Joe Biden 2022: Enter Dark Brandon

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Schools are aware of the focus on tuition for awhile now, so they have been piling the increase on room/board/extras. Tuition isn't the biggest problem now.

I’m sure they’ll work on reducing it now that they know it’ll be forgiven/paid by the govt anytime the electorate feels like voting themselves some more free money. 

[Captainant 27762]

17 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m sure they’ll work on reducing it now that they know it’ll be forgiven/paid by the govt anytime the electorate feels like voting themselves some more free money. 

Hey if big business interests get to do it, why shouldn't the people get to do it too?

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

it is a real concern though.  if we don't get to work at the cause of high prices, prices will stay high.  every decade someone will do what biden just did and forgive loans.

 

the real impact is that we are publicly financing education.  great, that is what we are supposed to be doing.  but colleges know that it will be financed at whatever cost they feel like charging.  so we do need to pair this with some way to control prices.

[washparkhorn 9939]

20 hours ago, Earl Haffler said:

People who don't live up to their financial commitments and rely on government hand-outs are losers.  Just sayin'.

 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

14 hours ago, mchookem said:

so right. 96 here🤘...the cost of my four years at UT were a small fraction of what my niece would pay at UNT now!

luckily i locked in 2001 tuition prices for her TTF, they are throwing academic scholarship money at her, and she also works. she's gonna manage to get thru undergrad debt-free bc of all that... but if she didn't have all that, or a family that could do all that? she'd probably not even be going. 

TTF was so clutch. My parents paid something like the 1992 rates for my undergrad in the early aughts. I wish they could have done it for law school too.

[chainsaw 9873]

TLDW, Deregulation in 2003

 

[BigOrange1 6470]

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I mean undergrad at UT now at $130k estimated cost of attendance and it's considered a lower cost school 🙄

i've looked into the Executive Ed.D. program and its almost $75k for 57 credit hours.  fucking ridiculous.

[Brew 3049]

Not a fan of an arbitrary $10k income based one time outlay, it doesn’t resolve the problem that got us here or deal with all of the people currently in college or a multitude of other issues. There are so many issues with the lack of financial education, the costs of college, etc that need to be dealt with. It’s fine everyone is getting the one time hit and good for them, but it’s just another check written without resolving any of the underlying issues that are going to catch the next round of graduates.

Incentivize teachers, public service, nursing, other arrears of need with obligation based forgiveness, but the lady that did our tour at GA 2 weeks ago that is triple majoring in Caribbean studies and two other BS majors needs to just pay her loans back (assuming she has them.)

Also, this mindset of it’s better than the other side is dumb. Everyone doesn’t have to line up 100% behind one side or the other. We can still disagree with individual policy decisions.

[Incredulity 11683]

3 minutes ago, Brew said:

Not a fan of an arbitrary $10k income based one time outlay, it doesn’t resolve the problem that got us here or deal with all of the people currently in college or a multitude of other issues. There are so many issues with the lack of financial education, the costs of college, etc that need to be dealt with. It’s fine everyone is getting the one time hit and good for them, but it’s just another check written without resolving any of the underlying issues that are going to catch the next round of graduates.

[Pancho 44986]

7 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

Incentivize teachers, public service, nursing, other arrears of need with obligation based forgiveness, but the lady that did our tour at GA 2 weeks ago that is triple majoring in Caribbean studies and two other BS majors needs to just pay her loans back (assuming she has them.)

 

This is already a thing.

[babysdaddy 2728]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

Biden up about 5 points since the July lows. (ice cream pic here)

[Brew 3049]

13 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This is already a thing.

It is a thing, but I mean a much more simplified approach. Teaching is driven by targeted low income schools and is a fixed balance, public service is driven by 120 consecutive monthly payments, etc. We know we have shortages and needs, make them much more simplified and driven by service over 3-5 years and adjusted to higher amounts then advertise the hell out of it.

[BigOrange1 6470]

15 minutes ago, Brew said:

It is a thing, but I mean a much more simplified approach. Teaching is driven by targeted low income schools and is a fixed balance, public service is driven by 120 consecutive monthly payments, etc. We know we have shortages and needs, make them much more simplified and driven by service over 3-5 years and adjusted to higher amounts then advertise the hell out of it.

i'm biased because i would benefit from it, but lowering the threshold of the public service forgiveness program from 10 years to 5 or 6 years is something that needs to happen.

[Biff Tannen 45728]

57 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

TTF was so clutch. My parents paid something like the 1992 rates for my undergrad in the early aughts. I wish they could have done it for law school too.

I used every eligible hour of TTF.  Something like 160 hours?  Cost my parents $10k.  That's why I had no loans.  Awesome program.

[Neonmoon 38130]

How about just make all STEM degrees free. 

 

[C-Man 27260]

46 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Newsflash -- your side doesn't WANT to fix SHIT. The name of the game is obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, scare old people and "Christians", obstruct some more and call it a Congressional session. Congrats?

[David Dennison 18946]

What should actually be happening is a legislative push by Democrats to allow individuals to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.

[blacklab 11950]

damn. DD and I agree on something. Bankruptcy would fix this fast.

 

[DDD Dad 14348]

On 6/19/2022 at 6:25 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Biden was riding a bike with old school toe clips/cages.  I'd reckon about half the denizens of this website would stand a 50-50 chance of eating shit trying to disengage from that style of toe clips.  There's a reason hardly anyone rides them anymore.

And that mountain bike in post 5140 is old and dated af.  Someone should give him a modern mtb.

I fucked up my shoulder pretty good tipping off my bike when I couldn't get out of my toe clips.  Happens a lot, and always at low speed or a stop.  I've probably fallen a half dozen times over the years.

[Sawbonz 27587]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

it is a real concern though.  if we don't get to work at the cause of high prices, prices will stay high.  every decade someone will do what biden just did and forgive loans.

 

the real impact is that we are publicly financing education.  great, that is what we are supposed to be doing.  but colleges know that it will be financed at whatever cost they feel like charging.  so we do need to pair this with some way to control prices.

Increased cost in public education, in Texas at least, correlates strongly with the decrease, percentage wise, in the state’s share of the bill. Until the late 80’s the state picked up a large percentage of each student’s tuition. The laws funding higher ed sunset, and each time they had to be renewed after about 85 the state allocated fewer dollars. I think I paid around $20 a semester hour for undergrad. Med school was 6500 per year. Just 5 years before that it was 1000. The state was paying well over half the cost back then 

[Brew 3049]

21 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Newsflash -- your side doesn't WANT to fix SHIT. The name of the game is obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, scare old people and "Christians", obstruct some more and call it a Congressional session. Congrats?

Isn’t that what both sides do depending on where control lies, they just have differing opinions on what “fixing shit” looks like?

[MonkeyDoughnut 10356]

23 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What should actually be happening is a legislative push by Democrats to allow individuals to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.

yep... the triple Caribbean studies majors would end overnight as there would be no loans and schools would actually have to show value for the rates they wish to charge

[Sawbonz 27587]

6 minutes ago, Brew said:

Isn’t that what both sides do depending on where control lies, they just have differing opinions on what “fixing shit” looks like?

No

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Increased cost in public education, in Texas at least, correlates strongly with the decrease, percentage wise, in the state’s share of the bill. Until the late 80’s the state picked up a large percentage of each student’s tuition. The laws funding higher ed sunset, and each time they had to be renewed after about 85 the state allocated fewer dollars. I think I paid around $20 a semester hour for undergrad. Med school was 6500 per year. Just 5 years before that it was 1000. The state was paying well over half the cost back then 

this is the other half.

 

https://foursquare.com/v/gregory-outdoor-leisure-pool/4bfda9d1b68d0f47db21e957?openPhotoId=516897f1e4b06cfe6386f01b

 

it's school for crying out loud.  

[Guest]

Sat in on a panel on raising tuition after the move to deregulation. The UT admins running the show were saying that it was the state not offering as much funding and that's why tuition had to increase. Then showed all the pretty graphs comparing tuition to "peer" schools. In the decade after that, new building were going up like mushrooms.

My tuition/fees roughly doubled from $2,500 to $5,000 a semester in four years. 

[Sawbonz 27587]

1 minute ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

this is the other half.

 

https://foursquare.com/v/gregory-outdoor-leisure-pool/4bfda9d1b68d0f47db21e957?openPhotoId=516897f1e4b06cfe6386f01b

 

it's school for crying out loud.  

That is paid for by student fees and other things not tuition. IIRC we paid a couple hundred a semester in fees and a big chunk of that was to build the Rec center by the stadium. Students got to vote on that btw, not sure how it is done now. $50 got you tickets to all home athletic events and another 25 got an OU ticket. Get off my lawn

[Foosters 17885]

46 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

i'm biased because i would benefit from it, but lowering the threshold of the public service forgiveness program from 10 years to 5 or 6 years is something that needs to happen.

I'm 9 years in. This would be unfair to me, thus it should not happen.

[StassneyHorn 6635]

18 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

yep... the triple Caribbean studies majors would end overnight 

Enough with this bullshit. History majors fill up law schools, financial services sector and every other “real” job sector you can imagine.

[Brisketexan 105318]

2 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

it is a real concern though.  if we don't get to work at the cause of high prices, prices will stay high.  every decade someone will do what biden just did and forgive loans.

the real impact is that we are publicly financing education.  great, that is what we are supposed to be doing.  but colleges know that it will be financed at whatever cost they feel like charging.  so we do need to pair this with some way to control prices.

Correct.

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

TLDW, Deregulation in 2003

 

Correct.

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Look at that, Incredulity and I agree on something.  Loan forgiveness alone is not a fix -- it's a temporary treatment of a harmful symptom of the underlying illness.

39 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Newsflash -- your side doesn't WANT to fix SHIT. The name of the game is obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, scare old people and "Christians", obstruct some more and call it a Congressional session. Congrats?

And this is an undeniable crux of the problem.  Gutting state support of higher education, coupled with tuition deregulation, bears a huge portion of the blame for the shitstorm we're in.  However, unlimited free money (the "solution" that they came up with -- including leaders on the left) didn't help.

17 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Increased cost in public education, in Texas at least, correlates strongly with the decrease, percentage wise, in the state’s share of the bill. Until the late 80’s the state picked up a large percentage of each student’s tuition. The laws funding higher ed sunset, and each time they had to be renewed after about 85 the state allocated fewer dollars. I think I paid around $20 a semester hour for undergrad. Med school was 6500 per year. Just 5 years before that it was 1000. The state was paying well over half the cost back then 

All of this as well.

I went to a top-notch state school when tuition was cheap.  Even better than that, the state PAID for me to go to school (full ride, all the way through).  The State of Texas invested in me.  That investment has paid off for the State 100-fold.  I have paid a shit-ton in taxes over the years, I help employ quite a few people, I spend good money in the Texas economy.  Creating these individual economic engines called "successful people" is literally WHY governmental entities got into the university game centuries ago.  It's good policy, good business, and sound strategic thinking.

Where we are today is a function of our new, shitty way of thinking -- increase your economic well-being today by consuming the seedstock you should be saving up/investing in for tomorrow.  We are doing this in almost every aspect of our society and government.  It is already burning us.  It's going to continue to do so.  

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

[YChang 3462]

34 minutes ago, Brew said:

Isn’t that what both sides do depending on where control lies, they just have differing opinions on what “fixing shit” looks like?

Good grief, not even close. 

[Biff Tannen 45728]

40 minutes ago, Brew said:

Isn’t that what both sides do depending on where control lies, they just have differing opinions on what “fixing shit” looks like?

 

33 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

No

 

6 minutes ago, YChang said:

Good grief, not even close. 

These ^^^

[Dahobbs 17682]

2 hours ago, Brew said:

Not a fan of an arbitrary $10k income based one time outlay, it doesn’t resolve the problem that got us here or deal with all of the people currently in college or a multitude of other issues. There are so many issues with the lack of financial education, the costs of college, etc that need to be dealt with. It’s fine everyone is getting the one time hit and good for them, but it’s just another check written without resolving any of the underlying issues that are going to catch the next round of graduates.

Incentivize teachers, public service, nursing, other arrears of need with obligation based forgiveness, but the lady that did our tour at GA 2 weeks ago that is triple majoring in Caribbean studies and two other BS majors needs to just pay her loans back (assuming she has them.)

Also, this mindset of it’s better than the other side is dumb. Everyone doesn’t have to line up 100% behind one side or the other. We can still disagree with individual policy decisions.

This is silly. Biden can't just fix higher education. But he can, essentially on his own, help alleviate some of the symptoms. I agree we need to also address the root disease. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't offer some painkillers before the disease is cured.  

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Also, lulz that this thread is going on at the same time as the UT is the richest! thread.  
 

 

[chainsaw 9873]

I don't want to derail a Dark Brandon thread with a comprehensive discussion of Texas higher education prices skyrocketing. There is, of course, a political culprit at the bottom of what normal people would reasonably expect to be an apolitical problem. If that thread exists, someone should link it here.

I know there's a DT thread about how our endowment is about to dad dick Harvard's. In a CR thread on that topic, I would ask why that endowment money isn't being applied toward keeping tuition affordable and answer my own question by pointing to Greg Abbott, Rick Perry, and their political lackeys.

But for purposes of this thread, I think there's gonna be a lot of wannabe home buyers whose down payment funds just got $10k heavier, which in theory means there will be more people ready to buy houses. That's all thanks to Dark Brandon.

[Pancho 44986]

2 hours ago, Brew said:

It is a thing, but I mean a much more simplified approach. Teaching is driven by targeted low income schools and is a fixed balance, public service is driven by 120 consecutive monthly payments, etc. We know we have shortages and needs, make them much more simplified and driven by service over 3-5 years and adjusted to higher amounts then advertise the hell out of it.

It’s not just teachers that qualify for loan forgiveness, though.

And yes, the years of service should be lowered. 

[Dahobbs 17682]

5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I don't want to derail a Dark Brandon thread with a comprehensive discussion of Texas higher education prices skyrocketing. There is, of course, a political culprit at the bottom of what normal people would reasonably expect to be an apolitical problem. If that thread exists, someone should link it here.

I know there's a DT thread about how our endowment is about to dad dick Harvard's. In a CR thread on that topic, I would ask why that endowment money isn't being applied toward keeping tuition affordable and answer my own question by pointing to Greg Abbott, Rick Perry, and their political lackeys.

But for purposes of this thread, I think there's gonna be a lot of wannabe home buyers whose down payment funds just got $10k heavier, which in theory means there will be more people ready to buy houses. That's all thanks to Dark Brandon.

This is not entirely incorrect. The PUF cannot be applied to operational expenses under the Texas Constitution, Art. VII Sec. 18. It can't even be used to construct student housing as that is expressly prohibited (because we are assholes). The separate and smaller AUF (available university fund) can be used more generally for administration. But only a small portion of the PUF can be added to the AUF every year. 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

 

19 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

But for purposes of this thread, I think there's gonna be a lot of wannabe home buyers whose down payment funds just got $10k heavier, which in theory means there will be more people ready to buy houses. That's all thanks to Dark Brandon.

I don't think many people will suddenly have an extra $10k in cash laying around just from having that amount knocked off their loan. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

i just got a voicemail from a very nice lady who saw my pending status and wants to make sure i'm able to get access to the new loan cancellation program asap.  this is all very encouraging because i've never had a student loan.  can a resident republican help me out - how do i take advantage of this situation?

also this move by biden to only cancel $10k is bullshit and doesn't fix anything because it doesn't cure cancer nor does it put a man on the surface of mars.  get it together, democrats.

[CooterBrown 18027]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

How about just make all STEM degrees free. 

 

All undergrad degrees should be free.  A major driver for American progress would be a well educated population with an extremely diverse educational background. 

 

 

 

[chainsaw 9873]

39 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

This is not entirely incorrect. The PUF cannot be applied to operational expenses under the Texas Constitution, Art. VII Sec. 18. It can't even be used to construct student housing as that is expressly prohibited (because we are assholes). The separate and smaller AUF (available university fund) can be used more generally for administration. But only a small portion of the PUF can be added to the AUF every year. 

English please?

[Dahobbs 17682]

8 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

English please?

Sorry, the first sentence should have said this is not entirely correct. UT's endowment, or at least the vast majority of it, cannot be used to keep tuition affordable. Under the Texas Constitution it can basically only be used for construction, land purchase, and acquiring capital equipment and library material. So, you really can't blame Abbott or any current politician for the fact that the fund isn't being used to reduce tuition. 

[chainsaw 9873]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Sorry, the first sentence should have said this is not entirely correct. UT's endowment, or at least the vast majority of it, cannot be used to keep tuition affordable. Under the Texas Constitution it can basically only be used for construction, land purchase, and acquiring capital equipment and library material. So, you really can't blame Abbott or any current politician for the fact that the fund isn't being used to reduce tuition. 

What a trash constitution

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

that's why we have amendment tuesdays

[Foosters 17885]

50 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i just got a voicemail from a very nice lady who saw my pending status and wants to make sure i'm able to get access to the new loan cancellation program asap.  this is all very encouraging because i've never had a student loan.  can a resident republican help me out - how do i take advantage of this situation?

also this move by biden to only cancel $10k is bullshit and doesn't fix anything because it doesn't cure cancer nor does it put a man on the surface of mars.  get it together, democrats.

I think the same lady just called me and sounded very concerned about my car warranty status.

[elfenix 34332]

2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Sat in on a panel on raising tuition after the move to deregulation. The UT admins running the show were saying that it was the state not offering as much funding and that's why tuition had to increase. Then showed all the pretty graphs comparing tuition to "peer" schools. In the decade after that, new building were going up like mushrooms.

My tuition/fees roughly doubled from $2,500 to $5,000 a semester in four years. 

the concrete never sets at the university of texas

[Longhorn_Fan68 33898]

hoo boy, the "life isn't fair" and "suck it up, libtard" crowd is sure shitting in their depends over this one. welp, feel free to rewind a few characters and reread and then at the end remember to fuck your own face.

[Guest]

So going into mid-terms, what could be accomplished relatively quickly to improve Dem standing?

- a vote on codifying gay marriage

- a vote on raising the minimum wage

- legalization of marijuana through executive action

- a vote on codifying abortion rights

For those votes, don't necessarily think they will pass, but could make the line between D and R even clearer -- especially with a stark reminder on abortion rights.

[chainsaw 9873]

1 minute ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

So going into mid-terms, what could be accomplished relatively quickly to improve Dem standing?

- a vote on codifying gay marriage

- a vote on raising the minimum wage

- legalization of marijuana through executive action

- a vote on codifying abortion rights

For those votes, don't necessarily think they will pass, but could make the line between D and R even clearer -- especially with a stark reminder on abortion rights.

release nonviolent offenders (commute sentences, pardons) from federal prison

release nonviolent detainees from federal immigration prisons

intelligent and competent response to hurricanes wherever they hit

forgive tax debts for victims of opioid crisis (buying votes in WV/PA/OH/KY)

bring Brittney Griner home

offer abortion services on federal lands

 

[Dutchrudder 11150]

"Do not let perfect be the enemy of good." - Voltaire