winning time: the rise of the lakers dynasty. hbo in march.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

7 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Yep the 90s NBA of isolating 1 guy on one side of the court while putting the rest of the team on the other side so they could all collectively watch 2 guys play 1 on 1 for the entire game was a joy to watch.  Nothing like a 73 to 67 game to get the juices flowing.  

Ha yeah I think "quality" is really colored by your own experiences. Nothing will ever compare to the feeling of watching your favorite sport(s) when you were a kid, so (for most people at least) every sport was "better" when they were young.

Also - when remembering sports in the past, people only selectively remember the best parts - the best games, the big championship moments, etc.

In the NBA 80s example, everyone just talks about the Lakers/Celtics finals... nobody talks about a random Wednesday night game in February 1983 between Sacramento and Milwaukee. There were plenty of bad/unwatchable games in the 80s.... it's just nobody remembers them.

Edited March 8, 2022 by oSuJeff97

[C-Man 27,192]

31 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Yep the 90s NBA of isolating 1 guy on one side of the court while putting the rest of the team on the other side so they could all collectively watch 2 guys play 1 on 1 for the entire game was a joy to watch.  Nothing like a 73 to 67 game to get the juices flowing.  

The game wasn't necessarily beautiful in parts as it transitioned from the 80's into the 90's but it was when I cared the most. Back end of Bird/Magic, the PIstons "Bad Boys" and then Jordan. Players like Malone/Stockton (cocksuckers) and Hakeem and friends in Houston. The Admiral in SA, Ewing in NY and great teams in Phoenix and Portland. The 80's were the best, though. Celtics-Lakers, the Bucks were really good and you had Dr J and the Sixers (those Sixers-Celts Sunday Afternoon on CBS games were always a treat). The game flowed really well in the 80's and a moribund, drug-addled league came of age. I love(d) it.

[Underdog 28,581]

33 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Ha yeah I think "quality" is really colored by your own experiences. Nothing will ever compare to the feeling of watching your favorite sport(s) when you were a kid, so (for most people at least) every sport was "better" when they were young.

Also - when remembering sports in the past, people only selectively remember the best parts - the best games, the big championship moments, etc.

In the NBA 80s example, everyone just talks about the Lakers/Celtics finals... nobody talks about a random Wednesday night game in February 1983 between Sacramento and Milwaukee. There were plenty of bad/unwatchable games in the 80s.... it's just nobody remembers them.

Jokes on you, bud.  There was no nba in sac town, they were still in KC. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

17 minutes ago, C-Man said:

The game wasn't necessarily beautiful in parts as it transitioned from the 80's into the 90's but it was when I cared the most. Back end of Bird/Magic, the PIstons "Bad Boys" and then Jordan. Players like Malone/Stockton (cocksuckers) and Hakeem and friends in Houston. The Admiral in SA, Ewing in NY and great teams in Phoenix and Portland. The 80's were the best, though. Celtics-Lakers, the Bucks were really good and you had Dr J and the Sixers (those Sixers-Celts Sunday Afternoon on CBS games were always a treat). The game flowed really well in the 80's and a moribund, drug-addled league came of age. I love(d) it.

The 80s was my favorite version of the NBA but as for the 90s and early 00s, outside of Jordan, the basketball was horrible. The ball and player movement of today's NBA so far surpasses the 25 years prior to it in terms of beauty and fun basketball that it's not even funny.  

As for "Winning Time" I've been looking forward to this ever since the notice went out. This show is going to be so good.  I still remember Magic announcing he had "attained" the HIV virus like it was yesterday. I was a freshman in high school and came home early for a little bit prior to going back to catch the team bus for our freshman football game. That shit shook me and marked the end of my childhood in terms of innocence. His announcement hit me hard.  Magic was my favorite sports figure at that time in my life and an HIV diagnosis meant his death was imminent through my adolescent eyes.

[henrygandorf 29,189]

for anyone wondering (like i was) how the lakers got the #1 pick while having a good team:

Quote

The Lakers had acquired a first-round pick in the 1979 NBA draft from New Orleans when the Jazz signed Gail Goodrich as a free agent before the 1976-77 season. That pick turned out to be the No. 1 overall selection when the Jazz finished with the league's worst record in 1978-79.

 

[henrygandorf 29,189]

also can we talk about the significance of that coin flip?  if chicago gets the first pick and takes magic, the nba is changed forever in a variety of ways.

[utxmike05 1,828]

51 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

also can we talk about the significance of that coin flip?  if chicago gets the first pick and takes magic, the nba is changed forever in a variety of ways.

Gummy coin should be framed in the Laker’s office.  That was so random and unorganized for a pro sport.  Should haven just been Rock Paper Scissors best of 3, or game of PIG between teams. 

[henrygandorf 29,189]

6 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

Gummy coin should be framed in the Laker’s office.  That was so random and unorganized for a pro sport.  Should haven just been Rock Paper Scissors best of 3, or game of PIG between teams. 

when i was watching the 86 mets docuseries, i started wondering how the astros had the homefield advantage in the nlcs even though the mets had won 108 games or some shit.  figured it must be some alternating nonsense, which it was, but there was also a scheduling conflict with an nfl game so they just flipped it.  i was only 10 at the time (and went to game 6) but i don't know if there was any drama or outcry about it.  

can you just imagine mickey mouse shit happening like that these days?  twitter would melt down.  the 70's/80's were the wild west.

[atomheartbevo 89,628]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

The game wasn't necessarily beautiful in parts as it transitioned from the 80's into the 90's but it was when I cared the most. Back end of Bird/Magic, the PIstons "Bad Boys" and then Jordan. Players like Malone/Stockton (cocksuckers) and Hakeem and friends in Houston. The Admiral in SA, Ewing in NY and great teams in Phoenix and Portland. The 80's were the best, though. Celtics-Lakers, the Bucks were really good and you had Dr J and the Sixers (those Sixers-Celts Sunday Afternoon on CBS games were always a treat). The game flowed really well in the 80's and a moribund, drug-addled league came of age. I love(d) it.

It feels like there were a lot more personalities, and those personalities were tied more closely (loyal?) to their teams/cities, to the point the teams took on the personality of the team (and vice versa).  Like the Pistons were perfectly suited for Detroit, and the two just went together well, LA was perfectly suited for Magic/Lakers, Bird was perfect for Boston, Jordan/Chicago, Hakeem/Houston, etc.

Now it feels a lot more mercenary with the biggest personalities, like "oh shit, this guy is really good, he's not going to stick around, somebody will pay a shitload for him when his contact is up!".

I know that some will say "well, you had rose-colored glasses when you were a kid" and I've made similar complaints about NASCAR losing its biggest personalties of the 80s/90s to retirement/death and leaving us with non-personalities for the most part, but I think there is some validity to it.

All of these organizations, and don't get me started on MLB or the NFL, it feels like the stars stuck around for a lot longer in years past.  Now if somebody gets really good, it's just a waiting game for the fans until that person ends up somewhere else.

[C-Man 27,192]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

It feels like there were a lot more personalities, and those personalities were tied more closely (loyal?) to their teams/cities, to the point the teams took on the personality of the team (and vice versa).  Like the Pistons were perfectly suited for Detroit, and the two just went together well, LA was perfectly suited for Magic/Lakers, Bird was perfect for Boston, Jordan/Chicago, Hakeem/Houston, etc.

Now it feels a lot more mercenary with the biggest personalities, like "oh shit, this guy is really good, he's not going to stick around, somebody will pay a shitload for him when his contact is up!".

I know that some will say "well, you had rose-colored glasses when you were a kid" and I've made similar complaints about NASCAR losing its biggest personalties of the 80s/90s to retirement/death and leaving us with non-personalities for the most part, but I think there is some validity to it.

All of these organizations, and don't get me started on MLB or the NFL, it feels like the stars stuck around for a lot longer in years past.  Now if somebody gets really good, it's just a waiting game for the fans until that person ends up somewhere else.

There's something to that. LeBron jumping ship to Miami started the whole super-team bullshit, which I absolutely hate. And I'm admittedly scarred from the Kawhi/Uncle Dennis fiasco that led to him leaving the Spurs. I don't like 35-40 3-point shots per night per team either.

[utxmike05 1,828]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

There's something to that. LeBron jumping ship to Miami started the whole super-team bullshit, which I absolutely hate. And I'm admittedly scarred from the Kawhi/Uncle Dennis fiasco that led to him leaving the Spurs. I don't like 35-40 3-point shots per night per team either.

Fuck Kawhi.  #stillhurtalso

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

5 hours ago, C-Man said:

LeBron jumping ship to Miami started the whole super-team bullshit

It started before that with the “Big 3” of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen in Boston. LeBron witnessed that firsthand and straight up quit on his Cavs team in one of their playoff games against the Celtics. It sucks that the ownership didn’t do more to surround him with decent talent. But soon he was out the door and took his talents to Miami. But it started in Boston.

[lateshow 1,304]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It started before that with the “Big 3” of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen in Boston. LeBron witnessed that firsthand and straight up quit on his Cavs team in one of their playoff games against the Celtics. It sucks that the ownership didn’t do more to surround him with decent talent. But soon he was out the door and took his talents to Miami. But it started in Boston.

This is correct. Funny how people seem to just forget that happening. 

[Underdog 28,581]

11 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

when i was watching the 86 mets docuseries, i started wondering how the astros had the homefield advantage in the nlcs even though the mets had won 108 games or some shit.  figured it must be some alternating nonsense, which it was, but there was also a scheduling conflict with an nfl game so they just flipped it.  i was only 10 at the time (and went to game 6) but i don't know if there was any drama or outcry about it.  

can you just imagine mickey mouse shit happening like that these days?  twitter would melt down.  the 70's/80's were the wild west.

Shit was even wilder in the NFL back in the 70s.  An undefeated Dolphins team had to play a Divisional round in Pittsburgh.  In ‘73, the Vikings were 12-2 but 10-4 Dallas hosted NFCCG. 

[C-Man 27,192]

5 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It started before that with the “Big 3” of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen in Boston. LeBron witnessed that firsthand and straight up quit on his Cavs team in one of their playoff games against the Celtics. It sucks that the ownership didn’t do more to surround him with decent talent. But soon he was out the door and took his talents to Miami. But it started in Boston.

 

1 hour ago, lateshow said:

This is correct. Funny how people seem to just forget that happening. 

I would argue that the situations aren't exactly the same. Allen and Garnett were acquired via trade several days apart. Pierce was drafted by the Celtics. The Heat was a straight-up poaching of two All-NBA players in Lebron and Bosh deciding they were going to create an NBA/AAU squad and buy seven titles.

[usmc0331horn 953]

White dudes of a certain age really hate the modern NBA. I love it. It's the best it's ever been imo as a whole. I also absolutely loved the nba of the 80s and 90s jumping on both the Celtics and Bulls bandwagons not having a team in the KC area.

[utxmike05 1,828]

NBA has sucked (to me) in past years because the teams change every year.  Kinda why I don't follow college basketball as much bc you never have the same team for more than a year.  NBA Players change teams way too often and pretty much run the league.  My Spurs not being what they used to be plays a little part, but because all these players want the big city and such.  I still root for other teams (with players that aren't divas, which is hard to find).  /notanoldwhiteguy

[henrygandorf 29,189]

the height of nba to me as a fan my age was the all-star game in the mid 80's.  it was basically akeem + the lakers vs all the big stars of the league.  jordan, bird, barkley, dr j, isaiah, etc. 

my favorite game of that era was probably the 1987 game where ro blackman hit the 2 big free throws while shouting at the ball, right after isaiah was fucking with him and magic was shoving him out of the way.  i can still see dr j shaking his head on his way back to the bench, like, well, here we go, overtime.  a mostly unknown tom chambers went all fucking crazy in his home arena and the west won (which seemed rare at the time).

i'm sure there is video that i'm too lazy to search for and don't want to taint my perfect memory.  haven't much cared about the nba in a couple decades.

[utxmike05 1,828]

19 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the height of nba to me as a fan my age was the all-star game in the mid 80's.  it was basically akeem + the lakers vs all the big stars of the league.  jordan, bird, barkley, dr j, isaiah, etc. 

my favorite game of that era was probably the 1987 game where ro blackman hit the 2 big free throws while shouting at the ball, right after isaiah was fucking with him and magic was shoving him out of the way.  i can still see dr j shaking his head on his way back to the bench, like, well, here we go, overtime.  a mostly unknown tom chambers went all fucking crazy in his home arena and the west won (which seemed rare at the time).

i'm sure there is video that i'm too lazy to search for and don't want to taint my perfect memory.  haven't much cared about the nba in a couple decades.

Back when NBA stars entered the dunk contest...

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Times change, I have love/hate relationships with the same teams over multiple eras.

Loved the Showtime lakers

Then I loved the Spurs.

Hated the Derrick Fisher 2004 Game 5 .4 seconds / Kobe Lakers with a fiery passion, to the point that I had to give up a resentment when Kobe got killed.

[utxmike05 1,828]

Just now, BearSchlong said:

Times change, I have love/hate relationships with the same teams over multiple eras.

Loved the Showtime lakers

Then I loved the Spurs.

Hated the Derrick Fisher 2004 Game 5 .4 seconds / Kobe Lakers with a fiery passion, to the point that I had to give up a resentment when Kobe got killed.

Gah damnit why you gotta mention DF...that name is not allowed to be spoken in front of me. 4 ev. er

[BearSchlong 8,083]

3 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

Gah damnit why you gotta mention DF...that name is not allowed to be spoken in front of me. 4 ev. er

Just remember the joyous glee when the Spurs did punk the Lakers in the playoffs and it'll even out.

[Deej 76,755]

I enjoyed the hell out of the first episode. The era covered is when I fell in love with the sport.

The breaking the fourth wall stuff was fine. It allows them to explain some things much more quickly and it wasn't too over the top. 

[C-Man 27,192]

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Just remember the joyous glee when the Spurs did punk the Lakers in the playoffs and it'll even out.

Y'all remember who closed the fucking Forum out don't ya?

[henrygandorf 29,189]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

Y'all remember who closed the fucking Forum out don't ya?

andrew dice clay?

[huge 3,793]

andrew dice clay?

Unbelievable…

[C-Man 27,192]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

andrew dice clay?

 

[henrygandorf 29,189]

going next month so…

[Francisco 2.0 32,389]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:47 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

It started before that with the “Big 3” of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen in Boston. LeBron witnessed that firsthand and straight up quit on his Cavs team in one of their playoff games against the Celtics. It sucks that the ownership didn’t do more to surround him with decent talent. But soon he was out the door and took his talents to Miami. But it started in Boston.

 

The difference here was 2 of those 3 were traded to Boston, vs superfriends just texting each other at all hours of the night dreaming/scheming of ways to get together.

Sam Presti traded Allen on draft day in exchange for the 5th pick (Jeff Green).  Also involved in that trade was Delonte West and Glen Davis.  

Now, Garnett probably isn't interested in coming to Boston if Allen isn't there with Pierce, but it eventually happened.  Boston gave up 5 players and 2 first round picks (7 for 1, which was the largest number of players traded for a single player in league history).  And the Garnett trade broke some new ground for the league:

Spoiler

He and McHale once again agreed on a deal: Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes and two first-round picks for KG.

Once again, Ainge saved the Celtics!

But once again, there was a problem.

This time, it was money. As in, KG made a ton. He’d just wrapped Year 3 of a five-year/$100M deal. That’s not much in today’s NBA, but back then KG and Shaq were the only guys making $20M a year. It was a tough match for Boston. Ratliff’s expiring $11.6M deal was the only contract of substance. Jefferson, Telfair, Green and Gomes made less than $8 million dollars combined.

To make matters worse, KG had a trade kicker. That’s like a relocation bonus. A contract clause that requires increasing a player’s salary in the event of a trade.

Long story short, the Celtics structured a deal that would work under the cap, assuming Garnett waived a portion of his trade kicker. Garnett agreed, and the Celtics turned to the only other sticking point in the negotiations. An extension. A legally binding assurance that Garnett was in for the long haul. And . . . another problem.

That’s because, as stated in the CBA, a player is not allowed to waive his trade kicker and immediately sign an extension with the team he was traded to. Otherwise a player could waive the kicker, and just get paid back on the other end. That’s cap circumvention. Against the rules. And that left the Celtics facing a few difficult facts:

1) They couldn’t trade for Garnett unless he waived his trade kicker.

2) They wouldn’t trade for Garnett without an extension.

3) If Garnett waived his kicker, he was ineligible for an extension.

It became clear that if Boston wanted Garnett, there was only one way to get it done.

* * *

To be clear: The Celtics didn’t unlock the Da Vinci Code in pulling off an extend-and-trade for Garnett. It was a known clause in the CBA. In theory, it’s not that complicated. Team B negotiates an extension with a player on Team A. Team A signs the player to that extension, then trades him to Team B. In this case, it had just never been done before. As evidence by the last few paragraphs, it takes special circumstances for an extend-and-trade to even come into play. It takes a player with a massive contract, who is eligible for an extension, getting traded to a team without the salaries to match.

In 10 years since the KG deal, there’s been only one other extend-and-trade. The Knicks used it to get Carmelo Anthony from Denver. But the point is, in the few billion years before the KG trade, the extend-and-trade had never been done. And it wasn’t easy.

Have you ever read a contract? A lease? An iTunes “Terms of Service” agreement? They’re tedious. Wordy. Full of mind-numbing legalese.

People write those things. As assistant GM and legal counsel, Mike Zarren writes the Celtics contracts. He was doing it back in 2007. He still remembers the call from Danny Ainge, after Kevin McHale finally said yes. He remembers sitting down to write KG’s contract and realizing what he was up against.

“Usually you can call the NBA and say, ‘Hey can you send over an example of something like this?’” Zarren said. “And you can copy it. Or modify it. But in this instance, there was no such thing.”

Not to mention, the wording in the clause had never been interpreted before. The extend-and-trade only existed in theory. The Celtics were drafting the first ever physical extend-and-trade amendment, and that meant a ton of back and forth with the league, looking for rulings on various language.

This would’ve been stressful under any circumstance, never mind as part of the biggest trade in at least the last 20 years of an NBA franchise.

* * *

Once the details were ironed out, the contract went to KG’s people for approval. From there, it went to Minnesota. They just had to sign it.

The Celtics were almost home.

But first, in the wee hours of that late July morning, the phone rang.

It was Minnesota, with a question about the contract.

Call it a concern.

The Wolves didn’t have cold feet.

They’d just never seen a deal like this before.

No one had.

They just wanted to be sure.

“Hey there’s no way we get stuck with this, right?”

“It just looked a little spooky for them to see a contract that said Kevin Garnett and Minnesota Timberwolves,” Zarren said, laughing. “It was weird for me to write a contract that said Minnesota Timberwolves.”

He directed them to a clause at the end that stated the contract was invalid unless traded to the Celtics within 48 hours.

“Well what if the trade happens but then he fails his physical . . . Isn’t that more than 48 hours?”

It wasn’t so easy, but by the end of the conversation, both sides were satisfied. The Wolves signed the deal. There was an official trade call with the league.

 

 

 

 

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Watched the first episode again and then watched the HBO sports documentary about Bird and Magic.  I had completely forgotten about how those two basically saved the NBA.

So the scenes where they describe Bird as "hard working" (WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE) and Magic as "Flashy" (BLACK BLACK BLACK BLACK) - They weren't as over the top as I first thought.  Apparently Boston and their fans were more racist than I realized.

Goddamned those two could pass the rock.  There was a scene where they were playing in an USA Basketball game between college and the NBA where the no look passing was just epic.

[BearSchlong 8,083]

14 hours ago, C-Man said:

Y'all remember who closed the fucking Forum out don't ya?

I'd forgotten that was the game when Jaren Jackson hit some clutch shots.  His son and my daughter were in the same preschool class at the JCC in San Antonio and I just realized that kid has been in the NBA for 4 years now.

Edited March 10, 2022 by BearSchlong

[C-Man 27,192]

32 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Watched the first episode again and then watched the HBO sports documentary about Bird and Magic.  I had completely forgotten about how those two basically saved the NBA.

So the scenes where they describe Bird as "hard working" (WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE) and Magic as "Flashy" (BLACK BLACK BLACK BLACK) - They weren't as over the top as I first thought.  Apparently Boston and their fans were more racist than I realized.

Goddamned those two could pass the rock.  There was a scene where they were playing in an USA Basketball game between college and the NBA where the no look passing was just epic.

Jerry Buss/John C. Reilly isn't lying. NBA interest was floundering in the late 70's. The impression was that it had become too "black" and was just dripping with drugs. Let's be honest here, it probably only reflected America as a whole coming out of the 60's/Vietnam and heading into the cocaine/disco days ahead.

And, yes, Boston was definitely thought of as racist-as-fuck up until not all that long ago. That was always the narrative when comparing the Yankees to the Red Sox and their racist-ass fans.

[C-Man 27,192]

3 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I'd forgotten that was the game when Jaren Jackson hit some clutch shots.  His son and my daughter were in the same preschool class at the JCC in San Antonio and I just realized that kid has been in the NBA for 4 years now.

He hit a lot of clutch shots that season and during that first title run.

[bullzak 416]

I think when Magic was drafted the NBA playoffs were on tape delay in a lot of cases. Just imagine that now. 

[WBT 20,561]

How was it that Bird wasn't in the draft and had already signed with the Celtics?  They had right of first refusal on all white guys?

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,559]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

How was it that Bird wasn't in the draft and had already signed with the Celtics?  They had right of first refusal on all white guys?

The draft rules allowed a team to draft a player in his 5th year after high school graduation, which Bird was at that point because he went to Indiana originally but transferred his first year to Indiana State. The Celtics had the time between the end of his college season to sign him, otherwise he would go back into the draft. It was a huge risk for the Celtics, if he didn't sign they would end up with nothing for the prior year's draft pick.  Bird, even though already drafted, stayed to play his senior/5th year at Indiana State and took them to the college championship and lost to Magic.  

As to the show Winning Time, I finally watched and quite enjoyed it even though I hate the Lakers more than anything. I really enjoyed the Roger Murdoch/Airplane scene and Kareem telling the kid off after he asked for a picture with him.  I hated all of these Laker players and Riley growing up so it’s weird to watch this without nearly as much hatred towards them as I used to have.

As to the other NBA topics in this thread, the Celtics Big 3 was nothing like the Heat.  They were all actually older/very close to past their prime type players in Garnett, Pierce and Allen.  The Heat put 3 of the Top 10 players in the league at the time together.  I grew up a Celtics fan as my whole family is from Boston but I actually grew up in Miami so I have been a Heat fan since their first season.  I actually liked Lebron when he came to the Heat (as a fan of the team would) and didn’t blame him for leaving the Cavs as they never put a good team around him.  That being said, I hate Lebron for leaving Miami the way he did.  His PR folks made it all about going home but the truth was he saw Wade and his injured knee and the whole team aging and realized he couldn’t win more there so he went back to the Cavs who had a budding super star in Kyrie and the #1 pick which he knew would be traded for Love.  Love at the time was considered a top young PF in the league.  Once Love injured his back and Kyrie was injury prone he bailed on Cleveland and went to LA to try and form another super team with Unibrow.   Lebron is one of the greatest ever but the multiple moves to a better situation is not a good look to me.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

14 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Watched the first episode again and then watched the HBO sports documentary about Bird and Magic.  I had completely forgotten about how those two basically saved the NBA.

So the scenes where they describe Bird as "hard working" (WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE) and Magic as "Flashy" (BLACK BLACK BLACK BLACK) - They weren't as over the top as I first thought.  Apparently Boston and their fans were more racist than I realized.

Goddamned those two could pass the rock.  There was a scene where they were playing in an USA Basketball game between college and the NBA where the no look passing was just epic.

The Celtics as an organization weren't racist at all (the city of Boston,,..well that's another story). Red Auerbach was just a super early adopter of finding market inefficiencies. In the 50s and 60s that market inefficiency was with black players. In the 80s it happened to be with how white players were valued. Had Auerbach lived long enough I imagine he would've been an early adopter of seeking out global talent.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

2 hours ago, WBT said:

How was it that Bird wasn't in the draft and had already signed with the Celtics?  They had right of first refusal on all white guys?

Bird was in college an extra year after transferring from Indiana to Indiana St so he technically didn't graduate on a 4 year timeline. Back then there was some sort of loophole where teams could draft a player as long as he was 4 years out from high school even if said player didn't declare for the draft (There goes Red Auerbach with his Belichick like ability to take advantage of obscure rules). So Bird was actually drafted in 1978 while Magic was drafted in 1979, however both guys entered the league the same year (1979-1980 season). 

[henrygandorf 29,189]

[WBT 20,561]

Interesting, so Bird was a draft and follow.  I never knew that.  MLB had a similar rule up until about 10 years ago.

[C-Man 27,192]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:14 PM, henrygandorf said:

andrew dice clay?

Speaking of Dice Clay, wife and I were watching the penultimate episode of Pam & Tommy Lee last night and I asked my wife if she recognized who the mafia/loan shark/bookie guy was. "Who is it?" she asked. "It's Andrew Dice Clay," I told her. Blank stare. She was unfamiliar with Dice Clay. She's turning 42 in May and has no clue who Andrew Dice Clay is. I told her and then recited the "Hickory Dickory Dock" joke and she was ever-so-slightly repulsed, I think. 🤷‍♂️

[henrygandorf 29,189]

7 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Speaking of Dice Clay, wife and I were watching the penultimate episode of Pam & Tommy Lee last night and I asked my wife if she recognized who the mafia/loan shark/bookie guy was. "Who is it?" she asked. "It's Andrew Dice Clay," I told her. Blank stare. She was unfamiliar with Dice Clay. She's turning 42 in May and has no clue who Andrew Dice Clay is. I told her and then recited the "Hickory Dickory Dock" joke and she was ever-so-slightly repulsed, I think. 🤷‍♂️

my wife is 33 and she obviously had no idea.  i tried to explain who he was and what he did and about halfway through i was like, nevermind, he was a comedian.

she was like, what?  who's ford fairlane?

[South Austin 52,454]

Did your wives not see A Star is Born?  He was really good in that.

[C-Man 27,192]

9 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

My cousins gave me a bunch of old sports cards back in the late 80's. I was mainly a baseball card snob at the time, knowing they were usually worth much more money than football or basketball cards. At any rate, mixed up in the box that they gave me was this Magic/Bird rookie card. Unfortunately, they'd separated it into three pieces by cutting along the dotted line with scissors, making it virtually worthless. Oh well ...

[henrygandorf 29,189]

 

[4th&Five 41,516]

“It reeks like a gym sock farted.”

[Upgrayedd 5,810]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:53 AM, henrygandorf said:

my wife is 33 and she obviously had no idea.  i tried to explain who he was and what he did and about halfway through i was like, nevermind, he was a comedian.

she was like, what?  who's ford fairlane?

Ford Fairlane is an underrated flick

[Firemans4Horn 18,034]

“Aw, yeah it’s on my list. Assalamu alaykum”

 

😂 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

11 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

“Aw, yeah it’s on my list. Assalamu alaykum”

 

😂 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Eskimohorn 5,630]

Directed by Jonah Hill. Not bad.

Maybe Cookie should have settled for Al Bundy (the shoe salesman)