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Posted (edited)
  On 10/19/2022 at 4:54 PM, Incredulity said:

We've had this discussion.

Posting corporate profits in dollar terms is nonsensical.  As a % of GDP corporate profits are in a similar range as they have been.

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The Evolution of U.S. Corporate Profits_2.pdf (pficdn.com)

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  Quote

Yet, economics is about trade-offs: corporate profits’ increased share of GDP has been roughly offset by a decline in employee wages, which have fallen from 56% of GDP from 1970 through 2000 to around 53% over the past decade. In tandem, the share of capital has surged from 18% to over 21%. Stated differently, earnings that now amount to roughly $600 billion a year have been transferred from labor to capital.1

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Next bullshit lie please.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted (edited)

this is what you are looking for as it takes into account tax policy.

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like i pointed out...it was 8.4% in 2021.  it will be over 9% in 2022.  That is a significant departure from historical numbers averaging 5.3%.

Edited by sidis
Posted (edited)

the postwar average is 5.6%.  one standard deviation on that is 1.1%. 8.4% is nearly 3 standard deviations away.  so, yes, it is significant.

 

and on a 23 trillion dollar economy that is a bit over $4,000 per employed worker. 

Edited by elfenix
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Posted (edited)
  On 10/19/2022 at 7:14 PM, Incredulity said:

no its not.

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most expect the 2022 to register at ~9.5%.  from 1931 to 2020, the average was 5.3% with a max of 7.6% and a standard deviation of 1.4%.

you don't believe that three standard deviations to the right of the mean of a pretty normally distributed population (and more than a standard deviation greater than the previous maximum) is statistically significant?

okay.  seems productive to continue arguing with a delusional system.

eta: just to close this whole silly argument off, if corporate profits as a percentage of gdp achieves its near century long average of 5.3% of anticipated 2022 gdp of $22.79 trillion, that would mean that after tax corporate profits would be $1.21 trillion.  if it achieves 9.5% that is anticipated, that would be the equivalent of $2.16 trillion.  so nearly a trillion dollars more of profits (equivalent to 20% of the federal government's budget) is not "significant."  even if it is (conservatively) 8.4% like last year, that would represent more than $700 billion more in profits.  for someone pretending to freak out about 5-10% yoy inflation in the cpi, one would think that an 60-80% inflation in corporate profits would be considered "significant."

Edited by sidis
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Posted
  On 10/19/2022 at 7:37 PM, Incredulity said:

Profits after tax isn't the appropriate measure of corporate performance/"greed".  Specifically in the context of the 2017 tax change.

 

 

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so now the rent seeking behavior of corporations that the republican party has been championing since 1980 in creating significant tax benefits to themselves, as well as driving how said corporations perform their corporate finance/accounting/treasury activities no longer have any impact on economic outcomes for those corporations?

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sure, jan.  it's kind of a big part of the point.

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Posted

Joe Shylock’s IRS goons at it again. This time raising the tables for income tax and the standard deduction in order to give you strong, patriotic, supporters of capitalism more money to feed your fat, precious children. Along with the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years, the lowest unemployment rate ever for Hispanics, and the highest wage growth YoY that I won’t be checking for truth

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/19/irs-here-are-the-new-income-tax-brackets-for-2023.html

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Posted
  On 10/19/2022 at 7:57 PM, StassneyHorn said:

Joe Shylock’s IRS goons at it again. This time raising the tables for income tax and the standard deduction in order to give you strong, patriotic, supporters of capitalism more money to feed your fat, precious children. Along with the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years, the lowest unemployment rate ever for Hispanics, and the highest wage growth YoY that I won’t be checking for truth

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/19/irs-here-are-the-new-income-tax-brackets-for-2023.html

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But they hired 80,000 new auditors to arrest hard working Americans!!!!!11!!1

No, they didn't.  The vast majority of those new positions are low end jobs like customer support, but Rs won't let those facts get in the way either.  Facts schmacts.

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Posted (edited)
  On 10/19/2022 at 4:57 PM, landman said:

How exactly is PPP fraud driving up consumer goods, gas prices, etc.?

 

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Fraud or not, it was a monetary injection of dubious need/value. It's about the same amount as the stimulus checks to individuals, but mostly benefited businesses.  In theory, it was intended to maintain payrolls and keep jobs.  But again, fraud or no, I don't think it had that intended effect.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
  On 10/19/2022 at 10:03 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Fraud or not, it was a monetary injection of dubious need/value.

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It was badly needed by many businesses.  Specifically restaurants and hospitality industry that was completely shut down.  Others not so much, there was very little done to discern between the two.  Frankly I don't blame any business who took PPP.  I said at the time that I was sure there would be clawbacks and significant need tests.  That was obviously dead wrong.

It is absolutly inflationary, every half ass business got significant cash liquidity.  Seeing as they are run by US citizens they spent it, just like citizens did with the direct checks.

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Posted
  On 10/19/2022 at 7:42 PM, sidis said:

so now the rent seeking behavior of corporations that the republican party has been championing since 1980 in creating significant tax benefits to themselves, as well as driving how said corporations perform their corporate finance/accounting/treasury activities no longer have any impact on economic outcomes for those corporations?

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sure, jan.  it's kind of a big part of the point.

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Not so much that as it relates to the topic in the OP.  "Corporate Profits are causing Inflation"

In a tax policy discussion, absolutely.

Posted
  On 10/19/2022 at 10:23 PM, Incredulity said:

Not so much that as it relates to the topic in the OP.  "Corporate Profits are causing Inflation"

In a tax policy discussion, absolutely.

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Well then you need to remove the inventory and capital consumption adjustments as well and the analysis would be on the nominal basis reflected in the two charts I created above. 

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Posted
  On 10/19/2022 at 5:01 PM, Brian Fantana said:

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  On 10/19/2022 at 5:14 PM, Incredulity said:

So I take it you want to return to the 50's.

What happened in 2000? 

I'll answer for you, the start of low interest rate and QE infinity policy. 

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I'll play. First post on CR, I think, and I only read the last 3 pages...

What happened in 2000?

I used to think that Y2K was the reason for so many ills in our economy in that it gave the IT community access to the highest levels of corporate America. Over time, I realized that innovation and riding the tech wave increased our efficiency in damn near everything, resulting in much higher productivity and ultimately, corporate profits.

I never saw the cost/benefit of paying 4X for an Apple computer over a Microsoft based clone. Still don't.  I took my high school age son shopping at the Apple store in 2006, and was overwhelmed by so many happy people who couldn't wait to tell me about their great products. Didn't buy anything that day, but I bought Apple stock the next day. Ding, Ding, Ding!!! WINNER!!!

Over the last 10-15 years, I migrated from investing in Oil & Gas (my profession) to high tech ($$$).  Apple was making train loads of cash with iphones (no risk) v. O&G, which is arguably the highest risk profession there is. Taking Oil & Gas, boosting it to high pressure, and putting a fire under is the definition of risk. 

Fast forward, and over time, my salary, the "Labor Share" on the graph, was secondary to my investment earnings (savings, 401k, IRA, Roth, etc.), the "Profit Share" on the graph. That statement probably holds true for everyone who is not dependent on a government paycheck. Every pension fund, not government related, his heavily invested in the stock market, and every contributor to every pension fund is by definition,  invested in the stock market.

Corporate Profits are not a bad thing. Those profits trickle down to individual investors and pension funds, who pay their share of taxes.  

So, the solution is call the Tech company management before congress, and ultimately, kill the geese that were laying golden eggs. Well done.

Re: stimulus checks.

Lets see, Covid disrupts everything, people can't/don't work, supply chain issues, same amount of people chasing fewer goods and services, supply and demand fundamentals go to work, and prices start rising. 

Some people, those forced out of the workplace, needed help. I get that.

But a lot (most?) of people didn't, they were able to work remotely. But everyone got a check, whether they needed it or not.

Inject Trillions of $$$ into a supply challenged economy, and now we have a whole lot more money chasing good and services that were already in high demand, superheating the economy, and inflation explodes.

Combining those two events, crushed profit margins and out of control inflation, and we went from our best economy ever to dogshit in a few short years.  I got a few $ from my stimulus checks in return for my life's savings getting crushed.  Whoppee shit!

I think that applies to most of America. 

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Posted
  On 10/20/2022 at 3:02 AM, trauma babe said:
And saying it's just Big Tech's profits that are the problem?

Well, I mean, here’s the thing. Big Tech is innovators, they are the American dream, they are the pinnacle of capitalism and freedom and the American flag rendered in 1’s and 0’s. You dirty libs should stop hating on them.

Also, Big Tech won’t let people disseminate videos produced in Moscow stating that Joe Biden is an actual lizard who steals elections with mind control rays purchased by (((soros))), so, the government definitely has to regulate Big Tech.

From the outside, you can’t understand it, from the inside, you can’t explain it.
Posted
  On 10/20/2022 at 2:17 AM, Captainant said:

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It's piss that's trickling down, not gold. 

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Call it what you will, but the market cap of the just the FAANG stocks has risen almost $3 Trillion in ~ 20 years.

A significant portion of that value increase is shared by the majority of pension funds, 401k's, and numerous individuals who have chosen to invest in these particular stocks.

Those "obscene corporate profits" have resulted in a proportionate increase in stock value, meaning each individual investor has realized a proportionate increase in their investments.

One share of Apple in 2006 was ~ $35/share, and has split 7 for 1 in 2014 and 4 for 1 in 2020, giving you 28 shares from your original 1 share. Your $35 original investment in 2006 is worth over $4,000 today.

Perhaps characterizing a 100 fold increase in value as a trickle is not the correct term.

Posted
  On 10/20/2022 at 3:22 AM, Brisketexan said:


Well, I mean, here’s the thing. Big Tech is innovators, they are the American dream, they are the pinnacle of capitalism and freedom and the American flag rendered in 1’s and 0’s. You dirty libs should stop hating on them.

Also, Big Tech won’t let people disseminate videos produced in Moscow stating that Joe Biden is an actual lizard who steals elections with mind control rays purchased by (((soros))), so, the government definitely has to regulate Big Tech.

From the outside, you can’t understand it, from the inside, you can’t explain it.

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Plus, they donate almost exclusively to the preferred party.  So posting profit margins that make O&G majors blush is completely fine.  No gouge, no mention, no problem.  

Posted
  On 10/20/2022 at 4:38 AM, PTINS said:

image.png.3e3d9b19cdcbbc7fa17e595155f7742c.png

Call it what you will, but the market cap of the just the FAANG stocks has risen almost $3 Trillion in ~ 20 years.

A significant portion of that value increase is shared by the majority of pension funds, 401k's, and numerous individuals who have chosen to invest in these particular stocks.

Those "obscene corporate profits" have resulted in a proportionate increase in stock value, meaning each individual investor has realized a proportionate increase in their investments.

One share of Apple in 2006 was ~ $35/share, and has split 7 for 1 in 2014 and 4 for 1 in 2020, giving you 28 shares from your original 1 share. Your $35 original investment in 2006 is worth over $4,000 today.

Perhaps characterizing a 100 fold increase in value as a trickle is not the correct term.

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Nobody gives a fuck, dumbass. None of this benefits the average American worker. Go fuck yourself in the face.

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