Black Monday NFL 2022 thread

[Don Johnson 4,754]

2 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m sure he thought about the ramifications, and while I may be wrong, I think he acted very impulsively. Why?  He would’ve been offered NO or Houston or a HC next year. But he was in the running for jobs RIGHT NOW and he had a ready-made 58-page petition?  He’s been plotting this ever since he was fired by Miami, and probably before, and surely hasn’t been emotionally stable since then. 

Agree.  I find it damn near impossible that he wouldn't have gotten another HC job.  

[closetohumping 17,450]

1 minute ago, Gourmand said:

That's kind of the point. They are arguing that guys like Teryl Austin and Eric Bienemy are not being afforded the same opportunities as their white counterparts despite years of experience in the league, and then those that do get a chance (Culley, Wilks, Caldwell) are not afforded the same leash to prove themselves as white coaches and they have the data to back it up.

 

But Romeo has gotten three different jobs and has a .333% winning percentage?  What is Hue's winning percentage?  The Oakland Raiders coach is getting replaced and he took over a mess and lead them to the playoffs?  We'd be somewhat pissed if he were AA right?  As I mentioned, Doug Pedersen won a super bowl and he's unemployed.  Idk about Caldwell, I think he should get another shot but he's 67, not sure if he wants another shot.

 

All that being said, I do think it's a travesty that there's currently 1 black HC.  Yes that's a problem.  But are the Giants, Broncos and Dolphins racist?  Hard to prove.  And I'd be very careful pointing out John Elway seemed hungover in a meeting. 

[The Dog 44,065]

IIRC Flores' contract with the Dolphins is 100% guaranteed (Jimbo-style). 

So he's set for life thanks to them and could take this risk.

[closetohumping 17,450]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Agree.  I find it damn near impossible that he wouldn't have gotten another HC job.  

 

7 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m sure he thought about the ramifications, and while I may be wrong, I think he acted very impulsively. Why?  He would’ve been offered NO or Houston or a HC next year. But he was in the running for jobs RIGHT NOW and he had a ready-made 58-page petition?  He’s been plotting this ever since he was fired by Miami, and probably before, and surely hasn’t been emotionally stable since then. 

I think Brian, like McDaniels, Weiss, and other BB guys is kind of hard to work with.  Yeah, someone likely takes a chance but it could be a personality thing

 

[Beau Vine 54,256]

35 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

And I don't see Coughlin as a shit hire.  Teryl Austin?  Steve Wilks, Studesville?  Are they hot commodities?

And I had no idea "Ben McAdoo" was a white guy...doesn't seem possible.  Perhaps the Giants assumed he was black?

[Auto Driller 2,506]

For Flores sake, I hope he has some evidence other than the texts from Bill. 

[closetohumping 17,450]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

And I had no idea "Ben McAdoo" was a white guy...doesn't seem possible.  Perhaps the Giants assumed he was black?

What?  You need to look up Bob McAdoo.  He was a great white NBA player.

[Brew 3,049]

35 minutes ago, Duane Moore said:

So teams that hire a minority coach get an extra first round pick that year? Or $10 million in extra salary cap room?

No, expand the structure in place with more smaller scale incentives. Everything doesn’t have to be directed at the head coach. Provide opportunities for success and inclusion, incentivize the results that are deemed progress, etc. and push the change at the lower levels.

There are a number of ways to skin a cat. Find something that works and achieves some semblance of progress. The couple of you arguing that he was going to get one of these last jobs have no basis to make that argument. NO has locked in from what it sounds like, Houston was going a different direction, etc. He had a reason for making the move now and we’ll see how it works out.

[A-Tex Devil 2,451]

37 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I remember him saying he was considering med school at some point?  Bright guy

Yeah, would anyone be a bit more critical of Romeo if he were a honkey, I mean white?  That wouldn't be an example I would bring up.  Also if everyone thinks Eric B is the best prospect in the market, why hasn't he been hired?  Is it racial?  Idk.

I'll make it easy for you.  Yes.  Particularly how they lord Andy Reid over what Bienemy's accomplished.  He should have definitely been hired before now.  

[Bevo14 8,337]

16 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

He was probably going to get a HC job this year. If not he would have been able to get a DC job whenever he wanted. 

Shit. I'll take him if Sark fucks up this year.

[A-Tex Devil 2,451]

22 minutes ago, The Dog said:

IIRC Flores' contract with the Dolphins is 100% guaranteed (Jimbo-style). 

So he's set for life thanks to them and could take this risk.

I "guarantee" the guarantee was conditioned on him signing a release that he likely never signed so that he could file the suit without counterclaim.  He's 40 so he has 21 days to review any release document before he signs it and 7 days to rescind after signing it under federal law.    

[Incredulity 11,675]

29 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Dude, yes. Whoever authored it should be flayed. 

I'm not a lawyer.  

Just read it and it is all over the place.  Whoever wrote it is not a fan of brevity.  

 

Does it matter?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I'm not a lawyer.  

Just read it and it is all over the place.  Whoever wrote it is not a fan of brevity.  

 

Does it matter?

Establishing guilt shouldn’t be anything other than brief. 

[Bevo14 8,337]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

 

[Poe It Up 126]

I kinda feel bad for Bill here, it’s tough being an old. My grandfather types his name at the bottom of text messages, so this hits close to home. 

[Gourmand 7,774]

 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, The Dog said:

IIRC Flores' contract with the Dolphins is 100% guaranteed (Jimbo-style). 

So he's set for life thanks to them and could take this risk.   retirement.

Good point.

[Beau Vine 54,256]

26 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I'm not a lawyer.  

Just read it and it is all over the place.  Whoever wrote it is not a fan of brevity.  

 

Does it matter?

Have you ever met a lawyer?  "not a fan of brevity"?  Lulz.   Do you know Brisket?  TwiceHorn?

[closetohumping 17,450]

Cross posting:

 

[Incredulity 11,675]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Have you ever met a lawyer?  "not a fan of brevity"?  Lulz.   Do you know Brisket?  TwiceHorn?

point taken.

I guess, I have been fortunate that the only lawsuits I have been involved with the complaints were less than 10 pages off the top of my head.

[closetohumping 17,450]

32 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I kinda feel bad for Bill here, it’s tough being an old. My grandfather types his name at the bottom of text messages, so this hits close to home. 

I have older friends on Facebook like in their 60s.   They don’t know how to send messages so they’ll post I. The persons wall and say “hope you’re getting. This”

 

also have an older uncle posting inappropriate video of him watching porn on Facebook. 

[closetohumping 17,450]

57 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I'll make it easy for you.  Yes.  Particularly how they lord Andy Reid over what Bienemy's accomplished.  He should have definitely been hired before now.  

Apparently doesn’t interview well.  No excuse as I think he should be an hc

[Dutchrudder 11,141]

I don't see how Flores wins this lawsuit, but I do want to point out that his 9-8 record was not impressive when you look at the teams they beat. The Patriots were the only good team, and they got throttled in the first round. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,446]

34 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I don't see how Flores wins this lawsuit, but I do want to point out that his 9-8 record was not impressive when you look at the teams they beat. The Patriots were the only good team, and they got throttled in the first round. 

1st time the Dolphins have had back to back winning seasons since 2003. More than likely Flores was only hired in the first place to lose as evidenced by the owner asking him to do just that. Much like David Culley, Flores was hired to bridge the organization to the next guy while the Dolphins gathered top tier draft assets before they hired their real coach. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[Beau Vine 54,256]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

also have an older uncle posting inappropriate video of him watching porn on Facebook. 

So...he knows how to post videos to Facebook!

[closetohumping 17,450]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

So...he knows how to post videos to Facebook!

[hornbri 1,400]

3 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

They do that.  In maybe even a better way.  By rewarding the team that develops the minority coach.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2020/11/10/nfl-minority-coach-general-manager-hiring-proposal-approved/6234064002/

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/49ers-development-robert-saleh-nets-two-third-round-draft-picks

I get what they are trying to do here, the intent to reward the developing team with a draft pick. 

But that doesn’t that actually deter any other team from hiring them? If they do they are creating a competitive advantage for another team (the extra draft pick). Seems like it would limit the actual hiring. 

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

3 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

It wouldn’t to me but I don’t hear that term used to describe smart blacks. Conversely I hear articulate all the time whereas it is not applied to whites. It’s like the person that says that to compliment a black guy expects all of them to speak like the jive talkers from Airplane! or Allen Iverson. 

Spoiler

Yep. Our president famously said that about the president before last. #nocr

 

[dcar00 14,274]

Ha. Hue Jackson is now hinting the Browns paid him to tank.  who's next to jump on board? Vance Joseph?    maybe Urban floats something out there.

to be clear, Hue Jackson + the Browns means you don't have to pay extra money to lose a lot of games, it will happen organically.

[Zepol87 9,188]

The black folks on my leadership team are Princeton, Stanford, Texas, and Michigan grads. The white dudes are aggy and Arky. Damn I never really thought about that 

4 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

It already happens.

I had no idea about that. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Zepol87

[Texzilla58 4,738]

Every team that hires a white HC is going to be easily accused of passing over specific black coaches due to the Rooney Rule.  Every team that has a white HC is not racist.
Also, some of those guys listed are awful (as are the guys who were actually hired).  Some were not even coordinators.

His lawyer is saying because the Giants interviewed Romeo Crenel who then failed in Cleveland and Houston, they should have hired Flores. If the Giants had hired Frazier what would he say? This reads like a whiny 4th grader that didn’t get their way. Hiring Bob McAdoo isn’t a proof of racism. Stupidity yes. Racism no. The GM who fired Flores is black.

Flores had one black coordinator. If the path to hc is OC/dc where’s the love Flores?

[Gourmand 7,774]

Lotta fragile white guys up in here who can't just admit the obvious. 

[dcar00 14,274]

4 hours ago, Gourmand said:

 

Marvin Lewis, the black Jeff Fisher, weighing in is hilarious.

Tomlin, Dungy, Lovie, and Caldwell weighing in is great.  you know guys who have actually done something.

[Beau Vine 54,256]

58 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Lotta fragile white guys up in here who can't just admit the obvious. 

This has actually been one of the better discussions on this site in a long time.  I completely expected someone like Longhornlove to show up and Cloak Room it like the Aaron Rodgers thread.  

[TonyTexas 10,517]

51 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Marvin Lewis, the black Jeff Fisher, weighing in is hilarious.

Tomlin, Dungy, Lovie, and Caldwell weighing in is great.  you know guys who have actually done something.

It’s wrong for a black man with 16 years as an NFL head coach and another 6 as a coordinator to weigh in but it’s ok for dcar00 to flap his gums. 

[dcar00 14,274]

10 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

It’s wrong for a black man with 16 years as an NFL head coach and another 6 as a coordinator to weigh in but it’s ok for dcar00 to flap his gums. 

The NFL head coach hiring practices apparently didn't affect him at all and allowed him to be Jeff Fisher for 16 years.  so yes it's hilarious he is weighing in.

[dcar00 14,274]

there are 7 teams that have not hired a minority head coach

Cowboys, Giants, Ravens, Jags, Seahawks, Rams, Patriots, Titans.

Maybe the commissioner should just tell those teams the next head coach they hire has to be a minority.  that will help.

[Texzilla58 4,738]

Cowboys had Garrett, a ginger, so that qualifies, and Dave Campo, a total idiot. Give them some credit.

What minority head coach did the Saints employ?

[dcar00 14,274]

29 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Cowboys had Garrett, a ginger, so that qualifies, and Dave Campo, a total idiot. Give them some credit.

What minority head coach did the Saints employ?

yeah forgot Saints also.  Ravens, Jags, Seahawks are post merger.  Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Rams, Pats, Titans have no excuses.  especially the Giants and Saints.  they've had tons of opportunities.

Campo was a dwarf so yeah he could count as protected class.  Ginger probably has some Irish in him and everyone hates the Irish.

[Captain Obvious 520]

13 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yeah forgot Saints also.  Ravens, Jags, Seahawks are post merger.  Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Rams, Pats, Titans have no excuses.  especially the Giants and Saints.  they've had tons of opportunities.

Campo was a dwarf so yeah he could count as protected class.  Ginger probably has some Irish in him and everyone hates the Irish.

Giants say not so fast my friend.  Does a female director of coaching operations cancel out sham interviews?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33204636

Edited February 3, 2022 by Captain Obvious

[dcar00 14,274]

6 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

1st time the Dolphins have had back to back winning seasons since 2003. More than likely Flores was only hired in the first place to lose as evidenced by the owner asking him to do just that. Much like David Culley, Flores was hired to bridge the organization to the next guy while the Dolphins gathered top tier draft assets before they hired their real coach. 

I could see this.  but man just hire Hue Jackson(or maybe the dude Arizona hired before Kliffy) if that is the goal.

Why hire a guy who wants to prove himself and then ask him to tank? 

Can the NFL force him to sell?

[Texzilla58 4,738]

Let’s look at the remaining five openings and would a great coordinator in a good spot take these jobs knowing they will likey be fired in three or four years?

Jax: no one wants to work for Megadouche Trent Baalke. It’s a problem Shad needs to fix.

Saints: $71m over cap, no QB, and serious problem contracts.

Texans: chernoble level dumpster fire. Watson. Creepy Jack. Owner in diapers.

Dolphins: Guantanamo looks nicer right now. Ross has screwed the pooch.

[Texzilla58 4,738]

Let’s look at the remaining five openings and would a great coordinator in a good spot take these jobs knowing they will likey be fired in three or four years?

Jax: no one wants to work for Megadouche Trent Baalke. It’s a problem Shad needs to fix.

Saints: $71m over cap, no QB, and serious problem contracts.

Texans: chernoble level dumpster fire. Watson. Creepy Jack. Owner in diapers.

Dolphins: Guantanamo looks nicer right now. Ross has screwed the pooch.

[Texzilla58 4,738]

Let’s look at the remaining five openings and would a great coordinator in a good spot take these jobs knowing they will likey be fired in three or four years?

Jax: no one wants to work for Megadouche Trent Baalke. It’s a problem Shad needs to fix.

Saints: $71m over cap, no QB, and serious problem contracts.

Texans: chernoble level dumpster fire. Watson. Creepy Jack. Owner in diapers.

Dolphins: Guantanamo looks nicer right now. Ross has screwed the pooch.

Vikes: best of the lit. Cousins.

[Texzilla58 4,738]

Let’s look at the remaining five openings and would a great coordinator in a good spot take these jobs knowing they will likey be fired in three or four years?

Jax: no one wants to work for Megadouche Trent Baalke. It’s a problem Shad needs to fix.

Saints: $71m over cap, no QB, and serious problem contracts.

Texans: chernoble level dumpster fire. Watson. Creepy Jack. Owner in diapers.

Dolphins: Guantanamo looks nicer right now. Ross has screwed the pooch.

Vikes: best of the lit. Cousins.

[Hawndoh 2,386]

The 2am quad post. Impressive.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

Does anyone not believe that most Rooney Rule interviews are sham interviews? I recall when it was openly discussed they were fake but that it gave minority candidates the chance to learn how to prep for interviews. Quotes like that were openly said by NFL execs and GMs. The upcoming coach sometimes had to wait a few days or longer to be announced until the Rooney interviews were documented.

you have a sports league that is 70% AA and has been a high percentage for decades but only 1 AA coach, at the moment? With a small market of available jobs I don’t think anyone expects a perfectly aligned percentage at all times but 70% vs. 3%?

I know us white guys don’t like to admit it but this is the textbook case of systematic racism even when I doubt any owner is an overt racist. (I would expect a white guy to respond that systematic racism doesn’t exist.)

Edited February 3, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[closetohumping 17,450]

So a few more thoughts.  Do I think Daboll was going to get the job?  Yes.  I’ve seen this happen outside of the nfl as well.  Teams and companies are just covering their bases and maybe 1 out of 100 times someone’s interview is so good that they hire another candidate, see Mack Brown. 
 

Do I think the Rooney rule is a sham. Yes.  Was listening to Manny Acho and he brought up some names like Duce Staley and Ray Sherman, black position coaches interviewed who would never get the job.  Of course I think Flores and some of the younger coaches now were just position coaches.  I want to say maybe Zac Taylor was just a position coach?

 

I get why Flores is pissed and I get why he wants to bring attention to it but he also better have tangible proof.   He wasn’t the only other coach interviewed A couple of white coaches were used as well.  
 

in my career, I’ve absolutely taken a job interview where I knew my chances were slim.  Great practice and networking.

 

Listening to LaVar Arrington on the radio he said none of this matters unless this hurts the owners financial well being.  Are fans ready to not buy tickets?  Are black GMs and players willing to go on strike?   Can any of them or us, let’s be real, find a job as lucrative as being a player, coach or gm?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

I’ll be interested to see what the NFL does with the Dolphins’ owner rewarding coaches to lose at times. Let’s face it, fans also want their teams to lose. Haven’t we either said or heard that a team needs to lose to get the #1 pick. Owners think this way too.

and who is going to complain if a team tanks? Other teams in their division? The only time people get pissed is when a tanking team hurts your teams playoff chances. If you’re the Patriots, do you care if the dolphins give you 2 easy Ws?

I noticed that the dolphins owner said Flores’ overall accusation was false but he didn’t specifically say the tanking bonus wasn’t real. Regardless the NFL can’t have an owner incentivizing losing. My guess is that a future unreleased report clears the dolphins but the nfl creates a rule outlawing these bonuses. 

[Dnaguy 12,002]

Should we look at the remaining five openings?