Texas vs Oklahoma State @ 1 pm on ESPN2

[dcar00 14181]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

agree with everything in here. great points about Beard's mission to engage with the student body, and beyond that, to actually go to bat for them with the administration. also, the last line of this post is hilarious, and true. 

Beard is doing a very good job in the marketing dept and pushing the student engagement.  The Gregory Gym thing was a great idea.  He wants it to change and is putting in the work there.

[ztejas 43419]

3 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

This is exactly how I see it, but I’d like to add that this guy is the ideal guy for the off the court issues we have, too. 
 

He’s making Herculean efforts to get the students involved. There isn’t another coach in the country doing the stuff he’s doing. Abe Lemons coached an exciting brand of basketball and is one of the greatest wits to ever coach in any sport, but he would never have been bothered with engaging with the fan base like Beard. Penders had a bit of carny in him. When he came to Texas he would speak to any group who would have him trying to drum up excitement for the program. But he wasn’t capable of the kind of sustained organized onslaught to win over the students and fans that Beard is putting on.
 

Barnes did things behind the scenes, but he’s just not a rah rah guy. He had a different administration, and as much clout as he had, he didn’t have as much as Beard has with this one. He could never get Deloss and Co. to untie premium seating for season tickets from football donations. The best he could do fir the students was the seating behind the baskets and first come first serve there. Eventually he just kind of accepted the fact students would be treated as second class citizens, and that revenue came first, especially after he got the Cooley Pavilion, which really was a difference maker.

Now allegedly we’re going to have students 3/4s around the court. Season ticket holders have already been told they’ll have to give a separate donation for their basketball seating. We had the Gregory Gym game. The student party. The fireside chats. The various meets and greets. The celebrity fans. And he’s just so unrelentingly positive. Is he lying? Yeah, I think he’s full of shit. I have a rule that if someone has to tell me how much of a straight shooter they are over and over again, at some point you should realize they’re not actually a straight shooter. But I don’t care about unvarnished truth. I care about effectiveness. When he constantly shares his appreciation for the fans and how amazing they are, it’s exactly the right tone to take. 
 

This guy knows how to be effective in the ways he communicates to others. He knows how to attract people to him. He’s capable of identifying the qualities he wants to surround himself with to be successful. 
 

Okay, it’s not a juggernaut of a team. So what? The things they’re good at, they’re pretty damn good. I don’t understand why we can’t get excited to see how well they can do rather than trashing the team at every turn. I don’t blame people for getting frustrated. It can be a frustrating team to watch. But it’s a heck of a lot better than the Shaka show. I love watching our press conferences. Shaka made me vomit. 
 

I’m having fun following this team. Okay, I get not everyone feels the same way, but some of the unrelenting doom and gloom feels more like a reaction to collective fan trauma than an honest evaluation of what’s in front of us. I’m constantly having to figuratively look over both shoulders while reading this board thinking, “Am I crazy? How is everyone seeing a disaster when I’m not? Did I suddenly become an eternal optimist in my old age? Because if you ask me about Sarkisian and the football program, I don’t FEEL like an optimist.”

Anyway, you and I see eye to eye on this thing. Don’t know if that’s good or bad for either of us, but that’s how it is.  I guess it just means a lot of long interminable posts ahead for everyone else. 

You're barking up the right tree but take the word count down, amigo. Nothing you're saying needs the verbosity displayed. 

[someguy 1508]

11 hours ago, dcar00 said:

didn't he hurt his ankle late last game? or was that Bishop?

 

10 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

I remember clearly Disu going down because it Mack Brown scared me to death it was his knee.

I know this is long past but just on the off chance that you are genuinely curious, I double checked and confirmed it was Bishop.  I was at the KSU game and it happened right in front if me.  I found the tv recording just to make sure I wasn‘t crazy.  I’m glad Bishop doesn’t seem any worse for the wear.

 

[SL Xpress 7513]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

You're barking up the right tree but take the word count down, amigo. Nothing you're saying needs the verbosity displayed. 

Thanks for the reply. You're not the first to suggest it. I've been doing this a long time. The chances of me changing based on your request are zero. Thank you, though.

[SL Xpress 7513]

1 minute ago, someguy said:

 

I know this is long past but just on the off chance that you are genuinely curious, I double checked and confirmed it was Bishop.  I was at the KSU game and it happened right in front if me.  I found the tv recording just to make sure I wasn‘t crazy.  I’m glad Bishop doesn’t seem any worse for the wear.

 

 

Thank you for checking. I remember Disu going down on a different occasion. I apologize for sending you searching for this video evidence. I didn't remember this.

[dcar00 14181]

2 minutes ago, someguy said:

 

I know this is long past but just on the off chance that you are genuinely curious, I double checked and confirmed it was Bishop.  I was at the KSU game and it happened right in front if me.  I found the tv recording just to make sure I wasn‘t crazy.  I’m glad Bishop doesn’t seem any worse for the wear.

 

hmmm.  yeah it was Bishop.  strange that Disu only played 13 minutes.  Bishop played 24.

[ztejas 43419]

14 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Thanks for the reply. You're not the first to suggest it. I've been doing this a long time. The chances of me changing based on your request are zero. Thank you, though.

Doing what a long a time? Vomiting hundreds of words onto game threads explaining concepts that are already easily understood? 

Yeah - you're fucking crushing it, bro. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Doing what a long a time? Vomiting hundreds of words onto game threads explaining concepts that are already easily understood? 

Yeah - you're fucking crushing it, bro. 

Is crushing it my goal? But other than that, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I post a shit ton of words on threads about concepts that are easily understood. Been doing it on various forums for 25 years. It's not something I'm proud of. It's just my way of saying I don't see myself changing because of your request. Complaints about the length of my posts have always been a relatively common occurrence. I like longer, more detailed posts from others as well. That's all it is. You don't like it. Noted.

[ztejas 43419]

11 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Is crushing it my goal? But other than that, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I post a shit ton of words on threads about concepts that are easily understood. Been doing it on various forums for 25 years. It's not something I'm proud of. It's just my way of saying I don't see myself changing because of your request. Complaints about the length of my posts have always been a relatively common occurrence. I like longer, more detailed posts from others as well. That's all it is. You don't like it. Noted.

You're annoying and rely on a shtick. Noted. 

[Gut Wagon 8065]

Beard is just what we needed. He's a waaaay better coach than Shaka. But in the short term (all that matters to many fans), his over-hyped roster is playing rudderless offense while a coach who'd pass for the assistant principal from a bad 1980s teen movie has Tech not missing a beat. Adams is a great coach, and Tech has a really solid roster, but all that is lost on fans who assumed Beard would instantly shift the balance of power. It just will take time, especially since he's having to rebuild almost from scratch.

I suspect the impatience in part also stems from what's happening with football. Beard obviously has a far better track record than Sark, but at the first sign of trouble, the "PTSD" mentioned in this thread can seep into the psyche of Texas fans of every sport. No doubt some are wondering if Beard vs. Shaka really is any more of an improvement than Sark vs. Herman. I obviously wish both current coaches the best, but if I had to bet on one or the other, I'm going with Beard every time. 

[Revolution512 1487]

16 hours ago, MotownHorn said:

Wait. You mean to tell me that if you make more shots you tend to score more points?!?!? You should be a coach or TV analyst!

(pssst the problem is they can’t make any shots)

I’m talking about points 7th graders make. They definitely can make shots, some still lack the confidence and understanding 

[SL Xpress 7513]

10 hours ago, Gut Wagon said:

Beard is just what we needed. He's a waaaay better coach than Shaka. But in the short term (all that matters to many fans), his over-hyped roster is playing rudderless offense while a coach who'd pass for the assistant principal from a bad 1980s teen movie has Tech not missing a beat. Adams is a great coach, and Tech has a really solid roster, but all that is lost on fans who assumed Beard would instantly shift the balance of power. It just will take time, especially since he's having to rebuild almost from scratch.

I suspect the impatience in part also stems from what's happening with football. Beard obviously has a far better track record than Sark, but at the first sign of trouble, the "PTSD" mentioned in this thread can seep into the psyche of Texas fans of every sport. No doubt some are wondering if Beard vs. Shaka really is any more of an improvement than Sark vs. Herman. I obviously wish both current coaches the best, but if I had to bet on one or the other, I'm going with Beard every time. 

 

My thing is you can see what Beard has done already. At the end of the day tournament success or failure is the only metric that matters in college basketball. It's been that way since the expansion to 64 teams. But until that has been established by Beard at Texas, we can at least look at what he's done and form some kind of opinion based on that. derka did a great job of listing all the things that are entirely observable to see that Beard is already exhibiting traits at an elite level that could lead to the success we all want to see Texas basketball achieve. 

In terms of Beard versus Adams, I also don't think it has to be a zero sum game, thanks to the tournament. Personally, I'm more impressed with what Adams has achieved at Texas Tech so far this year than I am with Beard. That doesn't mean I think Adams is a better coach. But I did think Tech was in a worse position going into the season than Texas was, but they've had much better results than what I expected, while UT's results have been less than I thought they'd be. Doesn't mean I think Adams is a better head of a program than Beard, but I can witness and respect the job Adams has done so far without it taking away anything from Beard. Also, I'd point out that Beard is the one who identified Adams and his ability to coach to give Adams this opportunity in the first place. 

I'll go further in saying that the job the coaches around the Big 12 are doing are astounding. Otzelberger is number one. I consider his team's performance so far some kind of basketball miracle. Boynton has been tremendous, especially in light of losing Cunningham to the NBA, the one year post season sanction, and the recent win over Baylor in Waco. Bruce Weber, who I can't stand as a coach (I think he's whiny and weak) has done much better with his roster than I thought he would. I LOVE Parker Moser as a coach. That's such a terrific hire by OU. I don't think he's a better hire than Beard, but that guy is going to do great things at OU. I love watching him in press conferences. His comments after the loss to Texas were awesome. A no excuses coach who is able to identify and communicate issues, and who knows how to attract and teach players to play in a pretty complicated scheme.

Over the years I've spent a huge amount of time on other fan boards. One of the ones I've spent the most on is the KU HoopsTalk board. I consider it a shadow of its glory days back when it was independent. A lot of the serious conversation has gone premium, and I'm sure some of the fan base has split off to other forums, like what happens everywhere. That said, it's amazing how big of a segment of the fan base is constantly talking about who they'd want rather than Bill Self, or otherwise dream of who will replace him. There's pushback on this, but it still astounds me it's as active a topic of conversation as it is. Holy shit, I really like Chris Beard as a hire, but if I knew we had the opportunity to bring in Bill Self instead it's a no brainer. Along with Jay Wright and Mark Few, he's in a select group of coaches that I think of as top of the heap. Chris Beard is in a category just below this.

The point is every fan base has some grass is greener aspects to it, even if it's not universal. It's just how we are as human beings. And because we're intrinsically attracted to drama and conflict for evolutionary reasons, those type of conversations are going to tend to dominate over ones where there's not much difference of opinion.

So I accept that we'll continue to see disapproval in how Beard is doing so far. I'm just shocked at how negative and how varied the poster names are that are positing it. Along with the relentlessness. Mostly because I don't see it the same way. At all. It's not all lilies and roses, but holy cow the difference between Beard and Shaka is night and day for me. And that's just on the court. Off the court Beard is the best coach Texas has had for its endemic issues as a fan base and how that's manifested at the Erwin Center...ever. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

23 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Last year’s team had 3 NBA draft picks in our frontcourt, all of whom were elite athletes even by NBA standards, a four year starter at PG who is currently on the fringe between Sacramento’s G League and NBA rosters, and we were a team that returned its entire roster from the year before except for only 1 new freshman.

This year’s team likely has zero NBA players, substandard size and athleticism for a high level Big 12 program, everyone is brand new, and the coaches are brand new.  We should be worse than last year.  Last year’s team should have been really, really good in this era of college basketball.  And yet we are probably going to have about the same season this year.  That’s not a bad reflection on Beard, assuming we don’t collapse down the stretch.

 

There was a graphic (I believe from Bart Torvik) that compared the Texas roster last year to other rosters in years past. Almost every roster with similar talent and experience won a national title. 

I wish I was kidding. We didn't even win a tournament game. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

12 hours ago, Gut Wagon said:

I suspect the impatience in part also stems from what's happening with football. Beard obviously has a far better track record than Sark, but at the first sign of trouble, the "PTSD" mentioned in this thread can seep into the psyche of Texas fans of every sport. No doubt some are wondering if Beard vs. Shaka really is any more of an improvement than Sark vs. Herman. I obviously wish both current coaches the best, but if I had to bet on one or the other, I'm going with Beard every time. 

I was critical of Beard because I knew his offense wasn't going to be appealing to some but these discussions are hilarious to me. Since Beard became a head coach in D1 he's 10-4 in the tournament. Shaka is 0-3. 

The idea is to win in the tournament. 

Beyond impatience, it's just a clear misunderstanding of college basketball. Nobody gives a shit about anything other than March. If Beard wins just 1 game in the tournament the program is headed in a more positive direction. 

 

[texasstrong12 4668]

On 1/22/2022 at 6:12 PM, SL Xpress said:

I feel like we’re getting a good look at Beard’s formula already. Tough defense with players who can switch man to man. Efficient offense with low turnovers. Take plenty of charges. Be disruptive. I feel like future teams will have a better identity within the team, because this one is completely schizophrenic due to the nature of putting it together. Oh, and there will likely be a higher than average turnover from year to year. 

. 

I don't know about the future but this formula tends to win in March. 

This team is almost a mirror image of the Texas women's team last year that went 11-7 in the Big 12 which was a much weaker conference than it is men's basketball. That team made the elite 8 because the style of play translates when you get to March. I.e. defend your ass off and limit turnovers on offense. The big difference is people weren't bitching about Schaefer in year 1 because nobody watches WBB (lulz). 

My personal opinion, is Beard really doesn't give a shit about what other think about his style of play as long as it continues to work in the tournament. I'm not expecting any major changes until it doesn't work. Last year, Beard was 1 or 2 plays away from making his 3rd straight Sweet 16 with this exact same formula. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by texasstrong12

[Herpa Derpa 6125]

17 hours ago, ztejas said:

You're annoying and rely on a shtick. Noted. 

Forget it, Donnie, you're out of your element.

[texasstrong12 4668]

18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Btw, we’re turning the ball over 20 times a game recently, purely due to weak ball handling in most cases, and we are still either winning or taking teams down to the wire.  

In other words, we’re not even executing the Beard formula, at all really, we have no high level NBA prospects, and we’re still middle of the  pack in the best conference in the country and around top 25 overall.   It’s ugly to watch, but it’s actually pretty amazing how his defense grinds just about everyone down and keeps it close.  Rick Barnes is also a tough-minded defensive coach, but we still took a bunch of 30 point asskickings with him like the one Kentucky just gave Tennessee.  That doesn’t seem to happen to Beard, either at Tech or (so far) here no matter what his talent level is.

I suspect that’s going to translate well long-term, even if this year isn’t reaching out ceiling.  And in the short term, I have to think this team can stop turning it over so much.  They may not become dynamic on offense, but we don’t need NBA players at every position to just stop giving the ball away.

I think a lot of the turnover issues recently is simply because the Big 12 is loaded with good defensive teams. 

Oklahoma State is #7 in adjusted D (Kenpom) and #12 in defensive turnover %. They do that just to about everyone. There's a good chance Texas wouldn't play a defensive team of the caliber of about 70% of the Big 12 until the 2nd weekend of the tournament. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by texasstrong12

[texasstrong12 4668]

9/10 of the Big 12 teams are currently top 30 in adjusted D (Kenpom) and Kansas is #46. 

That's just stupid. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

28 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

I don't know about the future but this formula tends to win in March. 

This team is almost a mirror image of the Texas women's team last year that went 11-7 in the Big 12 which was a much weaker conference than it is men's basketball. That team made the elite 8 because the style of play translates when you get to March. I.e. defend your ass off and limit turnovers on offense. The big difference is people weren't bitching about Schaefer in year 1 because nobody watches WBB (lulz). 

My personal opinion, is Beard really doesn't give a shit about what other think about his style of play as long as it continues to work in the tournament. I'm not expecting any major changes until it doesn't work. Last year, Beard was 1 or 2 plays away from making his 3rd straight Sweet 16 with this exact same formula. 

 

I think there's a lot of investment in women's basketball at Texas. There'd be a lot more if Texas won at the level of South Carolina, Connecticut, or of course, Baylor. I remember the days under Jody Conradt when Texas was THE premier women's basketball program, that the women outdrew men. Not always, but regularly. I still don't fully understand why Gail Goestenkors didn't work out. I've heard it was Plonsky over involvement, but maybe it was just Mulkey overshadowed everyone. I really don't know the answer.

I'm thrilled to have Schaefer. It's interesting to me to see his staff turnover this past offseason after having so little over the years. What's also interesting to me is that he escapes in various ways Staley and Mulkey, only to be thrown right back into that kitchen. 

The rest of it, I'm right there with you. Beard is very convicted about his approach to the game. And frankly, that's what it takes. I remember hearing Van Gundy talk one time about the differences between successful basketball organizations and ones that aren't as successful. He used Popovich's Spurs to illustrate his point. He said that one of the biggest differences is that the successful ones find a formula that works and then don't doubt themselves. When they get hit in the face, they keep trusting the system and focus on doing things right on their end. They focus on the little things.

Beard has a lot of that in him. And frankly, I don't know that there's a better basketball mentorship than Bob Knight, whatever his flaws. It's interesting to me that Beard's best talent developer, Bob Donewald, is on the staff because of the connection with Bob Knight. Donewald's Dad was an assistant for Knight on the undefeated Indiana team, and later went on to be a head coach himself. Donewald's resume is impressive and varied for an assistant. He's not even a bench coach. He's just on the support staff, same as Ogden.

[SL Xpress 7513]

9 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

9/10 of the Big 12 teams are currently top 30 in adjusted D (Kenpom) and Kansas is #46. 

That's just stupid. 

 

The 10 Big 12 teams are all within the top 55 of Kenpom. TCU, OSU, and Kansas State bring up the rear at 46, 50, and 55.

The ACC has 5 teams in that same grouping. Duke at 10, Wake Forest at 34, Virginia Tech at 37, UNC at 43. and Florida State at 54. Also, Notre Dame, Miami, and Clemson come in at 57, 62, and 63. 

Put another way, the Big 12 has five teams ranked 32 and above. The ACC has one. Not to mention the Big 12 plays a round robin schedule, so there's no avoiding anyone, either. 

The level of coaching in this conference is unreal. And that's with 4 first year coaches.

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, SL Xpress said:

 

The 10 Big 12 teams are all within the top 55 of Kenpom. TCU, OSU, and Kansas State bring up the rear at 46, 50, and 55.

The ACC has 5 teams in that same grouping. Duke at 10, Wake Forest at 34, Virginia Tech at 37, UNC at 43. and Florida State at 54. Also, Notre Dame, Miami, and Clemson come in at 57, 62, and 63. 

Put another way, the Big 12 has five teams ranked 32 and above. The ACC has one. Not to mention the Big 12 plays a round robin schedule, so there's no avoiding anyone, either. 

The level of coaching in this conference is unreal. And that's with 4 first year coaches.

Yeah, I was having this discussion earlier. 

Boyton is being rumored at Louisville if they make a coaching change and he's 33-44 in the Big 12. It's just a brutal conference. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

41 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Btw, we’re turning the ball over 20 times a game recently, purely due to weak ball handling in most cases, and we are still either winning or taking teams down to the wire.  

In other words, we’re not even executing the Beard formula, at all really, we have no high level NBA prospects, and we’re still middle of the  pack in the best conference in the country and around top 25 overall.   It’s ugly to watch, but it’s actually pretty amazing how his defense grinds just about everyone down and keeps it close.  Rick Barnes is also a tough-minded defensive coach, but we still took a bunch of 30 point asskickings with him like the one Kentucky just gave Tennessee.  That doesn’t seem to happen to Beard, either at Tech or (so far) here no matter what his talent level is.

I suspect that’s going to translate well long-term, even if this year isn’t reaching out ceiling.  And in the short term, I have to think this team can stop turning it over so much.  They may not become dynamic on offense, but we don’t need NBA players at every position to just stop giving the ball away.

 

Beard made a point of emphasizing that in the his OSU post game press conference. He obviously wasn't happy about the turnovers, but instead of publicly railing on his players about what they didn't do, he chose to emphasize how resilient they were to pull out the victory anyway. And, of course, he credited Boynton and the OSU players for being a part of those 20 turnovers, too. Like texasstrong12 has implied, the Big 12 is tough defensively. OSU does that to everyone. They're 5th in the country in steals per game, and they're the leaders in the Big 12. They just beat Baylor in Waco, for chrissakes, in part because of 9 steals.

I'm with you completely here. I think as long as we limit our expectations for what this team can do to something realistic, while still allowing it's going to be frustrating to watch, it will allow us to appreciate what they are accomplishing, and hope they can improve in the games remaining.

[jimmyjazz 45903]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

I can’t find it at the moment, but I remember the exact graphic.  If anything, you’re underselling just how damning it was.  It had our roster rated higher than any team since the year UNC won the championship with Hansbrough, Ty Lawson, Danny Green, etc., all as juniors and seniors.  

Jeez, I'm glad I didn't see that at the time.  That's beyond depressing.  I just sorta figured we were a marginal Elite-8 team.

[jimmyjazz 45903]

56 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Put another way, the Big 12 has five teams ranked 32 and above. The ACC has one.

Yeah, but the ACC is the best college basketball conference.