The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Amazon Prime

[utee94 15826]

On 9/11/2022 at 9:34 AM, Biff Tannen said:

As mentioned upthread, the Uruk-Hai were bred to be able to withstand sunlight.

Yes but in the movies there were regular orcs moving about in daylight as well, alongside the Uruk-Hai.  And not just near Mordor where there was a veil of darkness, but also the warg-mounted orcs attacked the Rohirrim in broad daylight en route to Helm's Deep.

The descriptions basically say that orcs don't like sunlight, since they were originally born in darkness, but they can tolerate it when they must.

Maybe the orcs in Rings of Power react more strongly to sunlight, because they're thousands of years closer to their birth, and haven't built up as much tolerance to sunlight, as the orcs of the Third Age?  Just guessing here.

 

 

 

[ztejas 43467]

6 minutes ago, utee94 said:

but also the warg-mounted orcs attacked the Rohirrim in broad daylight en route to Helm's Deep.

I think that's the only example and also I believe that was an addition to the movies and not from the books. 

It's definitely less pronounced in LOTR. For whatever reason. 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

8 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yes but in the movies there were regular orcs moving about in daylight as well, alongside the Uruk-Hai.  And not just near Mordor where there was a veil of darkness, but also the warg-mounted orcs attacked the Rohirrim in broad daylight en route to Helm's Deep.

The descriptions basically say that orcs don't like sunlight, since they were originally born in darkness, but they can tolerate it when they must.

Maybe the orcs in Rings of Power react more strongly to sunlight, because they're thousands of years closer to their birth, and haven't built up as much tolerance to sunlight, as the orcs of the Third Age?  Just guessing here.

 

 

 

The orcs in LOTR were essentially forced to go out in the sunlight or face death at the hands of the Uruk Hai or Sauron.  It has never been clear to me, but there may also be different 'breeds' of orcs that have differing resistance to sunlight.  The Hobbit mentions 'goblins' that won't even leave the caves to chase Bilbo and the Dwarfs.  It may be that they just didn't have the motivation.  Or they could be much more susceptible to injury from the sun than the orcs in LOTR.  /nerdout

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

This show is intentionally leaving a lot of things in the dark as it's timeline seems to be all over the place or at least ambiguous.

A quick read of the Appendices in ROTK wrt the chronology of the second age clearly shows this. 

I took a dive into the appendix just to clarify a few things and now I m more confused than ever.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

9 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

This show is intentionally leaving a lot of things in the dark as it's timeline seems to be all over the place or at least ambiguous.

A quick read of the Appendices in ROTK wrt the chronology of the second age clearly shows this. 

I took a dive into the appendix just to clarify a few things and now I m more confused than ever.

Agreed on this.  I'm pretty sure we're looking at different time periods.  At least for Galadriel and Arondir.  

[Js1 85372]

28 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

Agreed on this.  I'm pretty sure we're looking at different time periods.  At least for Galadriel and Arondir.  

Don’t think so. Gil-galad declared the war over when he recalled Galadriel and the Northern Army. That’s what Galadriel and her army were sent to Valinar. And Arondir and all those elves were leaving their post guarding/patrolling the valley of human villages because the war was over. 

[utee94 15826]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Don’t think so. Gil-galad declared the war over when he recalled Galadriel and the Northern Army. That’s what Galadriel and her army were sent to Valinar. And Arondir and all those elves were leaving their post guarding/patrolling the valley of human villages because the war was over. 

Agree, those two separate occurrences seem linked in the same timeline to me, as well.

I think the showrunners are just playing with the timeline, because they can, and because they must.  They can't use the source material that details it, so they're just blending items in the overall timeline in an effort to create an entertaining and compelling story.  And I'm totally fine with that, since they're doing a really good job so far.

 

 

[goatsaag 279]

If you're expecting the timeline of this show to perfectly match up to the thousands of years that passed during this time in Tolkien's lore, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment for no reason. They are condensing key events that happened over thousands of years into a time period that makes more sense for a TV show.

[Sawbonz 27566]

On 9/7/2022 at 9:36 AM, F250 said:

 

Maybe he should buy Amazon 

[Augustus 3061]

"NIce" is a little generous

[crash_davis 23113]

1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

If you're expecting the timeline of this show to perfectly match up to the thousands of years that passed during this time in Tolkien's lore, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment for no reason. They are condensing key events that happened over thousands of years into a time period that makes more sense for a TV show.

You've summed up a big reason why the bookfag Tolkien fans are shitting all over this show, because they are taking liberties with the storylines and timelines they don't have rights to. That and the new characters and how they've written Galadriel.

I really like the show. But I'm not a pissed off gamer dude who never leaves his house.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

If you're expecting the timeline of this show to perfectly match up to the thousands of years that passed during this time in Tolkien's lore, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment for no reason. They are condensing key events that happened over thousands of years into a time period that makes more sense for a TV show.

Excuse me, is it not reasonable to expect a show to be shown in real time?  I would like to have a show that lasts thousands of years!

[Buzzrock 14922]

I’m still hanging in. I liked the crazed looking warg-pup, that was a different take than the Jackson movies. I still find Galadriel pretty unlikable which is a bummer.

Who do we think Adar is? The OG Uruk-hai?

[Gatorubet 30246]

On 9/10/2022 at 9:14 AM, texasfight2025 said:

Saw a theory that Halbrand could end up the king of the dead that abandons Isuldur/oathbreaks.  But unless he has Numenorian blood/long life, I’m not sure the timelines work

Wasn’t the Nazgûl king supposed to be from Angmar? Pretty sure that’s not in the south.

[kevwun 15795]

Yes, the Witch King of Angmar.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

9 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Wasn’t the Nazgûl king supposed to be from Angmar? Pretty sure that’s not in the south.

[ztejas 43467]

8 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Wasn’t the Nazgûl king supposed to be from Angmar? Pretty sure that’s not in the south.

Yeah iirc it's up where like the lonely mountain is from the hobbit. Pretty far north. 

Also all of the angmar stuff happened well into the TA. So as much as they may be jumping around I don't think this show is going to cover any of it. I'm guessing they go right up to Isildur keeping the ring, because I believe that's the break between SA and TA. 

Spoiler

Spoiler because some of us are reading more of the lore backstory because we can't help ourselves and some of us probably want to know as little as possible.

 

I think he's a manifestation of Sauron (which I know has already been brought up in here). In the lore - Sauron corrupts Numenor and then sails across to middle earth. I think maybe after Elendil and Isildur leave ME. So both geographically and timeline wise it lines up. 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by ztejas

[crash_davis 23113]

theory on Halbrand, per the internets

Spoiler

He's the King of the Dead. He, Galadriel, Elendil, Isildur, and Galadriel leave Numenor to ME. Galadriel and possibly Isildur help him assume Kingship of his people. Then when Isildur calls him to join a battle, Halbrand refuses and is cursed by Isildur. That's the most likely story line with what's been shown of his story.

 

He isn't Sauron because Sauron goes to Numenor to corrupt the Numenoreans against the Valar. At this point in the movie, they are already corrupted.

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by crash_davis

[NOMAAA 1696]

i was told there would be rings of power.

[crash_davis 23113]

17 minutes ago, NOMAAA said:

i was told there would be rings of power.

This show is supposed to have 5 seasons. The rings aren't getting created any time soon.

[ztejas 43467]

28 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

theory on Halbrand, per the internets

  Hide contents

He's the King of the Dead. He, Galadriel, Elendil, Isildur, and Galadriel leave Numenor to ME. Galadriel and possibly Isildur help him assume Kingship of his people. Then when Isildur calls him to join a battle, Halbrand refuses and is cursed by Isildur. That's the most likely story line with what's been shown of his story.

 

He isn't Sauron because Sauron goes to Numenor to corrupt the Numenoreans against the Valar. At this point in the movie, they are already corrupted.

 

Hmmm. I like that better. 

I don't think the Numenoreans are already corrupted as much as they are sort of disinterested and isolationist. 

[crash_davis 23113]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Hmmm. I like that better. 

I don't think the Numenoreans are already corrupted as much as they are sort of disinterested and isolationist. 

They are already corrupted. They were brothers with the Elves, held them in high regard, and honored the Valar until Sauron was "captured" and started corrupting them through the King. 

At this point in the show, the Faithful are already the minority and are hiding their faith to Eru, the Valar, and the Eldars (Elves).

Edited September 13, 2022 by crash_davis

[Augustus 3061]

5 hours ago, crash_davis said:

theory on Halbrand, per the internets

  Reveal hidden contents

He's the King of the Dead. He, Galadriel, Elendil, Isildur, and Galadriel leave Numenor to ME. Galadriel and possibly Isildur help him assume Kingship of his people. Then when Isildur calls him to join a battle, Halbrand refuses and is cursed by Isildur. That's the most likely story line with what's been shown of his story.

 

He isn't Sauron because Sauron goes to Numenor to corrupt the Numenoreans against the Valar. At this point in the movie, they are already corrupted.

 

 

Spoiler

It was Isildur who cursed the king and his army?  I don't recall from the movie. Can just anybody throw down a curse like that or is Isildur possessed of some kind of magic?

 

[crash_davis 23113]

4 minutes ago, Augustus said:

 

  Hide contents

It was Isildur who cursed the king and his army?  I don't recall from the movie. Can just anybody throw down a curse like that or is Isildur possessed of some kind of magic?

 

Spoiler

Yes it was Isildur. Link below goes into more detail. 

TLDR: he may or may not have the power to make that curse. Maybe he mumbled the worlds but Eru brought it to be. Which means...Isildur made the fucking curse. Author of link is splitting hairs.

https://fictionhorizon.com/how-did-isildur-curse-the-men-of-dunharrow/

 

[utee94 15826]

Spoiler

Nothing to say, just wanted to feel like I was part of the secret discussion.

Also, Saban is Sauron.

 

[atomheartbevo 89696]

27 minutes ago, Augustus said:

 

  Hide contents

It was Isildur who cursed the king and his army?  I don't recall from the movie. Can just anybody throw down a curse like that or is Isildur possessed of some kind of magic?

 

I have thrown down curses on multiple sports coaches and teams, and nothing ever happened, so not just anybody can.

[Rimbo 25970]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:59 AM, Longhornfan1024 said:

The orcs in LOTR were essentially forced to go out in the sunlight or face death at the hands of the Uruk Hai or Sauron.  It has never been clear to me, but there may also be different 'breeds' of orcs that have differing resistance to sunlight.  The Hobbit mentions 'goblins' that won't even leave the caves to chase Bilbo and the Dwarfs.  It may be that they just didn't have the motivation.  Or they could be much more susceptible to injury from the sun than the orcs in LOTR.  /nerdout

"Goblin" is just another word for "orc."

22 hours ago, Js1 said:

Don’t think so. Gil-galad declared the war over when he recalled Galadriel and the Northern Army. That’s what Galadriel and her army were sent to Valinar. And Arondir and all those elves were leaving their post guarding/patrolling the valley of human villages because the war was over. 

The war of the First Age.

16 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I’m still hanging in. I liked the crazed looking warg-pup, that was a different take than the Jackson movies. I still find Galadriel pretty unlikable which is a bummer.

Who do we think Adar is? The OG Uruk-hai?

I read somewhere that 

Spoiler

Adar is just another word for Sauron

Did we decide who the old man the hobbits found is yet?

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

18 hours ago, goatsaag said:

If you're expecting the timeline of this show to perfectly match up to the thousands of years that passed during this time in Tolkien's lore, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment for no reason. They are condensing key events that happened over thousands of years into a time period that makes more sense for a TV show.

I don't really have any beef with the show at all. I stated what I did out of a sense of frustration on part in getting my head around reconciling the appendix timeline and the TV timeline.  I'm sure after some more study and some more plot development, things will clear up just fine.

I took a little deeper dive into the Nerd of the Rings Youtube channel and that has been really helpful.  I think what a lot of us that do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Silmarilion or the Appendices have been struggling with is all the new names and locations for the same shit that was in LOTR.  We are kind of moving in slow motion with recognition..kind of like converting metric to English on the fly or being not quite fluent in a foreign language.  

[crash_davis 23113]

6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Did we decide who the old man the hobbits found is yet?

Spoiler

My guess is one of the Blue Wizards. Saruman and Gandalf would be too lazy. These writers don't seem to be the lazy type.

Could it be Sauron? That fireball was flying from the direction of Numenor, where Sauron was supposed to be at this timeframe in the books. Again because they don't have rights to that story line, he could have come from Numenor to the Southlands not following the lore of what exactly happened (sinking of Numenor, etc), which I think is where the Harfoots are. But that would go against the good feeling that Nori has about finding that stranger. I guess it could be Sauron but that would make this a really dark series.

In LOTR, we met Radagast, Saruman, and Gandalf, 3 of the 5 wizards. That leaves the 2 Blue Wizards which coincidentally have no real stories from Tolkien. That would give these writers plenty of space to craft a story and not be held to anything.

 

[Rimbo 25970]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

  Hide contents

My guess is one of the Blue Wizards. Saruman and Gandalf would be too lazy. These writers don't seem to be the lazy type.

Could it be Sauron? That fireball was flying from the direction of Numenor, where Sauron was supposed to be at this timeframe in the books. Again because they don't have rights to that story line, he could have come from Numenor to the Southlands not following the lore of what exactly happened (sinking of Numenor, etc), which I think is where the Harfoots are. But that would go against the good feeling that Nori has about finding that stranger. I guess it could be Sauron but that would make this a really dark series.

In LOTR, we met Radagast, Saruman, and Gandalf, 3 of the 5 wizards. That leaves the 2 Blue Wizards which coincidentally have no real stories from Tolkien. That would give these writers plenty of space to craft a story and not be held to anything.

 

my guess is 

Spoiler

Glorfindel, who apparently was sent back during the second age with maia-like powers

the five wizards: none show up until the third age

[crash_davis 23113]

12 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I don't really have any beef with the show at all. I stated what I did out of a sense of frustration on part in getting my head around reconciling the appendix timeline and the TV timeline.  I'm sure after some more study and some more plot development, things will clear up just fine.

I took a little deeper dive into the Nerd of the Rings Youtube channel and that has been really helpful.  I think what a lot of us that do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Silmarilion or the Appendices have been struggling with is all the new names and locations for the same shit that was in LOTR.  We are kind of moving in slow motion with recognition..kind of like converting metric to English on the fly or being not quite fluent in a foreign language.  

I think the writers are dancing around the story lines which they don't have rights to so the canon timelines do not entirely match. This pisses off the hardcore book fans but there's not much else that they can do. It will be interesting how they handle Sauron and the sinking of Numenor, on if he's still there or already in ME. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by crash_davis

[crash_davis 23113]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

my guess is 

  Reveal hidden contents

Glorfindel, who apparently was sent back during the second age with maia-like powers

the five wizards: none show up until the third age

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Wizards

The time that the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle-earth is uncertain. In Unfinished Tales, Tolkien wrote that the five Istari came to Middle-earth together in TA 1000. However, in The Peoples of Middle-earth, they are said to have arrived in the Second Age, around the year SA 1600, the time of the forging of the One Ring.[3] Their mission was directed at weakening Sauron's forces in the eastern and southern parts of Middle-earth, whereas the other Istari were focused on the west.

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

11 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Wizards

The time that the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle-earth is uncertain. In Unfinished Tales, Tolkien wrote that the five Istari came to Middle-earth together in TA 1000. However, in The Peoples of Middle-earth, they are said to have arrived in the Second Age, around the year SA 1600, the time of the forging of the One Ring.[3] Their mission was directed at weakening Sauron's forces in the eastern and southern parts of Middle-earth, whereas the other Istari were focused on the west.

and another thing...some nerd needs to come up with a Tolkien calendar that starts at zero ans just keeps going..ain't nobody got time for all these different ages.  i have a hard enough time keeping up with new places and all the elf names...my God the elf names.  Elvish ,it's like jive without the malt liquor. 

[crash_davis 23113]

15 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

and another thing...some nerd needs to come up with a Tolkien calendar that starts at zero ans just keeps going..ain't nobody got time for all these different ages.  i have a hard enough time keeping up with new places and all the elf names...my God the elf names.  Elvish ,it's like jive without the malt liquor. 

[ztejas 43467]

43 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

my guess is 

  Hide contents

Glorfindel, who apparently was sent back during the second age with maia-like powers

the five wizards: none show up until the third age

Spoiler

He doesn't look like Glorfindel though. But that's an interesting theory I haven't seen yet. 

I still think it's Saruman or Gandalf. 

 

[Rimbo 25970]

50 minutes ago, ztejas said:

  Hide contents

He doesn't look like Glorfindel though. But that's an interesting theory I haven't seen yet. 

I still think it's Saruman or Gandalf. 

 

I just looked up second age characters to see who might fit the bill. That's the only character I found that really seems to. All the rest fail in some way or another. Also, given his fate in the First Age, the few mystical things we see around him seem to echo that.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I have thrown down curses on multiple sports coaches and teams, and nothing ever happened, so not just anybody can.

This fucker apparently had the power to curse our program.

[Michael Knight 12985]

8 hours ago, ztejas said:

Hmmm. I like that better. 

I don't think the Numenoreans are already corrupted as much as they are sort of disinterested and isolationist. 

Spoiler

The Numenorians became proud and resentful and turned away from the Valar and set about to dominate the world. Elves were no longer welcome and once Sauron declared himself the king of men they took him down because of that. But then he corrupted them further and turned them to worship Morgoth with the promise of eternal life.

 

[Michael Knight 12985]

3 hours ago, Rimbo said:

my guess is 

  Reveal hidden contents

Glorfindel, who apparently was sent back during the second age with maia-like powers

the five wizards: none show up until the third age

That apparently was retconned by Tolkien and is open to interpretation.

[atomheartbevo 89696]

[Biff Tannen 45691]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Because of the leaving people behind thing?  Keep up stragglers.

[Js1 85372]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Because of the leaving people behind thing?  Keep up stragglers.

I thought it was savage but necessary and like how they reminisce about those they lost, and laugh at the stupid ways they lost some of them 

[Biff Tannen 45691]

31 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I thought it was savage but necessary and like how they reminisce about those they lost, and laugh at the stupid ways they lost some of them 

Seems to maybe be a theme too.  What with Galadriel telling them to leave the elf behind that fell when they were looking for Sauron in the snow.

[Dutchrudder 11141]

Just catching up on this, and wanted to report that Isildur's sister is very rude. 

[NOMAAA 1696]

17 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Just catching up on this, and wanted to report that Isildur's sister is very rude. 

this is the way.

[Dutchrudder 11141]

Ema Horvath plays Eärien daughter of Lord Elendil of Andúnië. 

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

Ema Horvath plays Eärien daughter of Lord Elendil of Andúnië. 

Feels like they tried a bit too hard to combine Eowyn and Arwen on that one.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

So they haven't dropped it yet because of Thursday night football? I mean, it makes sense from a business perspective, but I guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to watch it. The game looked way better than we get on cable (yes, my wife insists on keeping cable for some reason, despite almost everything we watch or the kids watch being available on streaming platforms we subscribe to) though.

[Augustus 3061]

Okay, I'm watching Fellowship of the Ring, extended version.

I think I asked earlier in this thread about the orcs sizzling/burning/whatever was happening to them in the sunlight, but they moved by day easily enough the movies.

During the council when the fellowship is formed--or just before that--when Gandalf is talking to Elrond, he mentions that the army Saruman is creating can move in sunlight.  I never noticed that before.

Cool.

How exactly are the orcs bred/spawned?  The first time I saw that movie, I thought they were actually digging them out of the earth, as if they'd been buried there for a long time.  But I guess he was breeding them.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

How exactly are the orcs bred/spawned?  The first time I saw that movie, I thought they were actually digging them out of the earth, as if they'd been buried there for a long time.  But I guess he was breeding them.

Yeah, some sort of larval/pupae/grossness buried in the ground mixed with magic and evil and mucus.