Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[landman 559]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:35 PM, Cousin Strawberry said:

PPP fraud is what is driving a lot of this inflation.  The companies screening those applicants did zero due diligence.  

How exactly is PPP fraud driving up consumer goods, gas prices, etc.?

 

[jimmyjazz 45903]

So GDP is skyrocketing?

[High Plains Drifter 11039]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:45 AM, Incredulity said:

of course, its a highly regressive tax on low income earners.

 

 

concern troll is concerned about the poors.

 

 

On 10/17/2022 at 6:47 PM, Biff Tannen said:

 the revolution when the poors fight back. 

 

lol

 

 

[Brian Fantana 6685]

7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

We've had this discussion.

Posting corporate profits in dollar terms is nonsensical.  As a % of GDP corporate profits are in a similar range as they have been.

The Evolution of U.S. Corporate Profits_2.pdf (pficdn.com)

Quote

Yet, economics is about trade-offs: corporate profits’ increased share of GDP has been roughly offset by a decline in employee wages, which have fallen from 56% of GDP from 1970 through 2000 to around 53% over the past decade. In tandem, the share of capital has surged from 18% to over 21%. Stated differently, earnings that now amount to roughly $600 billion a year have been transferred from labor to capital.1

Next bullshit lie please.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Brian Fantana

[Incredulity 11667]

So I take it you want to return to the 50's.

What happened in 2000? 

I'll answer for you, the start of low interest rate and QE infinity policy. 

[jimmyjazz 45903]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

So I take it you want to return to the 50's.

What happened in 2000? 

I'll answer for you, the start of low interest rate and QE infinity policy. 

Why don't you respond to the questions?

[Incredulity 11667]

Your question?

Do I need to post a graph of GDP growth in constant dollars?  Cliffs: it matches the OHMGRD corporate profits graph.

[sidis 9827]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

We've had this discussion.

Posting corporate profits in dollar terms is nonsensical.  As a % of GDP corporate profits are in a similar range as they have been.

this is simply not true.  here is a chart i just made with the FRED data for GDP, GDP per Capita, and After Tax Corporate Profits.

and here it is on a comparison basis.

even if one allows for a ton of friendly accounting adjustments for inventory and capital consumption the average from 1930 to 2020, the average was 5.2%.  2021 was 8.4% (the first time since before the great depression it was over 7.6%) and 2022 will likely be over 9%. 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release/tables?rid=53&eid=42211#snid=42228

so no, your obfuscating talking point is factually erroneous.  we are in uncharted, extraordinary times in terms of corporate profits...not just on a nominal basis, but also relative to GDP.

Edited October 19, 2022 by sidis

[Incredulity 11667]

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=V2qT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Incredulity

[Incredulity 11667]

Categories > National Accounts > National Income & Product Accounts > GDP/GNP > Shares of GDP

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Incredulity

[sidis 9827]

this is what you are looking for as it takes into account tax policy.

like i pointed out...it was 8.4% in 2021.  it will be over 9% in 2022.  That is a significant departure from historical numbers averaging 5.3%.

Edited October 19, 2022 by sidis

[Incredulity 11667]

no its not.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

You are completely fucking retarded

[elfenix 34232]

the postwar average is 5.6%.  one standard deviation on that is 1.1%. 8.4% is nearly 3 standard deviations away.  so, yes, it is significant.

 

and on a 23 trillion dollar economy that is a bit over $4,000 per employed worker. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by elfenix

[sidis 9827]

14 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

no its not.

most expect the 2022 to register at ~9.5%.  from 1931 to 2020, the average was 5.3% with a max of 7.6% and a standard deviation of 1.4%.

you don't believe that three standard deviations to the right of the mean of a pretty normally distributed population (and more than a standard deviation greater than the previous maximum) is statistically significant?

okay.  seems productive to continue arguing with a delusional system.

eta: just to close this whole silly argument off, if corporate profits as a percentage of gdp achieves its near century long average of 5.3% of anticipated 2022 gdp of $22.79 trillion, that would mean that after tax corporate profits would be $1.21 trillion.  if it achieves 9.5% that is anticipated, that would be the equivalent of $2.16 trillion.  so nearly a trillion dollars more of profits (equivalent to 20% of the federal government's budget) is not "significant."  even if it is (conservatively) 8.4% like last year, that would represent more than $700 billion more in profits.  for someone pretending to freak out about 5-10% yoy inflation in the cpi, one would think that an 60-80% inflation in corporate profits would be considered "significant."

Edited October 19, 2022 by sidis

[Brian Fantana 6685]

I'll reply for him:

But it's only like 3% LULZ that's not that much LULZ owned libtard

[Incredulity 11667]

Profits after tax isn't the appropriate measure of corporate performance/"greed".  Specifically in the context of the 2017 tax change.

 

 

[elfenix 34232]

"we rewrote the laws to benefit ourselves but you can't consider that when discussing how much we're fucking you over"

[sidis 9827]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Profits after tax isn't the appropriate measure of corporate performance/"greed".  Specifically in the context of the 2017 tax change.

 

 

so now the rent seeking behavior of corporations that the republican party has been championing since 1980 in creating significant tax benefits to themselves, as well as driving how said corporations perform their corporate finance/accounting/treasury activities no longer have any impact on economic outcomes for those corporations?

sure, jan.  it's kind of a big part of the point.

[Biff Tannen 45676]

It's like watching someone die on this page.

[wildcat09 29349]

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Profits after tax isn't the appropriate measure of corporate performance/"greed". 

 

 

Why not?

[jimmyjazz 45903]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why not?

It's just remarkable.  The data are there in every chart, and yet he still tries to hand-wave away the obvious. 

[StassneyHorn 6575]

Joe Shylock’s IRS goons at it again. This time raising the tables for income tax and the standard deduction in order to give you strong, patriotic, supporters of capitalism more money to feed your fat, precious children. Along with the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years, the lowest unemployment rate ever for Hispanics, and the highest wage growth YoY that I won’t be checking for truth

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/19/irs-here-are-the-new-income-tax-brackets-for-2023.html

[Biff Tannen 45676]

7 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Joe Shylock’s IRS goons at it again. This time raising the tables for income tax and the standard deduction in order to give you strong, patriotic, supporters of capitalism more money to feed your fat, precious children. Along with the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years, the lowest unemployment rate ever for Hispanics, and the highest wage growth YoY that I won’t be checking for truth

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/19/irs-here-are-the-new-income-tax-brackets-for-2023.html

But they hired 80,000 new auditors to arrest hard working Americans!!!!!11!!1

No, they didn't.  The vast majority of those new positions are low end jobs like customer support, but Rs won't let those facts get in the way either.  Facts schmacts.

[mchookem 16328]

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

It's like watching someone die on this page.

and they don't even know it. sad.

[safe sex 11711]

A strong contender for dumbest poster on the board, but tbf there's a lot of competition

Edited October 19, 2022 by trauma babe

[TwiceHorn 31452]

5 hours ago, landman said:

How exactly is PPP fraud driving up consumer goods, gas prices, etc.?

 

Fraud or not, it was a monetary injection of dubious need/value. It's about the same amount as the stimulus checks to individuals, but mostly benefited businesses.  In theory, it was intended to maintain payrolls and keep jobs.  But again, fraud or no, I don't think it had that intended effect.

Edited October 19, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[tx 3 putt 76910]

 

[Incredulity 11667]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Fraud or not, it was a monetary injection of dubious need/value.

It was badly needed by many businesses.  Specifically restaurants and hospitality industry that was completely shut down.  Others not so much, there was very little done to discern between the two.  Frankly I don't blame any business who took PPP.  I said at the time that I was sure there would be clawbacks and significant need tests.  That was obviously dead wrong.

It is absolutly inflationary, every half ass business got significant cash liquidity.  Seeing as they are run by US citizens they spent it, just like citizens did with the direct checks.

[Incredulity 11667]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

so now the rent seeking behavior of corporations that the republican party has been championing since 1980 in creating significant tax benefits to themselves, as well as driving how said corporations perform their corporate finance/accounting/treasury activities no longer have any impact on economic outcomes for those corporations?

sure, jan.  it's kind of a big part of the point.

Not so much that as it relates to the topic in the OP.  "Corporate Profits are causing Inflation"

In a tax policy discussion, absolutely.

[Neonmoon 38129]

5 hours ago, landman said:

How exactly is PPP fraud driving up consumer goods, gas prices, etc.?

 

I literally can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

40 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

almost forgot about doocy. fucking clown

[sidis 9827]

58 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Not so much that as it relates to the topic in the OP.  "Corporate Profits are causing Inflation"

In a tax policy discussion, absolutely.

Well then you need to remove the inventory and capital consumption adjustments as well and the analysis would be on the nominal basis reflected in the two charts I created above. 

[CowboyFred 1151]

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

It's like watching someone die on this page.

Incredulity is swam?

[PTINS 3467]

7 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

So I take it you want to return to the 50's.

What happened in 2000? 

I'll answer for you, the start of low interest rate and QE infinity policy. 

I'll play. First post on CR, I think, and I only read the last 3 pages...

What happened in 2000?

I used to think that Y2K was the reason for so many ills in our economy in that it gave the IT community access to the highest levels of corporate America. Over time, I realized that innovation and riding the tech wave increased our efficiency in damn near everything, resulting in much higher productivity and ultimately, corporate profits.

I never saw the cost/benefit of paying 4X for an Apple computer over a Microsoft based clone. Still don't.  I took my high school age son shopping at the Apple store in 2006, and was overwhelmed by so many happy people who couldn't wait to tell me about their great products. Didn't buy anything that day, but I bought Apple stock the next day. Ding, Ding, Ding!!! WINNER!!!

Over the last 10-15 years, I migrated from investing in Oil & Gas (my profession) to high tech ($$$).  Apple was making train loads of cash with iphones (no risk) v. O&G, which is arguably the highest risk profession there is. Taking Oil & Gas, boosting it to high pressure, and putting a fire under is the definition of risk. 

Fast forward, and over time, my salary, the "Labor Share" on the graph, was secondary to my investment earnings (savings, 401k, IRA, Roth, etc.), the "Profit Share" on the graph. That statement probably holds true for everyone who is not dependent on a government paycheck. Every pension fund, not government related, his heavily invested in the stock market, and every contributor to every pension fund is by definition,  invested in the stock market.

Corporate Profits are not a bad thing. Those profits trickle down to individual investors and pension funds, who pay their share of taxes.  

So, the solution is call the Tech company management before congress, and ultimately, kill the geese that were laying golden eggs. Well done.

Re: stimulus checks.

Lets see, Covid disrupts everything, people can't/don't work, supply chain issues, same amount of people chasing fewer goods and services, supply and demand fundamentals go to work, and prices start rising. 

Some people, those forced out of the workplace, needed help. I get that.

But a lot (most?) of people didn't, they were able to work remotely. But everyone got a check, whether they needed it or not.

Inject Trillions of $$$ into a supply challenged economy, and now we have a whole lot more money chasing good and services that were already in high demand, superheating the economy, and inflation explodes.

Combining those two events, crushed profit margins and out of control inflation, and we went from our best economy ever to dogshit in a few short years.  I got a few $ from my stimulus checks in return for my life's savings getting crushed.  Whoppee shit!

I think that applies to most of America. 

[Brian Fantana 6685]

TIL only individual investors and pensioners exist.

[Captainant 27656]

1 hour ago, PTINS said:

Corporate Profits are not a bad thing. Those profits trickle down to individual investors and pension funds, who pay their share of taxes.  

It's piss that's trickling down, not gold. 

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Still over here chuckling about someone coming into CR to make their first post and it's stanning trickle down economics. Wild.

[safe sex 11711]

And saying it's just Big Tech's profits that are the problem?

[Brisketexan 105097]

And saying it's just Big Tech's profits that are the problem?

Well, I mean, here’s the thing. Big Tech is innovators, they are the American dream, they are the pinnacle of capitalism and freedom and the American flag rendered in 1’s and 0’s. You dirty libs should stop hating on them.

Also, Big Tech won’t let people disseminate videos produced in Moscow stating that Joe Biden is an actual lizard who steals elections with mind control rays purchased by (((soros))), so, the government definitely has to regulate Big Tech.

From the outside, you can’t understand it, from the inside, you can’t explain it.

[tx 3 putt 76910]

 

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

I would need to know the cost of turning barrels of crude into gallons of gasoline in 2010 vs now before I render a decision on that tweet. 

[PTINS 3467]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It's piss that's trickling down, not gold. 

Call it what you will, but the market cap of the just the FAANG stocks has risen almost $3 Trillion in ~ 20 years.

A significant portion of that value increase is shared by the majority of pension funds, 401k's, and numerous individuals who have chosen to invest in these particular stocks.

Those "obscene corporate profits" have resulted in a proportionate increase in stock value, meaning each individual investor has realized a proportionate increase in their investments.

One share of Apple in 2006 was ~ $35/share, and has split 7 for 1 in 2014 and 4 for 1 in 2020, giving you 28 shares from your original 1 share. Your $35 original investment in 2006 is worth over $4,000 today.

Perhaps characterizing a 100 fold increase in value as a trickle is not the correct term.

[Willfully Horn 8010]

TIL that Surly can boast of posters, @Incredulity and @PTINS, who claim superior understanding of corporate profit to poor Mike Konczal, director of macroeconomic analysis, at the Roosevelt Institute.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[elfenix 34232]

some normies get some scraps so everything is good in @PTINS book

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I mean, here’s the thing. Big Tech is innovators, they are the American dream, they are the pinnacle of capitalism and freedom and the American flag rendered in 1’s and 0’s. You dirty libs should stop hating on them.

Also, Big Tech won’t let people disseminate videos produced in Moscow stating that Joe Biden is an actual lizard who steals elections with mind control rays purchased by (((soros))), so, the government definitely has to regulate Big Tech.

From the outside, you can’t understand it, from the inside, you can’t explain it.

Plus, they donate almost exclusively to the preferred party.  So posting profit margins that make O&G majors blush is completely fine.  No gouge, no mention, no problem.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21192]

13 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

and they don't even know it. sad.

They know it, they just ignore it and lie...and it wins them election after election.  And it will end in fascism.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

10 hours ago, PTINS said:

Oil & Gas (my profession)

Those profits trickle down to individual investors 

I think that applies to most of America. 

[Brian Fantana 6685]

9 hours ago, PTINS said:

Call it what you will, but the market cap of the just the FAANG stocks has risen almost $3 Trillion in ~ 20 years.

A significant portion of that value increase is shared by the majority of pension funds, 401k's, and numerous individuals who have chosen to invest in these particular stocks.

Those "obscene corporate profits" have resulted in a proportionate increase in stock value, meaning each individual investor has realized a proportionate increase in their investments.

One share of Apple in 2006 was ~ $35/share, and has split 7 for 1 in 2014 and 4 for 1 in 2020, giving you 28 shares from your original 1 share. Your $35 original investment in 2006 is worth over $4,000 today.

Perhaps characterizing a 100 fold increase in value as a trickle is not the correct term.

Nobody gives a fuck, dumbass. None of this benefits the average American worker. Go fuck yourself in the face.