Treatment of service workers

[closetohumping 17,442]

5 hours ago, huge said:

My grandmother was the worst to servers.  I was mortified by her countless times.  One time my dad had to tell his MIL to STFU in front of the extended family.

Mom and her sister and brother were all conditioned to stare off into space but something had to be done.

Bad times.

This but also how about gramma and grampa being cheap tippers. Crisp 5 spot will do the trick.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

On 1/23/2022 at 11:30 AM, Wiler77 said:

I've thought that many times.  They just introduce a chokepoint by making people order at the counter.  There has to be a reason they did it that way, though.  Maybe it's another level of complexity or cost to have the Alamo model?  Or worried they wouldn't have the waitstaff to handle ordering, running food, closing tabs, etc.

My wife has met several people that were managers at various restaurants in the Dripping area, and they said it's REALLY hard to get good cooks to want to work out in Drip, because they want to live in Austin.  The commute is too big of a hassle.  The consistency of food in the area suffers because of it.

Generally choke points like that are intentional.

Short staffed? Create a barrier to ordering so the kitchen isn't more overwhelmed.

EDIT- I see this point has already come up.

And yes we taught our kids to pay attention to how prospects treat service workers.

Edited January 25, 2022 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

17 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Good for her to stand up to the cheap tippers , but 25% tips ?  Yeah no unless you’re going way the fuck above the call of duty.
 

 I tip. 20% and cut waitstsfaff some slack even if the service isnt great especially during the COVID days  but 25%  ain’t  gonna happen at a local sports bar.

If you're occupying a table longer than the amount of time it takes to have your meal you're reducing the amount of money the staff can earn. Tip appropriately to that. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,101]

4 hours ago, closetohumping said:

This but also how about gramma and grampa being cheap tippers. Crisp 5 spot will do the trick.

My wife's late (rich) uncle was always in the $3 tip club.  Whenever he picked up one of our tabs for the two of us, I'd always try to offer to pay the tip.  Even if he refused my offer, a $10 or $20 bill would always magically end up on the table when we left it.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

9 hours ago, TurkeyChew said:

A lot of people forget, or don't know, but Anthony Bourdain's first break was publishing an unsolicited short to The New Yorker, which was a sort of abstract or outline for his break-out "Kitchen Confidential". I went and re-read it shortly after he died and he mentioned a few things that you back of the house workers and waiters are saying about the personality of someone who chooses to work in the food service industry:

and

and

 

I think it is known that I was a chef who became a stay-at-home parent nearly 25 years ago. That first quote reminds me of the sous chef that had 'yes chef' tattooed on his left forearm so he could just flash that to the head chef instead of replying.  We teased him about putting 'no chef' on his right forearm and his reply was, ' there is no no chef.'

 

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

18 hours ago, horn4life said:

I'll be honest I am an old guty that tells filthy jokes and make suggestive comments all the time, that ARE FUNNY!  The poor old pathetic bastards who are making pointed suggestive remarks to bartenders or waitresses, are simply fucking assholes.  Assholes that simply never were very good at the pickup game, and generally did not kick ass in the single sexual game.  To me it is more of a continuation of a lifetime of sexual failure... generation after generation of women have been subjected to it.

I was grabbing a drink yesterday afternoon and the old timer next to me (even more old timer than me) told the gal cleaning wiping down the table behind us that she "would look bettter with a smile on your face."  I turned laughing and said something along the lines of, "You should have just slapped the shit out of him!" and that indeed did bring a big grin to her face.

Don't be the creepy leering old guy that thinks the cute waitress wants or needs your banter.  They don't.  I do give a lot of female and male service workers advice.  But they are asking me, not me endlessly giving them unwanted advice.  The service industry is a tough one, long term for family and relationship success.  Over time more often than not the hours and temptation lead to strained personal relationships.  Some folks can pull it off, but in general I would tell most any person working in the service industry to find some other job long term. Simply as they will be happier.  

If the person you want to flirt or banter with can't tell you to fuck off with zero consequences to themselves whatsoever (whether that's you  possibly shorting the tip all the way up to them getting shit from a boss or disciplined), then you shouldn't flirt or banter with them.  The reason most assholes try that shit with service people is precisely because they know they are less likely to get told to fuck off and have their pride injured.  

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

9 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I think it is known that I was a chef who became a stay-at-home parent nearly 25 years ago. That first quote reminds me of the sous chef that had 'yes chef' tattooed on his left forearm so he could just flash that to the head chef instead of replying.  We teased him about putting 'no chef' on his right forearm and his reply was, ' there is no no chef.'

 

Not if you're having continual drinks at a decent rate.  The profit margin on cocktails is higher than meals.  I get the value of a table, but the work involved for bringing a drink is less than managing meals in the kitchen.

Now if it's happy hour prices for drinks I tip a bit more because the waitstaff is still working at their regular rate.  Often when we we'd hang at a bar to watch a game we'd trip a server up front, and say this is to show you we'll tip correctly so bring us your A game service. Typically more more was left after the bill was settled up.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

Interesting fact.  When congress enacted the Tip Credit amendment to the FLSA in 1966 - the minimum waiters could earn was $1.40/hour.  That's worth $11.69 cents today.  Instead of the $2 something they get.

[Macanudo 12,979]

12 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

If you're occupying a table longer than the amount of time it takes to have your meal you're reducing the amount of money the staff can earn. Tip appropriately to that. 

Bingo.    It drives me nuts when a restaurant is packed with people waiting and you see tables with people who are clearly done eating but are just hanging out while the waiter loses out on additional tips and other patrons are standing around without a seat.  

I waited tables in college and also delivered pizza.    It was amazing even back then (30 years) how shitty people are to waiters and staff.   You could usually spot the shitheads before they even sat down.

[huge 3,793]

16 hours ago, closetohumping said:

This but also how about gramma and grampa being cheap tippers. Crisp 5 spot will do the trick.

My grandmother tipped fine.  She didn't want anyone to think she was poor.  That would be much worse to her than people thinking she was rude.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Not if you're having continual drinks at a decent rate.  The profit margin on cocktails is higher than meals.  I get the value of a table, but the work involved for bringing a drink is less than managing meals in the kitchen.

Now if it's happy hour prices for drinks I tip a bit more because the waitstaff is still working at their regular rate.  Often when we we'd hang at a bar to watch a game we'd trip a server up front, and say this is to show you we'll tip correctly so bring us your A game service. Typically more more was left after the bill was settled up.

That goes to the owner and not the server.

The server is making $2-3 tip per drink at 20%,  are you ordering enough cocktails to equal the tips on apps, dinner, dessert, and a bottle or two of wine as that is what the server is thinking they are likely missing out on from a party camping at the table instead of a new party being sat at the table.  If they flip tables three times a night and guests camp long enough that that can only flip it twice that is taking 1/3 of that table's potential for the night from the server.

If your drink bill equals a dinner bill for the same amount of time occupying a table then no issue with that.

Edited January 25, 2022 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

13 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

If you're occupying a table longer than the amount of time it takes to have your meal you're reducing the amount of money the staff can earn. Tip appropriately to that. 

I ate at this Chinese restaurant in San Francisco. I can’t remember the name. Very popular, line out the door. Relatively small, nothing fancy, you’d share a table with strangers. If people tried to sit around chatting after their meal, the old lady would come and yell at them to get out so someone else could sit down. That place was awesome. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I ate at this Chinese restaurant in San Francisco. I can’t remember the name. Very popular, line out the door. Relatively small, nothing fancy, you’d share a table with strangers. If people tried to sit around chatting after their meal, the old lady would come and yell at them to get out so someone else could sit down. That place was awesome. 

Yeah there are places like that, one place we frequent has a sign right as you walk in

“EAT AND GET THE HELL OUT”

[mchookem 16,336]

i have noticed a lot of places in the time of covid have published similar type policies, not as explicit of course, but will have something on their menu or website along the lines of 'times are tough, we have to limit patrons, please try and limit your meal time to no more than 1 1/2-2 hours so we can serve as many people as possible' or something along those lines. 

[horn4life 3,760]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:30 AM, 956 Worldwide said:

If the person you want to flirt or banter with can't tell you to fuck off with zero consequences to themselves whatsoever (whether that's you  possibly shorting the tip all the way up to them getting shit from a boss or disciplined), then you shouldn't flirt or banter with them.  The reason most assholes try that shit with service people is precisely because they know they are less likely to get told to fuck off and have their pride injured.  

Correcto Mundo!

[horn4life 3,760]

19 hours ago, mchookem said:

i have noticed a lot of places in the time of covid have published similar type policies, not as explicit of course, but will have something on their menu or website along the lines of 'times are tough, we have to limit patrons, please try and limit your meal time to no more than 1 1/2-2 hours so we can serve as many people as possible' or something along those lines. 

The most disregarded sign ever at Enchiladas Y Mas...

[RPM 26,321]

On 1/24/2022 at 4:40 PM, closetohumping said:

This but also how about gramma and grampa being cheap tippers. Crisp 5 spot will do the trick.

Olds are the worst tippers ever. A group of 9 of us ate lunch at a Mexican cafe one day. One waitress for the table and she busted her ass. When the check came I said I got the tip and dropped a $100 on the table. My BIL's father almost stroked out. The fucker literally turned pale. Personally, I thought I was being on the cheap side.

[Nivek 16,930]

Two things per your post...
1.  The ONLY time I'd ever be pissed at a waiter is if I just see them yapping or playing on their phone.  Couple of years ago, we went to our local Mexican joint.  New waitress spent most of our meal on her phone.  I still tipped her 20% because, in my mind, she could have been dealing with something important.  Keep in mind - when you were 16-20, a lot of stupid shit seemed pretty important.
2. Your point about everyone working service at some time...  I have an engineering friend from TN that is the nicest, most generous guy.  That being said, his current job as an engineer is his first.  He's very cringe when we go out... snapping his fingers, waving across the restaurant, hitting on the waitresses in a very awkward manner, etc... He would def benefit from your call.

I knew a guy, also UTenn Alum, who grew up near me in Florida, his family had a pizza joint that I knew as a kid, and he worked there. Anyways, he was more curt/direct with waitstaff and had higher expectations of service from places in Knoxville.

It wasn’t that he was wrong, but he was kind of a dick about it. But whatever spit I got in my food, checking out his date was worth it. Found out that each of us would usually end up tipping more cause we figured he was tipping less.

I worked plenty of retail. Commercial folks are just as bad at times.

Nothing was as depressing as working with the elderly though. Hostile old fucks fist fighting over parking spaces was both hysterical and depressing. Old assholes challenging you to feats of physical prowess was another hoot. No, I don’t want to fight you and don’t care that you were in the Navy and boxed. I am 14 and I go to school during the week. Stop telling me to go to school so I don’t end up doing this my whole life. It is a part time job asshole. Go back to NY if you are so fucking miserable here.

[Nivek 16,930]

One of my former business partners was "that" guy when we went out to eat or have drinks.  He lived out in Lakeway and all his haunts out that way; but for a couple years, we shared an office downtown and I took him to a lot of my usual hangouts where I knew the staff and the staff knew me.  And almost without exception, he would hit on the waitresses and bartenders.  He was a generous tipper, but not enough to act like an asshole.  I still get the "where's your creepy friend this time?" question from a number of folks working downtown.  Don't be that guy, you'll end up the old dude at Twin Peaks hitting on girls 50 years younger than you---it's pathetic, demeaning, awkward, and just a dick move.  When female bartenders are smiling back at your creepy questions, they're not interested in you...they're just worried about making rent.  /rant

I am pretty sure older guys know they are not going home either with the girl. I figured that they are just tossing around money to act like a big shot for a moment more than anything.

[Nivek 16,930]

Ya think? I've had all kinds of jobs. I can say that the waiting tables/bartending segment of the workforce is one of the biggest groups of degenerates out there. All of this nonsense about how they're so hard done to and such honorable folk is fucking laughable. 
I bussed tables, waited tables, tended bar, sacked groceries, on and on. I'm still in a B2C service business and role. There is no "all people suck" premise if anyone who has done it is being honest. It's the usual mixed bag of the population. Most folks are okay, and then you have the outlier trash that everyone remembers until their dying day. 
My favorite job I've ever had was as a waiter at Pappasito's in Austin while paying my way through school. Great people, good money, stress-free coming and going while not on the clock. Nonetheless, I learned a ton across the span of the service jobs but enjoyed that one the most. Also, tons of UT and Texas State ass working alongside you and partying afterward. 
Nowadays, I get the occasional death threat with details about my (perceived) home address and family through my official company Twitter handle whenever the occasional psychopathic SJW loses it after being disconnected for non-payment. Some people do suck, but you don't actually see the worst of humanity as a busboy or waiter. 

Counterpoint: We never used to see people getting duct taped to a chair on airplanes or dragged off by their feet even 10 years ago.

Agree it is not a profession/job worthy of being placed on a pedestal though. But it is above wealth manager status and lawyer.

[abuelo gringo 321]

On 1/25/2022 at 10:33 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

I ate at this Chinese restaurant in San Francisco. I can’t remember the name. Very popular, line out the door. Relatively small, nothing fancy, you’d share a table with strangers. If people tried to sit around chatting after their meal, the old lady would come and yell at them to get out so someone else could sit down. That place was awesome. 

It was that way at Izzy's in Cincinnati.  Had a guy (local radio personality, I think) who would seat people anywhere there was room during the lunch rush.  He would try to keep couples and groups together.  Jokingly, but firmly would get you up and out when you were through.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

On 1/23/2022 at 8:57 AM, Wiler77 said:

I will FORCE all 3 of my sons to hold a job in the service industry.   good to learn the lesson of "people generally suck" as early in life as possible.

 

 

Do they have to learn it from dad?

[Celery Man 20,950]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:39 PM, Nivek said:

Counterpoint: We never used to see people getting duct taped to a chair on airplanes or dragged off by their feet even 10 years ago.

Agree it is not a profession/job worthy of being placed on a pedestal though. But it is above wealth manager status and lawyer.

I think this is at least part of the story of the service worker crunch happening now. 

[Snake Diggity 4,625]

On 1/23/2022 at 7:06 PM, Hook1997 said:

Worked at Chili’s as a waiter in college.  The after church crowd on a Sunday was always the worst, complain about anything, eat half the meal then try to get it comped, ect, it never failed.  

Yep.  One of the worst levels of hell I ever experienced was working Sunday lunch at Logan’s Roadhouse in San Marcos.  Fuck ALL those people.

I feel like all people should have to have some exposure to working in Hospitality (hotel/restaurant), Trades/construction, Healthcare, and Education.  All those people get disrespected on the reg and they pretty much do the most important jobs in the world.  Most of those jobs aren’t getting replaced by tech any time soon either, so we’d best start treating them better.  COVID has really accelerated the problems in restaurants.

Between waiting tables at 4 restaurants in 3 cities over a 12 year span, substitute teaching, working on military construction projects, and coming from a family with doctors and nurses, I always try to keep  perspective even when running into shitty service.  I can’t remember the last time I tipped less than 25% and most of the time it’s 30+.

[Litig8r 414]

Mandatory tipping?  https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/florida/articles/2022-01-08/restaurant-near-panama-city-beach-requires-a-20-service-fee 

 

[Litig8r 414]

and tipping on wine... https://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/the-answer-man-tipping-on-wine/

I tip on the total bill

[mooseoutfront 3,643]

I bartended/waited tables for about 5 years.  I had a lot of fun.  Most people were cool, but there are assholes everywhere.  I agree that the Sunday after church crowd were the worst, but the only person that I really remember was this old fuck stain who shook his empty glass of ice at me when I was weeded behind the bar on a Monday night during football season.  I ignored him and served everyone else but him.  I thought he was going to have a stroke.  I finally went over and explained to him that as the only bartender on shift that night I'm the last person in the world he wanted to piss off.  I am the drink God, and that he was now cut off and needed to leave.  He was speechless.  I would like to he learned something that night, but I doubt it.  

[Js1 85,339]

On 1/23/2022 at 7:06 PM, Hook1997 said:

Worked at Chili’s as a waiter in college.  The after church crowd on a Sunday was always the worst, complain about anything, eat half the meal then try to get it comped, ect, it never failed.  

What, you didn't enjoy your fake $20 bill that was actually a religious pamphlet?

Tip: $0.00
"God bless!"

[Guest]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:40 AM, RPM said:

Olds are the worst tippers ever. A group of 9 of us ate lunch at a Mexican cafe one day. One waitress for the table and she busted her ass. When the check came I said I got the tip and dropped a $100 on the table. My BIL's father almost stroked out. The fucker literally turned pale. Personally, I thought I was being on the cheap side.

The tab was about $180 without booze, right?

IDGAF what someone else tips, unless it's too low.  Your tip was generous, unless there were other factors. no need to freak out about it like he did.

Edited January 28, 2022 by slorch

[Deej 76,796]

 

[Knoxtnhorn 5,976]

On 1/24/2022 at 8:57 PM, DalTxHornFan said:

My wife's late (rich) uncle was always in the $3 tip club.  Whenever he picked up one of our tabs for the two of us, I'd always try to offer to pay the tip.  Even if he refused my offer, a $10 or $20 bill would always magically end up on the table when we left it.

Yep.  My wife's grandfather always took us out to eat when we visited.  His generation believe in $1 per person as the calculation, so $5 or so on a $100+ tab.  I'd always take a "restroom break" and explain the situation to the server and tip him/her appropriately.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,976]

Yes.  Post-Sunday church crowd was always the worst.  Olds and women over 40 were next.  I've heard black people were notoriously bad as tippers; however, I never saw it.  Largest tip I ever got as a percentage of the tab was from a black dude.  $80 on a $60 tab.  

[tigol 2,398]

50 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Yes.  Post-Sunday church crowd was always the worst.  Olds and women over 40 were next.  I've heard black people were notoriously bad as tippers; however, I never saw it.  Largest tip I ever got as a percentage of the tab was from a black dude.  $80 on a $60 tab.  

Yeah, it's mostly bullshit.  The white after church crowd is so much worse.  SO, so much worse.

I was a server at Spaghetti Warehouse one summer between UT semesters.  Never again.  I have nothing but respect for the folks in the service industry.  Every kid should have to go through that shit.

[Sam Lin 3,559]

5 hours ago, Litig8r said:

Mandatory tipping?  https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/florida/articles/2022-01-08/restaurant-near-panama-city-beach-requires-a-20-service-fee 

 

Tipping culture varies widely, especially once you get out of Western countries. In parts of Japan it is considered offensive to tip.

Thailand nicer restaurants typically put a 10% mandatory service charge on the bill. Supposed to go to the staff, generally does. You can tip on top of that but there is no expectation to.

For perspective, this is a country where tipping is not part of the culture, and is not percentage based. You tip staff 20thb each if you feel like it, and if you don't, no one is surprised or offended. If you're really generous you tip 100thb ($3). This is largely fixed rate and ignores the meal cost. When my US staff comes and tips 20%, my Thai staff jump them for tipping WAYYYYY to much.

Street stalls and home restaurants absolutely do not expect a tip, and I have had staff chase me down in the parking lot many many times to return the money I 'forgot' on the table. Home restaurants also feel that tips are to help staff, so if there are no hired employees (ie, only staff is the owner or family), the owners strongly reject tips.

[Guest Lobo]

14 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Yes.  Post-Sunday church crowd was always the worst.  Olds and women over 40 were next.  I've heard black people were notoriously bad as tippers; however, I never saw it.  Largest tip I ever got as a percentage of the tab was from a black dude.  $80 on a $60 tab.  

Yeah, that's a shitty rap that black folks have to endure...that they are bad/no tippers.  Every black person I've ever dined/drank with has tipped more than generous.  The absolute worse is a group of women over 35.  It's just painful to watch them split a check.  Just excruciating.  

I also think tipping might be a regional thing more than a socio-economic or demography situation.  No matter their financial means, I hear huffing and puffing from folks who see "17% gratuity added to..." on menus in Texas and Florida.  Lots of moaning and groaning when the check comes on how the waiter was and whether 10 or 12% is acceptable?  Whereas in much of the Midwest and Back East...20% is the baseline and you can go from there...

[closetohumping 17,442]

Waited on John Cornyn once.  Offered me a job or to at least chat about working for him.   I wasn't going to anyway, but my decision was validated when he left me 15%.

[closetohumping 17,442]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:11 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

Yes.  Post-Sunday church crowd was always the worst.  Olds and women over 40 were next.  I've heard black people were notoriously bad as tippers; however, I never saw it.  Largest tip I ever got as a percentage of the tab was from a black dude.  $80 on a $60 tab.  

Olds.  Teachers are pretty bad.