The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Amazon Prime

[eljinca 279]

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

Spoiler

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by eljinca

[Biff Tannen 45695]

So you're a fan of the show then?

[hornian 5222]

11 minutes ago, eljinca said:

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

  Hide contents

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

This you?

[Hate 20128]

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.
1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?
2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.
3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.
4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).
5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).
6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.
Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:
Spoiler

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.
- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.
- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.
- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.
- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.
- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.
- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

This is most likely fair criticism for those immersed in Tolkiens works. For the rest of us that are fans but will never read or learn the original works, the show was so much fun to watch. I can’t wait for the next season.

[Augustus 3061]

I'm reading the books now, for several reasons, among which so I can have some idea what the people know it backwards/forwards are talking about, and I easily relate to those who are attached to the canon of any literary works and don't like seeing it changed/adapted for screenplays.

But despite some fairly common shortcomings, this series turned out to be really, really enjoyable.

For most of their 1st seasons, I was enjoying HotD more than RoP, but RoP pulled away at the finish line--unless somehow HotD hits a grand slam next Sunday.

 

1 hour ago, eljinca said:

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

  Reveal hidden contents

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

This well written and well thought out, and I appreciate informed criticism, and the time you took to offer your observations.

I strongly suggest you do not watch this series anymore.

[LonghornSean 4008]

What a fuckin nerd

 

But I agree with #2. The south landers are all just like “hail king we just met!!”

[sidis 9832]

2 hours ago, eljinca said:

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

  Hide contents

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

Speaking as someone who is not immersed in or the most educated in the world of Tolkien, but also very much enjoyed watching the show…I have to say that after reading everything you wrote, I can’t disagree with anything you said. All legitimate gripes and meaningful as well.

from your list, 2,3, and 4 really bugged me at the time as well. I just assumed that there was some sort of deep cuts lore that somehow connected Sauron to hot thin lipped elf chick that I wasn’t aware of and that’s how they connected the two of them in the most improbable circumstances possible. Disappointing that’s not the case. 

I didn’t really care about 5 and 6 at all. During the harfoot scenes, I’d go get water or pee or something. Completely uninteresting to me. 

I have to admit that I didn’t think about 1 until reading your post but in retrospect….yeah, that’s really dumb. 

while not super deep into lore, I did know the story of Sauron deception plan on the rings. It is strange to me that they just completely tossed that to the side. 

Was still entertained watching the show and will watch next season.

[goatsaag 279]

4, 5, 6, and probably 3 are things that you'll probably just have to keep watching the show to find out more about.

But I agree that if you're going to type out that list and nitpick everything in the show, you should just stop watching. You're not going to enjoy it because it's not going to perfectly match the lore.

My main complaint about the show is that they really made Middle Earth seem small. The one time they did this well was the Harfoot travel scene with the song and map. Other than that, people are just wherever is convenient whenever it's convenient.

It was also weird that the Southlands village was like 50 people, half left and there were now only 50 people, almost all of them die in a battle cutting them down to 50 people, and then they get volcano'd reducing their number to 50 people. Like I'm sure there was covid stuff that made filming weird, but they did a bad job showing the scale of things.

But overall I really enjoyed things and can't wait for the next season.

[52-80 19205]

7 hours ago, eljinca said:

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

  Hide contents

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

Fair, but my thoughts on those as I was watching:

1. no, it wasnt that the scroll revealed there was no southland kings.  the scroll revealed that the hereditary line to which she thought halbrand belonged had been cut short.  that means that there had been other kings or rulers of the southlands, or that halbrand's supposed line were ruling as pretenders to the throne.

2. again, not that they were not unaware of not having a king for 1000 years, but that they didnt necessarily need one.  there was noone to rally behind, but if the village dwindled down to 100 farmers, would they have needed one anyway?  self-govern and all that.

3. need to rewatch but impression was she was simultaneously caught depantsed, and she literally and physically could not have hurt him... and then thereafter he scooted away to Hill doom.  wasnt like she entertained that charade for days while he was making the ring.

4. yeah thats a bit rube-goldberg.

5. not a fan of the drawn-out harfoot thing, but implication of that storyline was to introduce the wizard and the 3 lesbo weirdos who are implied to have a significant role going forward

6. harfoots arent army rangers.  the idea was harfoots *should* stick together (dont go off the trail!), but as vulnerable people they cant risk chasing down those that do.  so the ethos is try to stay as a pack as much as possible.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

10 hours ago, eljinca said:

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

  Reveal hidden contents

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

[Js1 85449]

10 hours ago, eljinca said:

Wall of text

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

 

2. again, not that they were not unaware of not having a king for 1000 years, but that they didnt necessarily need one.  there was noone to rally behind, but if the village dwindled down to 100 farmers, would they have needed one anyway?  self-govern and all that.

 

I agree.  Why would they need a king?  They probably thought they were an autonomous collective or maybe an anarchy-syndicalism commune that the people were taking turns to act as sort of a executive officer for the week. 

 

[Dahobbs 17627]

11 hours ago, eljinca said:

I admit that it is very hard for me to divorce my love for the Tolkein lore (have read LOTR. + Silmarillion + other work like Unfinished Tales at least 10 times), but even taking this show on its own merits, it is some of the laziest writing I've ever seen wrapped in decent CGI landscapes. I'll put the actual shitting on what Tolkien wrote in spoilers for those who don't care, but let's just go through this show on its own merits.

1) So Galadriel, the badass Commander of the North, important royal elf in Middle Earth, is unaware that there hasn't been a king in the South for 1,000 years? She needs a scroll from the catacombs (bonus points if you wonder why immortal beings like elves have catacombs) to figure that out? What about the elves, like Arondir, who are explicitly keeping watch over the Southlands for the past thousand years? Have they forgotten to mention the lack of a king in their dispatches?

2) The Southlands appears to be a single village of less than 100 people, who are also unaware that they haven't had a king in 1,000 years. The Numenoreans show up with some dude with a sigil (never explained) and Galadriel says "here's your king" and they all accept this? Zero conversation, just "Hail King"? It's beyond ridiculous.

3) So Galadriel figures out Halbrand is Sauron, the big baddy she has been chasing with a singular purpose for thousands of years, and her reaction is 1) I can't tell anyone, but trust me and 2) yes, keep making the rings Sauron wants us to make, but make three because of "balance". It's ham-fisted hackery of the finest vintage.

4) Let's talk Halbrand/Sauron. So he's on a raft in the middle of the ocean. What's the plan? Who are the other people with him? He's come up with a  heck of a long-term plan to get shipwrecked out there so that he can run into not only an elf, but one of the most powerful elves who can then convince Numenor to invade the Southlands and install him as king, against his apparent wishes, then take him to the elven capital where they are trying to craft some powerful objects. Also, if he's Sauron, how does a stab wound we don't see bring him to death's door, since he's immortal? Doesn't matter though, that elven medicine fixes him right up in the next scene, so move along and don't think about it (or anything).

5) Moving to the Harfoot story line, can anyone me walk through a purpose of having it in the show besides memberries of Gandalf and Hobbits? It related in no way to anything else in the show and nothing happens unless you thought that wizard was Sauron (which would actually have been interesting; that the precursor to Hobbits somehow created/enabled Sauron).

6) When we are actually shown some Harfoot culture (don't step off the trail, don't fall behind the wagon train, clearly the leave stragglers to get the rest of the group to safety) it is different and somewhat interesting. Those concepts are then immediately contradicted by the same characters ("what makes us different is that we stick together!" insert other saccharine tripe dialogue). It's like the writers realized the wrote something original and different, so then had to expel their bowels on top of their idea and crank up the minor chords on the soundtrack so mouth breathers can feel the emotion.

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

  Reveal hidden contents

- The rings of power were created between 1200-1590 of the Second Age by Celebrimbor and his friend Narvi, a dwarf from Khazad-dum. Celebrimbor was King of Eregion and did not live with Gil-galad or Elrond in Lindon.

- At this time, Sauron is established in Mordor and large armies of orcs are appearing across middle earth. He disguises himself as Annatar ("Lord of Gifts") and tries to gain access to Elven kingdoms to convince them to create the rings in an effort to control them. Gil-galad doesn't trust Annatar and denies him entry into Lindon. Likewise, Elrond and Galadriel are explicitly stated as not trusting Annatar.

- Celebrimbor is a smith, and Annatar befriends him and other smiths, giving them knowledge which allows them to create the rings of power. The 7 and 9 rings are created first, with Annatar's help. Sauron/Annatar is creating the one ring in secret concurrently. The three Elven rings were created solely by Celebrimbor and were "untouched" by Sauron/Annatar. Once Sauron puts on the one ring, he is revealed to the Elves, who hide their rings from him which begins a war - not the last alliance war, but an earlier war in which Sauron is defeated by Elves and Numenoreans and he returns to Mordor to sulk, effectively.

- Galadriel, when the rings of power are being created, is living with her husband Celeborn and their daughter Celebrian. They ruled Eregion prior to Celebrimbor. It's pretty explicit that Galadriel then moved and lived in Lorien, while Celeborn stayed and led the first armies against Sauron in the Second Age around 1700, in which Celebrimbor is killed and the Kingdom of Eregion is destroyed. I guess it's cooler if she has no family in the show and is just a badass warrior instead of just one of the most powerful and important elves in Middle Earth? Oh, her daughter is Elrond's wife and later Arwen's mom.

- On the Numenor storyline, the timeline above related to the rings (~1500-1700 Second Age) is roughly 1600 years before the reign of Tar-Palantir in Numenor and when Elendil, Isildur and Anarion are alive. Their big jugs daughter/sister is not a real character and I don't really understand why we needed her in the show. A maid or anyone could have served the same purpose in the final episode.

- Miriel never rules Numenor, and is married to Ar-Pharazon (the steward in the show) who is also her cousin.

- I don't care about the multiracial elves, dwarves or harfoot characters, but Miriel is explicitly described as "fairer than silver, ivory or pearls".... Also, dwarven women are written to have beards and look identical to dwarven men.

 

1) it isnt about whether there has been a king. It is about the royal lineage and whether it was possible for Halbrand to have been a royal descendant. The elves don't really seem to care that much about men, so I'm not surprised that no one really knew off the top of their head whether that royal line still existed or not. 

2) I just assumed the people were that desperate. Silly, yes. But given their state, not completely incomprehensible.

3) I guess she figured, as he said, that no one would trust her again. Agree it is silly. I don't know that they had a choice with the rings given the situation. Also, based on the lore, creating the Elven rings isn't really the source of the trouble. 

4) I assumed Sauron was being honest. There was no plan. He had given up. She quite literally saved him. 

5) we will find out. 

6) eh, who the fuck cares nerd. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Dahobbs

[atomheartbevo 89757]

11 hours ago, eljinca said:

Those are just a few turds from the toddler's diaper that is this show. Lore related nonsense in spoilers for those that care:

28 minutes ago, Js1 said:

[Dutchrudder 11147]

Now that you mention it, we have had 6 movies with a collective run time of about 24 hours of screentime, and we have NEVER had a single female dwarf show up? Not one?  I can't recall seeing one before. I remember seeing the lack of lady dwarf beards after the posters for RoP came out, and it was the rallying cry of the "this show is going to suck!" Crowd. That and Galadriel's armor was too shiny. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Dutchrudder

[Biff Tannen 45695]

51 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Now that you mention it, we have had 6 movies with a collective run time of about 24 hours of screentime, and we have NEVER had a single female dwarf show up? Not one?  I can't recall seeing one before. I remember seeing the lack of lady dwarf beards after the posters for RoP came out, and it was the rallying cry of the "this show is going to suck!" Crowd. That and Galadriel's armor was too shiny. 

It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.  And this in turn has given rise to the belief that there ARE no Dwarf-women, and that Dwarves just spring out of holes in the ground! Which is, of course, ridiculous.

[Augustus 3061]

There are tons of folks all over the internet arguing that if you don't believe The Stranger is Gandalf, then you're just in denial or willfully delusional because they've made it obvious that's exactly who he is.

I disagree.

There are several really popular YouTube channels that review fantasy/science fiction movies and tv series, and some of the better known and most watched of them believe that this isn't Gandalf, but a Blue Wizard.  

When it comes to all things Lord of the Rings, then Nerd of the Rings is, in my opinion, hands down the best resource on YouTube or elsewhere.  Here's his video regarding the meteor man and his real identity.

 

[MissingInAction 25126]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:54 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Aren’t all elves supposed to be really attractive?

Yea, I'm not gay but I'm willing to learn.

[goatsaag 279]

26 minutes ago, Augustus said:

There are tons of folks all over the internet arguing that if you don't believe The Stranger is Gandalf, then you're just in denial or willfully delusional because they've made it obvious that's exactly who he is.

I disagree.

There are several really popular YouTube channels that review fantasy/science fiction movies and tv series, and some of the better known and most watched of them believe that this isn't Gandalf, but a Blue Wizard.  

When it comes to all things Lord of the Rings, then Nerd of the Rings is, in my opinion, hands down the best resource on YouTube or elsewhere.  Here's his video regarding the meteor man and his real identity.

 

It's Gandalf. They aren't directly quoting Gandalf to have it be a blue wizard no one knows anything about. This video even starts with "I do believe there is a very good chance he could be Gandalf". This is a content creator making a video about something he hopes is true that he knows isn't going to be true.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

There's a chance it was Gandalf when they filmed the first season but it won't be when they film the second.

Edited October 28, 2022 by NotActuallyALonghorn

[utee94 15835]

1 minute ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There's a chance it was Gandalf when they filmed the first season but it won't be when they film the second.

There is also a chance that it was not Gandalf when they filmed the first season but it will be when they film the second!

 

[52-80 19205]

One way for a wizard to prove his identity is by showing people his sleeves

[Amos Moses 795]

Either way with regard to speculation whether it’s Gandalf or not, I don’t like half of these opinions half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of them half as well as they deserve.

[utee94 15835]

32 minutes ago, Amos Moses said:

Either way with regard to speculation whether it’s Gandalf or not, I don’t like half of these opinions half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of them half as well as they deserve.

 

[Augustus 3061]

7 hours ago, goatsaag said:

It's Gandalf. They aren't directly quoting Gandalf to have it be a blue wizard no one knows anything about. This video even starts with "I do believe there is a very good chance he could be Gandalf". This is a content creator making a video about something he hopes is true that he knows isn't going to be true.

The problems with absolutes like this is there's just no accountability when you're wrong.

I want a pound of flesh.

[ztejas 43522]

6 hours ago, Amos Moses said:

Either way with regard to speculation whether it’s Gandalf or not, I don’t like half of these opinions half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of them half as well as they deserve.

A comment like this is never late. Nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to. 

[52-80 19205]

20 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Yea, I'm not gay but I'm willing to learn.

 

[dcar00 14316]

...

Edited October 30, 2022 by dcar00

[Hate 20128]

...

Maybe…but you can never count out Sauron.

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

I was taken in when Sauron was trying to persuade Galadriel

[utee94 15835]

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

My name is billfromlaketravis. And I like the The Hobbit films. 
 

Flame away. 

[atomheartbevo 89757]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

My name is billfromlaketravis. And I like the The Hobbit films. 

Flame away. 

Is this you?

[Biff Tannen 45695]

10 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

My name is billfromlaketravis. And I like the The Hobbit films. 
 

Flame away. 

They are fine if you take them for what they are. Which is a sad shell of what they could have been. 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

That said about The Hobbit films, the franchise needed some new blood. Rings of Power was fantastic. 

[Js1 85449]

3 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

That said about The Hobbit films, the franchise needed some new blood. Rings of Power was fantastic. 

I’m in agreement. I liked the Hobbit movies. Not loved, like the Fellowship trilogy, but liked. And I enjoyed ROP and plan on a rewatch soon 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Assuming "The Stranger" is Gandalf, I can understand why he has a sweet spot for Hobbits. 

[Biff Tannen 45695]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Assuming "The Stranger" is Gandalf, I can understand why he has a sweet spot for Hobbits. 

Seems like the only option at this point. 

[Augustus 3061]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:50 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Seems like the only option at this point. 

I may go down in flames, but I'm clinging to my prediction that he's not Gandalf.

Gandalf specifically stated that he never ventured into the east.  They could have this go wizard go anywhere.  If he's Gandalf, why send him to the one place he made clear he'd never been?

He's a blue wizard.

I'll eat an extra serving of crow, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Did he state that in the movies, or just the books? Because if it was just in the books I'd imagine they are following movie cannon and anything not in the movies is fair game to mess around with.

[goatsaag 279]

9 minutes ago, Augustus said:

I may go down in flames, but I'm clinging to my prediction that he's not Gandalf.

Gandalf specifically stated that he never ventured into the east.  They could have this go wizard go anywhere.  If he's Gandalf, why send him to the one place he made clear he'd never been?

He's a blue wizard.

I'll eat an extra serving of crow, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Gandalf didn't actually say that he'd never gone East in the past. He says "to the East I go not". Maybe they never quite make it "East". Maybe he goes East and we find out why he doesn't go there anymore. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by goatsaag

[Rimbo 26018]

Look, it's very simple.

If this show has any respect for the source material, it's a Blue Wizard.

We've already established that this show has no respect for the source material.

[Biff Tannen 45695]

7 hours ago, Augustus said:

I may go down in flames, but I'm clinging to my prediction that he's not Gandalf.

Gandalf specifically stated that he never ventured into the east.  They could have this go wizard go anywhere.  If he's Gandalf, why send him to the one place he made clear he'd never been?

He's a blue wizard.

I'll eat an extra serving of crow, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

6 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Look, it's very simple.

If this show has any respect for the source material, it's a Blue Wizard.

We've already established that this show has no respect for the source material.

This.  I would LOVE for him to be a Blue Wizard, but I just don't see it happening.

[Rimbo 26018]

And to be completely fair to Amazon, part of the problem here is that the Tolkien estate didn't sell them the rights to the source material.

Amazon can't be completely true to the source if they wanted to. Not without a lawsuit.

This raises a chicken-and-egg question of whether Amz couldn't be true because of the lack of rights, or if Tolkien wouldn't sell because Amz wouldn't be true. Don't really know and don't really care. Putting your own spin on a story is fine if you do it well. Amazon is doing... okay.

[Augustus 3061]

I thought they did better than okay.  I thoroughly enjoyed it.

But I'm not one the Tolkien zealots who knows all the material inside and out.  Few adaptations are every going to please that crowd.

I do really enjoy watching the Nerd of the Rings videos.  The volume of material is just astounding.

[utee94 15835]

On 2/7/2023 at 1:55 PM, Augustus said:

I thought they did better than okay.  I thoroughly enjoyed it.

But I'm not one the Tolkien zealots who knows all the material inside and out.  Few adaptations are every going to please that crowd.

I do really enjoy watching the Nerd of the Rings videos.  The volume of material is just astounding.

I'm a little bit of a Tolkien zealot and know most of the material well, and I still don't care that the show creators are playing loose with the stories.  I've found Rings of Power to be entertaining and, for the most part, well done.

 

[Js1 85449]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I'm a little bit of a Tolkien zealot and know most of the material well, and I still don't care that the show creators are playing loose with the stories.  I've found Rings of Power to be entertaining and, for the most part, well done.

 

The internet police are going to get ya!

[atomheartbevo 89757]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:47 AM, utee94 said:

I'm a little bit of a Tolkien zealot and know most of the material well, and I still don't care that the show creators are playing loose with the stories.  I've found Rings of Power to be entertaining and, for the most part, well done.

It's fascinating when you remove the music from some scenes

 

[Augustus 3061]

So, I've begun a rewatch, and noticed in the first episode, when we cut away from Galadriel aboard the ship to Elrond and Gil-Galad, Elrond says that Galadriel has passed beyond his sight and that she was so certain her search would continue.

Gil-Galad replies:  "We foresaw that if she had, she might have inadvertently kept alive the very evil she sought to defeat.  For the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause it's spread."

A bit of obvious foreshadowing that I didn't pay enough attention to for it to occur to me in the rest of the episodes.

She did save his life in a later episode, right?  Getting him to the elves to heal his abdominal wound?

[crash_davis 23114]

9 hours ago, Augustus said:

So, I've begun a rewatch, and noticed in the first episode, when we cut away from Galadriel aboard the ship to Elrond and Gil-Galad, Elrond says that Galadriel has passed beyond his sight and that she was so certain her search would continue.

Gil-Galad replies:  "We foresaw that if she had, she might have inadvertently kept alive the very evil she sought to defeat.  For the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause it's spread."

A bit of obvious foreshadowing that I didn't pay enough attention to for it to occur to me in the rest of the episodes.

She did save his life in a later episode, right?  Getting him to the elves to heal his abdominal wound?

Not only that but introducing him to Celebrimbor who would create the Rings of Power. So Galadriel solely caused thousands of years of misery for Middle Earth. 

That's the story arc that the writers decided to go with. Incredible.