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USMNT 2022

Napoleon

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shnsajax

shnsajax 3,591

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I've held my tongue on a lot of the call-up stuff and I guess it's because I don't have a lot to say about it. I will say the circus around not inviting Tim Ream and Jordan Pefok to the last camp before Qatar is rather entertaining. If those are the difference makers we need to make noise in November then we're fucked before we get off the plane. Say what you want about Gregg he generally puts the right players on the pitch. If either of those guys don't make the cut I promise that there is valid reasoning behind it. 
Let's see how we look on Friday. 

Can’t say I agree. Considering some of the injuries we have had on the backline and Ream’s ability to play out wide and in the middle makes his useful.

Pefok plays a position we haven’t been able to figure out this entire cycle and really never given a solid chance by Gregg. I have no problem listing him behind Sargent, Ferreira but we can’t really say he should be behind Pepi at this very moment and players like Pefok do serve a vital role as a late sub. Again Pepi can serve that same role but Pefok has done everything you could ask for his club team where Pepi has had a full year of struggles.
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ztejas

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34 minutes ago, shnsajax said:


Can’t say I agree. Considering some of the injuries we have had on the backline and Ream’s ability to play out wide and in the middle makes his useful.

Pefok plays a position we haven’t been able to figure out this entire cycle and really never given a solid chance by Gregg. I have no problem listing him behind Sargent, Ferreira but we can’t really say he should be behind Pepi at this very moment and players like Pefok do serve a vital role as a late sub. Again Pepi can serve that same role but Pefok has done everything you could ask for his club team where Pepi has had a full year of struggles.

I know y'all don't agree. I've read pages of it. I'm not saying I'm right - it's entirely possible that Ream or Pefok could be a difference maker. I just think it's fairly unlikely. I think Ferreira is our best 9 right now and personally I don't think it's close. I also know that Ream is 34 and in past appearances with the NT hasn't been great. Him being decent in 7 games with Fulham is a nice sign but not an end-all-be-all.

Let's keep in mind that it's entirely possible that Gregg likes both Ream and Pefok to make the final 26 but just wants to get another look at some other players. That said - if either of them were so inevitable then they would have been locks and regular fixtures much earlier in the process (and yes I get that CB has had some injuries shake that up).

The anxiety level is very high right now and I totally get that. In the midst of the striker/CB discussion, however, I believe a lot of fans are missing the forest for the trees. This is a $300M side with world-class talent in the midfield and on the wings. There is nothing left to do but to let these guys play and let Gregg do his job. I hate to break that to some of you.

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dieucla98

dieucla98 2,942

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1 hour ago, Juicy said:

I don't think its unreasonable or unlikely to think that (currently) one of the top scorers, in one of the top leagues in the world would be useful in the WC.

Goals matter. You need people who are going to put the ball in the next. 

Top scorer, top league, AND top team. What more do you want? We don't have a bunch of Lewandowskis running around with US Passports, just a shit ton of Wolandowskis. It just makes zero sense to not include Pefok. 

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12,883

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I think few of us see Ream as a difference maker. Pefok, sure. But that’s because the guy is scoring goals. But that’s a different making stat  In soccer is THE difference making stat.

The reason that we are talking about Ream is because it’s the continuation of a discussion that has happened across the entire Berhalter tenure, him him leaving off in form and high talent guys for other players. In and of itself, Ream is a silly discussion. 

But Pefok isn’t. And frankly it’s not just us. It is THE talking point for everyone.

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2022/09/19/jordan-pefok-thriving-union-berlin-usmnt-call-up-eludes-in-form-striker/ 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/united-states/news/jordan-pefok-usmnt-roster-world-cup-2022-september-pepi-sargent/mmkdyaxdo5eerw3m5kwjrvcs

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/pefok-pepi-score-steffen-returns-mckennie-stands-out-among-usmnt-world-cup-candi

This isn't the end of course as the WC is still 2 months away. There is a lot to play out, but it still is head scratching. 

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Juicy

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17 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

 

This isn't the end of course as the WC is still 2 months away. There is a lot to play out, but it still is head scratching. 

Yep. 

Going back to this it is just a mind blowing situation.

Quote

One of two things are true: 1) Pefok isn’t going to the World Cup. 2) Pefok is going to World Cup but isn’t brought in for the WC prep camp 2 months before. Both would be incredibly bizarre calls. Can everyone stop acting like #2 is a normal thing for a coach to do.

I know coaches aren't supposed to listen to the outside noise, but I don't see Gregg making it past January with a Job if the US doesn't make a run and he leaves some of our best talent off the rost. 

 

 

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8,687

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13 hours ago, shnsajax said:

Can’t say I agree. Considering some of the injuries we have had on the backline and Ream’s ability to play out wide and in the middle makes his useful.

Pefok plays a position we haven’t been able to figure out this entire cycle and really never given a solid chance by Gregg. I have no problem listing him behind Sargent, Ferreira but we can’t really say he should be behind Pepi at this very moment and players like Pefok do serve a vital role as a late sub. Again Pepi can serve that same role but Pefok has done everything you could ask for his club team where Pepi has had a full year of struggles.


#TheReamDream

re Pefok:

1) The pass from Reyna to Pefok in the Azteca was BEHIND Pefok.  He couldn’t get a shot on goal from where the ball was in relation to where he was.

•The ball was NOT set up on a platter for him to score.

•Gio was in an offsides position and therefore could not accept a return pass.

•Pefok knocked the ball toward the corner flag 🚩 where no one could do anything with it.

•Gio reacted like Gio always reacts. 🤷‍♂️ (I think)

What we don’t know is:

A) Would Pefok frequently mistime his runs in training?

B) Would another player have likely been able to kill the ball and then lay it off to a trailing teammate?

C) How many times did Pefok tend to flub opportunities in training?

D) How Pefok and the teammates responded to this missed opportunity after the game. (Did Gio mouth off in the locker room? Did Pefok stand up to the Golden Child?)

 

From a pure production stand point, Pefok should absolutely be with the team to be a massive body in front of the goal when tricky buildup isn’t working against a team that will sit back. (Iran)

But we don’t know everything that is going into the final decision.

 

2 hours ago, Juicy said:

Yep. 

Going back to this it is just a mind blowing situation.

I know coaches aren't supposed to listen to the outside noise, but I don't see Gregg making it past January with a Job if the US doesn't make a run and he leaves some of our best talent off the roster.

1) If the USMNT advances to the Quarterfinals (wins one knockout game)…

95%+ Berhalter will be the USMNT through 2026

 

2) If the USMNT advances to the knockout stage and loses…

75%+ Berhalter will be the USMNT through 2026

 

3) If the USMNT fails to make it out of the group…

25% Berhalter will be the USMNT manager going forward.

 

4) If the USMNT loses all three group games…

2% to 5% Berhalter will be the USMNT manager going forward.

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Juicy

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16 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

 

 

1) If the USMNT advances to the Quarterfinals (wins one knockout game)…

95%+ Berhalter will be the USMNT through 2026

 

2) If the USMNT advances to the knockout stage and loses…

75%+ Berhalter will be the USMNT through 2026

 

3) If the USMNT fails to make it out of the group…

25% Berhalter will be the USMNT manager going forward.

 

4) If the USMNT loses all three group games…

2% to 5% Berhalter will be the USMNT manager going forward.

These odds are all fine and dandy, but the US has a pretty tough group, and making a run would involve getting out of the group. Which is a tough thing to do if you don't bring your best team. 

If the USA doesn't make it out of the group stage, and they don't bring what is perceived my many to be their top scoring threat at the striker position, it would be very difficult to justify keeping Gregg. Especially with all the talent the US currently has and will have at its disposal in 2026. You can't go back to Gregg if he isn't putting the "golden generation" of US soccer in a position to win.  

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Juicy

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The biggest knock against Gregg since he took over has been his player selection. That player selection is currently magnified as we are about to start our first world cup in 8 years as a country. In this case its Pefok/Reem/Whoever, and if Qatar doesn't go well, it is pretty easy for everyone to use that as the excuse. With all the talent the USA has there will be pressure on the federation to put someone in place that will maximize that talent.

There will always be people who disagree with who coaches are playing, in every sport. This is no different. 


For your odds above I would adjust one thing, and it is based on the culmination of Gregg's entire tenue of roster decisions. 

Gregg brings Pefok and makes it out of the group stage. 100% he is back regardless of what happens in the knockout stage. 

Gregg doesn't bring Pefok and the USA doesn't make it out of the group stage. 95% chance he is done. 

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8,687

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I will remind everyone that hirings are more often made with relationships being valued more than simply the best resume. 
 

Ex: Gregg Berhalter over Tata Martino

If it were up to us, Gregg would have never even been interviewed. 
 

We don’t know the relationship that he has with the powers at the US soccer federation, the MLS owners, NIKE (though we know there is a mutual love her based on his footwear choices), other corporate sponsors…

For 2026, I would want the corporate world to spring for Pep, Zidane, Ancelotti, Conte, or maybe Argentina’s current guy (especially if Argentina wins it all).

There is zero reason to have Berhalter in charge of the USMNT, but we don’t know what really goes into making the decision. 

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Captain Ron

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29 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

I will remind everyone that hirings are more often made with relationships being valued more than simply the best resume. 
 

Ex: Gregg Berhalter over Tata Martino

If it were up to us, Gregg would have never even been interviewed. 
 

We don’t know the relationship that he has with the powers at the US soccer federation, the MLS owners, NIKE (though we know there is a mutual love her based on his footwear choices), other corporate sponsors…

For 2026, I would want the corporate world to spring for Pep, Zidane, Ancelotti, Conte, or maybe Argentina’s current guy (especially if Argentina wins it all).

There is zero reason to have Berhalter in charge of the USMNT, but we don’t know what really goes into making the decision. 

YES WE DID

His brother was U.S. Soccer’s Chief Commercial and Strategy Officer!

https://www.frontrowsoccer.com/2020/02/06/moving-on-jay-berhalter-usmnt-coachs-brother-to-leave-u-s-soccer/

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Captain Ron

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2 hours ago, Napoleon said:


#TheReamDream

re Pefok:

1) The pass from Reyna to Pefok in the Azteca was BEHIND Pefok.  He couldn’t get a shot on goal from where the ball was in relation to where he was.

•The ball was NOT set up on a platter for him to score.

•Gio was in an offsides position and therefore could not accept a return pass.

•Pefok knocked the ball toward the corner flag 🚩 where no one could do anything with it.

•Gio reacted like Gio always reacts. 🤷‍♂️ (I think)

What we don’t know is:

A) Would Pefok frequently mistime his runs in training?

B) Would another player have likely been able to kill the ball and then lay it off to a trailing teammate?

C) How many times did Pefok tend to flub opportunities in training?

D) How Pefok and the teammates responded to this missed opportunity after the game. (Did Gio mouth off in the locker room? Did Pefok stand up to the Golden Child?)

 

From a pure production stand point, Pefok should absolutely be with the team to be a massive body in front of the goal when tricky buildup isn’t working against a team that will sit back. (Iran)

But we don’t know everything that is going into the final decision.

 

1) If the USMNT advances to the Quarterfinals (wins one knockout game)…

95%+ Berhalter will be the USMNT through 2026

 

2) If the USMNT advances to the knockout stage and loses…

75%+ Berhalter will be the USMNT through 2026

 

3) If the USMNT fails to make it out of the group…

25% Berhalter will be the USMNT manager going forward.

 

4) If the USMNT loses all three group games…

2% to 5% Berhalter will be the USMNT manager going forward.

BTW - how I see your percentages:

1) If the USMNT advances to the Quarterfinals (wins one knockout game)…
100% - Berhalter will be coach unless he doesn't want it

2) If the USMNT advances to the knockout stage and loses…
50%

3) If the USMNT fails to make it out of the group…
0% - He must advance to be the coach in 2026 
He MIGHT make it if we don't advance, but we look really good and just get very unlucky. 

4) If the USMNT loses all three group games…
0% - And he gets left in Qatar.

I think us as a host in 2026 really makes us looking good this go around an important factor.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8,687

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38 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

YES WE DID**

His brother was** U.S. Soccer’s Chief Commercial and Strategy Officer!

https://www.frontrowsoccer.com/2020/02/06/moving-on-jay-berhalter-usmnt-coachs-brother-to-leave-u-s-soccer/

We don’t know* the relationship that he has* with the powers at the US soccer federation,

 

*”know” & “has”… PRESENT TENSE

**”DID” & “was”… PAST TENSE

…[reading comprehension]…

 

23 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

BTW - how I see your percentages:

1) If the USMNT advances to the Quarterfinals (wins one knockout game)…
100% - Berhalter will be coach unless he doesn't want it

2) If the USMNT advances to the knockout stage and loses…
50%

3) If the USMNT fails to make it out of the group…
0% - He must advance to be the coach in 2026 
He MIGHT make it if we don't advance, but we look really good and just get very unlucky. 

4) If the USMNT loses all three group games…
0% - And he gets left in Qatar.

I think us as a host in 2026 really makes us looking good this go around an important factor.

Too much logic in these percentages. 

What evidence from US Soccer’s actions over the last 35 years make(s) you believe that all decisions are made by what outsiders deem is the logical choice?

image.gif.04bc04c432a0ce182c3eebf6ffbc0635.gif

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eljinca

eljinca 279

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5 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

BTW - how I see your percentages:

1) If the USMNT advances to the Quarterfinals (wins one knockout game)…
100% - Berhalter will be coach unless he doesn't want it

2) If the USMNT advances to the knockout stage and loses…
50%

3) If the USMNT fails to make it out of the group…
0% - He must advance to be the coach in 2026 
He MIGHT make it if we don't advance, but we look really good and just get very unlucky. 

4) If the USMNT loses all three group games…
0% - And he gets left in Qatar.

I think us as a host in 2026 really makes us looking good this go around an important factor.

This is absolutely correct. England is very good.

Wales is a bunch of Championship players and the decomposing corpse of Garett Bale. Sure, they can beat us if we do not play our best but we should win that game.

If we can’t beat Iran, the wheels have flown off the wagon.

Should be 2-0-1. I could definitely see a 0-1-1 needing to win against Iran and move forward on goal difference but that would be a disappointing result imo.

 

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Captain Ron

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7 hours ago, Napoleon said:

We don’t know* the relationship that he has* with the powers at the US soccer federation,

 

*”know” & “has”… PRESENT TENSE

**”DID” & “was”… PAST TENSE

…[reading comprehension]…

 

Bah, your just using semantics now to deflect.

In the end we know that Berhalter is in and part of the system, a cabal if you (or others) will. His brother being part of the staff just demonstrated his in. And with guys like him and Earnie Stewart (a contemporary player with Gregg) in the higher echelons of US Soccer, I can extrapolate that Gregg is "in" with them. 

 

Is that enough for him to keep his job after this cycle ... ?

 

7 hours ago, Napoleon said:

Too much logic in these percentages. 

What evidence from US Soccer’s actions over the last 35 years make(s) you believe that all decisions are made by what outsiders deem is the logical choice?

image.gif.04bc04c432a0ce182c3eebf6ffbc0635.gif

 

 

 

Actually your mistake here is thinking "the logical choice" of the outsider is the logical choice of TPTB at US Soccer.

Given what I have seen US Soccer do once we became a mainstay in World Cups shows their complete logic - they want Americans coaching the team. Post Bora:

  • Sampson
  • Arena
  • Bradley
  • Klinsmann
  • Arena
  • Berhalter

Klinsmann was a step out of their comfort zone and they quickly stepped back. I think they have followed a formula pretty solidly, you look at how those coaches performed, you see these results hold.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8,687

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23 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Bah, your just using semantics now to deflect.

image.gif.5a11b34755e6e1d57139d53ab4e0ca3d.gif
 

I am hyper-aware of conjugation & verb tense. I taught English to people I still interact with and I know that they assume that what I write is correct, so I pay attention to that. 
 

We knew Gregg’s relationship in the past. We don’t know his current his current job security. 

Tense matters. Comprehension matters. 
 

Now on to something more important…

Who is in on the Panini stickers and the wall schedule?

72F73377-6030-4A1D-B35B-51EE0295A9B8.thumb.jpeg.1802b5915916291a7c74979d14e88533.jpeg
E99DAED6-CA29-4A0C-B07E-8DE23E72C74D.thumb.jpeg.a5c8d9a6dc3e6d2d94ccc9f038f7607e.jpeg

https://www.amazon.com/Soccer-Schedule-Poster-Calendar-Decorations/dp/B0B6FGT8TL/ref=pd_aw_fbt_img_sccl_1/134-6566854-9257015?pd_rd_w=O1Q8G&content-id=amzn1.sym.b6e57bf5-2054-445a-8980-1886178987a5&pf_rd_p=b6e57bf5-2054-445a-8980-1886178987a5&pf_rd_r=PV7KHHGHSD4Q2Y4CXBV1&pd_rd_wg=yWkaq&pd_rd_r=2287b4bc-cb77-4676-9631-e3ba2d7eb740&pd_rd_i=B0B6FGT8TL&psc=1#immersive-view_1663813701485

Edited by Napoleon
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shnsajax

shnsajax 3,591

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9 hours ago, Napoleon said:

For 2026, I would want the corporate world to spring for Pep, Zidane, Ancelotti, Conte, or maybe Argentina’s current guy (especially if Argentina wins it all).

There is zero reason to have Berhalter in charge of the USMNT, but we don’t know what really goes into making the decision. 

I can't even imagine 4 years of marketing with Pep or Zidane in charge before 2026. They hype and the buildup would be insane and everything the USSF could use. 

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shnsajax

shnsajax 3,591

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43 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Actually your mistake here is thinking "the logical choice" of the outsider is the logical choice of TPTB at US Soccer.

Given what I have seen US Soccer do once we became a mainstay in World Cups shows their complete logic - they want Americans coaching the team. Post Bora:

  • Sampson
  • Arena
  • Bradley
  • Klinsmann
  • Arena
  • Berhalter

I mean it should be fairly simple and just point to what the English have done over the past 50 years. None of that matters especially with the bulk of the team (espeically the core) now playing in Europe.

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