Black Monday NFL 2022 thread

[Js1 85416]

So 1.5 black head coaches next year?  
 

[Dutchrudder 11141]

4 hours ago, dcar00 said:

they've only averaged 5-6 minority head coaches a year over the last 10 years.  they need 20+ to match the 70% of players who are black in a 32 team league so that everything is fair.  how is that going to happen without mandating the hiring of black/minority HC's?

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

How about you start by counting the number of coaches with actual NFL playing time experience? Then tally up the number over the last 10 years to get an idea of how often players become Head Coaches?  Then take that percentage of Head Coaches and figure out how it compares to player ethnicity to make a fair analysis of the data and predictions of what hiring practices should be. 

[dcar00 14270]

11 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

How about you start by counting the number of coaches with actual NFL playing time experience? Then tally up the number over the last 10 years to get an idea of how often players become Head Coaches?  Then take that percentage of Head Coaches and figure out how it compares to player ethnicity to make a fair analysis of the data and predictions of what hiring practices should be. 

that's not what ESPN says.  70% players needs to equal 70% coaches.  5-6 average a year is not enough. even if you double it its barely 33%.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, dcar00 said:

they've only averaged 5-6 minority head coaches a year over the last 10 years.  they need 20+ to match the 70% of players who are black in a 32 team league so that everything is fair.  how is that going to happen without mandating the hiring of black/minority HC's?

Oh. You’re serious huh?  Why is there a need to match the percentage of players?  I don’t get that at all. There are a number of white men who realize they have no shot at playing and study coaching from an early age in their college playing days or right after graduating. I know that. I’d like to see a percentage of young white men versus black men who embark on that career right from the jump. Maybe as many black men do too, but I doubt it’s 70%. Maybe I’m wrong there. 

Look, nepotism and good ole boyism is certainly in play and needs to be addressed. But the minute you start mandating shit is the minute you lose a part of your audience. Particularly mandating Bienemy in particular as you suggest. If your hypothetical were to start being put into action by Goddell, if I’m an owner, I’d sell my team. Let me do what I want within my team (within the rules) but do not dictate to me what I must do with 1 of the 2 most important managers of my organization. It won’t work. 

Again, if this is sarcasm, bravo, because it drew me offsides. 

[dcar00 14270]

1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

Oh. You’re serious huh?  Why is there a need to match the percentage of players?  I don’t get that at all. There are a number of white men who realize they have no shot at playing and study coaching from an early age in their college playing days or right after graduating. I know that. I’d like to see a percentage of young white men versus black men who embark on that career right from the jump. Maybe as many black men do too, but I doubt it’s 70%. Maybe I’m wrong there. 

Look, nepotism and good ole boyism is certainly in play and needs to be addressed. But the minute you start mandating shit is the minute you lose a part of your audience. Particularly mandating Bienemy in particular as you suggest. If your hypothetical were to start being put into action by Goddell, if I’m an owner, I’d sell my team. Let me do what I want within my team (within the rules) but do not dictate to me what I must do with 1 of the 2 most important managers of my organization. It won’t work. 

Again, if this is sarcasm, bravo, because it drew me offsides. 

well 5-6 isnt good enough and goodell is bringing in a consultant to fix the problem it is so bad.

ha. none of these guys are gonna sell their team.  it's a money making operation on auto pilot now.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

4 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

But the minute you start mandating shit is the minute you lose a part of your audience.

You mean that a bunch of older, white men are going stop watching NFL football when they have to relinquish a few NFL head coaching jobs? How ever will they survive?

But I don't disagree. There's a certain segment of the population that cry the loudest when the pendulum swings one millimeter away from them.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

well 5-6 isnt good enough and goodell is bringing in a consultant to fix the problem it is so bad.

ha. none of these guys are gonna sell their team.  it's a money making operation on auto pilot now.

If goddell intimates he’s going down the road of the worst case of affirmative action in history, and my team has leapt in market value, absolutely there will be sellers. 

[Guest]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You mean that a bunch of older, white men are going stop watching NFL football when they have to relinquish a few NFL head coaching jobs? How ever will they survive?

But I don't disagree. There's a certain segment of the population that cry the loudest when the pendulum swings one millimeter away from them.

I won’t stop watching at all. I’m thinking of the Kaepernick saga, which I viewed as noise largely on the part of my bitching demographic. I knew it’d ruin his career just like Flores. But it will alienate people. 

You can’t mandate who owners hire; it’s a really really stupid idea. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

There's mandates and there's mandates. The NFL owners can look at each other and agree that they need to do a better job with hiring minority coaches. And forget 70%, how about we start with 25%.

[dcar00 14270]

4 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I won’t stop watching at all. I’m thinking of the Kaepernick saga, which I viewed as noise largely on the part of my bitching demographic. I knew it’d ruin his career just like Flores. But it will alienate people. 

You can’t mandate who owners hire; it’s a really really stupid idea. 

well that's the only way it gets fixed because you have racist owners and 5-6 minority/black coaches on average a year isn't enough.  maybe if they do get pissed off, as you suggest, and sell, Goodell can fix it so the next owner is minority.  That would fix the problem albeit slowly.  

in fact, I'd vote to start with the Cowboys, Jerry the racist might sell which would be a godsend for Cowboys fans.

I have no idea what you mean by "my bitching demographic."

[Had Enough 2083]

You're comparing apples and oranges here.
How about you start by counting the number of coaches with actual NFL playing time experience? Then tally up the number over the last 10 years to get an idea of how often players become Head Coaches?  Then take that percentage of Head Coaches and figure out how it compares to player ethnicity to make a fair analysis of the data and predictions of what hiring practices should be. 

Coaches do not come only from guys with NFL experience. So your coaching pool is coaches, men and women, with those aspirations. What does that composition look like? No women players. How many Asian players? How many Hispanics?

Point being is that the numbers will never fit in all capacities. It’d be an interesting discussion on why the current composition of race of NFL players does not track the general population of eligible football participants. If you get too far into that, it might crush the feeling that we’re all equal.

[dcar00 14270]

10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There's mandates and there's mandates. The NFL owners can look at each other and agree that they need to do a better job with hiring minority coaches. And forget 70%, how about we start with 25%.

OK so mandate 8.  that's been the high water mark over the last 10 years.

If you are the owner that is one of the 8 you can't fire a coach until another team is ready to fire a coach.  then one of you has to agree to hire a minority coach.

Edit: Goodell can use his 3rd party to mediate who has to hire the minority coach if the 2 teams can't agree.

Edited February 7, 2022 by dcar00

[closetohumping 17449]

So are we pissed or elated about the McDaniel hire?   What’s the strongest element to Flores’s case now?   Romeo crennel got hosed or elway reeked of coors light?

[Captain Obvious 519]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

So are we pissed or elated about the McDaniel hire?   What’s the strongest element to Flores’s case now?   Romeo crennel got hosed or elway reeked of coors light?

The Broncos thing looks flimsy at best unless he's got video somewhere of Elway showing up drunk and fumbling through the whole thing.  Everything he claimed about the interview is purely opinion at this poimt, and Denver hired Vance Joseph as the previous head coach.  Could Elway and ownership still be conducting sham interviews with minorities?  Sure.  But convincing a jury of that beyond reasonable doubt when they literally just had a black head coach is not going to happen based on what Flores has presented thus far.

[closetohumping 17449]

1 minute ago, Captain Obvious said:

The Broncos thing looks flimsy at best unless he's got video somewhere of Elway showing up drunk and fumbling through the whole thing.  Everything he claimed about the interview is purely opinion at this poimt, and Denver hired Vance Joseph as the previous head coach.  Could Elway and ownership still be conducting sham interviews with minorities?  Sure.  But convincing a jury of that beyond reasonable doubt when they literally just had a black head coach is not going to happen based on what Flores has presented thus far.

Dyk Vance is related to our Terry Joseph?  “John elway looked disheveled and hungover?”  Even if true, and you better have tangible proof, does that mean they’re racist?  They made a pretty unconventional hire in giving a 65 year old guy his first job and they fired him after two years.  Also stuck with Vance even when the personal misconduct stuff popped up. You sure you want to go this path?  Could go back to the giants passing on Romeo crennel for coughlin angle.   I think the Miami thing died when they hired McDaniel imo

[Michael Knight 12988]

 

[Texzilla58 4738]

well that's the only way it gets fixed because you have racist owners and 5-6 minority/black coaches on average a year isn't enough.  maybe if they do get pissed off, as you suggest, and sell, Goodell can fix it so the next owner is minority.  That would fix the problem albeit slowly.  
in fact, I'd vote to start with the Cowboys, Jerry the racist might sell which would be a godsend for Cowboys fans.
I have no idea what you mean by "my bitching demographic."

You toss around the term racist like dimes. You have zero evidence jerry Jones is a racist. His black players love him because he treats them as men. His ranking executive is black and loves the team and the man, and has nixed numerous opportunities to leave for a GM position. He is paying his black QB $200 fucking million dollars…surely a man so racist he hasn’t hired a black HC wouldn’t entrust a black man to have the most visible position in all of sports.

The NFL has more efforts to make but your bleatings are just asinine.

[dcar00 14270]

5 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

You toss around the term racist like dimes. You have zero evidence jerry Jones is a racist. His black players love him because he treats them as men. His ranking executive is black and loves the team and the man, and has nixed numerous opportunities to leave for a GM position. He is paying his black QB $200 fucking million dollars…surely a man so racist he hasn’t hired a black HC wouldn’t entrust a black man to have the most visible position in all of sports.

The NFL has more efforts to make but your bleatings are just asinine.

there are black QB's all over the NFL. No one cares if their players are black/white/purple as long as they win.  oh and no one cares about the GM or VP of player personnel.  It's all about the race of the head coach.

He's had multiple chances to hire a black HC and he won't do it.  

what efforts does the NFL need to make?  they have the rooney rule and they've had 5-6 black/minority coaches per year on average over the last 10 years.  what else can they do?

[Dutchrudder 11141]

 

Whatever cops caught him ought to try out for Linebacker for the Falcons.

[Js1 85416]

Jerry Jones can’t be racist bc he pays a black QB millions of dollars. 
 

Was that said trying to score a point??

Edited February 7, 2022 by Js1

[Dutchrudder 11141]

Coaches do not come only from guys with NFL experience. So your coaching pool is coaches, men and women, with those aspirations. What does that composition look like? No women players. How many Asian players? How many Hispanics?

Point being is that the numbers will never fit in all capacities. It’d be an interesting discussion on why the current composition of race of NFL players does not track the general population of eligible football participants. If you get too far into that, it might crush the feeling that we’re all equal.

The post I was referencing, and the general argument that keeps coming up, is that if 70% of NFL players are black, why aren't black coaches near that percentage?

It's an ignorant premise without doing analysis on what experience coaches generally have prior to being hired. If 100% of coaches have NFL playing experience, then sure, we can look at that as a trend, but it's nowhere near that high. A lot of them work their way up ranks as assistants before ever getting a coordinator or head coach job. Very few that did play in the NFL were even drafted or played more than 4 seasons. It's simply not where most coaches come from, so it's an invalid comparison meant to stir up controversy and distract from actual issues with hiring practices.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, dcar00 said:

well that's the only way it gets fixed because you have racist owners and 5-6 minority/black coaches on average a year isn't enough.  maybe if they do get pissed off, as you suggest, and sell, Goodell can fix it so the next owner is minority.  That would fix the problem albeit slowly.  

in fact, I'd vote to start with the Cowboys, Jerry the racist might sell which would be a godsend for Cowboys fans.

I have no idea what you mean by "my bitching demographic."

It means my demo - middle aged white men - were bitching. Your post is nonsense. You want a commissioner to mandate a sale to a minority?  Very fascist of you.

[wild_turkey 3167]

they need 20+ to match the 70% of players who are black in a 32 team league so that everything is fair.  how is that going to happen without mandating the hiring of black/minority HC's?

By your logic, maybe we should ask ourselves why 70% of NFL players are black. That isn’t really fair if black people are only 12% of the U.S. population. By that logic, one might conclude there have been unfair hiring practices at the level of the NFL draft.

Perhaps the next NFL draft should be mandated to be 59% white, 19% Hispanic and Latino, 12% black, 6% Asian, and then make up the remainder with Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. To keep it fair and all.


Disclaimer: I don’t really believe what I just posted, but I’m simply pointing out that mandating hiring practices to match a specific racial demographic that is already significantly different from the general population seems absurd.

[Had Enough 2083]

It's an ignorant premise without doing analysis on what experience coaches generally have prior to being hired. If 100% of coaches have NFL playing experience, then sure, we can look at that as a trend, but it's nowhere near that high. A lot of them work their way up ranks as assistants before ever getting a coordinator or head coach job. Very few that did play in the NFL were even drafted or played more than 4 seasons. It's simply not where most coaches come from, so it's an invalid comparison meant to stir up controversy and distract from actual issues with hiring practices.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just taking it down a different rabbit hole.

Coaching hiring decisions are made by a small number of persons with advice from likely a small numbers of persons just like tons of other, albeit less publicly viewed, closely held, private entities. Many of those go with who they know or based on the advice of those in their inner circle. And often that is family and friends. I’m not sure that is inherently wrong. That does not mean it is the correct decision for on field success however.

[Sgt Hulk 13786]

This thread is going exactly the way I expected a surly thread to go 

[USNALonghorn 5078]

10 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

 

Maybe the NFL can plaster the following quotes all over their stadiums next year: “Don’t batter people in a night club”, “don’t drive drunk and kill a person (and her dog)”, or “stop beating women”.

[Don Johnson 4754]

Over/under on the inevitable player or talking head claiming that McDaniel isn't really black and setting off a whole different debate on how society treats those who are mixed race?

[closetohumping 17449]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Over/under on the inevitable player or talking head claiming that McDaniel isn't really black and setting off a whole different debate on how society treats those who are mixed race?

Already heard it on the radio and already in print as I dropped the Deadspin article about 50 posts ago. Tangent, but didn't they tell Eugene Chung he was the wrong kind of minority? 

[Texzilla58 4738]

Already heard it on the radio and already in print as I dropped the Deadspin article about 50 posts ago. Tangent, but didn't they tell Eugene Chung he was the wrong kind of minority? 

You’ll likely seeStephen A Smith calling McDaniel ofay today. Ridiculous.

[closetohumping 17449]

1 minute ago, Texzilla58 said:

You’ll likely seeStephen A Smith calling McDaniel ofay today. Ridiculous.

I hope that happens and hope that somebody has the guts to call him on it.  Unlikely I know.  A few on the radio thought he was white, at least a few days ago.  I think some have figured it out now. 

 

Also McDaniel may be young, but he's been coaching in the NFL since 2005.  Oh wait, that means he's been held back because he's black.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

26 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

Maybe the NFL can plaster the following quotes all over their stadiums next year: “Don’t batter people in a night club”, “don’t drive drunk and kill a person (and her dog)”, or “stop beating women”.

Or, in the immortal words of Fletcher Reede, "Stop breaking the law, asshole".

[Blotto 23559]

Countdown to the next "controversy" over how black is McDaniel. Stupid? Sure, but its 2022 and everything these days starts with the premise of stupidity. 

[closetohumping 17449]

27 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Countdown to the next "controversy" over how black is McDaniel. Stupid? Sure, but its 2022 and everything these days starts with the premise of stupidity. 

 

Two weeks ago he was some white guy who pretended to like Mike Jones so that he can appear cool and relate to black players.

[Poe It Up 126]

15 hours ago, Js1 said:

So 1.5 black head coaches next year?  
 

Over. The Texans are basically being forced to hire Lovie Smith. 

[Sgt Hulk 13786]

Frankly I feel the flat out ignoring of Asian females in coaching positions and females in general has me appalled. This good ole boys club and toxic male patriarchy needs to die 

[closetohumping 17449]

15 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Over. The Texans are basically being forced to hire Lovie Smith. 

I'd prefer Leftwich but I'm not sure how badly he wants to bring his guy from Arizona in?  Could Bienemy get the NO gig?

[Poe It Up 126]

15 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I'd prefer Leftwich but I'm not sure how badly he wants to bring his guy from Arizona in?  Could Bienemy get the NO gig?

I’d prefer Leftwich over a 63 year old retread. Then again, I think the Texan’s hands were tied on this one. 

[closetohumping 17449]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

I’d prefer Leftwich over a 63 year old retread. Then again, I think the Texan’s hands were tied on this one. 

Why can’t they just get leftwich or bienemy?  Why lovie?

[Poe It Up 126]

6 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Why can’t they just get leftwich or bienemy?  Why lovie?

Shortened timeline. They had pretty much hired McCown until the league had them fall on their sword due to the lawsuit. 

[n64ra 1086]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:50 PM, Schulz2.0 said:

His grandmother on his dad's side is black.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/why-49ers-oc-mike-mcdaniel-sees-football-more-just-sport

So he's a quarter black? Does the Rooney Rule state what percent minority one must be to satisfy the rule?

[South Austin 52519]

4 minutes ago, n64ra said:

So he's a quarter black? Does the Rooney Rule state what percent minority one must be to satisfy the rule?

Well, to tell the family secret, his grandmother was Dutch.

[Blotto 23559]

14 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Shortened timeline. They had pretty much hired McCown until the league had them fall on their sword due to the lawsuit. 

Not sure I buy that. Why is it faster to hire Smith than Bienemy or Leftwich? Because the other two are also being considered by other teams? Lovie will still be there in a week if that's the case and you feel that either leftwich or bienemy would be the better hire. It looks like Bienemy interviewed with the Texans last year, so if they wanted to hire him, they could have done that last year.

 

[Poe It Up 126]

8 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Not sure I buy that. Why is it faster to hire Smith than Bienemy or Leftwich? Because the other two are also being considered by other teams? Lovie will still be there in a week if that's the case and you feel that either leftwich or bienemy would be the better hire. It looks like Bienemy interviewed with the Texans last year, so if they wanted to hire him, they could have done that last year.

 

Because he’s in the building already. 

[Don Johnson 4754]

31 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Shortened timeline. They had pretty much hired McCown until the league had them fall on their sword due to the lawsuit. 

Also, I'd rather just hire Leftwich today without an interview than Lovie.

[closetohumping 17449]

9 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Because he’s in the building already. 

Eh.   Shouldn’t take that long nor should it be this complicated. 

[Don Johnson 4754]

Josiah has been on fire through all this.

 

[closetohumping 17449]

9 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Because he’s in the building already. 

Eh.   Shouldn’t take that long nor should it be this complicated. 

[Bateshorn 9928]

3 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

Maybe the NFL can plaster the following quotes all over their stadiums next year: “Don’t batter people in a night club”, “don’t drive drunk and kill a person (and her dog)”, or “stop beating women”.

Well, if Roger Goodell wants to force the Saints to hire Flores, Kamara just handed him all the leverage he will need. 

[Pam Cummings 9645]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

Not sure I buy that. Why is it faster to hire Smith than Bienemy or Leftwich? Because the other two are also being considered by other teams? Lovie will still be there in a week if that's the case and you feel that either leftwich or bienemy would be the better hire. It looks like Bienemy interviewed with the Texans last year, so if they wanted to hire him, they could have done that last year.

 

Would Leftwich or Bienemy even want the job? They are gonna force mccown on you and fire you as soon as they can. It's a situation where they'd basically be sabotaged.

[Don Johnson 4754]

13 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Well, if Roger Goodell wants to force the Saints to hire Flores, Kamara just handed him all the leverage he will need. 

The next coach for the Saints is going to fail and get fired.  Need to hire someone who won't sue them when that happens.