winning time: the rise of the lakers dynasty. hbo in march.

[Drew 2404]

Man another reason this show works is that they literally can pull any celebrity from that time period in and be totally believable(rather they actually were there or not).

Of course Jack is around...but Pryor? Iman too?  I had no idea she was with Spencer before Bowie.

[Guest]

Jack McKinney can't even Hodor right now...

[henrygandorf 29189]

On 4/11/2022 at 8:46 AM, TrashMaster G said:

*Emmys

 

i'm a prickly bastard about grammar, but losing your shit over this type of apostrophe misuse is especially bitchy.

sorry to interrupt the got nonsense.

[TrashMaster G 17551]

26 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm a prickly bastard about grammar, but losing your shit over this type of apostrophe misuse is especially bitchy.

sorry to interrupt the got nonsense.

The gif was a joke.  Hardly losing my shit.  More like rolling my eyes over the rampant stupidity. 

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

The gif was a joke.  Hardly losing my shit.  More like rolling my eyes over the rampant stupidity. 

i wouldn't even call it rampant stupidity.

yes, the correct usage is emmys.  emmy is a made-up word and an ~abbreviation.  there are plenty of times when awkwardness or abbreviations can force plural apostrophes.  general spelling or you're/your/dominant/dominate nonsense is still a way bigger problem imo.  and more annoying.

[Eskimohorn 5633]

The gif was a joke.  Hardly losing my shit.  More like rolling my eyes over the rampant stupidity. 

emmies

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm a prickly bastard about grammar, but losing your shit over this type of apostrophe misuse is especially bitchy.

sorry to interrupt the got nonsense.

especially for people like me post on an iphone which incessantly changes correct grammar/punctuation/syntax to something totally and frustratingly wrong. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:

emmies

ME's

 

[MrBig 5386]

This guy is Coach Tark? I feel old as shit.

[Deej 76756]

You are. 

[henrygandorf 29189]

4 hours ago, MrBig said:

This guy is Coach Tark? I feel old as shit.

you’re only as old as you feel. 

[AUS-97HORN 11757]

if you take  nothing else from this episode...

 

fuck boston.... lol

[Js1 85297]

1 minute ago, AUS-97HORN said:

if you take  nothing else from this episode...

 

fuck boston.... lol

Should have let the British burn it to the ground 

[Js1 85297]

The crowd comments were hilarious 

[Eskimohorn 5633]

Best thing I’ve seen on tv since early season Game of Thrones

[HornOnTheBayou 8919]

2 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

Best thing I’ve seen on tv since early season Game of Thrones

As soon as I saw that, I thought, "Yep, that'll be a meme." I guess the producers planned that.

[Deej 76756]

So, are they just going to gave Westhead coach one season? Didn't he get fired in his third year as the Lakers coach? Seems like they are going to have Riley replace him before the end of the season. 

[TrashMaster G 17551]

"Paul Revere shoulda slept in. Let the British burn this fuck-hole to the ground."

🤣

[henrygandorf 29189]

taking some liberties with the schedule it seems. and the game ending and score.

[atomheartbevo 89630]

3 hours ago, Deej said:

So, are they just going to gave Westhead coach one season? Didn't he get fired in his third year as the Lakers coach? Seems like they are going to have Riley replace him before the end of the season. 

I doubt they’ll fuck with it that much, but they could take season 2 and have it cover two seasons.

We really need Adrien Brody’s Pat Riley as the head coach.   

[utxmike05 1828]

Every episode is better than the previous...damn that was fun.

[Upgrayedd 5810]

7 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

taking some liberties with the schedule it seems. and the game ending and score.

A little.  They were 12-4 in December and played Boston at home.

[FartingMonk 3606]

I don't know why but the Kareem orange juice bit just cracks me up.  Magic does all kinds of shit to try to make the orange juice and Kareem shits on him.  His girl makes it out of concentrate and water and he doesn't say shit and just drinks it.  I laughed my ass off.

[Js1 85297]

8 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

taking some liberties with the schedule it seems. and the game ending and score.

 

45 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

A little.  They were 12-4 in December and played Boston at home.

It's a dramatization, not a documentary. 

They played Boston at home in December and won.  Their road swing woe was actually a 5 game stretch in January where they went 3-2 - they beat Indiana and Detroit and Boston and lost to Milwaukee and Washington. 

They didn't even play on Christmas Day in 1979 (played on December 26 in Kansas City) 

Their road game in Boston was won on free throws and a missed shot to tie by Byrd.  Magic played 21 minutes in that game because of a groin injury.   LA was leading by 3 after the third Q (77-74). 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

52 minutes ago, Js1 said:

 

It's a dramatization, not a documentary. 

They played Boston at home in December and won.  Their road swing woe was actually a 5 game stretch in January where they went 3-2 - they beat Indiana and Detroit and Boston and lost to Milwaukee and Washington. 

They didn't even play on Christmas Day in 1979 (played on December 26 in Kansas City) 

Their road game in Boston was won on free throws and a missed shot to tie by Byrd.  Magic played 21 minutes in that game because of a groin injury.   LA was leading by 3 after the third Q (77-74). 

I bet you're fun at parties.

[Js1 85297]

4 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

I bet you're fun at parties.

Meh, idc if they're fudging details to make it more interesting.  I'm enjoying it a whole lot.  A whole episode basically about how Boston is a huge fucking shit hole and portraying how big of a shit head their fans are - 100% awesome in my book.  However you gotta do it. 

[henrygandorf 29189]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

 

It's a dramatization, not a documentary. 

They played Boston at home in December and won.  Their road swing woe was actually a 5 game stretch in January where they went 3-2 - they beat Indiana and Detroit and Boston and lost to Milwaukee and Washington. 

They didn't even play on Christmas Day in 1979 (played on December 26 in Kansas City) 

Their road game in Boston was won on free throws and a missed shot to tie by Byrd.  Magic played 21 minutes in that game because of a groin injury.   LA was leading by 3 after the third Q (77-74). 

the show is fantastic. real life version seemed plenty compelling. just strange the stuff they end up changing around. 

game was tied and won on free throws 100-98. cowens missed a potential game-tying shot. what they showed wasn’t really better than that. 

they beat indiana and detroit. i got no problem with taking license, but it should be for a reason. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

23 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the show is fantastic. real life version seemed plenty compelling. just strange the stuff they end up changing around. 

game was tied and won on free throws 100-98. cowens missed a potential game-tying shot. what they showed wasn’t really better than that. 

they beat indiana and detroit. i got no problem with taking license, but it should be for a reason. 

I love the show. I really do. And I have no problem with them taking artistic license. But what is a little off putting to me is how crazily historically accurate they are with some things and then they just say, "Fuck it, let's just make some shit up." For whatever reason, I have a difficult time reconciling it as I watch the show. It's not really impacting my ability to enjoy it, but I constantly find myself saying, "Wait a minute... that's just not how things went down."

I don't think Westhead was ever close to being fired, at least not that first season. They pretty much won at the same clip pre- and post-McKinney. That whole scene of Riley making Westhead cry in the shower.... that has got to be complete bullshit. Are they setting up Westhead getting canned before the playoffs and Riley taking over? To me, that's taking it a bit too far, but at some point it's like watching a Marvel movie where you are better off just suspending belief and going with it, I guess.

But what did actually happen with Westhead, Magic, Riley, West and Buss, was way better drama. Here is a re-telling of it:

Quote

Cut to: November, 1981.

Even though it's early in the season, all is not well in Laker Land. They are only two years removed from their last NBA title, but the previous season ended in playoff disappointment, and as a result, the head coach (Paul Westhead) has put in a new, more methodical and structured offense. But early returns are not positive: The offense seems constrictive, boring, with not enough fast breaks. Despite a star-studded roster littered with future Hall of Famers, the team loses its first few games, and fans and players are grumbling.

(Sound familiar?)

And in the front office, owner Jerry Buss is not only grumbling, he's fuming. After an opening night loss, he mutters, "What's going on? I just don't like this." He begins asking a lot questions about Westhead's offense: to his players, his general managers Jerry West and Bill Sharman, and to Westhead himself. He didn't like the answers.

So Buss decides, and quickly. After only nine games, he informs West and Sharman that he's going to fire Westhead. Crucially though, he agrees to Sharman's request to "give it a week" before making it public, while they sniff around for a replacement coach.

Two games later, it all blows up. Magic Johnson, already clashing with Westhead's restrictive style, snaps after the coach yells at him during a late timeout. The Lakers win, but Magic trudges to the locker room and shocks the sports world by publicly requesting to be traded.

Buss, of course, would sooner trade his own limb than Magic—and he's already decided to axe Westhead. Knowing, unfortunately, that Magic will get the heat for this, Buss fires Westhead the next day.

Melodrama ensues. Magic is immediately vilified, because to the public it appears he's essentially fired his own coach. Sports aren't supposed to work like this.
But before people can even assimilate that, before the season-long cascade of boos are directed at Magic, even by his own fans, before Los Angeles Times columnist Jim Murray, the dean of American sportswriters, calls Buss "an unfit owner," before the avalanche of letters to the editor denouncing Magic as a spoiled, temper tantrum-throwing egomaniac are printed ... the Lakers have to, you know, pick a new coach.

Hastily, Buss debates his options with Sharman and West. They want Westhead's assistant, Pat Riley, who had never coached at any level before two years ago. Buss is unsure, worried that Riley would be in over his head. In fact, Buss wants West to coach the Lakers, and says that if he does, Riley could stay on as his assistant co-coach, or something, and West can slowly turn the reins over to Riley. Or not. The details are fuzzy for everyone. West kind of agrees, but leaves that meeting thinking that Riley is the head coach, and West will be the sort-of assistant. So West offers the job to Riley, who accepts ... and is flabbergasted hours later at the press conference as Buss announces Jerry West as the Lakers' coach. West strides to the podium, and immediately makes his own announcement: Riley is actually the coach, and he, Jerry West, will be working for Riley. Now it is Buss's turn to be flabbergasted. Confusion reigns. As the press conference breaks up, writers and TV reporters literally don't know who the coach is.

Turns out it's Riley. And suddenly the Lakers play faster, easier, and rip off 17 wins in the next 20 games. Showtime is back, and the L.A. fastbreaks all the way to the NBA championship, the first of four titles that the previously unknown Riley will win in the next seven years, on his way to becoming a basketball legend.

 

[SizzleChest 8283]

46 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the show is fantastic. real life version seemed plenty compelling. just strange the stuff they end up changing around. 

game was tied and won on free throws 100-98. cowens missed a potential game-tying shot. what they showed wasn’t really better than that. 

they beat indiana and detroit. i got no problem with taking license, but it should be for a reason. 

It had to suit the show narrative built around Westhead shriveling up like George Burns' balls.  

Westhead was actually kicking ass and was not getting outcoached.  So, it seems it was more of the 'total invention' variety drama.  It's the most egregious diversion from reality in the show yet.  Sure, they can make Jerry West look like a miserable wreck, but there was a grain of truth in that.  When you start changing demonstrable facts to suit your show narrative, it should be for a really good reason.  And, to your point, I'm not sure the display of Westhead as meek and inept was a good enough reason.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Re: Bird in the press conference.  I'm assuming that was made up?  Was Bird really that brash, and was he really a tobacco chewer?

[Deej 76756]

30 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Re: Bird in the press conference.  I'm assuming that was made up?  Was Bird really that brash, and was he really a tobacco chewer?

yes

[utxmike05 1828]

1 hour ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Re: Bird in the press conference.  I'm assuming that was made up?  Was Bird really that brash, and was he really a tobacco chewer?

I had no idea what kinda player Bird was as far as talk (didn't watch NBA until mid90s and even then it isn't televised and talked about like today w social media)...so I hit the googles after seeing last night's ep.  There are LOTS of player interviews talking about how he was one of the best trash talkers...not dirty shit, but just good trash talk about your gameplay vs his, watch this show, etc.

One per Gary Payton:

"Bird used to tell me 'Look here man. I'm gonna go shoot this muthaf*cking jumper in your face right there in that corner. And it's gonna be your Christmas present. I'm gonna wrap it up and bust your head open.' All that sh*t. He was the coldest dude I've ever seen with that sh*t man. Everybody be talking about these great greats and we always mention him, he was the sh*t. He give it to you any way he wanted to. Larry Bird was cold. Cold dude man, real cold."

Edited April 18, 2022 by utxmike05

[henrygandorf 29189]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I love the show. I really do. And I have no problem with them taking artistic license. But what is a little off putting to me is how crazily historically accurate they are with some things and then they just say, "Fuck it, let's just make some shit up." For whatever reason, I have a difficult time reconciling it as I watch the show. It's not really impacting my ability to enjoy it, but I constantly find myself saying, "Wait a minute... that's just not how things went down."

great post (not just the part i quoted).  but the part i quoted is where i find myself.

it's not odd that they're pinpoint accurate with some stuff and not on others, but it is odd how and which they decide to dramatize.  like i said, the way it played out on the court was plenty dramatic, and that's the type of stuff viewers love to research and factcheck themselves, which makes it a curious decision.  even the decision to make it a 98-97 game at the end instead of 98-98 is strange to me.  maybe they didn't want to show nixon being the hero or maybe they thought free throws weren't dramatic enough?  the way they showed cooper's shot was so specific i went to look up video, and yeah, no.

as for the behind-the-scenes stuff like westhead getting pressure from west and possibly buss, with elgin on standby, that stuff doesn't bother me at all, because it's not really verifiable.  sure, you can read articles and interviews, but in no way can we verify one way or another what somebody felt or said behind closed doors.  we've already seen west's erratic behavior after stepping down - i don't think it's a stretch that he was paranoid about his replacement (or in this case, his replacement's emergency replacement).  he was all about his legacy, and rightfully so.  if he quit and realized later that he cost the team a chance at a title, he would be pissed.  i'm fine with all that.

also it's not a bad thing to show westhead having a crisis of confidence - those things happen and again are not completely verifiable.  in fact, they could've done that without showing them losing games they clearly didn't lose.  he was a nervous, inexperienced dude completely out of his element around kareem, magic and a bunch of other personalities.  he could be overwhelmed and still scrape out wins because of talent.  the dynamic between riley and west and westhead and mckinney has been masterfully done - i wouldn't change a thing.

but as for the game stuff, the schedule, the win/losses - it 100% does not affect my enjoyment, i just think it's interesting the things they chose to alter and why.  maybe it's the writer in me, but writing is about choices.  the ones you make and especially the ones you don't.  i question structure, narrative strategy, and especially sequence. 

the scene with kareem and earv sr was fucking great.  solomon hughes is absolutely crushing it.  but that could've happened in january like in real life.  it didn't need to be christmas.  and they were on a 5 game road trip ending with boston.  in fact, they had 2 losses on that trip, but they were not indiana and detroit.  they beat indiana and detroit on that same trip.  the real life was so so close, but altered for reasons beyond me.  maybe they just needed to show him lose in detroit.  whatever.

also the comment about "first road trip magic, watch the groupies, wrap it up" was odd considering they were clearly several weeks into the season.  again, they could've showed that comment happen a couple episodes ago.

[utxmike05 1828]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Also, even though it’s all been public knowledge for 30 years that Magic Johnson fucked everything that moved for a decade+, I bet he still HATES this show.  He had pretty much remained a good guy popular ambassador for sports in the broader pop culture after the HIV diagnosis - all the networks had him on the studio show at some point even though he’s bad at it, he even got his own late night talk show, etc. - but all the women I know who watch this show fucking hate him now.  Personalizing the womanizing and making Cookie such a major character aren’t doing Magic any favors, especially in today’s climate.

Agreed he probably isn't a fan of that part of the show.  Like did they have to write in the part where we see Riley stops just Magic while boarding the plane to remind him to wrap it up...?  Foreshadowing n shit 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

46 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

I had no idea what kinda player Bird was as far as talk (didn't watch NBA until mid90s and even then it isn't televised and talked about like today w social media)...so I hit the googles after seeing last night's ep.  There are LOTS of player interviews talking about how he was one of the best trash talkers...not dirty shit, but just good trash talk about your gameplay vs his, watch this show, etc.

One per Gary Payton:

"Bird used to tell me 'Look here man. I'm gonna go shoot this muthaf*cking jumper in your face right there in that corner. And it's gonna be your Christmas present. I'm gonna wrap it up and bust your head open.' All that sh*t. He was the coldest dude I've ever seen with that sh*t man. Everybody be talking about these great greats and we always mention him, he was the sh*t. He give it to you any way he wanted to. Larry Bird was cold. Cold dude man, real cold."

I knew he was cold and ruthless, but I didn't realize the chewing, crude swearing, etc.  (if that is true)

[Deej 76756]

11 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

I knew he was cold and ruthless, but I didn't realize the chewing, crude swearing, etc.  (if that is true)

It's true. He was a pretty heavy drinker, too. Barkely said Bird drunk him under the table once. 

[TrashMaster G 17551]

53 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Also, even though it’s all been public knowledge for 30 years that Magic Johnson fucked everything that moved for a decade+, I bet he still HATES this show.  He had pretty much remained a good guy popular ambassador for sports in the broader pop culture after the HIV diagnosis - all the networks had him on the studio show at some point even though he’s bad at it, he even got his own late night talk show, etc. - but all the women I know who watch this show fucking hate him now.  Personalizing the womanizing and making Cookie such a major character aren’t doing Magic any favors, especially in today’s climate.

I'm guessing Magic is depending on this to counteract the bad pub from Winning Time:  https://tv.apple.com/us/show/they-call-me-magic/umc.cmc.67518fzfnhcjcajidzbpff8i5?ctx_brand=tvs.sbd.4000&ign-itscg=MC_20000&ign-itsct=atvp_brand_omd&mttn3pid=Google AdWords&mttnagencyid=a5e&mttncc=US&mttnsiteid=143238&mttnsubad=OUS2019946_1-587051327253-c&mttnsubkw=133846203549__rPaVQfX2_&mttnsubplmnt=

 

 

[Hate 20107]

I don’t get the bad press bullshit. He was a young, single, and rich athlete in the 80’s. Most of us would have done the exact same thing. Too many people want to be judgmental instead of realistic.

[utxmike05 1828]

26 minutes ago, Hate said:

I don’t get the bad press bullshit. He was a young, single, and rich athlete in the 80’s. Most of us would have done the exact same thing. Too many people want to be judgmental instead of realistic.

Yup and you can get away with a lot more back then...nobody worried about tech, cell phones, cameras, etc tracking or catching them. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

52 minutes ago, Deej said:

It's true. He was a pretty heavy drinker, too. Barkely said Bird drunk him under the table once. 

LOL yes. It was in that Dream Team documentary and it was hilarious.

"Larrah Burd kept giving me Buudweisa beers.... I never been so hungover in my life..."

[AUS-97HORN 11757]

58 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

I knew he was cold and ruthless, but I didn't realize the chewing, crude swearing, etc.  (if that is true)

every single star of the 80s who is still alive to tell, flat out says Bird was the absolute KING of shit talkers, #1 hands down.

and that he backed it up pretty much every single time.  

I laughed at the scene"Kasey Studdard-esque (we are going in this hole and Vince is gonna score and you cant do anything about it)"

where Bird told the guys he was gonna fake right roll left and drain a 12 footer on them... does it, and says, "shit that was closer to 13 there"

thats exactly the kind of trash talk everyone associates with Bird.

[Deej 76756]

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

43 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

great post (not just the part i quoted).  but the part i quoted is where i find myself.

it's not odd that they're pinpoint accurate with some stuff and not on others, but it is odd how and which they decide to dramatize.  like i said, the way it played out on the court was plenty dramatic, and that's the type of stuff viewers love to research and factcheck themselves, which makes it a curious decision.  even the decision to make it a 98-97 game at the end instead of 98-98 is strange to me.  maybe they didn't want to show nixon being the hero or maybe they thought free throws weren't dramatic enough?  the way they showed cooper's shot was so specific i went to look up video, and yeah, no.

Agree 100%. It really is curious what they choose to change or not change because much of it seems arbitrary and not designed to drive the plot. I just keep asking myself, why? If you're going to the trouble of digging up Larry Bird's puffer jacket or mimicking Jamaal Wilkes funky over the head shooting style, why not be as accurate as possible if it doesn't impact the storyline?  Take artistic license when you need it, but otherwise it seems easier to stick to the sheet music. I just have a bad feeling that Magic's game 6 against the Sixers is going to end up being a buzzer beater, when the game was dramatic enough on its own merit.

One thing that makes it even a little weirder for me is that I've been watching it with my 16 year old son -- who absolutely loves it btw -- and has no historical reference on any of it. So I kind of end up being a fact checker for him, but at the same time I'm trying not to spoil anything or ruin his experience with it. "Yeah... the Boston Garden really was that big of a shit hole. That part is spot on." "No, son, I don't know if Magic ate that much pussy in real life but yes he did fuck about half of Los Angeles."

One other thing... was it me or did the basketball scenes last night not seem as well put together as the previous episodes? I thought it was a bit of a step down.

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

30 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Agree 100%. It really is curious what they choose to change or not change because much of it seems arbitrary and not designed to drive the plot. I just keep asking myself, why? If you're going to the trouble of digging up Larry Bird's puffer jacket or mimicking Jamaal Wilkes funky over the head shooting style, why not be as accurate as possible if it doesn't impact the storyline?  Take artistic license when you need it, but otherwise it seems easier to stick to the sheet music. I just have a bad feeling that Magic's game 6 against the Sixers is going to end up being a buzzer beater, when the game was dramatic enough on its own merit.

One thing that makes it even a little weirder for me is that I've been watching it with my 16 year old son -- who absolutely loves it btw -- and has no historical reference on any of it. So I kind of end up being a fact checker for him, but at the same time I'm trying not to spoil anything or ruin his experience with it. "Yeah... the Boston Garden really was that big of a shit hole. That part is spot on." "No, son, I don't know if Magic ate that much pussy in real life but yes he did fuck about half of Los Angeles."

One other thing... was it me or did the basketball scenes last night not seem as well put together as the previous episodes? I thought it was a bit of a step down.

On that last point, I am almost certain that at beginning during Rockets game they cut to scoreboard showing Pacers.  So, yeah, some details aren’t quite there. 

[TrashMaster G 17551]

I swear to god, some of you guys could suck the fun out of an orgy.   (So to speak)

[Eskimohorn 5633]

I swear to god, some of you guys could suck the fun out of an orgy.   (So to speak)

Was that a quote from Jerry West?

[Michael Knight 12977]

4 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Re: Bird in the press conference.  I'm assuming that was made up?  Was Bird really that brash, and was he really a tobacco chewer?

yes

[Mac8111 2106]

Man they make Westhead look like a total pussy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reese Bennett 3608]

Pregame for Lakers at Boston.

 

[Deej 76756]

Fuck, the NBA was so great back then.