions instantly getting a leg up on you. 

[F250 28781]

3 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Does my family and I get a refund for working and paying for my college?

How much could ACC tuition possibly cost twenty years ago?

 

[Vegas64 676]

I only have grad school (federal) loans left. $10k won't pay them all, but I'll sure take the help and I hope they won't be means tested.

[Neonmoon 38129]

21 minutes ago, F250 said:

Does my family and I get a refund for working and paying for my college?

Does my family get a refund for bailing out the auto industry and banks?

Same answer

[Zeus 6093]

22 minutes ago, F250 said:

How much could ACC tuition possibly cost twenty years ago?

Yeah Engineering school at Texas was only like $5500/semester when I went.

I guess I should've saved or invested the money and taken out a loan I never intended on paying back for the $24k per year or whatever the total costs ended up. 

My wife actually did take out loans she never paid back though (pre-school teachers don't make much) so half my tax return would stop getting taken away I guess. She's since stopped working to raise our children so that loan is never getting paid back, especially if they are pretending like they are going to forgive it.

Instead of the government "backing" loans there should've been a free market. That way tuition wouldn't have skyrocketed. 

Also, people who take out loans to party and go to school for underwater basket weaving should get their mcdonalds check garnished until their loans are paid back. 

[F250 28781]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Does my family get a refund for bailing out the auto industry and banks?

Same answer

What kind of voodoo is this?

[Zeus 6093]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

What kind of voodoo is this?

I think tapa replies are probably bugged

 

[Willfully Horn 8029]

36 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

No. For doing the thing you were supposed to, you can get fucked and enjoy it. Hope you don’t mind 10’s of millions instantly getting a leg up on you. 

It is almost like y'all don’t believe a rising tide lifts all ships. Much better to bleed and hamstring as many consumers as possible, amirite? 
 

Who am I kidding? Y’all vote R and history shows fiscal policy is beyond your ken.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[TXSG8R 3362]

1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

It is almost like y'all don’t believe a rising tide lifts all ships. Much better to bleed and hamstring as many consumers as possible, amirite? 

Crab mentality is strong in America. 

[Zeus 6093]

Just now, Willfully Horn said:

It is almost like y'all don’t believe a rising tide lifts all ships. Much better to bleed and hamstring as many consumers as possible, amirite? 

Do I get FREE MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT! for working and paying my tuition?

What about the people who worked and paid off their loans do they get that back?

Spending working people's money to payoff loans of people who didn't work isn't really incentivizing people to work. 

More consumers doesn't equal better economy. More PRODUCTION from work equals a better economy. 

 

Watch this video

 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Not sure what is surprising about that.  If the government is going to dole out student loan forgiveness, all individuals with student loans should be eligible.

 

Agreed. If he’s going to make an unprecedented move with questionable if any legality then can’t have conditions on it. 
 

11 hours ago, gmr548 said:

I’m pro forgiveness but the student loan program needs reform. Otherwise we’re going to be back here in a generation

Massive reform

[The Original Greaser Bob 2841]

I haven't really looked into the specifics, but as an asshole moderate, I'd probably prefer to have a system where we can have claims that go through a government agency (Dept of Education) much like an EEOC claim where a borrower establishes that they somehow were wronged in a specified way and then are then awarded dept forgiveness if they reach a certain burden of proof.  After that, they can then pursue a claim in court or class action if the agency denies them.

If we want to just cut checks, then I'd also provide a check to anyone who took out a student loan during the period as well, based on the amount of dept forgiveness.  For instance, if the average dept forgiveness is $15K, I'd cut everyone who paid off their debt $7.5K.

 

[Willfully Horn 8029]

7 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Massive reform

Zero to one percent loans. No more predatory lenders in charge of education. Make student loans dischargeable, and not protected.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Fucked spelling

[6th Street 6414]

I thought there was already a provision to repay those who made student loan payments over the last 5 years?

[Vegas64 676]

The first domino dropped today?

The Biden administration is canceling the student loans of 28,000 student borrowers who attended a chain of cosmetology schools that no longer exists. Any student who borrowed money to attend the Marinello Schools of Beauty between 2009 and 2016 is eligible for the relief, which totals $238 million. It's the latest move by the Biden administration "to address the politically charged issue of student-debt forgiveness," says The Wall Street Journal. Around 40 million people in the U.S. have student loan debt.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-to-forgive-238-million-in-cosmetology-school-student-loans-11651140001?

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

32 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

It is almost like y'all don’t believe a rising tide lifts all ships. Much better to bleed and hamstring as many consumers as possible, amirite? 
 

Who am I kidding? Y’all vote R and history shows fiscal policy is beyond your ken.

The data I’ve seen says it will disproportionately benefit the wealthy over the poor. 
 

https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/canceling-all-us-student-debt-would-mostly-benefit-high-earners

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/06/09/student-loan-cancellation-would-increase-your-wealth-by-this-much/amp/

 

https://fee.org/articles/student-debt-forgiveness-would-benefit-high-wealth-households-the-most-new-study-says/amp

Edited April 28, 2022 by ChickenSandwich

[WBT 20616]

11 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

If we want to just cut checks, then I'd also provide a check to anyone who took out a student loan during the period as well, based on the amount of dept forgiveness.  For instance, if the average dept forgiveness is $15K, I'd cut everyone who paid off their debt $7.5K.

Why stop there?  What about people who were enrolled without taking out a loan?

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Didn’t know where else to drop this. Love the terminology. Disinformation Governance board  of the Dept of Homeland Security.  Creepy af  

 

 

[Willfully Horn 8029]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The data I’ve seen says it will disproportionately benefit the wealthy over the poor. 
 

https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/canceling-all-us-student-debt-would-mostly-benefit-high-earners

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/06/09/student-loan-cancellation-would-increase-your-wealth-by-this-much/amp/

That is a high quality complaint.

FTR, I paid the next semester’s tuition for my oldest last week and in full. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Claro

[Willfully Horn 8029]

10 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Didn’t know where else to drop this. Love the terminology. Disinformation Governance board  of the Dept of Homeland Security.  Creepy af  

 

 

 

Do you prefer the Rs successful suit to make lies legitimate free speech?

[pyrohornIII 4815]

Reform for sure.  The way I see it they first pulled the money out of funding state institutions of higher learning which pushed more financial burden to the students and parents.  

Then they start making money off the student loans.  In so doing they basically sign millions of young Americans into indentured servitude.

And where are they investing the income from the loan scam?  Into housing, which further freezes the young out of the American dream.  

Next on the block is public education k-12.  Handwriting's on the wall.   

Despicable fucks and the deplorable idiots who keep them empowered.  

[Eastwood 4394]

I can appreciate the equity argument that blanket forgiveness today is unfair and does not address the injustice done to those who sacrificed to pay off their student loans in the past, but the system is, was, and forever has been absolutely broken. Kids who need a co-signer for a cell phone can turn around and borrow 5 figures worth of high interest loans a semester. Madness.

I would support moving all interest rates to zero and taking repayment off of a timeline. Have a minimum payment of $100 a month for everyone and pay the rest over time at a pace of your choosing or kick the can down the road until they are taking it out of your estate when you die.

The reality is that there is no truly “fair” way to do this. There are people who put themselves through absolute hell to pay off those loans. True sacrifice. I get that. But that doesn’t mean we keep letting people financially drown. And I understand that people don’t want to pay for something for which they will see no benefit. Of course I understand it. I’m a taxpayer who is paying into a social security system that I will likely never see a dime from because the money will be gone by the time I’m eligible. But thousands of dollars of my money flies out the window and into the pockets of seniors every year. Seniors who benefited from the most financially stable and arguably the most financially equitable period in human history. But it also finds its way into the pockets of seniors who truly need it and that’s the point of the system.

Forgive some, fix the rest, and make sure that the system undergoes a massive overhaul that prevents it from happening again.

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

It is almost like y'all don’t believe a rising tide lifts all ships. Much better to bleed and hamstring as many consumers as possible, amirite? 
 

Who am I kidding? Y’all vote R and history shows fiscal policy is beyond your ken.

Yeah, rising tides can lift all boats. But there’s one boat in particular i care about, more than any other boat.  
 

Do yourself a favor and don’t look up your opportunity cost lost.  Iirc, between the wife and me, that figure was 386k if put in market instead of paying it off, like we signed up to do.  I’d rather have that $$ than rising tides.  Guess we should have been leaches and waited for others to pay it. Lessened learned. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Eastwood said:

I would support moving all interest rates to zero and taking repayment off of a timeline. Have a minimum payment of $100 a month for everyone and pay the rest over time at a pace of your choosing or kick the can down the road until they are taking it out of your estate when you die.

Would be 100% behind this.  

[The Original Greaser Bob 2841]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

Why stop there?  What about people who were enrolled without taking out a loan?

Because they weren't damaged by the loan program. 

 

[safe sex 11735]

Leeches? Why do you denigrate and dehumanize the poor so much?

[Zeus 6093]

Can't wait until after this election when student loans aren't forgiven again though.

 

[RomaVicta 29929]

2 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

It is almost like y'all don’t believe a rising tide lifts all ships. Much better to bleed and hamstring as many consumers as possible, amirite? 
 

Who am I kidding? Y’all vote R and history shows fiscal policy is beyond your ken.

I firmly believe that guaranteed student loans is a huge money grab for the banks and schools. The taxpayer was already the safety net.

• Banks can grant loans without risk.
• Colleges can raise tuition costs without losing attendance.
• Student borrowers are made debt slaves who can't even bankrupt themselves.

You get students graduating with something akin to a small house loan. The banks and schools line their pockets. It's sinister.

A million years ago when I went to UT, you could pay for a the long semesters if you got a solid summer job. If you worked on an oil rig, you could live like a king in Austin. Then they put the frogs in the slowly warming water.

 

[Zeus 6093]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I firmly believe that guaranteed student loans is a huge money grab for the banks and schools. The taxpayer was already the safety net.

• Banks can grant loans without risk.
• Colleges can raise tuition costs without losing attendance.
• Student borrowers are made debt slaves who can't even bankrupt themselves.

You get students graduating with something akin to a small house loan. The banks and schools line their pockets. It's sinister.

A million years ago when I went to UT, you could pay for a the long semesters if you got a solid summer job. If you worked on an oil rig, you could live like a king in Austin. Then they put the frogs in the slowly warming water.

 

Yep, anything the federal government touches gets abused, almost by design. Exactly like the home loan cluster.

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

11 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

Leeches? Why do you denigrate and dehumanize the poor so much?

Don’t be fooled, many aren’t poor.  I don’t have respect for someone who signs a deal, the backs out duE to convenience because the deal didn’t work for them.  If you sign your name, promise to pay, then you do. Or you restructure, or you take other actions such as bankruptcy.  But expecting, or demanding others to financially cover your misjudgment, is bullshit.  There are options for those who truly can’t afford college, however, it also requires sacrifice so fuck that amirite? 
 

Make it 0% and a 50 year loan for all I gaf.  But welching on your principal loan and passing the plate across the country is bullshit. 

[RomaVicta 29929]

I do see why those who paid their loans would feel gypped. I'm not sure how to address that, but I don't think that issue should stop the policy.

As for the poor, it's not surprising that they would benefit the least. Perhaps this is an indicator of just what is wrong with the student loan/exorbitant tuition system. The poor, no matter how qualified, are not served by the current system. We should address the issues that trap people in poverty in a broader way, but college access is certainly part of that equation.

[jimmyjazz 45976]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Don’t be fooled, many aren’t poor.  I don’t have respect for someone who signs a deal, the backs out duE to convenience because the deal didn’t work for them.  If you sign your name, promise to pay, then you do. Or you restructure, or you take other actions such as bankruptcy.  

You might be missing one important point here.

[fattyflattie 4639]

52 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Because they weren't damaged by the loan program. 

 

Were they not?  Could they not have lived in better homes, saved more for retirement, or built up their business with that money? Knowing that if they held out long enough, it would be forgiven? 

[RomaVicta 29929]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Or you restructure, or you take other actions such as bankruptcy.

Those avenues are not available for student loans. Banks are far more powerful than students and their families.

[Lhorn 4916]

17 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Can't wait until after this election when student loans aren't forgiven again though.

 

Would 

[DaysOff 7951]

6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

 I don’t have respect for someone who signs a deal, the backs out duE to convenience because the deal didn’t work for them.  If you sign your name, promise to pay, then you do. 

 

Man. Sounds like Donald Trump. 

[Foosters 17858]

18 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Can't wait until after this election when student loans aren't forgiven again though.

 

No student loan relief, but also a president who supports Russia in their invasion, so . . .

[fattyflattie 4639]

5 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

 

Man. Sounds like Donald Trump. 

Exactly. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

10 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Those avenues are not available for student loans. Banks are far more powerful than students and their families.

You are unable to refi student debt?  Weird, I’ve seen several posters here claiming they have. 

[Vegas64 676]

12 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You are unable to refi student debt?  Weird, I’ve seen several posters here claiming they have. 

You can't discharge in bankruptcy. Which should be the first lever that gets pulled on this topic and I think would have 99% agreement on this website.

Otherwise, I have a nit of @Eastwood. I think this is an opinion, and a wrong one at that, which fails the entire point being made:

Quote

Of course I understand it. I’m a taxpayer who is paying into a social security system that I will likely never see a dime from because the money will be gone by the time I’m eligible. 

Also another nit @RomaVicta: "gypped" is problematic, at best, and a slur at worst. Let's say "cheated" or some other word.

[Eastwood 4394]

“Social Security example”

It’s not an apples to apples comparison, but I think the tone is the same. All tax payers pay for programs and resources they will never use or need. But those programs and resources benefit those who need it. The demographic that is most opposed to forgiveness is the same demographic that depends on Medicare and Social Security.

Point being that we, as tax payers, are footing other people’s bills every day. The position of “I don’t want to pay for so and so’s mistake” is a very disingenuous position for an American taxpayer to take. Between corporate bailouts, pointless wars, and the healthcare industry, paying for other people’s mistakes is an American tradition, at this point.

[Zeus 6093]

53 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

Would 

Spoiler

 

I don't think you can refi student loans, but I believe you can sort of default on them then they get reduced to try and see what (if anything) they are gonna be able to get repaid. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Zeus

[The Original Greaser Bob 2841]

55 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Were they not?  Could they not have lived in better homes, saved more for retirement, or built up their business with that money? Knowing that if they held out long enough, it would be forgiven? 

If they "held out" presumably they would have delayed their degree. Any economist the world could show that they were not damaged, and in fact, benefited by sucking it up and getting their degrees without a benefit of a loan. 

 

[Zeus 6093]

6 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

 

It’s not an apples to apples comparison, but I think the tone is the same. All tax payers pay for programs and resources they will never use or need. But those programs and resources benefit those who need it. The demographic that is most opposed to forgiveness is the same demographic that depends on Medicare and Social Security.

Point being that we, as tax payers, are footing other people’s bills every day. The position of “I don’t want to pay for so and so’s mistake” is a very disingenuous position for an American taxpayer to take. Between corporate bailouts, pointless wars, and the healthcare industry, paying for other people’s mistakes is an American tradition, at this point.

 

At the end of the day it's just a distraction from the inflation and stagnant economy. It's a news headline and another pander to get votes that isn't going to happen. 

If they forgave student loans tons more people would be racking as much student loan debt as possible with no intention of paying it back thinking oh well the taxpayer will just have to foot the bill again.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

14 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

The flip side is seeing smoke that a loan forgiveness jubilee could exacerbate inflation. I'm not smart enough to know about the economics of it all, but that seems not good. But maybe the good of $10k loan forgiving is greater than the bad of additional inflation in a mid-term year.

how? I don't know shit about the issue, but this intuitively seems counter to what will likely happen. since you posited this, please provide some backup, otherwise this is disinformation

[RomaVicta 29929]

51 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

You can't discharge in bankruptcy. Which should be the first lever that gets pulled on this topic and I think would have 99% agreement on this website.

Otherwise, I have a nit of @Eastwood. I think this is an opinion, and a wrong one at that, which fails the entire point being made:

Also another nit @RomaVicta: "gypped" is problematic, at best, and a slur at worst. Let's say "cheated" or some other word.

Point taken. I hadn't used the term in so long that I'd forgotten why. As a child, it never occurred to me that the term referred to any group. Thanks for the reminder.

[pyrohornIII 4815]

This from a Time article that dropped today:

Quote

For Jen Dewey-Osburn, 35, who lives in a suburb of Phoenix, the rage arose when she calculated how much she owed on her student loans: ­although she’d borrowed $22,624 and has paid off $34,225, she still owes $43,304. (She’s in a dispute with her loan servicer, ­Navient, about how her repayments were calculated.) She and her husband know they’re more fortunate than most—both have good jobs—but they feel so stuck financially that they can’t envision taking on the cost of having children. “It’s just moral and physical and emotional exhaustion,” she says. “There’s no right choices; it feels like they’re all wrong.”

That's pretty amazing, that amount of interest.  And even if Navient did make a mistake and you could prove it, you couldn't find a lawyer to sue them, unless you could whip up some class action thing.   The banks and lenders hold all the cards.  

It was part of a bigger story on middle class Americans and inflation.  A good read.   

https://time.com/6171292/middle-class-falling-behind-economy/

[WBT 20616]

12 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

how? I don't know shit about the issue, but this intuitively seems counter to what will likely happen. since you posited this, please provide some backup, otherwise this is disinformation

Speculation based on simple supply/demand fundamentals is disinformation?  

Loan forgiveness would be a stimulus/liquidity injection.

[Foosters 17858]

I've paid over 75k in student loan payments and my principal has gone up 35k over the last 8 years. Luckily, I've got PSLF, so should be good. 

[Slacks 6821]

14 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Make it retroactive to 2002 then

1998. Let's go.