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The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Amazon Prime

Michael Knight

By Michael Knight
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Amos Moses
Amos Moses

Either way with regard to speculation whether it’s Gandalf or not, I don’t like half of these opinions half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of them half as well as they deserve.

MillerEP
MillerEP

They have Nuts.

AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

old school 1 sentence synopsis are great.  

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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On 3/16/2023 at 7:08 AM, crash_davis said:

Not only that but introducing him to Celebrimbor who would create the Rings of Power. So Galadriel solely caused thousands of years of misery for Middle Earth. 

That's the story arc that the writers decided to go with. Incredible.

 

No idea if any of this should be spoiler tagged, given the first series has been out for a while, but just in case:

Spoiler

The more I think about this (the "keeping alive the evil she sought to destroy" thing), the less sense it makes to me.

Yes, she got him to the elves to heal him.  But even if she hadn't and his physical body "died," it's not like he's really gone.  We learned later on that Adar straight up murdered him.  But here he is, however many years later, ramming a spear through Adar's hand and asking, "Do you remember me?"  So how could Galadriel keep alive an entity that can't really be killed by any conventional means?  My understanding is that the reason the destruction of the One Ring vanquished Sauron is that he'd poured his life force into that ring, so when Gollum fell into the lava and the ring melted, Sauron was done, right?

As for the introduction to Celebrimbor, Sauron is pretty resourceful, incredibly patient and really smart.  Seems to me he'd have arranged his introduction to Celebrimbor one way or another.  

The only thing I can hypothesize is that Galadriel putting the two together when she did is what alerted Sauron to the existence of the Mithril, which in this world is apparently the remnants of a lost silmaril, which is what allows the rings to possess the power they do.  But I don't even know if the One Ring (forged in the fires of Mount Doom) has any Mithril in it.

I will say, it's really interesting rewatching Halbrand throughout the episodes when you already know he's Sauron.  There are several scenes that hit very differently.

 

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bernorange

bernorange 8362

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Adar claimed he killed Sauron.  He may have thought he killed Sauron, but I didn't get the impression that he had ever confirmed that.  It's been a while, and my memory isn't crystal on this point, but I got a James Bond villian - I put James in a situation where certain death would come and walked away - kind of vibe from Adar's tale.  It's more that he expected Sauron must be dead than any actual proof that he perished.

 

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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Posted
4 hours ago, bernorange said:

Adar claimed he killed Sauron.  He may have thought he killed Sauron, but I didn't get the impression that he had ever confirmed that.  It's been a while, and my memory isn't crystal on this point, but I got a James Bond villian - I put James in a situation where certain death would come and walked away - kind of vibe from Adar's tale.  It's more that he expected Sauron must be dead than any actual proof that he perished.

 

He was definitely convinced he killed Sauron.

And when Sauron asked him, "Do you remember me?" it was obvious through not only that interaction but also a later one when Adar asked him, "Who are you?" that he didn't recognize Sauron in his current form.

But it doesn't matter.  You can't just "kill" Sauron like you would kill a mortal.

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freyguy

freyguy 4277

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1.  It's Gandalf.  He wrote that F-shaped rune in the dirt.  That's his rune.  He also put it on Bilbo's door in the Hobbit.

2.  Where do I find noodz of the albino naz-gal?  She has that extra layer of psycho cray that I am in to.

3.  So maybe the naz-gals coerced, or will coerce the blue wizards to head east?  Or maybe that was the original destination of the maiar?  

4.  Galadriel's failure to reveal Sauron is analogous to Gandalf's failure to discover the ring until it was almost too late.  Both of them go thru the same panicked turmoil once they realize it.

5.  Gandalf and Galadriel are supposed to be as close as platonically possible.  Will be interesting to see how that relationship develops.  So maybe Gandy at least gets a handy?  Sorry, I couldn't resist....

6.  Methinks Sauron will be captured when the Numenors try to overthrow Arda.  They bring him back as prisoner.  Then Sauron goes to work on Numenor's next version of Donald Trump, convincing him to attack the Valar.  Again, I'll be pissed if that earth-splitting scene doesn't live up to my expectations.

7.  The Dwarves are fucked.  The Hobbits are Hobbits.

8.  I wonder if we'll see Elrond marry, have sons, and then his wife murdered by orcs.

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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Posted

Well I finished the rewatch and as is often the case, liked it more the second time through.

Annatar means Lord of Gifts, right?  I heard/read that somewhere recently.

So, when Celebrimbor thanked him for suggesting they use an alloy to amplify the mithril's power, Halbrand said, "Call it....a gift."

I wonder how many other little references I missed not being fully read-in on all the history/lore.

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trza-hawk

trza-hawk 269

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Posted

I watched it by binging the series over a couple weeks. The whole thing felt tedious and pointless at the end. Not bad enough to tell other people not to watch it, but not good enough to really remember enjoying most of the time spent watching it. The art direction and other parts of the show just seemed uninspired, not very interesting.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, trza-hawk said:

I watched it by binging the series over a couple weeks. The whole thing felt tedious and pointless at the end. Not bad enough to tell other people not to watch it, but not good enough to really remember enjoying most of the time spent watching it. The art direction and other parts of the show just seemed uninspired, not very interesting.

You sure your'e in the right thread?

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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Posted (edited)

"The Harfoots, who may look like nice little Hobbits, but their society is built around making good time on an eternal road trip.  So they'll leave you to die in a ditch if you so much as twist an ankle."  😂

Holy fuck the character names!  😂😂😂

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I posted this on the other thread. But yea, doesn't seem good:

Only 37% of Americans who started streaming Amazon’s “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power” actually finished the series. Which, by the way, cost $500m+ to produce

Their loss 

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

I posted this on the other thread. But yea, doesn't seem good:

Only 37% of Americans who started streaming Amazon’s “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power” actually finished the series. Which, by the way, cost $500m+ to produce

 

I was disappointed to hear that, as well.  I'll be pissed if this series doesn't get finished.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11510

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

I posted this on the other thread. But yea, doesn't seem good:

Only 37% of Americans who started streaming Amazon’s “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power” actually finished the series. Which, by the way, cost $500m+ to produce

Does Bezos son like the show? That’ll make it or break it. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89698

Posted
Posted
On 4/12/2023 at 6:40 PM, Augustus said:

I was disappointed to hear that, as well.  I'll be pissed if this series doesn't get finished.

23 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Oh, it will get finished.  The amount of money and the Tolkien fan boi outcry decrees it will get finished.  I will cut a bitch.

It'll get finished - subsequent seasons won't cost as much since they'll be reusing a bunch of the expensive ass sets and effects works/models, which they mentioned that the first season would be expensive precisely because of that - the initial startup costs.  Same with Wheel of Time.  Each has a massive fanbase (overlapping as well) that will watch these over and over.

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bernorange

bernorange 8362

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Quote

... a report has gone out that has revealed that Amazon has gained rights outside of their initial deal with the Tolkien Estate. Originally, their deal allowed for the text written in the Lord of the Rings & the Appendices that only focused on the Second Age to be adapted to television (or streaming). Now, they have received permission from the estate to have two extra pieces of literature to be adapted for television/streaming. The streaming service now has access to all five of the Istari in their show. The five Istari included Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey, Radagast the Brown, and the two Blue Wizards. They also have access to state that they came to Middle-Earth sometime during the Second Age. ...

https://knightedgemedia.com/2024/02/amazons-the-rings-of-power-now-has-the-rights-to-all-5-wizards/

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WBT

WBT 20587

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Posted
4 hours ago, Rimbo said:

I didn't know the rights could be purchased a la carte

The Thomas Harris Hannibal series is like that too.  There have been series that can have Hannibal but not Starling and vice versa...the rights are broken out by character.  Seems like a way to get shittier adaptations but I guess the authors make more money that way in those cases.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89698

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45 minutes ago, WBT said:

The Thomas Harris Hannibal series is like that too.  There have been series that can have Hannibal but not Starling and vice versa...the rights are broken out by character.  Seems like a way to get shittier adaptations but I guess the authors make more money that way in those cases.

Same thing happened with Amazon and the Jack Ryan stuff and not being able to have John Clark in the series (instead having Matice), because of the Without Remorse film rights, although Amazon later purchased the distribution rights to the Without Remorse film, but it still didn’t give them the right to incorporate it/Clark within the Jack Ryan show.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11510

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15 hours ago, Hate said:

Yeah, I loved The Ring of Power, but I’m not one of the book dorks that is going to complain. I get it if you’re one of them, I’m just glad in this instance I am not one of them. 

The Silmarillion is an impossible read. I bailed on the audiobook. Just hours and hours of genealogy, similar to Matthew 1:2-16 in the Bible. 

Amazon adapting the text into an entertaining and somewhat reasonable to follow series is quite the accomplishment. I hope Bezos's kid enjoyed the show so they'll keep it going. 

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23113

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Posted (edited)
On 10/15/2022 at 9:52 AM, Biff Tannen said:

How does it contradict the films?

 

On 10/15/2022 at 10:16 AM, Augustus said:

I don't know that it contradicts the film but it definitely contradicts the canon, as Gandalf specifically stated he never ventured into the East.

The blue wizards, however, did.  That's one of the biggest reason Nerd of the Rings and Emergency Awesome believe he's a blue wizard.

Old discussion but I never replied. I was somewhat disappointed on how the season turned out so I checked out from this discussion thread. I didn't like how the writers took immense liberties with literature. 

I can't remember what I meant when I stated that if it is Gandalf, it would contradict later films. I was probably wrong in whatever thinking I had because the films do not address which Wizard came first.

However, most Tolkien experts believe Blue Wizards came to Middle Earth in the Second Age, which is when the events of this series happen. Gandalf and Saruman do not come to Middle Earth until the Third Age. This is why I am pissed it's Gandalf. 

Then I read this article which basically said the writers are fucking with the timelines.

https://www.gamesradar.com/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-timeline-second-age/

"When does The Rings of Power take place on the Lord of the Rings timeline?

The Rings of Power is set during Middle-earth's Second Age. This epoch spans nearly three and a half thousand years, with many of the series' events taking place around the middle of this period, circa SA 1500-1701. During this period, Celebrimbor starts the creation of the One Ring and the other rings of power after he's twisted unknowingly by Sauron – expect to see the rings in the show (as heavily hinted by the series' title).

However, those who know their Tolkein may wonder why characters who lived in a later period of the Second Age – like Elendil and Isildur – are also present. That's because the events in the show are also closer together compared to Tolkien's work as the timeline has been condensed. We know, for instance, that Isildur will cut off Sauron's hand around three and a half thousand years into the Second Age, thus bringing the Second Age to a close and starting the Third Age – we see this event take place in the prologue to Peter Jackson's movies.

Why condense the timeline? Realistically, if the show stuck to Tolkien's work exactly, only the Elven characters would be in every episode, as they're the race with the longest lifespans – hence why Galadriel and Elrond appear in both The Rings of Power and the movies, whereas other characters do not. 

Speaking to Total Film earlier this year, showrunners Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne explained how a non-linear series was considered, but that would have stopped the audience from emotionally investing in the show. Payne points out how plenty of real-life historical dramas do the same thing and says their guiding principle was respect for the "spirit and feeling" of the Second Age."

 

And then I read the below article from Bernorange post that the writers now have access to the stories of all the Wizards. That may explain why this wizard is Gandolf and not the Blue Wizards who would be more correct from a canon timeline. They wrote with what they had access to.

https://knightedgemedia.com/2024/02/amazons-the-rings-of-power-now-has-the-rights-to-all-5-wizards/

 

I'll keep my nitpicks to a minimum and try to enjoy this series. I just hope they quit trying to be clever and focus on writing great storylines and characters. Blaming Galadriel (saving Sauron and access to Celebrimbor) for 1000s of years of Middle Earth misery is already stupid enough.

 

 

Edited by crash_davis
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

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Posted
33 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

Old discussion but I never replied. I was somewhat disappointed on how the season turned out so I checked out from this discussion thread. I didn't like how the writers took immense liberties with literature. 

I can't remember what I meant when I stated that if it is Gandalf, it would contradict later films. I was probably wrong in whatever thinking I had because the films do not address which Wizard came first.

However, most Tolkien experts believe Blue Wizards came to Middle Earth in the Second Age, which is when the events of this series happen. Gandalf and Saruman do not come to Middle Earth until the Third Age. This is why I am pissed it's Gandalf. 

Then I read this article which basically said the writers are fucking with the timelines.

https://www.gamesradar.com/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-timeline-second-age/

"When does The Rings of Power take place on the Lord of the Rings timeline?

The Rings of Power is set during Middle-earth's Second Age. This epoch spans nearly three and a half thousand years, with many of the series' events taking place around the middle of this period, circa SA 1500-1701. During this period, Celebrimbor starts the creation of the One Ring and the other rings of power after he's twisted unknowingly by Sauron – expect to see the rings in the show (as heavily hinted by the series' title).

However, those who know their Tolkein may wonder why characters who lived in a later period of the Second Age – like Elendil and Isildur – are also present. That's because the events in the show are also closer together compared to Tolkien's work as the timeline has been condensed. We know, for instance, that Isildur will cut off Sauron's hand around three and a half thousand years into the Second Age, thus bringing the Second Age to a close and starting the Third Age – we see this event take place in the prologue to Peter Jackson's movies.

Why condense the timeline? Realistically, if the show stuck to Tolkien's work exactly, only the Elven characters would be in every episode, as they're the race with the longest lifespans – hence why Galadriel and Elrond appear in both The Rings of Power and the movies, whereas other characters do not. 

Speaking to Total Film earlier this year, showrunners Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne explained how a non-linear series was considered, but that would have stopped the audience from emotionally investing in the show. Payne points out how plenty of real-life historical dramas do the same thing and says their guiding principle was respect for the "spirit and feeling" of the Second Age."

 

And then I read the below article from Bernorange post that the writers now have access to the stories of all the Wizards. That may explain why this wizard is Gandolf and not the Blue Wizards who would be more correct from a canon timeline. They wrote with what they had access to.

https://knightedgemedia.com/2024/02/amazons-the-rings-of-power-now-has-the-rights-to-all-5-wizards/

 

I'll keep my nitpicks to a minimum and try to enjoy this series. I just hope they quit trying to be clever and focus on writing great storylines and characters. Blaming Galadriel (saving Sauron and access to Celebrimbor) for 1000s of years of Middle Earth misery is already stupid enough.

 

 

Agree. I was hoping against hope that the stranger would be a blue wizard. I wonder if they would do it differently with the access they have now. Oh well. I still like what they’ve done with it. 

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23113

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Posted (edited)

S2 stuff has been leaked. I won't give links as to not to make it easy for people to be disappointed. If the leaks are true, then people who are remotely versed in Tolkien are going to lose their fucking minds. Hoping it's all a joke.

In fact, the leaks are so fucking bonkers that one would have to believe Simon Tolkien hates his grand father and wants to ruin the legacy of his grand father's masterpiece.

Edited by crash_davis
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