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winning time: the rise of the lakers dynasty. hbo in march.

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

Posted
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1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Fabricating a kidney stone event purely so they can make a running gag out of Westhead avoiding conflict by fleeing to the restroom and having it culminate with him actually pissing himself during a confrontation was equal parts (a) quality entertaining cringe, and (b) taking things way too far to misrepresent this poor guy who by all accounts was a pretty good dude and not at all the incompetent pussy they portray him to be.  

Several of the characters are clearly caricatures, but Westhead is the only one that bothers me.  He’s getting a pretty raw deal, although it is entertaining seeing Segel play him that way and makes for good drama with the coaches if you get past how much they’re dragging the real person.  

I’m guessing McKinney probably wasn’t such an asshole about getting replaced, either.  Showing up to a guy’s hospital bed (I guess we already know that didn’t happen) just to tell him the only reason he wanted him as an assistant was because he’s a worthless pussy who wouldn’t be a threat seemed like a pretty bold heel turn.  

Yeah.

As over-the-top as the Buss stuff is with him being a huge horn dog, they at least balance that out with showing him being the shrewd businessman that he was in other scenes.

With Westhead, it's like they ONLY thing we see with him is being just a completely over-the-top incompetent pussy. 

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Js1
Js1

No we obviously all hate it

Michael Knight
Michael Knight

Shouldn't this be on showtime

atomheartbevo
atomheartbevo

So what are your thoughts on this last episode. And here's a few photos.... Winning Time on HBO: and holy fucking shit the actual press conference  

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12988

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah.

As over-the-top as the Buss stuff is with him being a huge horn dog, they at least balance that out with showing him being the shrewd businessman that he was in other scenes.

With Westhead, it's like they ONLY thing we see with him is being just a completely over-the-top incompetent pussy. 

I don't think they are showing him as incompetent since they are winning, tho I think the audience is meant to infer that's all Riley which any logical person would assume from this situation. He's just a weirdo who lacks confidence and doesn't know how to deal with people. He's basically supposed to be the exact opposite of Pat Riley.

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SizzleChest

SizzleChest 8284

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3 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

uh...

 

that was a damn specific and unambigous ending of the episode.

Wood really wanted to kill Westhead, but they decided it was a more dramatic story to have the team decide and Kareem be the deciding vote.  In reality, Westhead kicked him off the team and he tried to hire a hitman from Detroit to kill Westhead.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89732

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

The scene (however fake history) between Haywood and Kareem was powerful ... I cannot believe it was able to get filmed in today's Hollywood.

There has been some very powerful moments in the series, which makes it a shame when they get overshadowed for various other reasons. I kind of want a more truthful series just about Kareem, after watching his documentary.

The thing I’m more surprised about in terms of filming, is where the line is between the filmmakers/HBO getting sued and not getting sued.  I’m sure they had lawyers go over everything, and they have the disclaimer, but still.  Also, I’m assuming they had permission to use the Lakers’ name, logos, etc. because that seems like something they could get dinged on, given you can’t just start using logos, etc., but I need to look at the credits.

And we are less than a week away from West’s lawsuit, according to Wikipedia

Quote

On April 19, 2022, Jerry West demanded a retraction from HBO within two weeks for the "cruel" and "deliberately false" depiction of him as a temperamental, foul-mouthed executive prone to angry outbursts and mood swings.[51][52][53] 

Quote

A week later, HBO responded to West with the following statement: "HBO has a long history of producing compelling content drawn from actual facts and events that are fictionalized in part for dramatic purposes. Winning Time is not a documentary and has not been presented as such. However, the series and its depictions are based on extensive factual research and reliable sourcing, and HBO stands resolutely behind our talented creators and cast who have brought a dramatization of this epic chapter in basketball history to the screen." [54] 

Quote

West, in turn, has said that he intends to pursue legal action against HBO for defamation, even if he has to "take this all the way to the Supreme Court."[55]

I’m picturing West saying he will sue and “TAKE THIS ALL THE FUCKING WAY TO THE SUPREME FUCKING COURT MOTHERFUCKERS!”

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1798

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24 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

What was there in that scene that you are surprised at?

The story was setup as the usual trope ... black guy has some excuse for whatever he did wrong because of some white guy ... but then they did the big 180 and revealed the tormentor was African American (shout out to East Texas and "High Yella") ... and then Haywood played the "But Whitey" Card for all his problems and when Kareem told him the team voted ... he freaked out ... not because he realized he fucked up but because he realized the couldn't play The Race Card and blame it for all his problems. He finally came to terms with the only person responsible for his problems was him - an African American - and not some 18th Century cracker.

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lateshow

lateshow 1304

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, SizzleChest said:

Wood really wanted to kill Westhead, but they decided it was a more dramatic story to have the team decide and Kareem be the deciding vote.  In reality, Westhead kicked him off the team and he tried to hire a hitman from Detroit to kill Westhead.

Yeah, and he wasn't kicked off the team. He was suspended from the team after the Finals had already started. 

Heywood's mom is actually the person that talked him out of taking out the hit on Westhead. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89732

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10 minutes ago, Drew said:

Not sure why Jerry West is suing...this show and that character is one of the brightest spots on the entire show.  It's making me LIKE Jerry even more.

Yeah. This show’s version of him makes him feel like a guy who put together all of those winning teams and coaching staffs as an executive.  

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Michael Knight

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Posted
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14 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

The story was setup as the usual trope ... black guy has some excuse for whatever he did wrong because of some white guy ... but then they did the big 180 and revealed the tormentor was African American (shout out to East Texas and "High Yella") ... and then Haywood played the "But Whitey" Card for all his problems and when Kareem told him the team voted ... he freaked out ... not because he realized he fucked up but because he realized the couldn't play The Race Card and blame it for all his problems. He finally came to terms with the only person responsible for his problems was him - an African American - and not some 18th Century cracker.

all right go fuck yourself loser

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2 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

If they change Magic's wording to "the HIV virus that I have obtained" from his actual "the HIV virus that I have attained" ...THAT will be a bridge too far for me

There are two kinds of AIDS in this world. Full-blown AIDS and Magic Johnson AIDS. 

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Posted
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17 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

The story was setup as the usual trope ... black guy has some excuse for whatever he did wrong because of some white guy ... but then they did the big 180 and revealed the tormentor was African American (shout out to East Texas and "High Yella") ... and then Haywood played the "But Whitey" Card for all his problems and when Kareem told him the team voted ... he freaked out ... not because he realized he fucked up but because he realized the couldn't play The Race Card and blame it for all his problems. He finally came to terms with the only person responsible for his problems was him - an African American - and not some 18th Century cracker.

That’s an….active imagination.  

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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20 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

The story was setup as the usual trope ... black guy has some excuse for whatever he did wrong because of some white guy ... but then they did the big 180 and revealed the tormentor was African American (shout out to East Texas and "High Yella") ... and then Haywood played the "But Whitey" Card for all his problems and when Kareem told him the team voted ... he freaked out ... not because he realized he fucked up but because he realized the couldn't play The Race Card and blame it for all his problems. He finally came to terms with the only person responsible for his problems was him - an African American - and not some 18th Century cracker.

Did you pull a muscle on that reach?

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HornOnTheBayou

HornOnTheBayou 8931

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On 5/2/2022 at 1:10 AM, Harrison Bergeron said:

The story was setup as the usual trope ... black guy has some excuse for whatever he did wrong because of some white guy ... but then they did the big 180 and revealed the tormentor was African American (shout out to East Texas and "High Yella") ... and then Haywood played the "But Whitey" Card for all his problems and when Kareem told him the team voted ... he freaked out ... not because he realized he fucked up but because he realized the couldn't play The Race Card and blame it for all his problems. He finally came to terms with the only person responsible for his problems was him - an African American - and not some 18th Century cracker.

The Ultimate Insult - May God Have Mercy On Your Soul - Billy Madison (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube

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Js1

Js1 85422

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Posted
14 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

That’s an….active imagination.  

You aren't familiar with this dude's work.  He LOVES to accuse everyone of using the race card.

It's a fucking TV dramatization.  People are taking it WAY too seriously. 

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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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On 5/2/2022 at 12:22 AM, atomheartbevo said:

 

The thing I’m more surprised about in terms of filming, is where the line is between the filmmakers/HBO getting sued and not getting sued.  I’m sure they had lawyers go over everything, and they have the disclaimer, but still.  Also, I’m assuming they had permission to use the Lakers’ name, logos, etc. because that seems like something they could get dinged on, given you can’t just start using logos, etc., but I need to look at the credits.

I don't believe they got permission from the league to use any of that.

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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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BTW, I'm still really liking the show but they've veered wildly from reality in the last two episodes.

And it's been mentioned above, Haywood put out a hit on Westhead but scuttled it when Haywood's mother felt he was up to something and told him she'd turn him in herself if something bad went down and he was involved. He quickly called it off at that point.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11519

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Based on some half-assed internet research, Haywood did indeed put a hit on Westhead. A friend and heavy from Detroit took the contract. The plan sounded pretty half baked. They were going to cut the brake lines on Westhead’s car to make it look like an accident. Mama Haywood made him call it off. 
 

If Haywood was serious he would have hired Spilotro and Joey Hansen. Hansen was the primary suspect in Victor Weiss’ murder. Hansen was Spilotro’s top lieutenant in LA and a real deal hitman. 

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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1 hour ago, C-Man said:

BTW, I'm still really liking the show but they've veered wildly from reality in the last two episodes.

And it's been mentioned above, Haywood put out a hit on Westhead but scuttled it when Haywood's mother felt he was up to something and told him she'd turn him in herself if something bad went down and he was involved. He quickly called it off at that point.

Yeah I have to say that this week's episode was the first one where I was actually looking at the clock to see how much time was left.

The stuff with Buss's Mom was a beating to watch and then the doubling down on the idea that Jeanie Buss was some integral part of the GW Forum management when she was 18-19 when she was doing something completely different is as much of a distraction as the bizarre characterization of Paul Westhead.

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veritas aequitas

veritas aequitas 443

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This has been one of the most fun series I have ever watched. As someone who as long touted Magic as the greatest player ever for his ability to make every other player on the team better and to play all 5 positions it only further supported my position on that. And I am not sure why any of those depicted in this show have made disparaging remarks about how they were shown since I actually came away having a higher opinion of them after this.

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Reese Bennett

Reese Bennett 3615

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Posted (edited)

Magic had a great game, going 14 for 23 and 14/14 on free throws, but they don't win without Silk going off. Wilkes had 37 points and 10 rebounds. Next was Cooper with 16. Nixon only had 4 points. Lakers shot 94% on free throws. I think they shorted Wilkes in the show.

Laker minutes:

  • Magic 47
  • Chone 43
  • Wilkes 42
  • Nixon 40
  • Cooper 39
  • Landsberger 19
  • Holland 9
  • Byrnes 1

For the Sixers, Cheeks played 40 and Dr. J played 39. After that it was Dawkins at 31 and a bunch of players in the low to mid 20s. 

Edited by Reese Bennett
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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3446

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Posted
On 5/2/2022 at 3:54 PM, TommyGufano said:

If they change Magic's wording to "the HIV virus that I have obtained" from his actual "the HIV virus that I have attained" ...THAT will be a bridge too far for me

 

On 3/8/2022 at 6:59 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

The 80s was my favorite version of the NBA but as for the 90s and early 00s, outside of Jordan, the basketball was horrible. The ball and player movement of today's NBA so far surpasses the 25 years prior to it in terms of beauty and fun basketball that it's not even funny.  

As for "Winning Time" I've been looking forward to this ever since the notice went out. This show is going to be so good.  I still remember Magic announcing he had "attained" the HIV virus like it was yesterday. I was a freshman in high school and came home early for a little bit prior to going back to catch the team bus for our freshman football game. That shit shook me and marked the end of my childhood in terms of innocence. His announcement hit me hard.  Magic was my favorite sports figure at that time in my life and an HIV diagnosis meant his death was imminent through my adolescent eyes.

......an ocean too far. 

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