winning time: the rise of the lakers dynasty. hbo in march.

[RPM 26,318]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

I love this show's version of Jerry West.

If I was West I'd hold off suing anyone. He's coming off looking pretty good in the long run. He bleeds purple.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

15 hours ago, NOMAAA said:

Wood Harris deserves recognition for the last episode. 

i cooled on the show as it went along, but the acting throughout was unreal. way too many amazing performances to try and list them all,  but yeah, Wood was amazing in that final episode. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

8 hours ago, Deej said:

I love this show's version of Jerry West. I could identify with him roaming the arena halls during game 6, unable to bring himself to watch. 

That's how I watched the 4th qtr of our first trip to the Rose Bowl vs Michigan. At some point during the game I noticed something good would happened every I was out of my seat. By the end of the 3rd quarter I decided I had to sacrifice myself to get the win. 

[C-Man 27,194]

They really made Paul Westhead out to be a complete clown in this. Playing Magic at center was completely his idea, not McKinney's or Riley's. Westhead's issues came the following year at training camp when he tried to completely re-invent the Lakers' system.

[Reese Bennett 3,608]

16 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

That's how I watched the 4th qtr of our first trip to the Rose Bowl vs Michigan. At some point during the game I noticed something good would happened every I was out of my seat. By the end of the 3rd quarter I decided I had to sacrifice myself to get the win. 

We thank you for your sacrifice.

[Augustus 3,061]

10 hours ago, C-Man said:

They really made Paul Westhead out to be a complete clown in this. Playing Magic at center was completely his idea, not McKinney's or Riley's. Westhead's issues came the following year at training camp when he tried to completely re-invent the Lakers' system.

Did Westhead or anyone else ever offer an explanation as to why he tried to completely change something that had just won the NBA championship?

[Deej 76,755]

10 hours ago, C-Man said:

They really made Paul Westhead out to be a complete clown in this. Playing Magic at center was completely his idea, not McKinney's or Riley's. Westhead's issues came the following year at training camp when he tried to completely re-invent the Lakers' system.

I think it was the year after that. Didn't he coach the next year and get fired at the beginning of the following season?

[Augustus 3,061]

11 minutes ago, Deej said:

I think it was the year after that. Didn't he coach the next year and get fired at the beginning of the following season?

Yeah, I was thinking it was the following season.  But he did coach them the following season, much of which Magic was out of due to injury.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

23 minutes ago, Augustus said:

Did Westhead or anyone else ever offer an explanation as to why he tried to completely change something that had just won the NBA championship?

Probably just pure ego.  Unlike the way he is depicted in the show, the real Westhead likely had a big ego and wanted to implement his own stuff instead of just using McKinney's system.

He couldn't completely change things in the middle of the season when he took over, so probably just thought he would make it *his* team in the following off-season, and winning the title probably gave that ego even more ammo.

 

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

Got a friend to watch, and he binged it over the weekend and finished Sunday night.

He asked why they started off with Magic's HIV diagnosis, even though they didn't know if the show would be renewed, and even though it had absolutely nothing to do at all with that season (and for many seasons to come).

Given that they had no order from HBO for a bunch of additional seasons when they were filming, the only explanation I could come up with is that maybe by reminding everybody about Magic sleeping with a shit-ton of women and getting HIV, it would maybe shut down anybody attacking the series for showing Magic sleeping with a shit-ton of women.

Maybe the book starts off with it, but like I said, the series hadn't been renewed yet (and certainly not up through the HIV diagnosis).

[C-Man 27,194]

3 hours ago, Augustus said:

Did Westhead or anyone else ever offer an explanation as to why he tried to completely change something that had just won the NBA championship?

Fatal hubris.

 

3 hours ago, Deej said:

I think it was the year after that. Didn't he coach the next year and get fired at the beginning of the following season?

Yes, he did coach the entirety of 1980-81 but he totally revamped the offense in training camp several months after the Lakers won the title. It went from run-and-gun and improvisation to guys going and standing in places, throwing the ball into Jabbar and got totally stagnant. Magic got hurt at one point and then they flamed out against Rockets in the first round of the playoffs. Westhead pushed to sign Mitch Kupchak and drafted Mike McGee over Larry Nance, who is who West wanted to draft. The Lakers got off to a ho-hum start in 81-82 and they were about to pull the trigger on firing Westhead but Buss was persuaded to wait a week -- but then the Lakers started winning.

I think Westhead benched Magic near the end of a game when he wouldn't join the huddle or pay attention to what Westhead was saying. Magic told the media he wasn't having fun and was going to ask the Lakers to trade him immediately. That forced Buss's hand and Westhead was fired despite LA having won like five games in a row. I *think* the process that got Riley in as head coach was even sillier. Buss wanted West to co-coach or something with Riley. West was the offensive coach and Riley was the defensive coach according to Buss. But West told Riley he was "the fucking coach" and he would help for a few weeks and that was it.

[C-Man 27,194]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Probably just pure ego.  Unlike the way he is depicted in the show, the real Westhead likely had a big ego and wanted to implement his own stuff instead of just using McKinney's system.

He couldn't completely change things in the middle of the season when he took over, so probably just thought he would make it *his* team in the following off-season, and winning the title probably gave that ego even more ammo.

 

This is exactly what happened. The Lakers won 54 games the season after the title in Magic's rookie year but Magic hurt his knee and missed quite a bit of time. Westhead totally revamped their offense immediately after the championship.

[Wade 464]

So, Westhead's ego likely robbed us of another (and the first) Magic Bird Final.  Seems like that one would have been epic, too.

[C-Man 27,194]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Probably just pure ego.  Unlike the way he is depicted in the show, the real Westhead likely had a big ego and wanted to implement his own stuff instead of just using McKinney's system.

He couldn't completely change things in the middle of the season when he took over, so probably just thought he would make it *his* team in the following off-season, and winning the title probably gave that ego even more ammo.

 

This is why. And they were all working under the assumption that McKinney was coming back at some point.

 

29 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Got a friend to watch, and he binged it over the weekend and finished Sunday night.

He asked why they started off with Magic's HIV diagnosis, even though they didn't know if the show would be renewed, and even though it had absolutely nothing to do at all with that season (and for many seasons to come).

Given that they had no order from HBO for a bunch of additional seasons when they were filming, the only explanation I could come up with is that maybe by reminding everybody about Magic sleeping with a shit-ton of women and getting HIV, it would maybe shut down anybody attacking the series for showing Magic sleeping with a shit-ton of women.

Maybe the book starts off with it, but like I said, the series hadn't been renewed yet (and certainly not up through the HIV diagnosis).

It's not even mentioned and I'm more than halfway through it.

[kingkoopa6 8,347]

I loved me some Jerry. 

he was awesome.

 

I was waiting for Pat to slick back the hair for good...  kept seeing his pops flash backs, but he never did it.

great show. and yes. Julius Campbell was great... dude was actin actin

[bullzak 416]

Havent read the book but I wonder if one of the reasons for Westhead wanting a slower offense is Kareem getting too old to run and gun for 100 games. 

I would argue that run and gun was in Westheads blood given the stint with Denver and Loyola Marymount. 1990 Loyola averaged 122 PPG. 

[TrashMaster G 17,548]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:02 PM, veritas aequitas said:

This has been one of the most fun series I have ever watched. As someone who as long touted Magic as the greatest player ever for his ability to make every other player on the team better and to play all 5 positions it only further supported my position on that. And I am not sure why any of those depicted in this show have made disparaging remarks about how they were shown since I actually came away having a higher opinion of them after this.

Larry Bird f'n hates this post.

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

It's not even mentioned and I'm more than halfway through it.

Okay, the start to the series with the HIV scene is really bizarre then.

 

[Deej 76,755]

2 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

Larry Bird f'n hates this post.

Jerry West can't even look at it. 

[NoRagrets 1,125]

6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Okay, the start to the series with the HIV scene is really bizarre then.

 

Because that’s what most of us think of when we think of magic. They wanted to say “yes, that was a huge deal, but here’s what his life was like 10 years before that.”

[bullzak 416]

Im an old so I remember watching the Sixers series. Also remember thinking too bad for Lakers that Kareem can't play. Clearly plugging your point guard in at center against a team with basically two centers should be a disaster, right? 

The idea that not only did it work but Magic dominated has to be one of the most awesome feats in NBA history given the circumstances. 

[Eskimohorn 5,630]

Those Sixers teams were no joke. But then in 82 they added Moses Malone. So Malone, Dr J, Mo Cheeks, Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones. I remember that team.

The 1980 squad probably was almost as good. Had Doug Collins and Henry Bibby. Little deeper and a prime Dr J.

Did not like the actor playing Dr J

[bullzak 416]

3 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

Did not like the actor playing Dr J

Me neither. Dr. J was a fucking god. 

[Guest]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:49 AM, C-Man said:

They really made Paul Westhead out to be a complete clown in this. Playing Magic at center was completely his idea, not McKinney's or Riley's. Westhead's issues came the following year at training camp when he tried to completely re-invent the Lakers' system.

I stopped watching skipping the last episode (or two). The above is just wrong, because gandorf likes it, and when he’s not on a blondo, he knows Hollywood. 

The whole show was a fucking joke. JCR, SF, and AB should be embarrassed to be associated with it. WF dodged a bullet. 

[C-Man 27,194]

On 5/11/2022 at 12:09 AM, NoRagrets said:

Because that’s what most of us think of when we think of magic. They wanted to say “yes, that was a huge deal, but here’s what his life was like 10 years before that.”

No, it was weird to start with that IMO, I think. I'd have to go back and watch the beginning of the first episode but not sure that's what should've been the opening scene.

 

9 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

I stopped watching skipping the last episode (or two). The above is just wrong, because gandorf likes it, and when he’s not on a blondo, he knows Hollywood. 

The whole show was a fucking joke. JCR, SF, and AB should be embarrassed to be associated with it. WF dodged a bullet. 

I enjoyed it. John C Reilly was terrific. The last 2-3 episodes were a bit of a chore in places.

[notre dame joe 187]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

No, it was weird to start with that IMO, I think. I'd have to go back and watch the beginning of the first episode but not sure that's what should've been the opening scene.

 

I enjoyed it. John C Reilly was terrific. The last 2-3 episodes were a bit of a chore in places.

I could not watch the baskeball scenes, too much motion sickness. 

[yoladu 4,090]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:49 AM, C-Man said:

They really made Paul Westhead out to be a complete clown in this. Playing Magic at center was completely his idea, not McKinney's or Riley's. Westhead's issues came the following year at training camp when he tried to completely re-invent the Lakers' system.

not to mention, Jason Segel perpetually looks like he is in the middle of a tough, difficult shit.

Is that his acting style?

Edited May 12, 2022 by yoladu

[C-Man 27,194]

2 hours ago, yoladu said:

not to mention, Jason Segel perpetually looks like he is in the middle of a tough, difficult shit.

Is that his acting style?

He's great in I LOVE YOU, MAN and FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

He's great in I LOVE YOU, MAN and FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL.

Co-sign.

He wasn't the problem. It was how the "character" was written.

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:18 PM, bullzak said:

Me neither. Dr. J was a fucking god. 

Third. He was my favorite player growing up. Most of the casting is spot on, but the Dr. J actor looks like he should be in 80s porn not on the court.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

 

 

[henrygandorf 29,189]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:07 PM, Porterhouse said:

I stopped watching skipping the last episode (or two). The above is just wrong, because gandorf likes it, and when he’s not on a blondo, he knows Hollywood. 

The whole show was a fucking joke. JCR, SF, and AB should be embarrassed to be associated with it. WF dodged a bullet. 

i'm happy to admit that i don't even know what you're trying to say here.

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm happy to admit that i don't even know what you're trying to say here.

New Surly motto?

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

 

The narrative between Bird and Magic is often depicted as rural vs city in addition to the obvious black vs white dichotomy,  but people forget that Lansing wasn't that big  and beyond that Magic's parents were part of the great migration that saw black folks move from the south in search of manufacturing jobs in the north.  Magic's parents and the community he grew up in was made up people who picked up and moved from places like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and the Carolinas. He was just as "country" and rural as Bird was.  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm happy to admit that i don't even know what you're trying to say here.

Hey you got a Derka laugh. Congrats. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

behind the scenes clip of them filming a basketball sequence:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdeBKHAN3UT/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Guest]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:02 PM, veritas aequitas said:

This has been one of the most fun series I have ever watched. As someone who as long touted Magic as the greatest player ever for his ability to make every other player on the team better and to play all 5 positions it only further supported my position on that. And I am not sure why any of those depicted in this show have made disparaging remarks about how they were shown since I actually came away having a higher opinion of them after this.

I think at first I didn't like the KAJ and Jerry West depictions, but their personalities on the show have definitely warmed to me.  I get a kick out of West now.  You know he gives a giant fuck about the team, but cannot emotionally show it; but then he's a nervous wreck during the games.  That's easily, easily understood if you know highly competitive people.  I think they took KAJ too surly at the beginning, but were trying to illustrate what Magic had to overcome to gain acceptance from Cap.

Loved Riley's, "Let's fucking kill this guys!!!" after the Bard's rambling.  Not sure if that was his approach IRL, but enjoyed it on the show.  

Thought John C Reilly was great again, even if he was more pensive as the Lakers won the title.  He's at a crossroads with his fucktool boys and very talented daughter.  His financial risk isn't over by a longshot, even with the team's position being definitely improved.

Still get a kick out of the depiction of young David Stern.

The Larry Bird interactions now seem to be more as Magic remembered them, or as the devil on Magic's shoulder, tormenting him.  I can just hear real-life Larry Bird saying he talked much better shit than on the show.

The Westhead in the show still frustrates me, but at least he's not as much of a blathering pussy as he was 3-4 episodes ago.  It was ridiculous.

Edited May 15, 2022 by slorch

[Deej 76,755]

8 hours ago, slorch said:

even if he was more pensive as the Lakers won the title.

His mom had just died. I'm sure he was a bit more reflective on life at that point. 

[Augustus 3,061]

I've known some obsessively competitive people like Slorch is referring to--people who are so driven by their insecurities and personal demons that they're just incapable of experiencing joy in their accomplishments because the accomplishments themselves don't fill that hole that's driving them in the first place--and that actor's portrayal is just spot on.

They get some momentary excitement out of climbing the mountain, but very shortly the tank is on empty again and they've got to keep fighting.  

[Red Five 40,846]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

I've known some obsessively competitive people like Slorch is referring to--people who are so driven by their insecurities and personal demons that they're just incapable of experiencing joy in their accomplishments because the accomplishments themselves don't fill that hole that's driving them in the first place--and that actor's portrayal is just spot on.

They get some momentary excitement out of climbing the mountain, but very shortly the tank is on empty again and they've got to keep fighting.  

[Deej 76,755]

7 hours ago, Augustus said:

I've known some obsessively competitive people like Slorch is referring to--people who are so driven by their insecurities and personal demons that they're just incapable of experiencing joy in their accomplishments because the accomplishments themselves don't fill that hole that's driving them in the first place--and that actor's portrayal is just spot on.

They get some momentary excitement out of climbing the mountain, but very shortly the tank is on empty again and they've got to keep fighting.  

Yep. All this.

[Deej 76,755]

"If your erection lasts more than four hours, consult a doctor."

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

I see I'm not the only one on a Sunday night missing this show.

[Deej 76,755]

Fuck...Bird retired 30 years ago. 

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

Fuck...Bird retired 30 years ago. 

I feel so old....

[henrygandorf 29,189]

my boy nenninger gearing up for s2. 

https://instagram.com/stories/ericnenninger/2933282336594653510?igshid=NmNmNjAwNzg=

 

[cmontexas 3,270]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:39 AM, yoladu said:

not to mention, Jason Segel perpetually looks like he is in the middle of a tough, difficult shit.

Is that his acting style?

I think Segel was the problem he cant play anything other than one character: nervous pussy. Other than him great casting.

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

 

 

[BigDHornfan 6,545]

God damn that looks great.

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

1 hour ago, BigDHornfan said:

God damn that looks great.

It really does.  Somehow it looks even better than the first season and the Celtic stuff looks great.

This is just playing to all the strengths of these actors - O'Reilly, Michael Chiklis, Adrien Brody, etc. plus the actors playing the basketball players.  I'm curious to see who they got to play Kurt Rambis.

Cannot believe a TV series is making me like the Lakers and Celtics.