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Ignatius

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4146

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On 1/14/2022 at 1:41 PM, Tex Pete said:

So is their coaching staff. Good luck with that. 

Bob Davie and Notre Dame completely wasted that guy's insane talent. As Mack would have done with Griffin, who would have been a terrible defensive player. His affinity for contact ranks up there with Deion Sanders'. 

 

If his ability as a cover corner had ranked up there with Deion he would be a Longhorn Legend. Deion didn’t like to tackle, but he didn’t need to.

 

He’s annoying as hell, but you can’t deny he’s in the top 3 corners in coverage you ever saw in your life, and that’s before you factor in how great he was as a kick returner….

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Doc Reeves

Doc Reeves 6434

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3 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

If his ability as a cover corner had ranked up there with Deion he would be a Longhorn Legend. Deion didn’t like to tackle, but he didn’t need to.

 

He’s annoying as hell, but you can’t deny he’s in the top 3 corners in coverage you ever saw in your life, and that’s before you factor in how great he was as a kick returner….


I remember the 35Mill contract and that damn stuffed crust commercial. 

he was fucking electric. May have been better if he was more disciplined, may not. But damn, he was nails at key moments when it mattered most.

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21489

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5 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

If his ability as a cover corner had ranked up there with Deion he would be a Longhorn Legend. Deion didn’t like to tackle, but he didn’t need to.

 

He’s annoying as hell, but you can’t deny he’s in the top 3 corners in coverage you ever saw in your life, and that’s before you factor in how great he was as a kick returner….

I have no issue with Deion. Was just noting that Robert Griffin hated and avoided (was scared of) contact probably more than any starting football player I have ever seen.

He wore arm pads and shin guards to HS practice as the starting QB who didn’t even get hit. I seriously doubt he would have been a good defensive player at any position. He was good at playing safety in Prevent coverage. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 65455

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17 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

If his ability as a cover corner had ranked up there with Deion he would be a Longhorn Legend. Deion didn’t like to tackle, but he didn’t need to.

 

He’s annoying as hell, but you can’t deny he’s in the top 3 corners in coverage you ever saw in your life, and that’s before you factor in how great he was as a kick returner….

I’m trying to follow this and got a little confused, so apologies in advance. 

Is the premise that Deion is a “top 3” cover corner and that’s potentially in dispute? If so, uh, wow. I know “top 3” is normally high cotton and all, but there isn’t a “top 3” for cover corners. There’s Deion Sanders and then a large gap and then a new top 3. Deion Sanders as a new prospect coming into this draft would look exactly like the Deion Sanders entering the 1988-ish draft when he came out. Should be #1, but he’s a corner, so top 8 will do. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 65455

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2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, Sanders is the undisputed #1 cover corner since the rules changed to where you couldn't murder someone as a defensive back. Night Train Lane might have a claim if you could do that again.

My dad has been a diehard baseball fan from babyhood and therefore so are me and my brothers. It leads to hearing some great stories. One is that of Garry Maddox. Ralph Kiner used to call Phillies games and said: “two thirds of the earth is covered by water, and Garry Maddox covers the rest. “ I watched him as a young boy and have always compared OFs to him the terms of being able to track a ball. Only Kevin Keirmaier comes close.  

Anyway, I was a 10-ish year old boy watching an FSU game with my dad. Sanders is just shutting the other team down and then they throw one in his half of the field. He picks it and takes it to the house. My pops drops that quote and it made perfect sense. People can say what they want about Prime Time, but he was basically the best ever at his position in real time for the viewer and both the viewer and he knew it. It was Must See TV. 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34690

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1 minute ago, SarkAfterDark said:

A large gap between Deion, Charles Woodson, Rod Woodson, Revis, and Darrell Green? 

 

Vine Ok GIF

No, not a large gap. A huge gap. The two Woodsons aren't even close. Revis thought he was close but was only the best cover guy in the league for a few short years while Sanders was the undisputed best for a decade. Darrell Green at least belongs in the conversation unlike the other three, but it's a short conversation.

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1751

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Bizarre takes. I have to wonder how much NFL football some of you watched. Everson Walls and Mel Blount probably belong in this conversation as well. Not saying Deion shouldn't be on the mountain top, but I don't see a large or huge gap between him and everyone else. But this isn't the thread to go in depth about that. So agree to disagree, just on the absurdity honestly, this is the only time time I've heard such opinions when it comes to NFL CB play and rankings.

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cafe society

cafe society 2903

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14 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Bizarre takes. I have to wonder how much NFL football some of you watched. Everson Walls and Mel Blount probably belong in this conversation as well. Not saying Deion shouldn't be on the mountain top, but I don't see a large or huge gap between him and everyone else. But this isn't the thread to go in depth about that. So agree to disagree, just on the absurdity honestly, this is the only time time I've heard such opinions when it comes to NFL CB play and rankings.

Blount was physical and grabby and was allowed to play that way, Sanders was never allowed to take those kind of liberties.  When the rules regarding defensive backs grabbing and physically harassing receivers all over the field was changed, it was known as the Mel Blount Rule.  And Everson Walls, for all his INTs, was an empty suit if ever there was one.  Darrell Green, Willie Wood and Herb Adderly are in the next tier, but as others have stated above, Neion Deion is in a sphere all his own.

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1751

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Imagine having a career that consisted of 71 interceptions, 12 returned for TDs(1st all time) forcing 23 fumbles, 32 fumble recoveries(1st all time), 14 sacks, and winning a DPOY award all from the CB/S and being arguable the most complete CB in NFL history and being told you aren't in the same stratosphere as Deion Sanders. Some of you have no idea who Rod Woodson was and likely never saw him play. If you don't have this man in the conversation then there is no point in us debating. 

Edited by SarkAfterDark
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Fico

Fico 1806

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Imagine having a career that consisted of 71 interceptions, 12 returned for TDs(1st all time) forcing 23 fumbles, 32 fumble recoveries(1st all time), 14 sacks, and winning a DPOY award all from the CB/S and being arguable the most complete CB in NFL history and being told you aren't in the same stratosphere as Deion Sanders. Some of you have no idea who Rod Woodson was and likely never saw him play. If you don't have this man in the conversation then there is no point in us debating. 

There isn’t a sane person in the world that would pick Rod Woodson over Deion as a corner. Not one.

Rod was a great player, and a hall of fame player, and one of the best safeties of all time.  As a corner back, he isn’t in Deion’s league. Nobody is.

Edited by Fico
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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1751

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1 minute ago, Fico said:

There isn’t a sane person in the world that would pick Rod Woodson over Deion as a corner. Not one.

Rod was a great player, and a hall of fame player, and one of the best safeties of all time.  As a corner back, he isn’t in Deions league. 

Nowhere have I mentioned picking Rod Woodson over Deion. He also only played safety at the tail end of his career, he was a much better CB. Like I said y'all don't know who Rod Woodson is. 

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lilMAC25

lilMAC25 4003

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15 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Imagine having a career that consisted of 71 interceptions, 12 returned for TDs(1st all time) forcing 23 fumbles, 32 fumble recoveries(1st all time), 14 sacks, and winning a DPOY award all from the CB/S and being arguable the most complete CB in NFL history and being told you aren't in the same stratosphere as Deion Sanders. Some of you have no idea who Rod Woodson was and likely never saw him play. If you don't have this man in the conversation then there is no point in us debating. 

People threw at Rod Woodson. There were entire games were no one threw at Deion.

 

 

Woodson was awesome, he was no PrimeTime.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34690

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3 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Nowhere have I mentioned picking Rod Woodson over Deion. He also only played safety at the tail end of his career, he was a much better CB. Like I said y'all don't know who Rod Woodson is. 

Everyone here knows who Rod Woodson is. The discussion was best cover corner ever and Woodson wasn't in the same league as Sanders as a cover corner. He did everything else much better than Sanders but that's not what we were discussing.

One play to win, the opponent has to throw. You can pick one player ever to put on their best WR. Nobody alive would pick Rod Woodson for that play over Deion Sanders. Not even Rod Woodson's mom.

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1751

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Everyone here knows who Rod Woodson is. The discussion was best cover corner ever and Woodson wasn't in the same league as Sanders as a cover corner. He did everything else much better than Sanders but that's not what we were discussing.

One play to win, the opponent has to throw. You can pick one player ever to put on their best WR. Nobody alive would pick Rod Woodson for that play over Deion Sanders. Not even Rod Woodson's mom.

Title of thread says best cb ever. 🙂

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Smax

Smax 3800

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1 hour ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Imagine having a career that consisted of 71 interceptions, 12 returned for TDs(1st all time) forcing 23 fumbles, 32 fumble recoveries(1st all time), 14 sacks, and winning a DPOY award all from the CB/S and being arguable the most complete CB in NFL history and being told you aren't in the same stratosphere as Deion Sanders. Some of you have no idea who Rod Woodson was and likely never saw him play. If you don't have this man in the conversation then there is no point in us debating. 

 

 

Stupid take they were in the league at the sametime, if you saw Deion play you saw Rod play

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34690

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Green was great, nothing homer about it. But Green could be thrown on much more than Sanders in their primes. 

Despite being small he was a much more complete cornerback, though. No doubt about that. Twice as many career tackles as Sanders, although that also has to do with the guy he was covering catching more passes. 

Sanders won an NFL defensive player of the year despite being worthless in run support. He was the superior cover guy and it's not actually that close. 

It's also silly to think it's being a Dallas homer. He played for Dallas but it's not like Cowboy fans think of him as a Cowboy. If he has a team it's the Falcons but he was just a mercenary. 

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1751

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Really think Revis is underrated as a pure cover guy. He did it in during the  passing era and against superior athletes than his predecessors that have been mentioned in this thread. Guys like Deion, Rod, and Green were retiring when guys like Moss, Megatron etc.. started entering the league. I don't doubt Revis would have been as good as those guys in their era. Same for Charles Woodson.

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Gaffords

Gaffords 778

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3 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

When dallas signed Deion that was one of the greatest memories I had. You couldn’t over throw Deion he would bait you looking like he was beat then the 6th gear engaged and your picked off 

This right here.  I've never seen anyone else sandbag like PT.  He would get "beat" by three yards and wait for the ball to be in the air before closing the gap (often enough) for a pick 6...  There were plenty of veteran QBs who would not throw the deep ball to the side Sanders was covering no matter how "beat" the WR had the coverage. 

Hell, teams would prefer to punt the ball out of bounds 30 yards or so than to hang one up deep for PT to get his hands on.  And this is NFL QBs, Wars, and punters, not college, we are talking about.  

He did hate contact, but when it came down to it being him or a TD, he would make the tackle,  or the block at that time.

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Gaffords

Gaffords 778

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1 hour ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Really think Revis is underrated as a pure cover guy. He did it in during the  passing era and against superior athletes than his predecessors that have been mentioned in this thread. Guys like Deion, Rod, and Green were retiring when guys like Moss, Megatron etc.. started entering the league. I don't doubt Revis would have been as good as those guys in their era. Same for Charles Woodson.

Deion shut down some of the greatest WRs to ever play the game.  If you've ever seen him sandbagging down the sideline and intercept the ball thrown to another reciever down the middle who has his double coverage beat, you would understand.  

No other defender in the history of the NFL shut down half the field in the passing game like he did.  QBs would take the extra second to be sure Sanders wasn't anywhere near that side of the field.  That in itself led to vets getting sacked once or twice extra per game, and newer QBs getting obliterated the entire game by the defensive line.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 39074

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It's interesting that Cowboy fans are like, "Even though Deion only did one thing, cover, he was so great at it that he's the greatest corner ever" and Cowboy fans are also like, "Barry can't be the greatest running back ever because he wasn't a complete running back like Emmitt."

Which is it?  Does being able to do everything possible at a position matter or not?

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This Cowboy fan didn't vote for Deion, and alot of it's rooted in exactly what you point out.

That being said, you don't hear Barry fans admitting his shortcomings either.

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21489

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Cover corner. Not just corner.

In my post quoted in the OP, I was alluding to the fact that Deion didn’t like to tackle because he didn’t like the contact. It was comical. But as a cover corner, he was the best. Darrell Green was great, but he wasn’t Deion. 

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4563

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I didn’t realize that Mel Blount’s grandson posted here. 
 

The Revis posts are kinda LOL. All these other guys were shutdown guys for a decade or longer. Revis and “Revis Island” was a think for about 2.5 seasons then he fell back into the pack. Who remembers when Nnamdi Asomugha was regarded as the baddest DB in forever and the he signed with the “dream team” Eagles and disappeared. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4630

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6 hours ago, TexArcher said:

It's interesting that Cowboy fans are like, "Even though Deion only did one thing, cover, he was so great at it that he's the greatest corner ever" and Cowboy fans are also like, "Barry can't be the greatest running back ever because he wasn't a complete running back like Emmitt."

Which is it?  Does being able to do everything possible at a position matter or not?

What’s more interesting is I reread the thread and can’t find anyone claiming that.

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4563

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7 hours ago, TexArcher said:

It's interesting that Cowboy fans are like, "Even though Deion only did one thing, cover, he was so great at it that he's the greatest corner ever" and Cowboy fans are also like, "Barry can't be the greatest running back ever because he wasn't a complete running back like Emmitt."

Which is it?  Does being able to do everything possible at a position matter or not?

Can’t we all just point and laugh at Green Bay taking Tony Mandarich in a top 5 that also included Aikman, Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas?

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34690

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8 hours ago, TexArcher said:

It's interesting that Cowboy fans are like, "Even though Deion only did one thing, cover, he was so great at it that he's the greatest corner ever" and Cowboy fans are also like, "Barry can't be the greatest running back ever because he wasn't a complete running back like Emmitt."

Which is it?  Does being able to do everything possible at a position matter or not?

The discussion was about cover corners, dipshit. 

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