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The Dark Knight (2008)

ztejas

By ztejas
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ztejas

ztejas 43449

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I searched - I didn't find a designated thread. I know it's permeated plenty of related discussions. 

I'm watching this for the nteenth time and I'm sitting here while watching while repeatedly typing and deleting justifications and qualifications for what I'm about to say but - fuck it.

If this isn't in your short list of finest films of the 21st century you're a fucking dunce and pretty much just trying to be counter-culture for the sake of it. Or - maybe - you just don't understand film. 

On this latest rewatching I discovered a newfound respect for basically every micro-level of this project. Almost every deconstructed aspect is impeccable. It's actually astonishing how tight the entire thing is. The nit-pick that I've typically had is Maggie Gyllenhaal doing an at-best passable job and even then it barely detracts from an otherwise monumental accomplishment. 

The only thing I think you can even compare it to is the Peter Jackson LOTR trilogy. (and any of you are well within your right to dislike either)

Every shot is brilliant - captivating and chromatically in step with whatever shot is to follow. Every set - whether it's costume-designs or off-screen details or simply finding the right hue or backdrop is situated with ridiculous precision to craft one of the most believable, living and breathing fictional cities and sociological atmospheres ever put to screen. 

The visual editing, sound mixing and score are all phenomenal. It moves well - it sounds good when it does - and it keeps you on your toes the entire time. It's loud when it needs to be - it breathes when you need a breath - it makes you uncomfortable when you should be. 

The script works. The actors and -tresses pretty much nail it throughout. Heath Ledger provides one of the greatest performances anyone entering the business has ever hoped to provide. 

Off the screen - thematically - it seems to only get more relevant as time goes by. How ambiguous morality is. How fine the line is between order and chaos - between hero and villain. 

In a way I despise it - because I think there are a ton of people that worship this film that don't really understand it on the levels that it deserves to be understood.

But then I think about how everything comes full circle. About how the more I watch this film the more I recognize and appreciate the little details. And how those little details are ultimately what probably made so many millions of Americans and non-Americans fall in love with the picture in the first place. And so then - I guess I have to take a step back and reexamine the entire thing from afar. And how - at a macro, thematical level - it continues to present issues that manifest themselves in our society today. 

It's fucking brilliant. From the top down. From the bottom up. I'd encourage anyone that hasn't seen it in awhile to revisit it - and especially anyone that isn't fond of it to maybe place it under a more critical lens and really examine why you aren't a fan. Because I'd bet you're off on a few key points. And if you don't think you are - well, some folks don't like the Godfather, either. But give it a shot.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm full of shit. Pretty sure I'm not. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43449

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And actually - Maggie really drags the middle bit. God she sucks. Keep Katie and it's in contention for best film of all time. 

Also - to add to the list of societal issues - the film ends with a moral quandary of spying on every citizen using their cell phone. 

Yeah... this was almost 14 years ago. Oops.

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ztejas

ztejas 43449

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22 minutes ago, Parliament said:

The Prestige is better. 

Incorrect. In such a major way. 

1 hour ago, BigDHornfan said:

Hey OP,
what kind of edibles do you have and can you send some my way?
 

Really wasn't that high. Actually I wasn't high at all. 

18 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

The whole posts reads like it should start with “Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?”

Now we're getting somewhere...

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C-Man

C-Man 27227

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6 minutes ago, Parliament said:

And add in some Riddler. 

TDK is a great movie and very rewatchable.  One of the best comic book movies, and one of the best action movies.

But as far at plot, theme and acting, the Prestige is better.  Given the choice, I'll watch they one first.

In fairness to both, The Prestige is art and The Dark Knight is an elevated popcorn superhero movie. (I love The Prestige, as clever a movie as I've seen in the last 20 years.)

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mdmost

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3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Great movie, and overall trilogy. 

But Christian Bale's "Batman voice" always bugged me.  It came close to a speech impediment when he was shouting.  The "Batman voices" of Michael Keeton and Ben Affleck were much more subtle.

Batman voice always makes me think of this bit which was great.

 

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Reynolds Woodcock

Reynolds Woodcock 4740

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I am a proponent of taste being subjective and like what you like, but someone who says this

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

Or - maybe - you just don't understand film. 

and then follows it up with this

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

The only thing I think you can even compare it to is the Peter Jackson LOTR trilogy.

should have their IP address banned from any serious film discussion. And I saw Dark Knight multiple times in theaters and countless times since.

But I do give you credit for saying this

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

I don't know. Maybe I'm full of shit. 

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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14 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

I'm in the minority that doesn't care for it. I think Ledger is great but it's convoluted, disjointed, nonsensical, and has a lot of suspect acting by the rest of the cast. So, it is  basically like every other Nolan movie that came out after it.

 

 

There are five Nolan movies I enjoyed more than Dark Knight.  And four of them came after.

Dunkirk isn't nonsensical.  It's slow and you don't have to struggle to keep up.  I fucking loved Tenet because I didn't even try to keep up.

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Reynolds Woodcock

Reynolds Woodcock 4740

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5 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

There are five Nolan movies I enjoyed more than Dark Knight.  And four of them came after.

Dunkirk isn't nonsensical.  It's slow and you don't have to struggle to keep up.  I fucking loved Tenet because I didn't even try to keep up.

Not my favorite director, but:


1. Memento

2. Dunkirk (maybe 1. better every watch)

3/4/5: Prestige/Dark Knight/Inception

I also like Interstellar, though it’s not without its flaws. I’ve watched Tenet a few times.  I respect the effort but it’s a miss for me.

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aggie08

aggie08 21504

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11 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

I also like Interstellar, though it’s not without its flaws.

The good parts of Interstellar are so, so good that they almost mask the "love is the 4th dimension" bullshit. Almost. 

 

I also like Batman Begins better than Dark Knight as a cohesive, well-told, tight narrative. The Dark Knight is just a huge spectacle, both good and bad. It's always a great watch, but the end drags, and it suffers from one of my least favorite cliches of modern cinema: the brilliant protagonist/antagonist who is, literally, 17 steps ahead. The Joker knew he was going to be captured, knew Batman was going to interrogate him, knew the exact police response time so that they'd only be able to get to one of the tied up victims, knew his random henchmen with a tummy ache would get locked up near him, knew that he'd get one-on-one time with the hot-headed detective, knew the bomb would take out everyone but him, etc., etc. Leave that shit in bad heist movies. Still beats the ridiculous bomb clock in The Dark Knight Rises that stretched 2 minutes on the timer to like 13 on-screen minutes.

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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5635

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The good parts of Interstellar are so, so good that they almost mask the "love is the 4th dimension" bullshit. Almost. 
 
I also like Batman Begins better than Dark Knight as a cohesive, well-told, tight narrative. The Dark Knight is just a huge spectacle, both good and bad. It's always a great watch, but the end drags, and it suffers from one of my least favorite cliches of modern cinema: the brilliant protagonist/antagonist who is, literally, 17 steps ahead. The Joker knew he was going to be captured, knew Batman was going to interrogate him, knew the exact police response time so that they'd only be able to get to one of the tied up victims, knew his random henchmen with a tummy ache would get locked up near him, knew that he'd get one-on-one time with the hot-headed detective, knew the bomb would take out everyone but him, etc., etc. Leave that shit in bad heist movies. Still beats the ridiculous bomb clock in The Dark Knight Rises that stretched 2 minutes on the timer to like 13 on-screen minutes.

Gotham’s justice system was both corrupt and stagnant, and the reason Batman was necessary. Joker’s plans worked, because they showed you they worked in the opening scene. But does he really look like a guy with a plan?

He’s a chaos agent. It doesn’t matter if his plans work or not. But Batman thwarted his final plan (again showing his work) at the end not by killing him but by (almost) proving him wrong.

Greatest comic movie of all-time.
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Tom

Tom 2959

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On 1/27/2022 at 5:11 AM, ztejas said:

 Keep Katie and it's in contention for best film of all time. 

 

 

On 1/27/2022 at 7:29 AM, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

That’s a take you don’t hear often. 

 

15-year-old me thought she was great (and hot) in Disturbing Behavior.  Don't feel like testing how that movie held up.

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CooterBrown

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50 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


Gotham’s justice system was both corrupt and stagnant, and the reason Batman was necessary. Joker’s plans worked, because they showed you they worked in the opening scene. But does he really look like a guy with a plan?

He’s a chaos agent. It doesn’t matter if his plans work or not. But Batman thwarted his final plan (again showing his work) at the end not by killing him but by (almost) proving him wrong.

Greatest comic movie of all-time.

The problem is that everything he did requires precision planning and attention to detail.  An agent of chaos would just throw a bomb in the crowd and react to what happens.

Also, the stupid car bomb that goes off when you read a note that says "look up". WTF.

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Red Five

Red Five 40859

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Just now, Gene Parmesan said:

Agree on the first part, but she wasn't replaced because of her shitty acting, she actually declined the role.  

Huh. I read at some point that Nolan thought Holmes wasn't right for that material, specifically that death scene (spoilers). 

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aggie08

aggie08 21504

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1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:


Gotham’s justice system was both corrupt and stagnant, and the reason Batman was necessary. Joker’s plans worked, because they showed you they worked in the opening scene. But does he really look like a guy with a plan?

He’s a chaos agent. It doesn’t matter if his plans work or not. But Batman thwarted his final plan (again showing his work) at the end not by killing him but by (almost) proving him wrong.

Greatest comic movie of all-time.

Uh, ok. It's okay to admit that something excellent isn't perfect. The sequence I mentioned, while visually cool, was pretty eye-rolly. As was the surveillance technology that he knew was wrong, but he pumped billions into because he knew that, someday, the ends would justify the means once...but only once.

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Gene Parmesan

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23 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Huh. I read at some point that Nolan thought Holmes wasn't right for that material, specifically that death scene (spoilers). 

I thought I read somewhere that she didn't want to do it for scheduling reasons.  Maybe Nolan did replace her, but I doubt he'd want disjointed continuity across films like that.

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