winning time: the rise of the lakers dynasty. hbo in march.

[Deej 76972]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The guy cast as Dr J looks like Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

I thought that was Sinbad?

[Guest]

16 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

first episode I really didnt like. 

I agree that the final nurse scene was forced for no real reason, we get it, hes a horndog.. 

no idea why they didnt just say Dallas instead of Dynasty, especially since the all star game was only 6 weeks before the iconic JR shooting episode aired.

 

... maybe too many people would have gotten confused thinking they were talking about the city rather than the show?

I wanna like the show but it’s fucking cartoonish. JCR needs to button his shirts for SOME scenes. The nurse scene was ridiculous. The constant drama, whether it’s Bird getting more attention than Magic, Westhead’s and Riley’s plight, McKinney’s feelings, or Buss’ finances, is tiresome and totally contrived. West is a laughable character. 

[Guest]

The Westhead depiction bugs me.   They are portraying him as a pussy that other pussies would kick the shit out of.

It's fucked up with regard to "playing along" with the relationship not just between McKinney, Riley, and Westhead; while also just assuming the audience sees this while just nodding in acceptance of leading a team of alphas in a hypercompetitive environment.

It's like having a more passive Bob Ross in the place of Jimmy Johnson and the 90's Cowboys.  It just doesn't fucking work.

[C-Man 27285]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:00 PM, Reese Bennett said:

Kareem weighs in:

https://kareem.substack.com/p/winning-time-isnt-just-deliberately?s=r

 

Hmm, Kareem writes:

Quote

"I’ve battled leukemia, heart surgery, cancer, fire, and racism—a negative portrayal of me on a TV show has no effect on me personally. But it does affect others. For example, I never said “F—k off” to the child actor (Ross Harris) in Airplane!, nor have I ever said that to any child. I realize this was a shorthand way of showing my perceived aloofness during that time, even though I have often spoken about my intense, almost debilitating shyness.

 

Though he might not have told the kid actor from AIRPLANE to "fuck off" here's a direct excerpt from page 52 of Jeff Pearlman's book:

Quote

"Some little kid would ask for an autograph and he'd say, 'Go fuck yourself," said Linda Rambis, who worked as the vice president and general manager of Forum tennis during the early 1980's. "But Kareem was, otherwise, an incredible professional."

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by C-Man

[WBT 20675]

I laughed at Chick's Cal Worthington and His Dog Spot ad.

Also, Dr. J's rock the cradle dunk was on Cooper, not Magic.

[henrygandorf 29197]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

The Westhead depiction bugs me.   They are portraying him as a pussy that other pussies would kick the shit out of.

It's fucked up with regard to "playing along" with the relationship not just between McKinney, Riley, and Westhead; while also just assuming the audience sees this while just nodding in acceptance of leading a team of alphas in a hypercompetitive environment.

It's like having a more passive Bob Ross in the place of Jimmy Johnson and the 90's Cowboys.  It just doesn't fucking work.

hi mrs westhead.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

hi mrs westhead.

Not trying to whiteknight the motherfucker, but holy cow, there's no way he was like the portrayal in the show.

Actually, i keep wishing Weasthead would just quit so we could get to Riley...but yeah, follow the storyline.  LOL.

Edited April 27, 2022 by slorch

[oSuJeff97 3435]

6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Not trying to whiteknight the motherfucker, but holy cow, there's no way he was like the portrayal in the show.

Yeah agreed.

He had multiple NBA head coach and assistant jobs over the years, plus was the head coach at those 80s Loyola Marymount teams that were really good.

You don’t get those jobs and that level of success being the ineffectual pussy they make him out to be. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8951]

33 minutes ago, slorch said:

Actually, i keep wishing Weasthead would just quit so we could get to Riley...but yeah, follow the storyline.  LOL.

When do they ever follow the storyline? I assume Riley will take over in the first round of the playoffs when the Lakers face off against Lebron and the Heat. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by HornOnTheBayou

[utxmike05 1828]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

The Westhead depiction bugs me.   They are portraying him as a pussy that other pussies would kick the shit out of.

It's fucked up with regard to "playing along" with the relationship not just between McKinney, Riley, and Westhead; while also just assuming the audience sees this while just nodding in acceptance of leading a team of alphas in a hypercompetitive environment.

It's like having a more passive Bob Ross in the place of Jimmy Johnson and the 90's Cowboys.  It just doesn't fucking work.

Holy shit I would love to see this same type of show done for the early 90s Cowboys……

[atomheartbevo 89846]

15 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

Holy shit I would love to see this same type of show done for the early 90s Cowboys……

It could be 100% accurate, with no made-up/fictionalized stuff, and people would not believe it.

[Augustus 3061]

21 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

Holy shit I would love to see this same type of show done for the early 90s Cowboys……

That's a great idea.  Give some backstory on JJ buying the team and hiring JJ, then follow the buildup from the Herschel Walker trade.  Goddamn those were glorious days.

[Hate 20149]

I think the episode prior to this weekend ruined it for me,  I don't understand the portraying Westhead as this huge incompetent pussy.  I was willing to ride along with the Jerry West portrayal because I could believe some things to be a little closer to the truth.  But this show decided (for whatever reason) to completely diverge from any kind of reality and it lost me. 

[bullzak 422]

9 hours ago, utxmike05 said:

Holy shit I would love to see this same type of show done for the early 90s Cowboys……

Pearlmans book on the 90 Boys is a fun read. The whole barber chair deal to open the book is insane. 

I dont dig the West portrayal. I mean the guy is one of the legends of the game as a player and front office guy. Dont think that happens if he is a raving lunatic for a few decades.

And agree on Westhead. No way that guy could be some kind of pussy and lead these guys to a title. Check out "Guru of Go" on 30 for 30. Westhead was legit.

But hey the whole motif is over the top so you just have to buckle up for the ride. 

[utxmike05 1828]

2 hours ago, bullzak said:

Pearlmans book on the 90 Boys is a fun read. The whole barber chair deal to open the book is insane. 

I dont dig the West portrayal. I mean the guy is one of the legends of the game as a player and front office guy. Dont think that happens if he is a raving lunatic for a few decades.

And agree on Westhead. No way that guy could be some kind of pussy and lead these guys to a title. Check out "Guru of Go" on 30 for 30. Westhead was legit.

But hey the whole motif is over the top so you just have to buckle up for the ride. 

Boys will be Boys is great fkn read.  Barber chair and Irvin is nuts...Those mfers were wild lol.  Which is why a show is needed...they wouldn't even have to exaggerate much on their personalities.

Growing up I always remember the stories about why they moved training camp out of St Ed's....

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:54 PM, utxmike05 said:

Yea the way they are portraying each character...I can't tell if it's 100%, 75%, 25% accurate because I didn't know how these people were back then, aside from stories about their characters in sports news. I'm definetly taking some with a grain of salt.

They make Bird seem like a douche bag...maybe he was...I dunno.  Or maybe it's just part of the fuck Boston theme.

I had no idea who Westhead was...but now Westhead is always going to be a mopey Jason Segal - kinda like in Forgetting Sarah Marshall.  

I saw were real Jerry West is getting lawyers involved bc he is pissed how they portray him lol.  I think it's awesome. maybe West should be more like Jason Clarke.

Throughout college and early in his pro career Bird was similar to Kareem in that he was really shy and somewhat surly with the media. It's part of why he left Indiana and Bob Knight. He preferred being out of the limelight. The difference between Bird and Kareem is that Bird eventually opened up and by his mid to late 20s he developed a wry, playful banter with the media and his dry humor was displayed more often. 

[Augustus 3061]

4 hours ago, bullzak said:

 

I dont dig the West portrayal. I mean the guy is one of the legends of the game as a player and front office guy. Dont think that happens if he is a raving lunatic for a few decades.

 

 

I've no idea how accurate or inaccurate the West portrayal is, but that level of crazed obsession is often what makes some people the incredible successes they turn out to be.

Steve Jobs was a raving lunatic a lot of the time.

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

 

[Deej 76972]

Just now, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

"I slept with a lot more women than the show indicates...and Isiah Thomas."

[henrygandorf 29197]

for all the westhead bitching, i find it pretty believable that he was in an impossible spot wedged between mckinney and riley.  we see the relationship he already had with mckinney and the new one being forged with riley and the success it yielded.  i think that would put a lot of pressure on a guy early in his career, and that part seems believable to me. 

how they choose to go with the dialogue or how segel decides to play it after that just come down to creative choices.  it's not bothering me in the slightest and i've been told i can be overly critical of trivial shit.

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

 

[WBT 20675]

Feels like this should be documented in the thread

[Pam Cummings 9685]

22 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

These god damn HBO cocksuckers are making us look like idiots, Jeanie! Fucking clowns!

Edited April 27, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[TrashMaster G 17637]

3 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

Solid take.

[Michael Knight 12997]

21 hours ago, slorch said:

Not trying to whiteknight the motherfucker, but holy cow, there's no way he was like the portrayal in the show.

Actually, i keep wishing Weasthead would just quit so we could get to Riley...but yeah, follow the storyline.  LOL.

I mean theres a reason he never made it as a coach

[BearSchlong 8124]

Yeah agreed.
He had multiple NBA head coach and assistant jobs over the years, plus was the head coach at those 80s Loyola Marymount teams that were really good.
You don’t get those jobs and that level of success being the ineffectual pussy they make him out to be. 

The book goes into great detail about how his college coaching schemes worked great with younger players without the basketball IQ of NBA talent, but slowed the pro game down to the point where they lost games they should have easily won, and won close games on sheer talent that would have been blowouts had Westhead fully carried out McKinney's scheme.

Like putting hobbles on thoroughbreds. Great bench coach as long as he wasn't in charge of the whole game plan.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

14 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

I mean theres a reason he never made it as a coach

He never "made it" in the sense that he wasn't a coach who won multiple NBA championships, but he *did* win an NBA title as the Lakers coach, and he had multiple other NBA head coaching and assistant jobs over the years, as well as very successful run as a college coach.

That's "making it" to the vast, vast majority of coaches in the world.

I understand if his schemes didn't quite work as well in the NBA, but I just don't buy that he was the completely ineffectual pussy they make him out to be in the show. Maybe that characterization will change over time, and especially once he does win the title, but I just can't believe a guy like him behaved like that, even before he won the title.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

19 hours ago, WBT said:

Feels like this should be documented in the thread

Lol so great.

And yeah we haven't talked about how great Avon is in the show. In fact, Wood Harris is just fucking great in everything he does. He's just one of those guys who makes everything he's in better.

[Red Five 40910]

Spencer Haywood came to my middle school once and told us not to do drugs. Probably 1988. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

37 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Lol so great.

And yeah we haven't talked about how great Avon is in the show. In fact, Wood Harris is just fucking great in everything he does. He's just one of those guys who makes everything he's in better.

His real life brother,  Steve Harris, is playing Magic's business manager on the show, Dr. Day. 

 

 

[Michael Knight 12997]

45 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

He never "made it" in the sense that he wasn't a coach who won multiple NBA championships, but he *did* win an NBA title as the Lakers coach, and he had multiple other NBA head coaching and assistant jobs over the years, as well as very successful run as a college coach.

That's "making it" to the vast, vast majority of coaches in the world.

I understand if his schemes didn't quite work as well in the NBA, but I just don't buy that he was the completely ineffectual pussy they make him out to be in the show. Maybe that characterization will change over time, and especially once he does win the title, but I just can't believe a guy like him behaved like that, even before he won the title.

Dude coached 2 other teams a total of 3 years with a 72–154 record. It's pretty obvious he had little to do with the Lakers winning a title

[Michael Knight 12997]

40 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Spencer Haywood came to my middle school once and told us not to do drugs. Probably 1988. 

What a hypocrite

Edited April 28, 2022 by Michael Knight

[Guest]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:15 PM, C-Man said:

 

Hmm, Kareem writes:

 

Though he might not have told the kid actor from AIRPLANE to "fuck off" here's a direct excerpt from page 52 of Jeff Pearlman's book:

 

You drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes. 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

for all the westhead bitching, i find it pretty believable that he was in an impossible spot wedged between mckinney and riley.  we see the relationship he already had with mckinney and the new one being forged with riley and the success it yielded.  i think that would put a lot of pressure on a guy early in his career, and that part seems believable to me. 

how they choose to go with the dialogue or how segel decides to play it after that just come down to creative choices.  it's not bothering me in the slightest and i've been told i can be overly critical of trivial shit.

Glad to hear your opinion. Mine is than when combined with all of the other manufactured “creative choices”, it’s ruined the show for me. 

[C-Man 27285]

16 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

The book goes into great detail about how his college coaching schemes worked great with younger players without the basketball IQ of NBA talent, but slowed the pro game down to the point where they lost games they should have easily won, and won close games on sheer talent that would have been blowouts had Westhead fully carried out McKinney's scheme.

Like putting hobbles on thoroughbreds. Great bench coach as long as he wasn't in charge of the whole game plan.

I've gotten through that part of the book too. Westhead didn't change anything from McKinney's system in Year 1 and the Lakers won the title. It was Westhead's idea to put Magic at center in Game 6 of the Finals and it was a genius move. His downfall started at training camp the following season when he became the permanent head corch. He completely changed McKinney's system after also insisting on passing on Larry Nance in the draft to take Mike McGee. He also over-paid dearly to sign FA Mitch Kupchak.

But the biggest issue was changing the high-flying, always-in-motion "Showtime" system installed by McKinney. That doomed Westhead. He had players running to set spots on the floor where they camped. The Lakers got stagnant -- and then Magic hurt his knee. The players grumbled at first and then outright revolted at the end. I haven't gotten to the part where they actually fire Westhead, though. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by C-Man

[SizzleChest 8284]

45 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

What a hypocrite

If he was rehabbed and clean, that makes him a hypocrite?

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

If he was rehabbed and clean, that makes him a hypocrite?

First, we are all hypocrites in some aspects, oftentimes in many aspects in life. Second, if he’d cleaned up, I’d much rather hear from him than AC Green. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Dude coached 2 other teams a total of 3 years with a 72–154 record. It's pretty obvious he had little to do with the Lakers winning a title

Ok fine. But he was still an NBA coach and he still has a ring.

It's like saying someone in the MLB who hits .200 "sucks." Yeah, they may "suck" in the context of other MLB players, but they still made the show, and are still better than 99% of the baseball players in the world.

Westhead may have been a mediocre NBA coach, but he still accomplished more than 99% of all the basketball coaches in the world, and I'm never going to believe he acted like they are portraying him acting on this show. (I still love the show)

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

His real life brother,  Steve Harris, is playing Magic's business manager on the show, Dr. Day. 

 

 

Holy shit.

I had no idea they were brothers, but looking at them in this pic, they are totally obviously brothers, lol. 

[SizzleChest 8284]

4 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

First, we are all hypocrites in some aspects, oftentimes in many aspects in life. Second, if he’d cleaned up, I’d much rather hear from him than AC Green. 

Yes, we are all hypocrites at some level, but calling someone a hypocrite who spoke to children about the dangers of drug abuse based on their own experience is laudable, not hypocritical.  Agree on Haywood vs. Green - I would much rather kids hear about the raw experience from someone who lived it than some pithy "don't do drugs" mantra from someone that has no clue about the negative outcomes of addiction.

[lateshow 1308]

17 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Ok fine. But he was still an NBA coach and he still has a ring.

It's like saying someone in the MLB who hits .200 "sucks." Yeah, they may "suck" in the context of other MLB players, but they still made the show, and are still better than 99% of the baseball players in the world.

Westhead may have been a mediocre NBA coach, but he still accomplished more than 99% of all the basketball coaches in the world, and I'm never going to believe he acted like they are portraying him acting on this show. (I still love the show)

FWIW, this is just another thing the show is taking considerable creative liberties, as well as Segel playing him as some befuddled pussy. The book does not portray him anything like they are in the show. He was a good dude, smart dude, and the players liked him. Until he totally changed the system and started buying into his own hype as a "basketball genius." In fact, they still liked him personally, but didn't believe in him as a coach any longer. 

Oh, and that whole thing of Westhead having to miss due to a kidney stone and Riley having to take over.....never happened. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by lateshow

[henrygandorf 29197]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

I've gotten through that part of the book too. Westhead didn't change anything from McKinney's system in Year 1 and the Laker won the title. It was Westhead's idea to put Magic at center in Game 6 of the Finals and it was a genius move. His downfall started at training camp the following training camp when he became the permanent head corch. He completely changed McKinney's system after also insisting on passing on Larry Nance in the draft to take Mike McGee. He also over-paid dearly to sign FA Mitch Kupchak.

But the biggest issue was changing the high-flying, always-in-motion "Showtime" system installed by McKinney that doomed Westhead. He had players running to set spots on the floor where they camped. The Lakers got stagnant -- and then Magic hurt his knee. The players grumbled at first and then outright revolted at the end. I haven't gotten to the part where they actually fire Westhead, though. 

the book fag thread is that way ---------->

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, lateshow said:

FWIW, this is just another thing the show is taking considerable creative liberties, as well as Segel playing him as some befuddled pussy. The book does not portray him anything like they are in the show. He was a good dude, smart dude, and the players liked him. Until he totally changed the system and started buying into his own hype as a "basketball genius." In fact, they still liked him personally, but didn't believe in him as a coach any longer. 

Oh, and that whole thing of Westhead having to miss due to a kidney stone and Riley having to take over.....never happened. 

Yes on this whole post. The kidney stone fabrication is yet another idiotic liberty taken. Ferrell dodged a bullet. I can’t believe Reilly, Brody, Harris and Segel signed on for this horse shit. I’m pulling the rip cord. 

[Michael Knight 12997]

1 hour ago, SizzleChest said:

If he was rehabbed and clean, that makes him a hypocrite?

[henrygandorf 29197]

7 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m pulling the rip cord. 

[Red Five 40910]

4 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

I laughed.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

20 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

I’ll probably stay here for the sheer entertainment factor of you telling me my opinions are wrong. 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

43 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Wood

[C-Man 27285]

7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Fabricating a kidney stone event purely so they can make a running gag out of Westhead avoiding conflict by fleeing to the restroom and having it culminate with him actually pissing himself during a confrontation was equal parts (a) quality entertaining cringe, and (b) taking things way too far to misrepresent this poor guy who by all accounts was a pretty good dude and not at all the incompetent pussy they portray him to be.  

Several of the characters are clearly caricatures, but Westhead is the only one that bothers me.  He’s getting a pretty raw deal, although it is entertaining seeing Segel play him that way and makes for good drama with the coaches if you get past how much they’re dragging the real person.  

I’m guessing McKinney probably wasn’t such an asshole about getting replaced, either.  Showing up to a guy’s hospital bed (I guess we already know that didn’t happen) just to tell him the only reason he wanted him as an assistant was because he’s a worthless pussy who wouldn’t be a threat seemed like a pretty bold heel turn.  

The Lakers handled the official handoff from McKinney to Westhead poorly, once they figured/decided he wasn't going to be able to return that season, or ever. McKinney was still working toward coming back when the Lakers announced the removal of "interim" coach label on Westhead. Trouble is they did it before telling McKinney, who found out when a reporter called his house for comment and his son answered. McKinney's son had to tell his dad that he was not going to return as Lakers' coach.

Buss felt terribly about how things went that he pulled strings to get McKinney the Indiana Pacers gig, where he coached for a few years. I'm not sure if the accident or Indiana's poor roster was to blame for their lackluster record during the McKinney years but the accident clearly carried lifelong hardships for McKinney. The final lines of the Prologue in Pearlman's book:

Quote

There is a pause. A long, lengthy, painful, awkwart, ugly pause. I want to ask Jack McKinney more about the Lakers dynasty, about Westhead and Riley and Magic and Kareem. I want to know if ever feels as if he's been left behind, as if there an enormous party and he was turned away at the door.

I want to ask him so many things, but come the end of our interview, I simply shake his hand and thank him for the time.

Jack McKinney is the man most responsible for the birth of the Showtime era of professional basketball.

If only he could remember it.

 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

2 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Holy shit.

I had no idea they were brothers, but looking at them in this pic, they are totally obviously brothers, lol. 

#noracist