Op-ED by Turd Blossom

[Gil Bang 26091]

We’re in an acrimonious period of partisan tribalism and have been for some time. Both parties are guilty of overwrought denunciations of their political opponents. My criticisms are often aimed at Democrats; on the anniversary of Jan. 6, I’m addressing squarely those Republicans who for a year have excused the actions of the rioters who stormed the Capitol, disrupted Congress as it received the Electoral College’s results, and violently attempted to overturn the election.

These apologists say those who stormed the Capitol were innocent patriots, tourists visiting the seat of the national government to petition their elected representatives peacefully. We’re told that these harmless, ordinary Americans are being persecuted as political prisoners

Let’s stipulate that while the thousands who went to the Capitol a year ago were wrong to insist the election was stolen, most weren’t violent as they exercised their First Amendment rights to gather peacefully on the Mall—just as I had seen liberals gather to protest both inaugurations of President George W. Bush.

But last year there were several thousand protesters willing to use force to disrupt Congress in its constitutional duty to receive and certify the electoral vote. Some went to Washington with that purpose in mind. Others were swept up in the moment’s savagery, led astray by stronger wills with dangerous motives.

The leaders of this group were intent on committing violence, some having planned to do so for weeks. Many wore tactical gear. Some came armed with chemical agents, flagpoles, batons and sticks. They broke through barricades and assaulted approximately 140 police officers, in some cases with an officer’s own shield or gear. They smashed doors and windows, illegally entered the Capitol, ransacked offices and searched for leaders of Congress, and made dire threats about what would happen if they found them.

More than 725 people have been charged so far, and law enforcement is searching for hundreds more suspects who appear on video or social media, some recorded attacking police officers. At least 163 people have pleaded guilty, and 71 have been sentenced. Only one defendant’s charges have been dismissed. Many of the most serious trials have yet to be held, as lawyers prepare defenses or negotiate plea deals.

So, on this anniversary, here’s a simple thought experiment: What if the other side had done it? What if in early January 2017, Democrats similarly attired and armed had stormed the Capitol and attempted to keep Congress from receiving the Electoral College results for the 2016 presidential election?

What if Democrats claimed that Donald Trump’s razor-thin victories in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin resulted from extensive voter fraud and should be rejected, despite having failed to establish in a single court that extensive fraud had actually occurred?

What if some of these Democrats breached the Capitol defenses and threatened violence against the Republican speaker, Paul Ryan, and Republican Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell ?

What if they insisted that in his role as Senate president then-Vice President Joe Biden had sole authority to seat Hillary Clinton’s electors from any contested states and thereby hand her the presidency?

If this happened, would some of my fellow Republicans have accepted it as merely a protest? Would they have called patriots those charged with violent acts against our country, its laws and Constitution? Would they have accepted such extralegal means to change the outcome of a presidential election?

No they would not. I’m certain of that.

If Democrats had done what some Trump supporters did on that violent Jan. 6, Republicans would have criticized them mercilessly and been right to do so. Republicans would have torched any high official who encouraged violence or stood mute while it was waged and been right to do so. Republicans would have demanded an investigation to find who was responsible for the violence and been right to do so.

To move beyond Jan. 6, 2021, we must put country ahead of party. For Democrats, that means resisting their leadership’s petty habit of aggravating partisan fault lines by indiscriminately condemning all who came to Washington that day.

 

We Republicans have a heavier burden. I’ve been a Republican my entire life, and believe in what the Republican Party, at its best, has represented for decades. There can be no soft-pedaling what happened and no absolution for those who planned, encouraged and aided the attempt to overthrow our democracy. Love of country demands nothing less. That’s true patriotism.

Mr. Rove helped organize the political-action committee American Crossroads and is author of “The Triumph of William McKinley” (Simon & Schuster, 2015).

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19217]

Well, somebody watched A Time to Kill.

for me though, I am still…

[mchookem 16495]

wow.

and fuck you, Karl.

Edited January 6, 2022 by mchookem

[Hagbard Celine 10970]

plaintext:

We’re in an acrimonious period of partisan tribalism and have been for some time. Both parties are guilty of overwrought denunciations of their political opponents. My criticisms are often aimed at Democrats; on the anniversary of Jan. 6, I’m addressing squarely those Republicans who for a year have excused the actions of the rioters who stormed the Capitol, disrupted Congress as it received the Electoral College’s results, and violently attempted to overturn the election.

These apologists say those who stormed the Capitol were innocent patriots, tourists visiting the seat of the national government to petition their elected representatives peacefully. We’re told that these harmless, ordinary Americans are being persecuted as political prisoners

Let’s stipulate that while the thousands who went to the Capitol a year ago were wrong to insist the election was stolen, most weren’t violent as they exercised their First Amendment rights to gather peacefully on the Mall—just as I had seen liberals gather to protest both inaugurations of President George W. Bush.

But last year there were several thousand protesters willing to use force to disrupt Congress in its constitutional duty to receive and certify the electoral vote. Some went to Washington with that purpose in mind. Others were swept up in the moment’s savagery, led astray by stronger wills with dangerous motives.

The leaders of this group were intent on committing violence, some having planned to do so for weeks. Many wore tactical gear. Some came armed with chemical agents, flagpoles, batons and sticks. They broke through barricades and assaulted approximately 140 police officers, in some cases with an officer’s own shield or gear. They smashed doors and windows, illegally entered the Capitol, ransacked offices and searched for leaders of Congress, and made dire threats about what would happen if they found them.

More than 725 people have been charged so far, and law enforcement is searching for hundreds more suspects who appear on video or social media, some recorded attacking police officers. At least 163 people have pleaded guilty, and 71 have been sentenced. Only one defendant’s charges have been dismissed. Many of the most serious trials have yet to be held, as lawyers prepare defenses or negotiate plea deals.

So, on this anniversary, here’s a simple thought experiment: What if the other side had done it? What if in early January 2017, Democrats similarly attired and armed had stormed the Capitol and attempted to keep Congress from receiving the Electoral College results for the 2016 presidential election?

What if Democrats claimed that Donald Trump’s razor-thin victories in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin resulted from extensive voter fraud and should be rejected, despite having failed to establish in a single court that extensive fraud had actually occurred?

What if some of these Democrats breached the Capitol defenses and threatened violence against the Republican speaker, Paul Ryan, and Republican Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell ?

What if they insisted that in his role as Senate president then-Vice President Joe Biden had sole authority to seat Hillary Clinton’s electors from any contested states and thereby hand her the presidency?

If this happened, would some of my fellow Republicans have accepted it as merely a protest? Would they have called patriots those charged with violent acts against our country, its laws and Constitution? Would they have accepted such extralegal means to change the outcome of a presidential election?

No they would not. I’m certain of that.

If Democrats had done what some Trump supporters did on that violent Jan. 6, Republicans would have criticized them mercilessly and been right to do so. Republicans would have torched any high official who encouraged violence or stood mute while it was waged and been right to do so. Republicans would have demanded an investigation to find who was responsible for the violence and been right to do so.

To move beyond Jan. 6, 2021, we must put country ahead of party. For Democrats, that means resisting their leadership’s petty habit of aggravating partisan fault lines by indiscriminately condemning all who came to Washington that day.

 

We Republicans have a heavier burden. I’ve been a Republican my entire life, and believe in what the Republican Party, at its best, has represented for decades. There can be no soft-pedaling what happened and no absolution for those who planned, encouraged and aided the attempt to overthrow our democracy. Love of country demands nothing less. That’s true patriotism.

Mr. Rove helped organize the political-action committee American Crossroads and is author of “The Triumph of William McKinley” (Simon & Schuster, 2015).

[Pato del Muerto 52757]

Ok rove and Cruz now. Is the party testing the waters of a separation from trumpism?  Or are they just taking some nonvulnerable players and running a bit of cover on the anniversary to help keep hesitant Rs from abandoning them?

 

also I notice that he doesn’t ask the question of what if they succeeded in killing pelosi?  Or killing pence?  Or just stopping the count?  Throwing out the peoples’ vote in favor of a congressional vote that they knew would reverse the election as few to none of the republicans would cast votes for Biden even though they knew he won. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[Hagbard Celine 10970]

the latter

[Born to Run 6570]

Fuck this asshole or anyone who brags on being a "lifelong ....". Your positions should evolve as the world evolves. New shit has come to light.

[tantric superman 4668]

Comic sans:

We’re in an acrimonious period of partisan tribalism and have been for some time. Both parties are guilty of overwrought denunciations of their political opponents. My criticisms are often aimed at Democrats; on the anniversary of Jan. 6, I’m addressing squarely those Republicans who for a year have excused the actions of the rioters who stormed the Capitol, disrupted Congress as it received the Electoral College’s results, and violently attempted to overturn the election.

These apologists say those who stormed the Capitol were innocent patriots, tourists visiting the seat of the national government to petition their elected representatives peacefully. We’re told that these harmless, ordinary Americans are being persecuted as political prisoners

Let’s stipulate that while the thousands who went to the Capitol a year ago were wrong to insist the election was stolen, most weren’t violent as they exercised their First Amendment rights to gather peacefully on the Mall—just as I had seen liberals gather to protest both inaugurations of President George W. Bush.

But last year there were several thousand protesters willing to use force to disrupt Congress in its constitutional duty to receive and certify the electoral vote. Some went to Washington with that purpose in mind. Others were swept up in the moment’s savagery, led astray by stronger wills with dangerous motives.

The leaders of this group were intent on committing violence, some having planned to do so for weeks. Many wore tactical gear. Some came armed with chemical agents, flagpoles, batons and sticks. They broke through barricades and assaulted approximately 140 police officers, in some cases with an officer’s own shield or gear. They smashed doors and windows, illegally entered the Capitol, ransacked offices and searched for leaders of Congress, and made dire threats about what would happen if they found them.

More than 725 people have been charged so far, and law enforcement is searching for hundreds more suspects who appear on video or social media, some recorded attacking police officers. At least 163 people have pleaded guilty, and 71 have been sentenced. Only one defendant’s charges have been dismissed. Many of the most serious trials have yet to be held, as lawyers prepare defenses or negotiate plea deals.

So, on this anniversary, here’s a simple thought experiment: What if the other side had done it? What if in early January 2017, Democrats similarly attired and armed had stormed the Capitol and attempted to keep Congress from receiving the Electoral College results for the 2016 presidential election?

What if Democrats claimed that Donald Trump’s razor-thin victories in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin resulted from extensive voter fraud and should be rejected, despite having failed to establish in a single court that extensive fraud had actually occurred?

What if some of these Democrats breached the Capitol defenses and threatened violence against the Republican speaker, Paul Ryan, and Republican Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell ?

What if they insisted that in his role as Senate president then-Vice President Joe Biden had sole authority to seat Hillary Clinton’s electors from any contested states and thereby hand her the presidency?

If this happened, would some of my fellow Republicans have accepted it as merely a protest? Would they have called patriots those charged with violent acts against our country, its laws and Constitution? Would they have accepted such extralegal means to change the outcome of a presidential election?

No they would not. I’m certain of that.

If Democrats had done what some Trump supporters did on that violent Jan. 6, Republicans would have criticized them mercilessly and been right to do so. Republicans would have torched any high official who encouraged violence or stood mute while it was waged and been right to do so. Republicans would have demanded an investigation to find who was responsible for the violence and been right to do so.

To move beyond Jan. 6, 2021, we must put country ahead of party. For Democrats, that means resisting their leadership’s petty habit of aggravating partisan fault lines by indiscriminately condemning all who came to Washington that day.

 

We Republicans have a heavier burden. I’ve been a Republican my entire life, and believe in what the Republican Party, at its best, has represented for decades. There can be no soft-pedaling what happened and no absolution for those who planned, encouraged and aided the attempt to overthrow our democracy. Love of country demands nothing less. That’s true patriotism.

Mr. Rove helped organize the political-action committee American Crossroads and is author of “The Triumph of William McKinley” (Simon & Schuster, 2015).

[C-Man 27316]

40 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Fuck this asshole or anyone who brags on being a "lifelong ....". Your positions should evolve as the world evolves. New shit has come to light.

I was a "lifelong" Republican (extremely moderate) too -- until Dotard. Then I voted for Beto vs Cruz. Now I'm straight-ticket Democrat.

[atomheartbevo 89995]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Ok rove and Cruz now. Is the party testing the waters of a separation from trumpism?  Or are they just taking some nonvulnerable players and running a bit of cover on the anniversary to help keep hesitant Rs from abandoning them?

Yeah, something is going on.  Cruz can be a dumbass, but when he gives a speech on the floor in Congress, his words are chosen very carefully.  Those weren’t off-the-cuff remarks.  Calling them terrorists was a huge thing that’s going to piss off Trump and his base (and already has).  And now Karl puts this out there.   

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19217]

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yeah, something is going on.  Cruz can be a dumbass, but when he gives a speech on the floor in Congress, his words are chosen very carefully.  Those weren’t off-the-cuff remarks.  Calling them terrorists was a huge thing that’s going to piss off Trump and his base (and already has).  And now Karl puts this out there.   

The Navarro shit was pretty damning since he mentioned Cruz most.  I can’t help but think it’s cya, but why?  My birthday is coming up, and since I didn’t win Powerball, a good second gift would be expulsion of traitors from Congress.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Karl Rove, at 71, trying to stay relevant. Plus, like the staunch Bush strategist he is, he likely knows that pure fascism and corrupt oligarchy is bad for corporations in the long run. A little corrupt oligarchy, no problem, but I can't see this guy supporting the extremes--the Tea Party hates him, so what has he got to lose other than to stay somewhat employed...

[hookemATL 11962]

I have firsthand knowledge that Karl Rove dips French fries in Mayo and tips 8% to food service workers. That alone should earn him a spot on the gallows. I realize he is essentially a war criminal as well, but I think it’s important to know how truly evil he is. 
 

fuck this mealymouthed statement. Eat a dick you feckless shit vacuum. 

[Sawbonz 27761]

I get the disdain /scorn and even hatred of Rove. But we have to remember any strong criticism coming from within the traditional Republican machine puts pressure on the would be fence sitters to take sides and increases the likelihood of a schism in the party. 
 

Eta I don’t agree with much of the progressive platform but this is not the time to argue about the intrinsic worth or what to call low wage workers and other bullshit. It’s time to come together to ensure we are able to argue about that stuff and real policy matters in the future 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Sawbonz

[tx ind 7013]

anytime I hear Karl Rove come up all I can think about is this and just laugh

[DDD Dad 14367]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

I have firsthand knowledge that Karl Rove dips French fries in Mayo and tips 8% to food service workers. That alone should earn him a spot on the gallows. I realize he is essentially a war criminal as well, but I think it’s important to know how truly evil he is. 
 

fuck this mealymouthed statement. Eat a dick you feckless shit vacuum. 

That’s oddly specific. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19270]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

I have firsthand knowledge that Karl Rove dips French fries in Mayo and tips 8% to food service workers. That alone should earn him a spot on the gallows.

Hell yeah.  5% max.

[hookemATL 11962]

7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

That’s oddly specific. 

[Macanudo 13047]

8 hours ago, C-Man said:

I was a "lifelong" Republican (extremely moderate) too -- until Dotard. Then I voted for Beto vs Cruz. Now I'm straight-ticket Democrat.

Same here.  

My first election was in 1988.   I voted for Bush.   I am no longer a Republican.

[CooterBrown 18060]

RINO

['stache 21899]

I know the "librul media" trope had been around for a while but this fuckstain took it to 11. Same with wedge issues like gay marriage and abortion. Wasn't he the adviser that led the "John McCain had a Black baby" campaign and the one that shat upon John Kerry's war record? Yeah, fuck your "both sides" bullshit. Plenty of people noted the dangerous path back then and where it might lead and were called alarmist. The crowd he trained refused to accept universal media coverage that no fraud was detected in the election, and a year ago they literally tried to overthrow a legitimate government. There is no truth for these people except what their overlords tell them to believe despite all evidence to the contrary. His role in all of this is enormous. He can fuck himself in his fat fucking ass. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by 'stache

[Gourmand 7774]

15 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Same here.  

My first election was in 1988.   I voted for Bush.   I am no longer a Republican.

Mine too, but my roommate and I were almost certainly the only guys on our floor at the Woo who voted for Dukakis.

I've only voted for one Republican in my lifetime and that was John McCain in the 2000 primary because I knew Dubya was a fraud and was not presidential material. 

[Gourmand 7774]

5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Yeah, fuck your "both sides" bullshit.

this really cannot be said enough.

[AnTiM 1675]

My only guide at this point is not to trust anyone who appears to be totally insane.  Since the huge majority of that group currently appears to be Republicans, I guess you can consider me a Democrat.

[Brisketexan 105546]

Hey turd blossom......TOO FUCKING LATE.  You created this monster.  As it rips our country limb from limb and we watch in horror as the Republic bleeds out and dies, YOU DID THIS.

YOU DID THIS.

YOU DID THIS.

YOU DID THIS.

You don't get to suddenly disclaim your life's work of lies, disinformation, and stoking the flames of irrational hatred.  We've seen your trophy case -- they're all in there.

Fuck off and die, then burn in hell.

[C-Man 27316]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

I get the disdain /scorn and even hatred of Rove. But we have to remember any strong criticism coming from within the traditional Republican machine puts pressure on the would be fence sitters to take sides and increases the likelihood of a schism in the party. 
 

Eta I don’t agree with much of the progressive platform but this is not the time to argue about the intrinsic worth or what to call low wage workers and other bullshit. It’s time to come together to ensure we are able to argue about that stuff and real policy matters in the future 

Nobody who matters will read it -- or give it even a second thought. They've bought their first-class tickets on the Crazy Train. They're going wherever it takes them.

[WhatTheBuck 28825]

10 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

For Democrats, that means resisting their leadership’s petty habit of aggravating partisan fault lines by indiscriminately condemning all who came to Washington that day.

Show me where they’re doing that, Karl. If anyone was just standing on the lawn watching shit go down, no one is condemning them. Maybe you should start by resisting the temptation to both-sides the issue and admit that the Republicans are the problem. They’re the ones stoking the division. And maybe admit that you bear some responsibility for laying the groundwork that made Trump possible. There are a thousand ways the Bush/Cheney administration foreshadowed Trump and you played no insignificant role in that.

You spread the lie that John McCain sired an illegitimate black daughter. Trump spread the lie that Barack Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya in a very Rove-esque way that should’ve made you proud. You stoked the fears of gays getting married during the 2004 reelection campaign, they’re going to weaken the American family and come after our kids. Trump campaigned on the threat of immigrants, they’re bringing crime and drugs and they’re going to take our jobs. And he campaigned on banning all Muslims. A fear of the ‘other’ was central to both of your politicking.

During the course of the 2004 campaign, Ron Suskind wrote about a conversation he had with a senior adviser in the Bush White House. He wrote:

Quote

The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

It was later revealed that you were that aide. You were creating your own alternative facts long before Trump was, arrogantly believing that you could just speak your desired reality into existence. You said it. You know you said it. Admit you said it and admit that you’re part of the problem.

Incidentally, that quote first appeared in an article in the New York Times but I first encountered it in Suskind’s book: The Price of Loyalty - George W. Bush, the White House, and the education of Paul O’Neill. O’Neill’s experience as Treasury Secretary for Bush bears some similarity to the experience of Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State for Trump. Both successful CEOs from the private sector who went to work for intellectually incurious leaders who didn’t know much. O’Neill didn’t refer to Bush as a “fucking moron” like Tillerson did of Trump, but there was some insinuation. Like most things involving Trump, he just took the worst traits of his Republican predecessors and turned them up to 11.

[WhatTheBuck 28825]

1 hour ago, tx ind said:

anytime I hear Karl Rove come up all I can think about is this and just laugh

 

[Brisketexan 105546]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

I get the disdain /scorn and even hatred of Rove. But we have to remember any strong criticism coming from within the traditional Republican machine puts pressure on the would be fence sitters to take sides and increases the likelihood of a schism in the party. 
 

Eta I don’t agree with much of the progressive platform but this is not the time to argue about the intrinsic worth or what to call low wage workers and other bullshit. It’s time to come together to ensure we are able to argue about that stuff and real policy matters in the future 

Nice thoughts.  I'd  like to agree with them, I really would, because it's true -- policy doesn't mean shit right now. There's literally one issue facing this country, and most elections (local or national) are a referendum on that issue: do you want to have a functioning Republic where voters can decide elections, or do you want to hand all power to the Republican Party?

But.....

9 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Nobody who matters will read it -- or give it even a second thought. They've bought their first-class tickets on the Crazy Train. They're going wherever it takes them.

....this.

It's too late.  The time for persuasion has long passed.  The GQP has picked their poison, and they guzzled the entire pitcher of it.  They are all-in on attacking the Republic and ensuring that a mere majority of votes being for the opposition will not stop them from being the party in power.

Diplomacy has failed.  1/6 was Pearl Harbor.  It's time we started acting like it in response.

[Sawbonz 27761]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Nice thoughts.  I'd  like to agree with them, I really would, because it's true -- policy doesn't mean shit right now. There's literally one issue facing this country, and most elections (local or national) are a referendum on that issue: do you want to have a functioning Republic where voters can decide elections, or do you want to hand all power to the Republican Party?

But.....

....this.

It's too late.  The time for persuasion has long passed.  The GQP has picked their poison, and they guzzled the entire pitcher of it.  They are all-in on attacking the Republic and ensuring that a mere majority of votes being for the opposition will not stop them from being the party in power.

Diplomacy has failed.  1/6 was Pearl Harbor.  It's time we started acting like it in response.

Except they are not all in. Cheney, Romney, now Rove and Cruz. Plus all the retired or retiring Congress critters. They may not be doing what you want but they are doing something. Hell McDonnell is definitely not all in

[The Royal We 3072]

I've got no quarter for anyone who excuses/hand waves the events on Jan 6th.  Can't abide it from friends, family, coworkers, clients, etc.  I've gotten into some very heated arguments in places where they probably weren't appropriate, but it was worth it IMO. 

Yes Rove has a hand in creating this monster, yes he's a shit heel, yes he should be derided for eternity, but I still appreciate him saying this.  Same goes for Cruz. 

The fact of the matter is we are in a heap of shit with our democracy and every little nudge that might change a few minds is desperately needed.

Now, go EABOD you fat piece of shit.

[Brisketexan 105546]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Except they are not all in. Cheney, Romney, now Rove and Cruz. Plus all the retired or retiring Congress critters. They may not be doing what you want but they are doing something. Hell McDonnell is definitely not all in

Are they continuing to protect the actual LEADERS of the insurrection from consequences?  Yep.

They're all-in.

Our country was violently attacked by an evil, psychotic, demented, lie-based movement.  That movement has only GROWN since then.  That movement CONTROLS one of our two political parties.

1/6 was Pearl Harbor.  Hoping to convince friendly, rational leadership in Japan to maybe back down off the "total war" thing is utterly fucking pointless after Pearl Harbor.  You defeat insane, militaristic movements by one means, and one means only:

You're a smart man.  You'll come around.  As horrific as this is, and is an outcome that we never, ever, ever, wanted to pursue.....you'll come around.

Facts don't matter.  Evidence doesn't matter.  Rational thought doesn't matter.  They've already TOLD us the rules: force and power are all that matter.  Nothing else will be acknowledged or respected (things like votes, and evidence, and laws -- they don't matter anymore).

This is the playing field now.  We did not choose it.  They did.  But we've been dragged onto it, and told the rules.  Time to play to win.  Take the fight to them.  Every one of them.  Make them suffer.  Make them lose their jobs.  Ruin their businesses and livelihood.  Make them pariahs.  They understand one thing: force and the pain that comes with it.  So, help them reach a higher level of understanding.

Or, you know, you could just try to reason with the guys banzai-charging towards you with fixed bayonets.  See how that works out for you.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Brisketexan

[Sawbonz 27761]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Are they continuing to protect the actual LEADERS of the insurrection from consequences?  Yep.

They're all-in.

Our country was violently attacked by an evil, psychotic, demented, lie-based movement.  That movement has only GROWN since then.  That movement CONTROLS one of our two political parties.

1/6 was Pearl Harbor.  Hoping to convince friendly, rational leadership in Japan to maybe back down off the "total war" thing is utterly fucking pointless after Pearl Harbor.  You defeat insane, militaristic movements by one means, and one means only:

You're a smart man.  You'll come around.  As horrific as this is, and is an outcome that we never, ever, ever, wanted to pursue.....you'll come around.

Facts don't matter.  Evidence doesn't matter.  Rational thought doesn't matter.  They've already TOLD us the rules: force and power are all that matter.  Nothing else will be acknowledged or respected (things like votes, and evidence, and laws -- they don't matter anymore).

This is the playing field now.  We did not choose it.  They did.  But we've been dragged onto it, and told the rules.  Time to play to win.

I guess we will see. 
 

of course you thought trump was going to win in 2020

[YChang 3472]

I wonder how Rove talks about the current state of the GOP in his public policy class he teaches at UT. Especially since he prides himself having all these friends across the aisle that he invites to speak in his classes. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by YChang

[Macanudo 13047]

Cruz isn't "in".    He's playing both ways.   A switch hitter if you will .

[DDD Dad 14367]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I guess we will see. 
 

of course you thought trump was going to win in 2020

But he DID win!

[Brisketexan 105546]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

I guess we will see. 
 

of course you thought trump was going to win in 2020

Incorrect.  I said that he had a very good chance of winning -- I said that all the predictions of a Biden cakewalk were bullshit, and underestimated the fanaticism of Trump supporters (who are mentally identical to the fanatical followers of the militaristic image of the Japanese emperor in WWII).  People around here said the election was a "done deal."  I said it was going to be scary close.  And golly gee, it was.

I also said that we were going to face violent resistance from the cult if Trump indeed lost.

I also said that he was going to win in 2016.

I'm not good at picking horses at the track, but I've read a history book or two, and I've seen what's coming for a long time.  It's all playing out just like it does in the books.  Spoiler: the side that says "surely it can't get that bad, the safeguards will hold" is almost always wrong.

[Sawbonz 27761]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Incorrect.  I said that he had a very good chance of winning -- I said that all the predictions of a Biden cakewalk were bullshit, and underestimated the fanaticism of Trump supporters (who are mentally identical to the fanatical followers of the militaristic image of the Japanese emperor in WWII).  People around here said the election was a "done deal."  I said it was going to be scary close.  And golly gee, it was.

I also said that we were going to face violent resistance from the cult if Trump indeed lost.

I also said that he was going to win in 2016.

I'm not good at picking horses at the track, but I've read a history book or two, and I've seen what's coming for a long time.  It's all playing out just like it does in the books.  Spoiler: the side that says "surely it can't get that bad, the safeguards will hold" is almost always wrong.

You were at least as dire re 2020 as you were for 2016 (which I predicted trump would win as well). Like I said we will see

[Brisketexan 105546]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You were at least as dire re 2020 as you were for 2016 (which I predicted trump would win as well). Like I said we will see

We are definitely going to see.  And no, I was not as dire about the predicted election result in 2020 as I was in 2016 -- but I was MORE dire about the consequences of a Trump win, that's for sure.  Had he won in 2020, it would have been game-over.  The ladder would have been pulled up, and we'd never see a functioning Republic allowing the will of the people to govern ever again.

If Trump is alive to run in 2024, he runs and wins.  I'm making that prediction right now.

He may not get the votes to win, but he will win.  Because a sufficient number of the safeguards (legitimate election officials who will follow their oath and not just declare votes "void," state legislatures that will follow the law, etc.) that held in 2020 have been crippled/removed, or will have been by 2024.

You know that's the gameplan.  They have TOLD US that's the gameplan, we should believe them.

One thing will save this country, and just one: if Trump chokes on a Big Mac before 2024.  No other personality in the MAGA-sphere can inspire the dedication and suicidal fanaticism of the MAGAts like he can.  Others have tried, but they can't come close.  If the cult leader is alive, the cult will burn this country to the ground.  If the cult leader is dead, the GQP will have to find a way to re-invent itself, because they won't be able to fully re-capture the "magic in a bottle" that Trump brings.

You know I'm right.  You don't WANT to know that, but you do.

[WhatTheBuck 28825]

23 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Except they are not all in. Cheney, Romney, now Rove and Cruz. Plus all the retired or retiring Congress critters. They may not be doing what you want but they are doing something. Hell McDonnell is definitely not all in

I wouldn’t trust Cruz. I’d put him in the ‘We had a perfectly good coup planned but the rioters fucked it up!’ camp. He was all in for the coup this time and I assume he will be again the next chance he gets. He didn’t suddenly develop character or grow a spine. 

[RomaVicta 30063]

8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You were at least as dire re 2020 as you were for 2016 (which I predicted trump would win as well). Like I said we will see

If we sit on our hands and watch, we will see the triumph of fascism.

Rove serves this triumph by maintaining the delusion that this is merely partisan politics as it's been forever. It's not. The number of traditional Republicans on this board who have turned on that "political party" is clear evidence of this.

Everything has changed. One side believes in the institutions and ideals of a democratic republic. The other ceasely attacks those very institutions and ideals while claiming they are the true patriots.

This is a paradigm shift not hyperbole. The failure of opinion leaders, news organizations, and those clinging to the traditional notion that this is merely GOP vs Dem to recognize this paradigm shift contribute to the demise of the republic.

The national collective mind wants to believe it will all work out fine in the end. We've got a good life going here, don't interrupt my new car shopping. Besides it's just "partisan bickering." 

There's not much being done to brake this slide we are in. There is no rally point or rallying leader.

Idiot World doesn't like paradigm shifts. The republic may fail, but Idiot World is forever!

[Macanudo 13047]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We are definitely going to see.  And no, I was not as dire about the predicted election result in 2020 as I was in 2016 -- but I was MORE dire about the consequences of a Trump win, that's for sure.  Had he won in 2020, it would have been game-over.  The ladder would have been pulled up, and we'd never see a functioning Republic allowing the will of the people to govern ever again.

If Trump is alive to run in 2024, he runs and wins.  I'm making that prediction right now.

He may not get the votes to win, but he will win.  Because a sufficient number of the safeguards (legitimate election officials who will follow their oath and not just declare votes "void," state legislatures that will follow the law, etc.) that held in 2020 have been crippled/removed, or will have been by 2024.

You know that's the gameplan.  They have TOLD US that's the gameplan, we should believe them.

One thing will save this country, and just one: if Trump chokes on a Big Mac before 2024.  No other personality in the MAGA-sphere can inspire the dedication and suicidal fanaticism of the MAGAts like he can.  Others have tried, but they can't come close.  If the cult leader is alive, the cult will burn this country to the ground.  If the cult leader is dead, the GQP will have to find a way to re-invent itself, because they won't be able to fully re-capture the "magic in a bottle" that Trump brings.

You know I'm right.  You don't WANT to know that, but you do.

There might not be another Trump but what makes you think the Republicans wouldn't just rig the apparatus so their guy (whoever it is) wins anyway?

[Sawbonz 27761]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

If we sit on our hands and watch, we will see the triumph of fascism.

Rove serves this triumph by maintaining the delusion that this is merely partisan politics as it's been forever. It's not. The number of traditional Republicans on this board who have turned on that "political party" is clear evidence of this.

Everything has changed. One side believes in the institutions and ideals of a democratic republic. The other ceasely attacks those very institutions and ideals while claiming they are the true patriots.

 

What are you talking about? Karl Rove, inarguably one of the “other side,” wrote an op Ed condemning the actions of Jan 6 and rightly pointing out that had democrats tried something similar bin 2016 the republicans would be apoplectic. That is a good thing. A very good thing. Cruz is calling them terrorists. Cheney is on the select committee

 

But hey if you want a war get a gun and go shoot a trumpkin. Why sit on your hands any longer?

[RomaVicta 30063]

There's also something darkly funny that the republic is being overthrown by a shady ingrate who is really mainly in it for the easy buck. I doubt he thought he'd really win in 2016 or even get the nomination. It was a brand campaign.

Now he finds himself as the biggest threat to the country since Fort Sumter and piling up hundreds of millions of dollars. He's conning people to donate to save America and buy second rate memorabilia while publicly destroying the country these people live in.

It's a black comedy farce. 

I was what was once an American citizen. Now I only have this glass I got bought.

[henrygandorf 29199]

so in this bizarro universe, did the dems also threaten to attack and hang high-ranking members of their own party?  because that’s a cleaner analogy for me. 

[Brisketexan 105546]

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

There might not be another Trump but what makes you think the Republicans wouldn't just rig the apparatus so their guy (whoever it is) wins anyway?

Because there's enough of a sliver of memory of the way things SHOULD work that there has to be a WHIFF of credibility to the declaration that "Republican guy really won!"  If he loses a state by a million votes instead of 10,000, they can't pull that off.  And I think Trump is the only guy who inspires that level of fierce loyalty.

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

What are you talking about? Karl Rove, inarguably one of the “other side,” wrote an op Ed condemning the actions of Jan 6 and rightly pointing out that had democrats tried something similar bin 2016 the republicans would be apoplectic. That is a good thing. A very good thing. Cruz is calling them terrorists. Cheney is on the select committee

 

But hey if you want a war get a gun and go shoot a trumpkin. Why sit on your hands any longer?

Nope, I didn't say we should resort to shooting trumpkins (we'd be naive to think it can't ever come to that - for fuck's sake they violently attacked our government, violence was ALREADY on the table - but we're not there).  I'm suggesting we use brutal, relentless, and legal means to hurt them.  Destroy their names.  Wreck their businesses.  Cast them out of all reasonable society.  Treason has a price.  You don't get to be both a traitor to the Republic AND live a comfortable, happy, easy life.

We're seeing first-hand how it works.  The heroic patriots who followed Godking Trump's orders on 1/6?  The majority of them become blubbering pussies when they appear at their sentencing hearing, realizing they are losing it all.  Suffering real consequences.  I say bring them MORE consequences, and bring them to all who would support them and another insurrection.  They will not listen to reason.  But they can't help but hear the prison cell slamming shut behind them.  They can't help but see their livelihood evaporate.

[Sawbonz 27761]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Because there's enough of a sliver of memory of the way things SHOULD work that there has to be a WHIFF of credibility to the declaration that "Republican guy really won!"  If he loses a state by a million votes instead of 10,000, they can't pull that off.  And I think Trump is the only guy who inspires that level of fierce loyalty.

Nope, I didn't say we should resort to shooting trumpkins (we'd be naive to think it can't ever come to that - for fuck's sake they violently attacked our government, violence was ALREADY on the table - but we're not there).  I'm suggesting we use brutal, relentless, and legal means to hurt them.  Destroy their names.  Wreck their businesses.  Cast them out of all reasonable society.  Treason has a price.  You don't get to be both a traitor to the Republic AND live a comfortable, happy, easy life.

We're seeing first-hand how it works.  The heroic patriots who followed Godking Trump's orders on 1/6?  The majority of them become blubbering pussies when they appear at their sentencing hearing, realizing they are losing it all.  Suffering real consequences.  I say bring them MORE consequences, and bring them to all who would support them and another insurrection.  They will not listen to reason.  But they can't help but hear the prison cell slamming shut behind them.  They can't help but see their livelihood evaporate.

Maybe use courtrooms and not mushroom clouds to illustrate your points then

[Brisketexan 105546]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Maybe use courtrooms and not mushroom clouds to illustrate your points then

Fair enough.

But you've never seen me litigate.....especially after a lunch break at the Chili Parlor.

[RomaVicta 30063]

10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That is a good thing. A very good thing. Cruz is calling them terrorists. Cheney is on the select committee

[Sawbonz 27761]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said: