Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[immamac 44422]

I mean shit was really going to hell in a handbasket pretty quickly, then all of the sudden a flurry of great legislation passed.

Joe has moved from "worthless stand in President" to "Lets see what this guy can do going into 2024" territory for me. 

[elfenix 34787]

can't wait for the talking points about how the 47% that don't pay taxes are getting screwed by paying for the 30% who go to college

[chainsaw 10312]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

I mean shit was really going to hell in a handbasket pretty quickly, then all of the sudden a flurry of great legislation passed.

Joe has moved from "worthless stand in President" to "Lets see what this guy can do going into 2024" territory for me. 

In politics, as Jim Comey taught us, timing is everything.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34108]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

can't wait for the talking points about how the 47% that don't pay taxes are getting screwed by paying for the 30% who go to college

But really, though, the people this will affect positively could give a fuck less what "those people" think

[Longhorn_Fan68 34108]

since he's now reaching for low-hanging fruit now (and sorry trumplicans, this is a very popular and well-reasoned/backed loan forgiveness) now do marijuana. Just rip that fucking bandaid off, Joe. Undo a half-century+ of bad policy and give the people their medicine! Can I get an amen?!

Edited August 23, 2022 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Anastasis 23718]

Is there some statutory or other reason for the income cap? The impact of the income cap is trivial on the total cost of the program. 

[Captainant 28607]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

since he's now reaching for low-hanging fruit now (and sorry trumplicans, this is a very popular and well-reasoned/backed loan forgiveness) now do marijuana. Just rip that fucking bandaid off, Joe. Undo a half-century+ of bad policy and give the people their medicine! Can I get an amen?!

but then how would we fill up our slavery prisoner quota without marijuana charges to press against minorities??

[chainsaw 10312]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Is there some statutory or other reason for the income cap? The impact of the income cap is trivial on the total cost of the program. 

Seems arbitrary to me, as well, unless there's some data out there saying 125k is some inflection point between people taking honest jobs vs. selling their souls on wall street or something. A salary like that doesn't go very far in DC, NYC, or SF.

[Biff Tannen 46206]

9 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

since he's now reaching for low-hanging fruit now (and sorry trumplicans, this is a very popular and well-reasoned/backed loan forgiveness) now do marijuana. Just rip that fucking bandaid off, Joe. Undo a half-century+ of bad policy and give the people their medicine! Can I get an amen?!

1937.  Coming up on 90 years.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34108]

57 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Seems arbitrary to me, as well, unless there's some data out there saying 125k is some inflection point between people taking honest jobs vs. selling their souls on wall street or something. A salary like that doesn't go very far in DC, NYC, or SF.

guessing it has something to do with quieting the talking points of it's not helping lower-income people vs those who says it's a handout because look these millionaires with student loans got theirs forgiven too to those who say it's just a straight handout. I think this softens that argument a bit

56 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

1937.  Coming up on 90 years.

shit, didn't realize it was that long ago. had the 50's in my head for some reason.

[chainsaw 10312]

3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

guessing it has something to do with quieting the talking points of it's not helping lower-income people vs those who says it's a handout because look these millionaires with student loans got theirs forgiven too to those who say it's just a straight handout. I think this softens that argument a bit

It's going to cost more to enforce and investigate this shit than it would to just forgive the damn debt. It's only $10k anyway, the whole point is that those people will turn around and buy a car or take a vacation or something, which in theory will stimulate the economy. High earners could use an extra $10k too.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34108]

3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

It's going to cost more to enforce and investigate this shit than it would to just forgive the damn debt. It's only $10k anyway, the whole point is that those people will turn around and buy a car or take a vacation or something, which in theory will stimulate the economy. High earners could use an extra $10k too.

I know literally know no one that couldn't use an extra $10k

[Js1 87299]

6 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

It's going to cost more to enforce and investigate this shit than it would to just forgive the damn debt. It's only $10k anyway, the whole point is that those people will turn around and buy a car or take a vacation or something, which in theory will stimulate the economy. High earners could use an extra $10k too.

 

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I know literally know no one that couldn't use an extra $10k

The average student loan debt is, I believe, something around $25k to $30k. 

That's 1/3 to 1/4 of their loan, wiped out. 

Biden has said, for a while now, that he only feels he has executive power to wipe out a certain amount, not all of it. $10k is a lot.   

[chainsaw 10312]

Just now, Js1 said:

 

The average student loan debt is, I believe, something around $25k to $30k. 

That's 1/3 to 1/4 of their loan, wiped out. 

Biden has said, for a while now, that he only feels he has executive power to wipe out a certain amount, not all of it. $10k is a lot.   

That's horseshit. He could pardon his own treason, in theory.

[Captainant 28607]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The average federal student loan debt is, I believe, something around $25k to $30k. 

ftfy - lots of students have either state or private educational loans to supplement their fed loans. The financial aid package of your average UT student right now is mostly state of TX loans, including the remaining ~40% of my total principle. Because I paid off my fed loans in 2020 like a chump

['stache 22148]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

since he's now reaching for low-hanging fruit now (and sorry trumplicans, this is a very popular and well-reasoned/backed loan forgiveness) now do marijuana. Just rip that fucking bandaid off, Joe. Undo a half-century+ of bad policy and give the people their medicine! Can I get an amen?!

Seriously, and commute or pardon each and every person in federal prison for simple possession. I doubt it's very many people since it's usually the states that prosecute the smaller stuff, but it would send a hell of a message. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Because I paid off my fed loans in 2020 like a chump

Tell me about it. 

['stache 22148]

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

Seems arbitrary to me, as well, unless there's some data out there saying 125k is some inflection point between people taking honest jobs vs. selling their souls on wall street or something. A salary like that doesn't go very far in DC, NYC, or SF.

A huge chunk of the tax code is income limits on tax breaks or benefits. It's just how we've done it. I agree it doesn't make much sense anymore since cost of living is so drastically different in our huge country. 

One bitch I've had since I started working is that the student loan deduction is limited to like $2500 and gets phased out well below $150,000 in income. I think all student loan interest should be deductible. Hell make it a credit. I would have saved a ton on my taxes in the early years when I was paying interest out the ass. I've consolidated, refinanced to a shorter term, and can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel now, but back then I would have loved it, and think everyone should get at least that with tuition and loan rates still out of control.

[Anastasis 23718]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

One bitch I've had since I started working is that the student loan deduction is limited to like $2500 and gets phased out well below $150,000 in income. I think all student loan interest should be deductible. Hell make it a credit. I would have saved a ton on my taxes in the early years when I was paying interest out the ass. I've consolidated, refinanced to a shorter term, and can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel now, but back then I would have loved it, and think everyone should get at least that with tuition and loan rates still out of control.

All of this. Phasing out deductions or forgiveness creates this perverse system where we effectively punish people that took out loans to get degrees that convert to high earning jobs, while subsidizing the loans that were used to obtain "less valuable" degrees. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19346]

There should be no income limit.  It should be a blanket 10k forgiveness with no requirement to report that income to the IRS (Most debt forgiveness is deemed to be taxable income to the borrower).

[landman 564]

Can we give some money back to those that paid off their student loans...even if 20 years ago? 

Completely agree the interest should be fully tax deductible and am surprised to learn it isn't.

 

['stache 22148]

4 minutes ago, landman said:

Can we give some money back to those that paid off their student loans...even if 20 years ago? 

Completely agree the interest should be fully tax deductible and am surprised to learn it isn't.

 

No. If they were paid off 20 years ago, it means they were probably incurred 20 years prior, well before tuition exploded to the extent "working your way through school" is impossible except for maybe the crappiest rural junior college. Back then you might have the loan equivalent of a used car, today it's essentially the equivalent of a large house and continuing to increase. There were many years where my student loan payments were higher than my mortgage. It's soul crushing. And don't even start with "if you don't want the debt just don't go to college." I shouldn't have to forego being a lawyer and become a plumber because of the cost.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by 'stache

[chainsaw 10312]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

No. If they were paid off 20 years ago, it means they were probably incurred 20 years prior, well before tuition exploded to the extent "working your way through school" is impossible except for maybe the crappiest rural junior college. Back then you might have the loan equivalent of a used car, today it's essentially the equivalent of a large house and continuing to increase. There were many years where my student loan payments were higher than my mortgage. It's soul crushing. And don't even start with "if you don't want the debt just don't go to college." I shouldn't have to forego being a lawyer and become a plumber because of the cost.  

You are the only person who benefitted from that education. We need fewer college educated liberals and more garbage collecting welders who eat from a lunchpail while sitting on a steel beam hanging precariously from a crane.

[TexArcher 39078]

13 minutes ago, landman said:

Can we give some money back to those that paid off their student loans...even if 20 years ago? 

Completely agree the interest should be fully tax deductible and am surprised to learn it isn't.

 

Here!  Present!  I'll take a rebate, please.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Lol poors, I never had student loans. Cancel all that shit, I say.

[StassneyHorn 6790]

125k/yr is 10k monthly gross, which is also the amount of principal relieved. I’m completely guessing that’s how they arrived at a number.

Joey’s 10k tuition trot and refi is just more economic genius from the best job creator this world has ever seen.

 

[Vegas64 716]

4 hours ago, Pancho said:

Starting to come out: Canceling $10k for borrowers making $125,000 or less and extending repayment pause for 4 more months.

 

I hope the means testing part is a bad translation of the rumor, I haven’t seen anything about the 125k leaked by anyone official looking, at least.

[Willfully Horn 8288]

3 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

since he's now reaching for low-hanging fruit now (and sorry trumplicans, this is a very popular and well-reasoned/backed loan forgiveness) now do marijuana. Just rip that fucking bandaid off, Joe. Undo a half-century+ of bad policy and give the people their medicine! Can I get an amen?!

 

Amen.

[babysdaddy 2731]

I think this is horrendous policy....but it is not inflationary.  None of the people getting their debt forgiven have been making student loan payments for a couple of years so that consumption and spending is already in the economy. 

Hopefully JoJo and his merry band of ice cream connoisseurs are saving the marijuana legalization for October.  

[chainsaw 10312]

5 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 None of the people getting their debt forgiven have been making student loan payments for a couple of years so that consumption and spending is already in the economy. 

How would you know that

[babysdaddy 2731]

Just now, chainsaw said:

How would you know that

Federal student loan payments have been paused since 3/13/2020.  

[StassneyHorn 6790]

Any individual with a brain cell would’ve been taking advantage of the straight to principal payments during this “pause” and would provide a larger gain to themselves than this policy does with its one time payoff.

saying nobody has taken advantage of it is a COLOSSAL jump to conclusion.

[chainsaw 10312]

14 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Federal student loan payments have been paused since 3/13/2020.  

Interest is accruing right? Are you saying that borrower payments are being rejected by the lenders?

[ChickenSandwich 9986]

Bloomberg says 60% haven’t made a single payment. 
 

Data from the Federal Reserve show that 60% of borrowers who qualified for forbearance didn’t make a single payment from August 2020 through December 2021.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/most-student-loan-borrowers-made-no-payment-during-us-freeze

[chainsaw 10312]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Bloomberg says 60% haven’t made a single payment. 
 

Data from the Federal Reserve show that 60% of borrowers who qualified for forbearance didn’t make a single payment from August 2020 through December 2021.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/most-student-loan-borrowers-made-no-payment-during-us-freeze

What happens when the payments get unpaused?

[Anastasis 23718]

From the FSA site:

In fact, only about 400,000 DL recipients have opted out of the payment pause and thus were in an active repayment status as of March 31, 2022, compared to 18.1 million recipients in March 2020, shortly after the CARES Act became law. Notably, for those borrowers in forbearance, some may choose to make voluntary payments, even though they are not required to do so. For example, approximately 9.1 million borrowers have made at least one payment between April 2020 and March 2022. This includes about 1.9 million borrowers who have entirely paid off their accounts.

[gmr548 16704]

Seems arbitrary to me, as well, unless there's some data out there saying 125k is some inflection point between people taking honest jobs vs. selling their souls on wall street or something. A salary like that doesn't go very far in DC, NYC, or SF.

I think it’s to avoid being able to point to a bunch of doctor, lawyer, etc. debt as being a handout to the rich.

[gmr548 16704]

How would you know that

No. Paused loans are not accruing interest.

I don’t necessarily agree that it’s bad policy - I think it’s a band aid and obviously the timing is politically motivated - but he’s right that it shouldn’t be inflationary. They’ve been on pause for 2.5 years. It isn’t like people are dropping a monthly payment into the savings account and continuing to live as they have a payment. That’s downright unamerican.

[Anastasis 23718]

17 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

What happens when the payments get unpaused?

[chainsaw 10312]

14 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I think it’s to avoid being able to point to a bunch of doctor, lawyer, etc. debt as being a handout to the rich.

doctors these days are like 500k in debt after residency. give them a crumb of relief

[Bozo_Casanova 26911]

5 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Seems arbitrary to me, as well, unless there's some data out there saying 125k is some inflection point between people taking honest jobs vs. selling their souls on wall street or something. A salary like that doesn't go very far in DC, NYC, or SF.

It’s roughly the 75th income percentile, so  spending money on college didn’t turn out to be such a bad investment that the government probably shouldn’t have guaranteed your loan in the first place. Why should we forgive loans on good investments?

[chainsaw 10312]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It’s roughly the 75th income percentile, so  spending money on college didn’t turn out to be such a bad investment that the government probably shouldn’t have guaranteed your loan in the first place. Why should we forgive loans on good investments?

Depends entirely what the balance is. A high salary doesn't mean you are doing well financially. You could be making 10k per month but have 10k expenses every month due to high interest, high balance, and high cost of living.

[Bozo_Casanova 26911]

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Depends entirely what the balance is. A high salary doesn't mean you are doing well financially. You could be making 10k per month but have 10k expenses every month due to high interest, high balance, and high cost of living.

I don’t see how that matters. The education turned out to be an OK investment for the borrower regardless of whether the borrower has healthy personal finances. Seems like the forgiveness is saying “we shouldn’t have guaranteed this investment.”

[babysdaddy 2731]

Any individual with a brain cell would’ve been taking advantage of the straight to principal payments during this “pause” and would provide a larger gain to themselves than this policy does with its one time payoff.
saying nobody has taken advantage of it is a COLOSSAL jump to conclusion.

[StassneyHorn 6790]

Not sure what’s supposed to be meant by the gif, but between the Bloomberg link that shows 8.8 million people making at least one extra payment and Ana’s post with 9.1 million making at least one payment it’s a fairly significant number greater than zero. 1.9 million completely paid off.

 

[Anastasis 23718]

 

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Seems like the forgiveness is saying “we shouldn’t have guaranteed this investment.”

That messaging will go no where politically. 

[Voldemort86 2259]

I think the income threshold should be increased to 200K. I do agree that wealthy folks shouldn’t get 10,000 in loans forgiven, but boost the threshold up a bit. I’d love to be wrong, but I think Joe Biden will be the last democrat president in history to oppose marijuana reform. States are still free to update their laws as they were under both Obama and trump, but I just don’t see anything coming federally from Biden on this issue. 

[Anastasis 23718]

The difference between 125k or 150k or 200k in the grand scheme of the 2022 income distribution is relatively meaningless. If you believe that we need to forgive student loans, income is irrelevant. Unless perhaps the means tests is founded in the pre-college baseline period. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26911]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

That messaging will go no where politically. 

Oh of course not, but it doesn’t have to, because nothing matters. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

If it’s there to help struggling folks make it 75k-100k combined.  Someone who is actually struggling to pay it off. Not struggling because the new 250 and burban are coming up on their 48 month replacement cycle.