Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

Just now, Immaculate Vibes said:

Hoo boy. This is pretty rich coming just after our recent exchange. 
 

is it? is it rich? or maybe, like always, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about? could that be the case? it would be a pretty rare thing for you to be right around here. maybe it happened. I dunno.

[workswithseed 2112]

46 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 I dunno.

Probably should have sticked to this.

Edited April 28, 2022 by workswithseed

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

Just now, workswithseed said:

Probably should have sticked to this.

quoted for lulz before the edit

[workswithseed 2112]

3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

quoted for lulz before the edit.

Edit.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

it's even funnier now

[Bullneck 19169]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

This sounds like consequentialism, and that thinking can lead to dicey directions.

Holy shit, boy, just shut up.

[workswithseed 2112]

Just now, Bullneck said:

Holy shit, boy, just shut up.

Why? What's wrong with what I said?

[Sawbonz 27578]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Where did the money come from? 

@Immaculate Vibes you just miss this one? Where did the money to pay for TARP come from?

[StassneyHorn 6614]

I didn’t read the exact post, but yes you can refinance student loans both private and government. How someone had principal added to their loan was probably the result of a capitalization of interest after deferment or another stipulation.

 

[StassneyHorn 6614]

Anyway GDP down, but fundamentals look good. There will be no recession before November. I look forward to 6 months of 350k job growth and falling inflation numbers and gas.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

@Immaculate Vibes you just miss this one? Where did the money to pay for TARP come from?

Not sure what you mean? The program was created and included in legislation. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

Just now, Immaculate Vibes said:

Not sure what you mean? The program was created and included in legislation. 

Where did the money come from? Not a difficult question 

[RomaVicta 29929]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

TARP netted the federal treasury over 66 billion dollars.

No doubt, that's why all the GOPs applauded Obama's program.

Fortunately, needing a government bailout didn't' cut too badly into the bonuses of the shit-peddlers who created those toxic assets. Suh-weet.

[safe sex 11735]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

Why? What's wrong with what I said?

... Seriously?

[Willfully Horn 8029]

8 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah, rising tides can lift all boats. But there’s one boat in particular i care about, more than any other boat.  
 

Do yourself a favor and don’t look up your opportunity cost lost.  Iirc, between the wife and me, that figure was 386k if put in market instead of paying it off, like we signed up to do.  I’d rather have that $$ than rising tides.  Guess we should have been leaches and waited for others to pay it. Lessened learned. 

I think your honesty is a credit to you. I want to point out that you’d make little money in a vacuum. And we all suffer when society does nothing to address systemic illness. 
 

I will also mention that a life lived in service to others is a better life than a life lived solely within the parameters of self interest. Certainly, I don’t live up to that standard, but I am aware of it.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Damnit

[Johnny Sack 8397]

A lot of people who want loans forgiven are self interested as fuck.

It is a horrible idea unless structural changes are made in student lending.  Too many people take out way, way too many loans for shitty, worthless degrees.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Where did the money come from? Not a difficult question 

The feds.  They also had a method for recapturing it.  Almost worked like a loan they collected.  They sure as hell forgave nothing.

[workswithseed 2112]

46 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

... Seriously?

Yes, I don't think that progress for the sake of progress is a good thing. It usually comes to no bad tactics.

[Sawbonz 27578]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The feds.  They also had a method for recapturing it.  Almost worked like a loan they collected.  They sure as hell forgave nothing.

Where did the feds get the money?

[fattyflattie 4639]

3 hours ago, bonnieblue said:

It shouldn’t cost so much for anyone to pursue higher education, much less graduate degrees, particularly as they are pre reqs for the overwhelming majority of jobs (we can’t all be plumbers).

It appears, that many, many more people should have chosen that path. 
 

51 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I will also mention that a life lived in service to others is a better life than a life lived solely within the parameters of self interest. Certainly, I don’t live up to that standard, but I am aware of it.

I believe you, and I try that. But the first several “others” are my family. I’m this scenario, I get fucked twice. Once when I missed out on several hundred thousand in opportunity gone, and secondly when I pay for this.  So the life I’m living to serve “others” just got that much more difficult. And I know we’re all rich here and whatnot, but an extra few hundred in the account wouldn’t hurt.  
 

Also, I’ve been saving between $500 and 1500 a month for the last 9 years, in a 529. Isn’t that about fucking stupid right now. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Where did the feds get the money?

Bonds. Can you just state your point already? 

[Sawbonz 27578]

Just now, Immaculate Vibes said:

Bonds. Can you just state your point already? 

What is a bond?

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

What is a bond?

You’re wasting my time. I hate when people try to read my mind on this site and so I’m not bothering with you. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

Just now, Immaculate Vibes said:

You’re wasting my time. I hate when people try to read my mind on this site and so I’m not bothering with you. 

Oh come on you’re a smart guy. How do federal bonds work? How much do they cost and who pays them? And why might the source of funds for TARP be important in a comparison between it and student loan forgiveness?

[Goofyboy 3293]

I believe you, and I try that. But the first several “others” are my family. I’m this scenario, I get fucked twice. Once when I missed out on several hundred thousand in opportunity gone, and secondly when I pay for this.  So the life I’m living to serve “others” just got that much more difficult. And I know we’re all rich here and whatnot, but an extra few hundred in the account wouldn’t hurt.  
 
Also, I’ve been saving between $500 and 1500 a month for the last 9 years, in a 529. Isn’t that about fucking stupid right now. 

Is the money gone? I have my 10 year olds college fully funded. I also don’t actually expect him to go. I’ll take the 10% hit. Do you get tired of the it’s not fair argument? We hand billions to companies (banks) that fucked us royally. We hand thousands to thousands of citizens and this is bad / not fair? Or are you pissed at both situations?

[Willfully Horn 8029]

7 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Is the money gone? I have my 10 year olds college fully funded. I also don’t actually expect him to go. I’ll take the 10% hit. Do you get tired of the it’s not fair argument? We hand billions to companies (banks) that fucked us royally. We hand thousands to thousands of citizens and this is bad / not fair? Or are you pissed at both situations?

Weapons programs that the Pentagon said were unnecessary.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

42 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Where did the feds get the money?

They fire up the printing press.   Doesn’t affect me much.  Most of my net worth is on real estate.  It does hurt others.  

[Sawbonz 27578]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

They fire up the printing press.   Doesn’t affect me much.  Most of my net worth is on real estate.  It does hurt others.  

Tarp? You were saying what a great business deal it was for the feds

Edited April 29, 2022 by Sawbonz

[fattyflattie 4639]

24 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Or are you pissed at both situations?

Yeah, I kind of am. We spend money poorly, all over the place.  To me this is no different than saying, anyone who over leveraged themselves on their mortgage and has missed the last 3 payments, we will pay off 50%.  *must be jumbo mortgage to qualify.  
 

No one forced anyone into a loan. It’s just so amazing how so many just magically lucked into fulfilling the terms. You actually had to sacrifice a bit, as expected, but you know, pretty easily doable.   I graduated in ‘07, not exactly the “worked at the coffee shop and paid my way thru at $4 credit hour” time period. 
 

I wonder how many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of kids across the county that didn’t attend college because they properly assessed the loan situation and it’s difficulties, feel about their choice now?  Or those they served with the GI Bill as a motivator. Guess they’ll just continue to shovel shit thinking about what might have been. I bet they’ll be so fucking excited to pay a bit extra so they can “raise all boats”. At least we’ll know how they’ll  vote. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by fattyflattie

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Tarp? You were saying what a great business deal it was for the feds

TARP was a wash for the fed coffers.  Loan forgiveness isn’t. 
 

Be some bad debt recognition for the IRS (and I’m sure the forgived will bitch about that).  But otherwise not much. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

No one forced anyone into a loan. It’s just so amazing how so many just magically lucked into fulfilling the terms.

That’s why 10K makes sense. The majority of people really hurt believe it or not are in this group. They are people who for whatever reason weren’t able to finish and get a good job. For them it might as well be 1M. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

That’s why 10K makes sense. The majority of people really hurt believe it or not are in this group. They are people who for whatever reason weren’t able to finish and get a good job. For them it might as well be 1M. 

I’d be a lot more interested in that. Especially if it had an income tax contributed qualifier. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

TARP was a wash for the fed coffers.  Loan forgiveness isn’t. 
 

Be some bad debt recognition for the IRS (and I’m sure the forgived will bitch about that).  But otherwise not much. 

It was not a wash when you consider it kept RE values artificially elevated (I bet you loved that) and prevented a true correction which did real damage to regular folks. Also all that added money to the system diluted out everyone’s purchase power. This will do no worse and close to 100% of that money will be spent, which helps create jobs and helps everyone rather than wall street

Edited April 29, 2022 by Sawbonz

[DaysOff 7951]

They fire up the printing press.   Doesn’t affect me much.  Most of my net worth is on real estate.  It does hurt others.  

Grandma's real estate.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

 

7 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

The first was a perceived benefit that was ill conceived.  It's not a problem because "it is bureaucratic".  (It arguably wasn't bureaucratic enough.)  The later provides a pretty standard administrative review of folks who want to have it which would follow standard administrative procedures similar to those related to the EEOC and state wage agencies. 

 

Fair enough.

 

@fattyflattie I would wager that the vast majority of the people who have student debt took on that debt with every intention of paying it back. Of course there are always going to be cheats, but most are not out to cheat the system.

You and your wife took out student loans?  So did my wife and I, not very much for me (UT was lot cheaper when I attended), quite a bit for her (law school). You paid them back? So did we, (a lot of hers were paid by her law firm), however, I see this as a "but for the grace of God, there go I" kind of thing.

10k off the top seems low to me, but its better than nothing.

And yes, of course the system needs to be fixed so this doesn't happen again, but this debt thing was caused by a broken system, you can't lay all the blame on the borrowers.

[Vegas64 676]

The one thing I hadn’t thought of that Fatty brought up that rings sympathetic to me is not the ones who paid their loans off and don’t get a rebate (like y’all, I paid my wife’s loans who doesn’t even work and likely will never even use her degree and don’t begrudge it), but actually the ones who did the math and determined they couldn’t responsibly take out a $100k loan for an economics degree or signed up for the military for the free college after 4 years and might or might not have lost a leg or something. They might have missed out on $10-50k in help, in hindsight by being austere and responsible.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Vegas64

[Anastasis 23475]

46 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That’s why 10K makes sense.

The people that are buried and suffocating under student loan debt laugh in your direction. I mean shit, I still sit on ~20k in student loan debt which I am absolutely in no rush to pay off because I locked in stupid low rates ca. 2004-5. I could and would pay it off tomorrow without missing a beat if it made financial sense, but at 1.625 and inflation what it is, that will probably never make sense. We paid off all my SOs loans because they were not as favorably positioned. The people suffocating under student loan debt have multiples more than that (and it is not an insignificant number) and/or significantly lower earning opportunity because they made very bad decisions and got fucked by a system that was doling out dough to feed the administrative tower, in a situation with perverse incentives.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

34 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Grandma's real estate.

Nope. Her real estate and money will go to her foundation.   

I make my own money.  It isn’t that hard.  Only losers think it is.  

[Satchel 6938]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Nope. Her real estate and money will go to her foundation.   

I make my own money.  It isn’t that hard.  Only losers think it is.  

Yeah. Those people who change bed pans in hospitals should stop being losers, take out a loan and go to college. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

11 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

They might have missed out on $10-50k in help, in hindsight by being austere and responsible.

Or a better life in general. 

[Vegas64 676]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Or a better life in general. 

That was implied.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Yeah. Those people who change bed pans in hospitals should stop being losers, take out a loan and go to college. 

Or instead keep doing what they do while white liberals who ran up $300k in debt “earning” their 16th century Belgian transgender dance theory degrees so they can pour coffee or have some DEI bullshit career teaching and tweeting about grievances  Or any degree styled ______ Studies.  

Edited April 29, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

That was implied.

I read you last sentence in haste, and misread. 

[Brisketexan 105156]

Or instead keep doing what they do while white liberals who ran up $300k in debt “earning” their 16th century Belgian transgender dance theory degrees so they can pour coffee or have some DEI bullshit career teaching and tweeting about grievances  Or any degree styled ______ Studies.  

A favorite distraction used by the Johnny types in this discussion. Such “useless” degrees make up a very small fraction of student loan debt. The vast majority of it, and of the student loan debt that is keeping millions of people from getting ahead, is for legit, career-advancing degrees.

[Satchel 6938]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Or instead keep doing what they do while white liberals who ran up $300k in debt “earning” their 16th century Belgian transgender dance theory degrees so they can pour coffee or have some DEI bullshit career teaching and tweeting about grievances  Or any degree styled ______ Studies.  

Why not a degree in what you majored in. Would that be worth taking out a loan?

Edited April 29, 2022 by Satchel

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

A favorite distraction used by the Johnny types in this discussion. Such “useless” degrees make up a very small fraction of student loan debt. The vast majority of it, and of the student loan debt that is keeping millions of people from getting ahead, is for legit, career-advancing degrees.

You got a link for that?

Because to me it seems like people who made good choices on school and degree selection aren’t the ones needing loan charity.  
 

But maybe it really is the in state STEM degree types needing welfare.  

Edited April 29, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

A favorite distraction used by the Johnny types in this discussion. Such “useless” degrees make up a very small fraction of student loan debt. The vast majority of it, and of the student loan debt that is keeping millions of people from getting ahead, is for legit, career-advancing degrees.

Agreed. So with great unemployment numbers, what’s the issue paying the loans back? Or is this so that other things such as houses can be purchased?   Failing to see how this is different than any other loan, ever, other than politicians want to pay this one off in exchange for your vote 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Agreed. So with great unemployment numbers, what’s the issue paying the loans back? Or is this so that other things such as houses can be purchased?   Failing to see how this is different than any other loan, ever, other than politicians want to pay this one off in exchange for your vote 

It’s predatory to enter a contract for a low interest loan and expect the other side to adhere to the terms.  

[Satchel 6938]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Agreed. So with great unemployment numbers, what’s the issue paying the loans back? Or is this so that other things such as houses can be purchased?   Failing to see how this is different than any other loan, ever, other than politicians want to pay this one off in exchange for your vote 

Isn’t that what politicians do for rich people? 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Isn’t that what politicians do for rich people? 

No. The top 20 percent are the only ones who pay anything net of government transfers.  It’s a nice lie democrats convince otherwise.