Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Walmart is hiring new truck drivers at a starting salary over $100k.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/walmart-truckers-starting-salary

There are plenty of jobs out there for people without degrees.

I have a friend who makes a couple million a year building luxury auto dealerships.  He failed out of Texas Tech and does not have wealthy parents.

There is no better place for opportunity than the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[Vegas64 676]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Did you believe I meant that you couldn't get a job at a gas station or a "plant hand" unless you had a sacred college degree?

I will bet you understood the assumption that fattieflatty chose to ignore. If there is general confusion as to my meaning, then I will own the lack of clarity. I'm not convinced that I was that opaque.

Not as you suggest, but in the vein I responded to ychang with— entry level roles in and within big corporate machines and hegemony in the white collar space.

[RomaVicta 29932]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Close.  I have inherited very little and do not have a trust.

I inherited some O&G properties when my dad died when I was in high school.  His brother was nice enough to steal 95% of it.

It was a general observation. I believe you do have Podsnap's narrow world view when you post on this board. I don't think you lie. I think you really believe the things you write here. It's the epitome of what I oppose and what confounds me. Why do you believe the things you do?

I'm sure you look at me and have similar thoughts to whatever degree you consider what I believe.

On other boards, you're quite agreeable. I bet I've pos repped you far more than I've neg repped you.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

52 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Do most of you encourage your children to be plumbers and truck drivers?

A trade, if my son wanted to, would be more than fine with me.

College is largely worthless unless you need it for a professional degree.

[fattyflattie 4639]

15 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

So, your entire spit-spewing response is based on your inability to recognize a simple assumption that my statement about needing a degree to get into the system only applied to widely recognized fields and industries requiring a college degree.

So, maybe this is where the disconnect is.  Companies want, and require, talented labor.  Is your suggestion that they lower their standards so that more without a degree will find a spot?  I've been in both worlds, and I'm finding it pretty difficult to think of positions greater than mail room guy, administrative assistants, and maintenance crews that wouldn't greatly benefit from that same employee holding a college degree.  We played with a few in a logistical role, but the difference when they were replaced with someone formally educated was substantial.    I guess what I'm saying is, no shit most all companies want all educated people.

[tx 3 putt 77091]

Someone remind me how this administration is so horrible for oil and gas ?

 

i don’t know any legit o/g exec that wants 4 more years of trump. He’ll only derail this gravy train 

[Anastasis 23475]

49 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

So, your entire spit-spewing response is based on your inability to recognize a simple assumption that my statement about needing a degree to get into the system only applied to widely recognized fields and industries requiring a college degree.

Your underlying assumption creates a tautology. 

 

Here is an article that discusses some of the employment dynamics in our post-pandemic world.

Blue-Collar Workers Make the Leap to Tech Jobs, No College Degree Necessary 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-jobs-no-college-degree-necessary-11649371535

 

 

My own employer is removing degree requirements for a variety of roles, including some jobs that require a moderate to high level of technical sophistication, and is developing extensive training programs to bring people up to speed. This is a shift taking place across a variety of industries, and it makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. The roles that need college degrees or graduate level training will continue to exist, but I think over time the circle will get drawn tighter and tighter around those roles.   

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Some fun old tweets from our new head of the Ministry of Truth. 
 

This is going to go so well. 

[jimmyjazz 45978]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

There are plenty of jobs out there for people without degrees.

I have a friend who makes a couple million a year building luxury auto dealerships.  He failed out of Texas Tech and does not have wealthy parents.

There is no better place for opportunity than the land of the free and the home of the brave.

This is such a tired trope, and wholly indicative of the exception-which-proves-the-rule nature of confounding anecdotes.  This chart is from 2014, but it illustrates the basic underlying statistics:  red arrow is median household income, green arrow is "but but but I know a guy" from @Johnny Sack and @fattyflattie:

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is such a tired trope, and wholly indicative of the exception-which-proves-the-rule nature of confounding anecdotes.  This chart is from 2014, but it illustrates the basic underlying statistics:  red arrow is median household income, green arrow is "but but but I know a guy" from @Johnny Sack and @fattyflattie:

 

Awesome. Any more decade old charts we can take a look at? 

[jimmyjazz 45978]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Awesome. Any more decade old charts we can take a look at? 

If you have reason to believe annual household income has changed dramatically, particularly in terms of distribution, since 2014, then bring it on.

[Sawbonz 27578]

2 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

I’m going to need a source citation or this is disinformation.

I need a ruling @Longhorn_Fan68 Is there somewhere in official White House communications to which you can refer me for resolution, clarity, and relief? I feel under assault. 

Still waiting for you to explain where the money for TARP came from. I don’t even need a source I’ll take your word for it

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Still waiting for you to explain where the money for TARP came from. I don’t even need a source I’ll take your word for it

It’s not the gotcha that I think you’re going for. I don’t like massive bailouts of anyone. Especially with no meaningful reforms or punishments like the GFC. Creates moral hazard. Same thing will happen with un reformed student loan system. 

One notable distinction is that Tarp was passed by the legislature. Biden is looking to go by executive fiat. 

[WBT 20618]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Did you believe I meant that you couldn't get a job at a gas station or a "plant hand" unless you had a sacred college degree?

I will bet you understood the assumption that fattieflatty chose to ignore. If there is general confusion as to my meaning, then I will own the lack of clarity. I'm not convinced that I was that opaque.

Well, you were responding to a post saying that too many people get worthless degrees they don't need.  So if you were saying only that jobs that require college degrees require college degrees, I'm not sure of the relevance.

 

And for reference, from 2010 to 2019, the percentage of aged 25+ with college degrees increased from 30% to 36%.  

No disinformation at all: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020/educational-attainment.html#:~:text=In 2019%2C high school was,from 29.9% to 36.0%.

[Sawbonz 27578]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Close.  I have inherited very little and do not have a trust.

I inherited some O&G properties when my dad died when I was in high school.  His brother was nice enough to steal 95% of it.

Your mom ever need your paycheck in high school to make rent or keep the lights on? How much family property “in trust” do you have access to despite not owning?

[F250 28784]

2 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

Also, at least in STEM/Tech, the perception has changed. People know that if you went to Stanford or Carnegie Mellon or something like that, then okay. But if you went to Texas State and got an economics or psychology degree, do you really need that to be an entry level marketing or sales or entry level analyst? Most tech and business skills are accreted through experience and "upskilling" as you get more experience, which happens on the job.

"Apple CEO Tim Cook even said in 2019 that about half of Apple's US employment last year was made up of people who did not have a four-year degree.  Google, Apple, and IBM are among the companies that don't require a college degree for certain positions, according to Glassdoor."

"Elon Musk said a college degree isn't required for a job at Tesla"

Granted with tech, you need foundational technical skills and knowledge, but nerds get that stuff tinkering and doing and as autodidactics anyways, they don't need Intro to Computer Science at big average and expensive state school. This is why if you can do bootcamps and certs and stuff you can get around having a degree.

Quote

Google, Apple, and IBM are among the companies that don't require a college degree for certain positions

"Certain positions"

While it is possible to work in Tech without a degree the career ceiling is fairly low. Usually those positions are lower level IT support jobs.

Even if someone has great skills and experience with a lot of certifications but no degree their resume is automatically rejected. I've gone in circles with HR trying to get a degree requirement removed in the past. Even worse, not only is a degree required it often must be a CS/CIS degree.

[RomaVicta 29932]

41 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Your underlying assumption creates a tautology. 

 

Here is an article that discusses some of the employment dynamics in our post-pandemic world.

Blue-Collar Workers Make the Leap to Tech Jobs, No College Degree Necessary 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-jobs-no-college-degree-necessary-11649371535

 

 

My own employer is removing degree requirements for a variety of roles, including some jobs that require a moderate to high level of technical sophistication, and is developing extensive training programs to bring people up to speed. This is a shift taking place across a variety of industries, and it makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. The roles that need college degrees or graduate level training will continue to exist, but I think over time the circle will get drawn tighter and tighter around those roles.   

I applaud this. As you know, I don't deny such jobs have existed. I'm glad dropping the needless requirement for a college degree is being adopted by business and industry.

Almost any state job above administrative assistant states a requirement for a college degree. Persons with a college degree will likely be in front of non degree holder even for the admin jobs. 

Perhaps I was unclear or perhaps fattieflatty pulled my point in a wrong direction. The point was never that they're aren't good jobs for persons with skills instead of a degree. The point is that even to get a bare subsistence job at the state or many companies, you're screwed if you don't have a degree.

Knowing the above, a person feels largely compelled to go to college if they can. To acquire this perceived necessity, one has to face costs that I believe have been inflated by banks and colleges. The result can be debt slavery or penury or both.

The origin of the topic was college debt. My point is about persons who have the same. 

[jimmyjazz 45978]

HR and the resultant keyword hiring practices are one of the biggest blights on corporate efficiency in the last 50 years.  I can't count the number of times I had really qualified applicants rejected before their resumes ever crossed my desk because of some T that didn't get crossed.  It's maddening.

[Sawbonz 27578]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

It’s not the gotcha that I think you’re going for. I don’t like massive bailouts of anyone. Especially with no meaningful reforms or punishments like the GFC. Creates moral hazard. Same thing will happen with un reformed student loan system. 

One notable distinction is that Tarp was passed by the legislature. Biden is looking to go by executive fiat. 

Literally no one here arguing for forgiveness is advocating it without reform of the system. 

 

it’s ok for you to admit TARP created money to solve the problem. No one here believes you give a shit if the legislature ok’d it or not. And ultimately it doesn’t matter who OKs it in terms of consequences 

and I don’t give a fuck what you are for or against.  The relevance of TARP wrt loan forgiveness is not whether you were for it or against it. It’s that it was a huge inflationary event and was a net positive to the majority of Americans, although it disproportionately benefited the wealthy. Loan forgiveness will be no different other than benefiting the most needy. 

[jimmyjazz 45978]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The relevance of TARP wrt loan forgiveness is not whether you were for it or against it. It’s that it was a huge inflationary event and was a net positive to the majority of Americans, although it disproportionately benefited the wealthy. Loan forgiveness will be no different other than benefiting the most needy. 

I do believe you've put your finger on the problem.

[fattyflattie 4639]

43 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How much family property “in trust” do you have access to despite not owning?

What good is that?  Saves him a few grand a year on a deer lease?

[fattyflattie 4639]

39 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Persons with a college degree will likely be in front of non degree holder even for the admin jobs. 

Do you have an issue with the more educated candidate being in front of the less qualified candidate?

[Sawbonz 27578]

15 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

What good is that?  Saves him a few grand a year on a deer lease?

It’s nice when a few grand a year means nothing. 
 

ETA that’s me these days but I remember when it wasn’t. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Sawbonz

[Covri 6249]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Walmart is hiring new truck drivers at a starting salary over $100k.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/walmart-truckers-starting-salary

There are plenty of jobs out there for people without degrees.

I have a friend who makes a couple million a year building luxury auto dealerships.  He failed out of Texas Tech and does not have wealthy parents.

There is no better place for opportunity than the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Walmart has always been way out in front of starting pay for drivers and are highly selective as a result, but that is till a 26% jump due to labor shortages then what they were paying the last couple years (https://www.ttnews.com/articles/walmart-pay-truck-drivers-110000-first-year) 

 

Other major carriers have just recently jumped starting pay up into the 6Ok range from the 50k range. The average truck driver in America still makes around 50k a year and has to cover a lot of their own expenses.

(Source me in the industry, but in the link above it also says average is 57k for OTR/long haul drivers)

Every truck driver deserves to make 100k for the shit they deal with, but most don’t and that’s why they are exiting the business faster than they can be replaced. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

It’s nice when a few grand a year means nothing. 

Agreed. Sounds like 10’s of millions of Americans are about to have the same perceived advantage you trash @Johnny Sack for. 

[RomaVicta 29932]

6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Do you have an issue with the more educated candidate being in front of the less qualified candidate?

Do you ever get any point? You seem to comb a post for the dumbest interpretation available.

The line you quote illustrates the necessity of having a degree if you hope to get a job in a specific environment outside of being a plant hand. You would evidently hire the plant hand with a college degree over one who doesn't. Thus, even  a qualified plant hand would feel pressure to spend money on a college degree that isn't really required to do the job being sought.

That's. My. Point. You. Tiresome. Ignoramus.

[Sawbonz 27578]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Agreed. Sounds like 10’s of millions of Americans are about to have the same perceived advantage you trash @Johnny Sack for. 

I don’t trash Sack for having nice things. I trash Sack for thinking everyone could be where he is if they just made better choices. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

You would evidently hire the plant hand with a college degree over one who doesn't. Thus, even  a qualified plant hand would feel pressure to spend money on a college degree that isn't really required to do the job being sought.

I absolutely would. I can't think of a single job I wouldn't, down to instagram models.  Someone identifying the need and investing in their future should be rewarded over the candidate that didn't.

[StassneyHorn 6617]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Walmart is hiring new truck drivers at a starting salary over $100k.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/walmart-truckers-starting-salary

There are plenty of jobs out there for people without degrees.

I have a friend who makes a couple million a year building luxury auto dealerships.  He failed out of Texas Tech and does not have wealthy parents.

There is no better place for opportunity than the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Thank God for Joe Biden and WalMart

[Homercles 10206]

It’s absolutely pointless because the same crew would be against anything this administration floats under the pretense of fiscal concern…which was lacking during that stupid ‘middle class tax break’, refusing to increase prime rates during a boom, and other items under R admins.  
 

But I’ll say I don’t know how ‘kids these days’ manage to navigate the current environment without going insane…20 years ago I finished undergrad with $15k in loans at a <2% rate, bought a decent car (4 year old Honda Prelude) for $8k at 23yo, bought a starter house for $125k at 25yo, and had at least enough disposable income for food/beer/etc and 401k.  My annual salary during this 3 year period grew from $35k-$45k. 
 

Now they graduate with loans easily 3-4x that, crappy decade-old used cars are 3x that, and that starter home is appraised at almost 4x what I bought/sold it for.  
 

I know entry level consumer L1 phone techs aren’t getting paid 3-4x what I did in those days when I paid for all that stuff.  I’m only making in that range after 20 years and many promotions.  Starting my career over right now would mean no nicer car, no house, much larger student debt to overcome…my life would be very different.  
 

If people of my or older generations don’t recognize the financial realities of how different things are now…I have no tolerance for ‘they made poor choices’.  Just like the crying libs edgelord memes on the DT Musk thread, picking a few examples of extreme ‘garbage degree loans’ doesn’t speak to that class as a whole, it just makes you look like a dumbass.  The system is broken. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Homercles

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Literally no one here arguing for forgiveness is advocating it without reform of the system. 

 

it’s ok for you to admit TARP created money to solve the problem. No one here believes you give a shit if the legislature ok’d it or not. And ultimately it doesn’t matter who OKs it in terms of consequences 

and I don’t give a fuck what you are for or against.  The relevance of TARP wrt loan forgiveness is not whether you were for it or against it. It’s that it was a huge inflationary event and was a net positive to the majority of Americans, although it disproportionately benefited the wealthy. Loan forgiveness will be no different other than benefiting the most needy. 

Well, literally anything benefits the needy more than a massive bank bailout. 
 

At any rate, yes it’s inflationary. That’s fine. It’s to be expected. With an economy contracting and inflation still at 40 year high, we will print more money somehow. This is a great back door way to do helicopter money. Which will be part of a feedback loop. 

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Literally no one here arguing for forgiveness is advocating it without reform of the system. 

 

it’s ok for you to admit TARP created money to solve the problem. No one here believes you give a shit if the legislature ok’d it or not. And ultimately it doesn’t matter who OKs it in terms of consequences 

and I don’t give a fuck what you are for or against.  The relevance of TARP wrt loan forgiveness is not whether you were for it or against it. It’s that it was a huge inflationary event and was a net positive to the majority of Americans, although it disproportionately benefited the wealthy. Loan forgiveness will be no different other than benefiting the most needy. 

I think the forgiveness is much more palatable for all if they fix the problems before paying a bail-out.  Without that, there are no guarantees that we wont be back in the same place in short order, and the majority will in fact expect that outcome.

[safe sex 11735]

15 minutes ago, Homercles said:

It’s absolutely pointless because the same crew would be against anything this administration floats under the pretense of fiscal concern…which was lacking during that stupid ‘middle class tax break’, refusing to increase prime rates during a boom, and other items under R admins.  
 

But I’ll say I don’t know how ‘kids these days’ manage to navigate the current environment without going insane…20 years ago I finished undergrad with $15k in loans at a <2% rate, bought a decent car (4 year old Honda Prelude) for $8k at 23yo, bought a starter house for $125k at 25yo, and had at least enough disposable income for food/beer/etc and 401k.  My annual salary during this 3 year period grew from $35k-$45k. 
 

Now they graduate with loans easily 3-4x that, crappy decade-old used cars are 3x that, and that starter home is appraised at almost 4x what I bought/sold it for.  
 

I know entry level consumer L1 phone techs aren’t getting paid 3-4x what I did in those days when I paid for all that stuff.  I’m only making in that range after 20 years and many promotions.  Starting my career over right now would mean no nicer car, no house, much larger student debt to overcome…my life would be very different.  
 

If people of my or older generations don’t recognize the financial realities of how different things are now…I have no tolerance for ‘they made poor choices’.  Just like the crying libs edgelord memes on the DT Musk thread, picking a few examples of extreme ‘garbage degree loans’ doesn’t speak to that class as a whole, it just makes you look like a dumbass.  The system is broken. 

I will likely never own a home. My retirement plan is suicide.

[Sawbonz 27578]

15 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Well, literally anything benefits the needy more than a massive bank bailout. 
 

At any rate, yes it’s inflationary. That’s fine. It’s to be expected. With an economy contracting and inflation still at 40 year high, we will print more money somehow. This is a great back door way to do helicopter money. Which will be part of a feedback loop. 

2T tax cuts for the wealthy while continuing to deficit spend when the economy is booming kind of hamstring  you when the shit hits the fan. I’m sure you were on here howling about how bad that decision was right?

 

funny how you only mind printing money when it benefits the poor. And you are either a moron or a huge liar if you think 430B into a 20T debt matters. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Some fun old tweets from our new head of the Ministry of Truth. 
 
[/url] This is going to go so well. 

The Biden tank job to November is glorious

[F250 28784]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

You would evidently hire the plant hand with a college degree over one who doesn't.

Do you have a problem with this?

lulz

You only have yourself to blame for engaging.

 

[Anastasis 23475]

38 minutes ago, Homercles said:

If people of my or older generations don’t recognize the financial realities of how different things are now…

I think that we do. Cause we are also feeling the fucking pinch man. My fucking monthly burn rate is insane. There is some (a lot) of frivolous shit baked into that, but boil it down to the bare essential elements of the American middle class (home ownership + utilities, life/home/auto insurance, retirement savings, healthcare coverage, prop taxes, etc.) and the monthly fixed nut is a bitch. I don't care where you are in the career cycle, shit is a lift right now. The disconnect between "middle income" and "middle class" is continuously expanding. 

 

 

    

[Homercles 10206]

17 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

2T tax cuts for the wealthy while continuing to deficit spend when the economy is booming kind of hamstring  you when the shit hits the fan. I’m sure you were on here howling about how bad that decision was right?

This.  And refusing to raise rates during a boom left nothing in the tank for the inevitable bust we are seeing unfold in real time.  
 

Seems to be a pattern…let banks and real estate run rampant, crash, new admin has to make tough decisions and spend to bail them out.  Cut taxes and suppress rates during a boom, too much money chasing too few resources + investors looking for better returns, new admin blamed for inflation.  
 

Granted it’s a much more complex system than that, but I’ve seen it twice now as an adult. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Good thing the adults are back in charge.

 

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

 

[Anastasis 23475]

 

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, Homercles said:

I know entry level consumer L1 phone techs aren’t getting paid 3-4x what I did in those days when I paid for all that stuff.  I’m only making in that range after 20 years and many promotions.

I don't have any idea about your industry, but we're seeing Petrol E's looking for 110-115k out of school.  aggys, too.   Not too fucking shabby. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

14 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I think the forgiveness is much more palatable for all if they fix the problems before paying a bail-out.  Without that, there are no guarantees that we wont be back in the same place in short order, and the majority will in fact expect that outcome.

Well sure. Though they didn’t fix finance system before bailing them out. In fact this is another financial system failure the govt just protected them from the consequences by preventing discharge of student loans through bankruptcy. If we’re going to piss money away and go broke I’d just as soon it go to the poor rather than Wall Street 

[Homercles 10206]

14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I don't have any idea about your industry, but we're seeing Petrol E's looking for 110-115k out of school.  aggys, too.   Not too fucking shabby. 

PE was among the highest paid graduates back in my day as well.  What’s their education cost?  It was a competitive, challenging program   Oh and they risk getting laid off when the industry

 

75% of my peers in L1 support were high school.  I had to settle in that role as it was post-dotcom busy time and my MIS degree was worthless without experience. $13 an hour starting out, better than the $8 an hour I was earning in Oklahoma.  
 

Point being starting earnings for my career arc haven’t kept up anywhere near enough to support what I had back in 2005.  

Edited April 29, 2022 by Homercles

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

 

From now on I’m calling it the Ministry of Truth. These are the serious things these “serious” people are working on. 
 

51 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

2T tax cuts for the wealthy while continuing to deficit spend when the economy is booming kind of hamstring  you when the shit hits the fan. I’m sure you were on here howling about how bad that decision was right?

 

funny how you only mind printing money when it benefits the poor. And you are either a moron or a huge liar if you think 430B into a 20T debt matters. 

I’m generally against money printer go brrrr, but given the choice I would prefer tax cuts over increased spending. 
 

The number is fairly small in the grand scheme or our debt and liabilities. It’s just another step on our way to the end. Next time it’ll be it’s just $2T for whatever. I’m more annoyed that no reforms will happen and we’ll restart the same shit and people will lament the skyrockets costs of education. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

given the choice I would prefer tax cuts over increased spending. 
 

 

The problem is that has never happened in my lifetime when republicans have been in charge.  It is always tax cuts *and*  increased spending with your boys. They just spend the money to further enrich their backers

 

Of course you prefer tax cuts because they put more money in your pocket. You don’t like increased spending because it likely won’t be spent directly on you. 

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

It’s absolutely pointless because the same crew would be against anything this administration floats under the pretense of fiscal concern…which was lacking during that stupid ‘middle class tax break’, refusing to increase prime rates during a boom, and other items under R admins.  
 
But I’ll say I don’t know how ‘kids these days’ manage to navigate the current environment without going insane…20 years ago I finished undergrad with $15k in loans at a  
Now they graduate with loans easily 3-4x that, crappy decade-old used cars are 3x that, and that starter home is appraised at almost 4x what I bought/sold it for.  
 
I know entry level consumer L1 phone techs aren’t getting paid 3-4x what I did in those days when I paid for all that stuff.  I’m only making in that range after 20 years and many promotions.  Starting my career over right now would mean no nicer car, no house, much larger student debt to overcome…my life would be very different.  
 
If people of my or older generations don’t recognize the financial realities of how different things are now…I have no tolerance for ‘they made poor choices’.  Just like the crying libs edgelord memes on the DT Musk thread, picking a few examples of extreme ‘garbage degree loans’ doesn’t speak to that class as a whole, it just makes you look like a dumbass.  The system is broken. 

God, AMEN.

My ex and I did the whole college savings plan and we make decent money - enough that we don’t qualify for any financial aid.

But we also don’t have an extra $25,000 a year laying around for the total expenses of sending a kid WITH SCHOLARSHIPS to an instate school.

It’s ridiculous.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

2 hours ago, trauma babe said:

I will likely never own a home. My retirement plan is suicide.

The only people I know who own a home were able to do so because of parental help.  Granted, I live in Austin, but the point remains that the idea of being able to save enough for a 20% downpayment on a few hundred grand house is tough for a lot of people, especially if we are comparing to the boomers' situation.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, trauma babe said:

I will likely never own a home. My retirement plan is suicide.

I know plenty of nurses that own homes. 
 

39 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The problem is that has never happened in my lifetime when republicans have been in charge.  It is always tax cuts *and*  increased spending with your boys. They just spend the money to further enrich their backers

 

Of course you prefer tax cuts because they put more money in your pocket. You don’t like increased spending because it likely won’t be spent directly on you. 

 

Well yeah duh. We pay a lot of tax in the top bracket. Seems you think we should pay more. What should our rate be at the top?

 

Also, I don’t like increased spending because the govt are terrible stewards of capital, not because it’s not spent on me. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

4 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

Well yeah duh. We pay a lot of tax in the top bracket. Seems you think we should pay more. What should our rate be at the top?

 

Also, I don’t like increased spending because the govt are terrible stewards of capital, not because it’s not spent on me. 

If they were spending it on you they would be great stewards though right? 
 

I don’t have a number for the top bracket. You don’t really care though so there’s no point in arguing it. Your side is hellbent on bankrupting the country on the backs of the poor and vulnerable. They have shown that for 30 years now. I believe them