Dallas Cowboys 2022 Offseason Thread -- Every Time Jerrah Talks, an Angel Sheds Their Wings

[C-Man 27057]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Matthew Stafford has always been a good qb, but played for a putrid organization. Lo and behold, he starts for a good organization with good coaching, and he’s in the super bowl. Don’t let anyone convince you Dak is the problem, or Romo before him. It’s the stink the Jones family has infected the organization with post Jimmy. As long as Jerry is interfering and hiring puppets for coaches nobody can lead this organization to that success. It’s so infuriating watching these teams succeed and seeing everything they do right which our dumbshit owner refuses to even consider. The fucking Cincinnati Bengals have found something that works, and it’s more than Burrow being a damn good qb. It’s institutional. It took them years to figure it out, but they did. We will keep doing the same stupid shit Jerry wants to stroke his own ego. Fuck Jerry and every person he has spawned.

Who is the poster who has consistently shit on Matt Stafford for years on this board? Was it Vic or Derka? Guess he wasn't just a "stats" dude who would always choke. Dude is in the Super Bowl after a couple of uber-clutch performances against the Bucs and Niners.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

Matthew Stafford has always been a good qb, but played for a putrid organization. Lo and behold, he starts for a good organization with good coaching, and he’s in the super bowl. Don’t let anyone convince you Dak is the problem, or Romo before him. It’s the stink the Jones family has infected the organization with post Jimmy. As long as Jerry is interfering and hiring puppets for coaches nobody can lead this organization to that success. It’s so infuriating watching these teams succeed and seeing everything they do right which our dumbshit owner refuses to even consider. The fucking Cincinnati Bengals have found something that works, and it’s more than Burrow being a damn good qb. It’s institutional. It took them years to figure it out, but they did. We will keep doing the same stupid shit Jerry wants to stroke his own ego. Fuck Jerry and every person he has spawned.

Stafford runs circles around Dak and Romo. But, your point about the organization is a good one. Stafford is proving he’s a top 5 QB (and has been for some time). Dak would never get there even if with the Rams, Bengals, Chiefs or Bills. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Who is the poster who has consistently shit on Matt Stafford for years on this board? Was it Vic or Derka? Guess he wasn't just a "stats" dude who would always choke. Dude is in the Super Bowl after a couple of uber-clutch performances against the Bucs and Niners.

Vic and Drew. I’ve been arguing with them for years in that Stafford is underrrated and massively so by them. And Dak is overrated and massively so by them. They honestly believe Stafford is merely a middling guy like Jimmy G - barely Top 15, and Dak is a Top 5 guy. 

['stache 21774]

13 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Stafford runs circles around Dak and Romo. But, your point about the organization is a good one. Stafford is proving he’s a top 5 QB (and has been for some time). Dak would never get there even if with the Rams, Bengals, Chiefs or Bills. 

Lol, okay. Not sure why I even bother trying to converse here. Valid arguments about who is better, but "runs circles around" is patently absurd.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Thought it was the best Cowboys defense in 10 or so years and it still left a lot to be desired. Missing a DT that eat up space and dominate. 

Every really good team seems to have a Cooper Kupp, Davante Adams, Deebo, Jamal Adams, Tyreek Hill type where there's almost no defense for them. You can know what the game plan is I they will still rack up yards. Lamb and Amari Cooper disappear in too many games. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Who is the poster who has consistently shit on Matt Stafford for years on this board? Was it Vic or Derka? Guess he wasn't just a "stats" dude who would always choke. Dude is in the Super Bowl after a couple of uber-clutch performances against the Bucs and Niners.

It was both Vic and to a lesser extent drew, but it was always one of the dumbest takes either one of them ever vocalized. Anyone with a brain knew that the lions were to blame, and not Stafford. So it’s fitting that in literally the first year he’s not with that franchise, he’s in the Super Bowl. He’s dipped at times this year, but when healthy the dude has always been a top tier qb. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Lol, okay. Not sure why I even bother trying to converse here. Valid arguments about who is better, but "runs circles around" is patently absurd.

Runs. Circles. I do appreciate how you think there is a “valid argument” to be made about who is better. That’s significantly better than people who gratuitously claim Dak is better than Stafford and attempt to belittle anyone who rightfully laughs at them. But you’re still way off. There is no valid argument for Dak any more. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

27 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Runs. Circles. I do appreciate how you think there is a “valid argument” to be made about who is better. That’s significantly better than people who gratuitously claim Dak is better than Stafford and attempt to belittle anyone who rightfully laughs at them. But you’re still way off. There is no valid argument for Dak any more. 

The valid argument would be what would Dak do under Mcvay and Stafford under Moore. But I still think Stafford is significantly better as a passer and maybe even more athletic moving around and navigating the pocket than Dak is. I still think Dak can be better than what he showed over the 2nd half of the season (In part because we’ve seen it). But I also think Stafford is the better player and the only thing Dak has on Stafford is health history and age. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

8 hours ago, 'stache said:

Matthew Stafford has always been a good qb, but played for a putrid organization. Lo and behold, he starts for a good organization with good coaching, and he’s in the super bowl. Don’t let anyone convince you Dak is the problem, or Romo before him. It’s the stink the Jones family has infected the organization with post Jimmy. As long as Jerry is interfering and hiring puppets for coaches nobody can lead this organization to that success. It’s so infuriating watching these teams succeed and seeing everything they do right which our dumbshit owner refuses to even consider. The fucking Cincinnati Bengals have found something that works, and it’s more than Burrow being a damn good qb. It’s institutional. It took them years to figure it out, but they did. We will keep doing the same stupid shit Jerry wants to stroke his own ego. Fuck Jerry and every person he has spawned.

Tap the breaks on the Bengals and Mike Brown suddenly becoming a good owner. They infamously didn't even have a scouting department when Marvin Lewis 1st got there. Any success that organization has is in spite of their owner not because they suddenly became a good and well run organization. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

4 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

Stafford runs circles around Dak and Romo. But, your point about the organization is a good one. Stafford is proving he’s a top 5 QB (and has been for some time). Dak would never get there even if with the Rams, Bengals, Chiefs or Bills. 

Stafford literally threw a punt for what shouldv'e have been fair caught for a sure INT last night. Calm down. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Biggest mistakes in the current era were Zeke over Jalen Ramsey in the draft and Taco the bum over TJ Watt. 

[Texzilla58 4717]

Stafford runs circles around Dak and Romo. But, your point about the organization is a good one. Stafford is proving he’s a top 5 QB (and has been for some time). Dak would never get there even if with the Rams, Bengals, Chiefs or Bills. 

Stafford cost the rams a couple of games looking like Garopolo. He has a knack for the badly timed int. He threw a sure one last night that was dropped at the end of the game that could have been disastrous.

Dak was on an mvp pace until the end of the Pats game. I don’t think he recovered from it. His mechanics changed immediately. Moore started calling a different game. And Nussmeier didn’t help him.

Dak can be a championship QB but he needs a running game and a solid middle of the line. Biadecz and The two Connors were horrific. I don’t care if you’re Rodgers, Brady, Staubach or Bradshaw you can handle outside pressure; none can handle it up the middle.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

25 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Stafford literally threw a punt for what shouldv'e have been fair caught for a sure INT last night. Calm down. 

That was a bad play. By and large, Stafford played really well in that game. Especially on 3rd down, when they needed him the most. We can pretend like Cooper Kupp has always been this guy, but he wasn’t this guy until Stafford got there. He’s always been really fucking accurate and he’s never been afraid to sling it and trust his arm. That’s always been his gift and his curse (along with injuries) but he has more arm talent than most qbs in the league, including Dak. That isn’t even debatable. He’s even more athletic. 
 

This doesn’t have to be a Stafford vs Dak debate because I think Dak is good enough to win with and he’s better than mediocre. He’s a top 10 qb. But Stafford is better. Always has been….

When healthy, of course. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by youdunnf'dup

[Guest]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The valid argument would be what would Dak do under Mcvay and Stafford under Moore. But I still think Stafford is significantly better as a passer and maybe even more athletic moving around and navigating the pocket than Dak is. I still think Dak can be better than what he showed over the 2nd half of the season (In part because we’ve seen it). But I also think Stafford is the better player and the only thing Dak has on Stafford is health history and age. 

Dak would look like Goff and Stafford would look like he does now. Stafford hasn’t changed. His game has gotten better over the years and his stats were gaudier than most Detroit years because of McVay, Kupp and Beckham. There is no valid argument that Dak is in Stafford’s class. He never was. 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Stafford cost the rams a couple of games looking like Garopolo. He has a knack for the badly timed int. He threw a sure one last night that was dropped at the end of the game that could have been disastrous.

Dak was on an mvp pace until the end of the Pats game. I don’t think he recovered from it. His mechanics changed immediately. Moore started calling a different game. And Nussmeier didn’t help him.

Dak can be a championship QB but he needs a running game and a solid middle of the line. Biadecz and The two Connors were horrific. I don’t care if you’re Rodgers, Brady, Staubach or Bradshaw you can handle outside pressure; none can handle it up the middle.

Dak was on an MVP pace in the minds of delusional Cowboys fans after he feasted on terrible competition. Too bad they don’t hand out MVPs after 6 games. 

[DougO 5239]

Stafford has had a history of sudden WTF throws and decisions at times. And he still pulls those from time to time. It's a lot different when you play for shitty teams and coaches for so much of your career, you almost have to force things or try to put the team on your back attempting something super-human, because nobody else is going to do it for you, and your defense probably won't give you more chances. It's amazing that Stafford has held up as well as he has, when many in his shoes would have been ruined by his early career. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

47 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

That was a bad play. By and large, Stafford played really well in that game. Especially on 3rd down, when they needed him the most. We can pretend like Cooper Kupp has always been this guy, but he wasn’t this guy until Stafford got there. He’s always been really fucking accurate and he’s never been afraid to sling it and trust his arm. That’s always been his gift and his curse (along with injuries) but he has more arm talent than most qbs in the league, including Dak. That isn’t even debatable. He’s even more athletic. 
 

This doesn’t have to be a Stafford vs Dak debate because I think Dak is good enough to win with and he’s better than mediocre. He’s a top 10 qb. But Stafford is better. Always has been 

No doubt Cupp has had an amazing year, but his career has been injury plagued up until this point. Still though, he had like 1100 yards in only 14 games a couple years ago so he's been on the brink of breaking out for awhile.

And as far as Stafford goes, he's always been an elite talent and there's no denying that. He was the #1 pick for a reason. And Dak's arm made him a conditional 4th round pick, again for a reason. That being said I realize that over his 6 year career all of Dak's stats were accumulated in garbage time while Stafford's were amassed in a career full of nothing but clutch play, but Stafford's accuracy has netted him a career mark of (63%) on 7.3 yards/attempt which is 3+ percentage points below that of Dak's career mark (66.6%) on 7.6 yards/attempt. Now I realize that one can still reasonably come to conclusion that Stafford is better than Dak, but given that their career marks are well within range of each other (although Dak comes in ahead of him in many if not most of the categories) it's a bit ridiculous to claim that anyone who disagrees with this assertion has their head in the sand or that Stafford's being better "isn't even debatable". 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

20 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

No doubt Cupp has had an amazing year, but his career has been injury plagued up until this point. Still though, he had like 1100 yards in only 14 games a couple years ago so he's been on the brink of breaking out for awhile.

And as far as Stafford goes, he's always been an elite talent and there's no denying that. He was the #1 pick for a reason. And Dak's arm made him a conditional 4th round pick, again for a reason. That being said I realize that over his 6 year career all of Dak's stats were accumulated in garbage time while Stafford's were amassed in a career full of nothing but clutch play, but Stafford's accuracy has netted him a career mark of (63%) on 7.3 yards/attempt which is 3+ percentage points below that of Dak's career mark (66.6%) on 7.6 yards/attempt. Now I realize that one can still reasonably come to conclusion that Stafford is better than Dak, but given that their career marks are well within range of each other (although Dak comes in ahead of him in many if not most of the categories) it's a bit ridiculous to claim that anyone who disagrees with this assertion has their head in the sand or that Stafford's being better "isn't even debatable". 

I was saying their talent level isn’t debatable, which it isn’t (as you said). I think you’re looking too much into completion percentage when it comes to accuracy. Stafford is a lot more accurate than Dak. To me, that isn’t debatable. Dak has come a long way with his accuracy, but he’s not Stafford in that regard. 
 

As for Kupp, of course he was on the verge of breaking out. But there’s breaking out, and putting up the best single season that any wr has ever put up. Stafford elevating Kupp’s game has been the difference this year. At least in my opinion. Dak doesn’t do that. I’m not saying he can’t, but in my opinion he hasn’t. That might be on Kellen/Linehan as much as anything since Dak doesn’t have mcvay, but I think there’s a noticeable gap in their play. The thing I always held in high regard for Dak was his borderline irrational confidence, and his leadership qualities, but I feel like even that dipped this year with the blaming the refs bullshit that this team did all year. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by youdunnf'dup

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

You're right, I really can't argue accuracy when the literal football metric for accuracy doesn't even factor into the argument. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Seems as though the only throws that qualify as indication of poor accuracy are balls thrown behind receivers on crossing routes or balls thrown too far inside on curls. A ball bombed out of bounds on a fly route or thrown too deep on a post don't seem to fall under the same designation. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

16 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You're right, I really can't argue accuracy when the literal football metric for accuracy doesn't even factor into the argument. 

Sounds like you came to your senses. Because by that metric, Dak would be more accurate than Troy aikman. And we all know that isn’t true. At least I think? Do you think Dak is more accurate than Aikman? That’s not how you measure accuracy.  

Edited February 1, 2022 by youdunnf'dup

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Did you guys see the 49ers safety drop Staffords lame duck pass?

Jimmy G was terrible, Rams were loaded and it still took a 49ers defensive back dropping an easy pick.

[Hate 20103]

39 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Seems as though the only throws that qualify as indication of poor accuracy are balls thrown behind receivers on crossing routes or balls thrown too far inside on curls. A ball bombed out of bounds on a fly route or thrown too deep on a post don't seem to fall under the same designation. 

He too often turns big plays into nice gains by throwing behind receivers.  Jimmy G has the same problem. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

When I think of 2022 Stafford it's Nick Foles or Joe Flacco type vibes.

Stafford is meh but the guys around him should carry him to a championship.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

24 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

When I think of 2022 Stafford it's Nick Foles or Joe Flacco type vibes.

Stafford is meh but the guys around him should carry him to a championship.

Yeah 4700 yards, 40 tds, and a random career year/greatest wr season of all time. But he’s Nick foles/Flacco. Jesus fucking Christ. Some of you just won’t ever give him credit. He made a bad throw in that game that should’ve been intercepted. By and large, he was really fucking good yesterday against a tough defense in the nfc championship lol. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by youdunnf'dup

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

I think Burrow is way better than Stafford. Teams matter though. And the Rams are loaded. Would be a joke if they don't win.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Sounds like you came to your senses. Because by that metric, Dak would be more accurate than Troy aikman. And we all know that isn’t true. At least I think? Do you think Dak is more accurate than Aikman? That’s not how you measure accuracy.  

Ha. Dak isn’t accurate. He’s been taken care of by his OCs. They scheme around his deficiencies.  Lulz at the accuracy comparisons between Dak and Stafford. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

I think Burrow is way better than Stafford. Teams matter though. And the Rams are loaded. Would be a joke if they don't win.

You should stop posting on the matter. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

You are betting on the Bengals? Good luck.

Aaron Donald, Ramsey, and Von Miller, and Cooper Kupp should give Stafford his first ring.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

You are betting on the Bengals? Good luck.

Aaron Donald, Ramsey, and Von Miller, and Cooper Kupp should give Stafford his first ring.

Your Stafford takes are beyond ridiculous. I don’t even read the rest of your content. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Good luck on your Bengals bet.

I'll take the Rams defense and Kupp.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

21 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

I think Burrow is way better than Stafford. Teams matter though. And the Rams are loaded. Would be a joke if they don't win.

I think their weapons are pretty comparable, actually. Burrow’s ceiling is definitely higher than Stafford’s. I don’t agree that he’s way better but I also don’t think that’s a crazy take. Both guys had midseason dips. The bengals had a few really bad loses this year where burrow didn’t play well at all. But burrow has best player in the league multiple MVPs type of ceiling if he actually hits his ceiling. Not saying that’ll happen, but he has that kind of potential.

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

I don’t really know what this Super Bowl QB argument is doing in the Cowboys thread. However:
 

I will say that the Rams beat Tom Brady twice. Joe Burrow is great, but he’s not Tom Brady

[boilerhorn 1335]

4 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Biggest mistakes in the current era were Zeke over Jalen Ramsey in the draft and Taco the bum over TJ Watt. 

Hard to disagree with those, but that does include the luxury of hindsight.

Mayock's pre-draft rankings had Watt at 35 and Charlton at 49.
https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mayock-s-2017-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings-0ap3000000802568

PFF had Watt at 41 and Charlton at28
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-final-pff-draft-board-top-250-prospects-of-2017

Sporting News had Watt at 68 and Charlton at 32.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2017-big-board-top-100-players-prospects-mock/2tcp8ji48gg11lqoicxk25kdb

Watt was not ranked above 32 in any pre-draft review I can find.  No one projected Watt as a DPOY-level prospect.

Zeke over Ramsey was a bad choice.  Mayock had Ramsey at 2.  ESPN had him at 3.  BR's Miller: 1.  SBNation: 3.  PFF: 3.  It may have existed, but I could not find a site that claimed Zeke > Ramsey.  Rule of thumb is that you always take the shutdown corner over a just about anything, esp. an RB.  Selecting Ramsey in Round 1 would have availed Dallas the possibility of grabbing Henry in the 2nd round.  Can you imagine a draft of Ramsey, Henry, and Dak?

[Texzilla58 4717]

No doubt Cupp has had an amazing year, but his career has been injury plagued up until this point. Still though, he had like 1100 yards in only 14 games a couple years ago so he's been on the brink of breaking out for awhile.
And as far as Stafford goes, he's always been an elite talent and there's no denying that. He was the #1 pick for a reason. And Dak's arm made him a conditional 4th round pick, again for a reason. That being said I realize that over his 6 year career all of Dak's stats were accumulated in garbage time while Stafford's were amassed in a career full of nothing but clutch play, but Stafford's accuracy has netted him a career mark of (63%) on 7.3 yards/attempt which is 3+ percentage points below that of Dak's career mark (66.6%) on 7.6 yards/attempt. Now I realize that one can still reasonably come to conclusion that Stafford is better than Dak, but given that their career marks are well within range of each other (although Dak comes in ahead of him in many if not most of the categories) it's a bit ridiculous to claim that anyone who disagrees with this assertion has their head in the sand or that Stafford's being better "isn't even debatable". 

Dak dropped in the draft due primarily to his dwi in college. He’s got all the throws he needs, his long ball accuracy was his issue and that has improved. Dak was having a remarkable season up until the calf injury. He was having great season last year when he got hurt. I also don’t think this group of receivers are good at running routes. And the interior line issues are a problem.

Stafford has been a good QB but the lions organization has been a train wreck since the original thunderbird was introduced.

[statsman 5425]

Do you even watch Cowboy games? Dak can’t hit guys in stride. He leaves so many yards on the field as guys have to slow down or stop to catch his passes. 

[Zeus 5950]

Imagine Sean Payton 

Imagine

[Zeus 5950]

3 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Good luck on your Bengals bet.

I'll take the Rams defense and Kupp.

Yup

[Texzilla58 4717]

Imagine Sean Payton 
Imagine

Why? He ain’t going anywhere but a booth. The price for any team would be crippling in cash and draft capital.

Besides, you really want a coach with a nearly identical record to McCarthy?

[C-Man 27057]

6 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

That was a bad play. By and large, Stafford played really well in that game. Especially on 3rd down, when they needed him the most. We can pretend like Cooper Kupp has always been this guy, but he wasn’t this guy until Stafford got there. He’s always been really fucking accurate and he’s never been afraid to sling it and trust his arm. That’s always been his gift and his curse (along with injuries) but he has more arm talent than most qbs in the league, including Dak. That isn’t even debatable. He’s even more athletic. 
 

This doesn’t have to be a Stafford vs Dak debate because I think Dak is good enough to win with and he’s better than mediocre. He’s a top 10 qb. But Stafford is better. Always has been….

When healthy, of course. 

When healthy? Stafford had a couple of nagging injuries in his first two years and then played like 130-something consecutive games before injuring his back in 2019, I think. He's played all 16 games every season other than that.

 

3 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

I think Burrow is way better than Stafford. Teams matter though. And the Rams are loaded. Would be a joke if they don't win.

Burrow might be the best QB in football in a year or two.

 

1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

Hard to disagree with those, but that does include the luxury of hindsight.

Mayock's pre-draft rankings had Watt at 35 and Charlton at 49.
https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mayock-s-2017-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings-0ap3000000802568

PFF had Watt at 41 and Charlton at28
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-final-pff-draft-board-top-250-prospects-of-2017

Sporting News had Watt at 68 and Charlton at 32.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2017-big-board-top-100-players-prospects-mock/2tcp8ji48gg11lqoicxk25kdb

Watt was not ranked above 32 in any pre-draft review I can find.  No one projected Watt as a DPOY-level prospect.

Zeke over Ramsey was a bad choice.  Mayock had Ramsey at 2.  ESPN had him at 3.  BR's Miller: 1.  SBNation: 3.  PFF: 3.  It may have existed, but I could not find a site that claimed Zeke > Ramsey.  Rule of thumb is that you always take the shutdown corner over a just about anything, esp. an RB.  Selecting Ramsey in Round 1 would have availed Dallas the possibility of grabbing Henry in the 2nd round.  Can you imagine a draft of Ramsey, Henry, and Dak?

Zeke over Ramsey is the reason the Cowboys won 13 games in his and Dak's rookie year. Yes, he's a liability now but he was a better fit at the time given the Cowboys' fantastic offensive line at the time. Yes, if they had the foresight of taking Ramsey and Henry back-to-back it would've made sense but would the Cowboys have done that?

Taco over Watt was inexcusable but that was because Marinelli ran a 4-3, IIRC. Everybody knew Taco was a guy who never showed anything except a couple of breakout games in his senior year. I don't care if you don't take Watt -- the Taco pick was fucking awful.

 

1 hour ago, Texzilla58 said:

Dak dropped in the draft due primarily to his dwi in college. He’s got all the throws he needs, his long ball accuracy was his issue and that has improved. Dak was having a remarkable season up until the calf injury. He was having great season last year when he got hurt. I also don’t think this group of receivers are good at running routes. And the interior line issues are a problem.

Stafford has been a good QB but the lions organization has been a train wreck since the original thunderbird was introduced.

You're a moron. Amari Cooper is widely considered one of the absolute best route-runners in football.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

2 hours ago, boilerhorn said:

Hard to disagree with those, but that does include the luxury of hindsight.

Mayock's pre-draft rankings had Watt at 35 and Charlton at 49.
https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mayock-s-2017-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings-0ap3000000802568

PFF had Watt at 41 and Charlton at28
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-final-pff-draft-board-top-250-prospects-of-2017

Sporting News had Watt at 68 and Charlton at 32.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2017-big-board-top-100-players-prospects-mock/2tcp8ji48gg11lqoicxk25kdb

Watt was not ranked above 32 in any pre-draft review I can find.  No one projected Watt as a DPOY-level prospect.

Zeke over Ramsey was a bad choice.  Mayock had Ramsey at 2.  ESPN had him at 3.  BR's Miller: 1.  SBNation: 3.  PFF: 3.  It may have existed, but I could not find a site that claimed Zeke > Ramsey.  Rule of thumb is that you always take the shutdown corner over a just about anything, esp. an RB.  Selecting Ramsey in Round 1 would have availed Dallas the possibility of grabbing Henry in the 2nd round.  Can you imagine a draft of Ramsey, Henry, and Dak?

Yes. Some of us have been complaining about this for 4-5 years and this is what was advocated.  This isn't the fucking 90's.  You never draft a RB in the top 10 anymore.  Frankly, RBs don't matter (don't take it literally, but in terms of draft capital).   Not one leading rusher from the Final Four was taken in the first round.  Only truly stupid teams draft a RB in the top half of the first round and really in the top 40 picks.

2 hours ago, statsman said:

Do you even watch Cowboy games? Dak can’t hit guys in stride. He leaves so many yards on the field as guys have to slow down or stop to catch his passes. 

Dak isn't the most accurate QB in the league but he's far from what you imply.  Dak actually was top 10 for least amount in bad throw %s in the league last year and as many have stated, he struggled a little bit after the calf injury.  We could do better than Dak (anyone trading Mahomes after he had one of the worst halves in playoff football in the last decade (still would) or Josh Allen?), but we could do much, much worse -- see every team in our division.

31 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Zeke over Ramsey is the reason the Cowboys won 13 games in his and Dak's rookie year. Yes, he's a liability now but he was a better fit at the time given the Cowboys' fantastic offensive line at the time. Yes, if they had the foresight of taking Ramsey and Henry back-to-back it would've made sense but would the Cowboys have done that?

Taco over Watt was inexcusable but that was because Marinelli ran a 4-3, IIRC. Everybody knew Taco was a guy who never showed anything except a couple of breakout games in his senior year. I don't care if you don't take Watt -- the Taco pick was fucking awful.

Better fit?  For what?  A year?  Ramsey has been an elite corner since he stepped in the league.  It was a horrendous pick.  I think what defenders should say is that Zeke used to be an elite RB, but that's the point, only a few say elite more than 5 years and you can get those generally in later rounds. Drafting Zeke was evidence the Cowboys still were a decade behind the league and hadn't figured out modern pro football.  The issue is Jerrah actually becomes a coward about things.  We had overdrafted Mo Claiborne a few years earlier in the top 5 and he was scared to draft a CB again in the same basic spot.

Agreed about Marinelli.  He was horrible in draft analysis.  Not only Taco by Trysten Hill too....

Edited February 1, 2022 by Patrick Bateman

[statsman 5425]

Jerry Jones, as GM, is the reason for the Cowboys’ decades of disappointment. Dak and Zeke are two great examples of how he sabotages his own team. Not the drafting, but the second contracts he gave them. Both are far too much. They should be figuring out how to dump Zeke right now. They need to plan to replace Dak, who will move from being overrated to a real liability in a couple of years. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

This is a bit off topic but has there ever been a QB in the history of football to improve as much as Josh Allen has over the last 3 years? Dude went from a 56% career mark in college to an atrocious 53% completion percentage with 10 TDs vs 12 INTs his rookie year and a 59% comp % his 2nd year in the league, In 2020 he came out of nowhere to set the world on fire with 37 TDs against 10 INTs at a whopping nearly 70% completion percentage. His improvement is truly miraculous. Allen's collective physical traits with the combination of arm, size, and athleticism are completely unmatched by any other QB in the league. Even in the loss to the Chiefs his best was better than Patrick Mahomes. I don't understand why Chicago and Miami didn't march directly to Daboll's front the door with a ridiculous offer at their first opportunity.

 

I mainly bring this up to offer that we give a slight bit of pause to the possibility of Daboll doing the same thing with Jones in New York. Say what you want, but Daniel Jones is an A1 athlete. And at 6'5", with a strong arm, the possibility that Daboll might work his magic with him is slighlyt above the 0% that most people on here want to give him. Kadarius Toney, Saquon Barkley, and the possibility of some quality draft picks and free agent pick ups doesnt look that far off from what Allen was working with in Buffalo prior to Diggs getting there. People forget, but Jones looked pretty good the first 4 or 5 games of this past season prior to his injury. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

This is a bit off topic but has there ever been a QB in the history of football to improve as much as Josh Allen has over the last 3 years? Dude went from a 56% career mark in college to an atrocious 53% completion percentage with 10 TDs vs 12 INTs his rookie year and a 59% comp % his 2nd year in the league, In 2020 he came out of nowhere to set the world on fire with 37 TDs against 10 INTs at a whopping nearly 70% completion percentage. His improvement is truly miraculous. Allen's collective physical traits with the combination of arm, size, and athleticism are completely unmatched by any other QB in the league. Even in the loss to the Chiefs his best was better than Patrick Mahomes. I don't understand why Chicago and Miami didn't march directly to Daboll's front the door with a ridiculous offer at their first opportunity.

 

I mainly bring this up to offer that we give a slight bit of pause to the possibility of Daboll doing the same thing with Jones in New York. Say what you want, but Daniel Jones is an A1 athlete. And at 6'5", with a strong arm, the possibility that Daboll might work his magic with him is slighlyt above the 0% that most people on here want to give him. Kadarius Toney, Saquon Barkley, and the possibility of some quality draft picks and free agent pick ups doesnt look that far off from what Allen was working with in Buffalo prior to Diggs getting there. People forget, but Jones looked pretty good the first 4 or 5 games of this past season prior to his injury. 

Couldn’t agree with you more. I think Daniel Jones is more talented than anyone wants to give him credit for. Not saying that I think Daboll can get it out of him, but the improvement that Josh Allen made was night and day. I think he could help him turn into a competent qb if guys on that team stay healthy.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

12 minutes ago, statsman said:

Jerry Jones, as GM, is the reason for the Cowboys’ decades of disappointment. Dak and Zeke are two great examples of how he sabotages his own team. Not the drafting, but the second contracts he gave them. Both are far too much. They should be figuring out how to dump Zeke right now. They need to plan to replace Dak, who will move from being overrated to a real liability in a couple of years. 

Zeke receiving a 2nd contract was all but guaranteed the moment we took him with our highest pick since Troy Aikman. The mistake was drafting him in the first place. A right minded team doesn't draft a player at the #4 spot unless they plan and hope on that player being on the team beyond his rookie contract. Our Oline was so dominant that 1-legged Darren McFadden ran for 1100 yards the year before we drafted Zeke. There would've been plenty of opportunities to draft an RB later on in the draft. 

[markstanco 12509]

Do you even watch Cowboy games? Dak can’t hit guys in stride. He leaves so many yards on the field as guys have to slow down or stop to catch his passes. 

Around the cowboys camp Dak’s back shoulder pass is simply called pass.

[Brew 3047]

11 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Did you guys see the 49ers safety drop Staffords lame duck pass?

Jimmy G was terrible, Rams were loaded and it still took a 49ers defensive back dropping an easy pick.

It’s always interesting what people focus on to try to help their cause. That was a shit throw, that doesn’t erase the rest of the game. They would not have been in that position without the pretty solid play in the end zone by the DB that caused the earlier interception and the dropped balls by the WR’s in the first half. Stafford has had a lights out playoffs with a couple bad throws mixed in, but anyone that doesn’t see how great he has played is just pushing their own narrative.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Dallas though.

[Texzilla58 4717]

Zeke receiving a 2nd contract was all but guaranteed the moment we took him with our highest pick since Troy Aikman. The mistake was drafting him in the first place. A right minded team doesn't draft a player at the #4 spot unless they plan and hope on that player being on the team beyond his rookie contract. Our Oline was so dominant that 1-legged Darren McFadden ran for 1100 yards the year before we drafted Zeke. There would've been plenty of opportunities to draft an RB later on in the draft. 

Terrible to draft a RB that high in today’s league, worse to give a blockbuster 2nd contract, most worst to give 2nd contract 2 or 3 years too early. Jerry should have dug in his heels and let zeke twist in the wind. At that time zeke was looking like a suspension machine and had no maturity. I still think he’s a lazy fuck but keeps his party life hidden.

I wouldn’t give Jim Brown a second contract these days. And he did all he did and never broke a sweat, left football to bang Raquel Welch and Todd grenades on movie Nazis.

[statsman 5425]

Dak is third highest paid at QB. I count seven QBs I’d rather have for the next few years- Mahoney, Allen, Wilson, Stanford, Herbert, Jackson and Murray. Maybe Lawrence. It’s not the worst QB situation- Houston has that. There are other teams locked in with QBs worse than Dak- Detroit, Minnesota, Indy. It’s the size of his contract that’s crippling. 
The reason teams want OCs like Moore- system OCs- is that a system makes a mobile, raw QB (like Dak was) functional at a high level, if the surrounding pieces are good. This works, if you’re not paying the QB too much. The Cowboys are paying too much. 

['stache 21774]

16 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Tap the breaks on the Bengals and Mike Brown suddenly becoming a good owner. They infamously didn't even have a scouting department when Marvin Lewis 1st got there. Any success that organization has is in spite of their owner not because they suddenly became a good and well run organization. 

Maybe, and yet I've never heard his name until now, have no idea what he looks like, and have never heard him speak. If you're going to be incompetent, at least do so behind closed doors, and maybe eventually some shit will stick, as it apparently has this year, and probably long term if Burrow can play at this level longterm. Jerry will always make the franchise about himself, and he'll keep losing until he can claim that he alone led to success. It's been 25 years, any rational human would realize that the formula needs to change, but not a massive ego like Jerry. He could easily stay in the spotlight as a developer of The Star district, and any football success would still give him a major glow. But nope, he has to be GM and speak to the media as though he's also the head coach. None of these young up and coming coaches want any part of that bullshit. So we'll keep hiring boring yes men like the ginger and retreads like the human thumb. I liked Romo, I like Dak, it's about the only reason I stay interested. I want to see Dak and the team succeed despite Jerry. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by 'stache