winning time: the rise of the lakers dynasty. hbo in march.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

Just got caught up last night. This show continues to deliver.

A couple of things:

1. As noted, the basketball scenes are amazing. They absolutely nail the Kareem getting the scoring record scene. Suck it Eaton, you fucking goon.

But I was definitely waiting for Dr. J's rock the baby dunk from the 1983 finals. It's one of the most iconic plays in NBA history. A little disappointed that they didn't recreate it.

2. The part where they show Kareem's house burning down brought back some childhood memories for me. Back in the day, the Spurs had a group of fans -- the Baseline Bums -- that were located right above the visitors locker room in the old Hemisfair Arena. They were purposefully placed directly where they could fuck with the other team. They still exist now in a very muted and lame form, but they really were some of the rowdiest fans, ever. They were notorious for throwing avocados at Larry Brown (when he coached the Nuggets) because he said the only thing good about San Antonio was the guacamole. One of them got into a fight with Larry Bird that ended up in a lawsuit. Quinten Dailey was a dude who played for the Bulls and plead guilty to raping a nursing student, so they sent one of the female Bums wearing a nurse’s uniform onto the court and two other Bums pretended to attack her. That kind of shit happened, all the time. Well... a few months after Kareems' house burned down along with his jazz collection, the Lakers came to town. The Bums started heckling him and taunting him with melted records. He was fucking pissed. I think he dropped 40 on them that night but the Spurs still won.

[RPM 26317]

I was a Lew Alcindor fan. The name change was hard to understand for lil redneck RPM, but I stuck with him. When his house burnt all I could think of was my Dad talking about when Joe E. Brown's house burned. The only thing Brown was devastated over was losing the irreplaceable memorabilia he collected from troops on his USO tours. That really connected with me.

[atomheartbevo 89628]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

I want to see the casting for the 88 Pistons LA faced in the finals. This has to continue. 

5 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah seems like we'll definitely see some Bad Boy Pistons and almost certainly Jordan before the series is over. 

[TexPx 2322]

Man, this series has been so much fun. I had access to very good seats at Reunion during this period. I was there in ‘84 against LA game 4 when Derek Harper dribbled out the clock in a tie game. Everybody in the arena was screaming SHOOT!

Also there in 87/88 Conference Finals game 6 when Mavs won to force game 7.

[C-Man 27187]

23 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don't see them going that in depth with either the Pistons or Jordan. Hell, they've barely touched on the Sixers other than some "game" highlights and they were the main competition for both the Lakers and Celtics in the early 80's, effectively preventing at least two, maybe three, more Lakers-Celtics matchups in the Finals in the 80's. This is a series about the Lakers/Showtime with Buss and Magic as the main characters. We get Celtics/Bird/Auerbach as the primary foils.

Pearlman's book actually ends with Magic's HIV+ announcement at the Forum so I can see it circling back to the very opening scene of the series as one of y'all pointed out. I went back and rewatched that scene since I'd completely forgotten that's how this whole thing started.

All I know is that I'm enjoying this series very much.

[henrygandorf 29189]

i don't see any way they get to the dream team.  in fact, i would bet they only involve jordan with a bit of a wink/nod, instead of making him an actual character.  and i think that would happen in the mid 80's.  i know they've done a great job with casting and capturing the spirit (if not the exact look) of some of these real people, but there's no way they could do that effectively with the dream team.  shit, even just casting barkley seems ambitious.

[Deej 76755]

32 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

even just casting barkley seems ambitious

It's like you've never heard of Katfid. 

[cmontexas 3270]

Riley left before Magic's announcement that's probably the final episode those two events

[oSuJeff97 3435]

17 hours ago, C-Man said:

I don't see them going that in depth with either the Pistons or Jordan. Hell, they've barely touched on the Sixers other than some "game" highlights and they were the main competition for both the Lakers and Celtics in the early 80's, effectively preventing at least two, maybe three, more Lakers-Celtics matchups in the Finals in the 80's. This is a series about the Lakers/Showtime with Buss and Magic as the main characters. We get Celtics/Bird/Auerbach as the primary foils.

Pearlman's book actually ends with Magic's HIV+ announcement at the Forum so I can see it circling back to the very opening scene of the series as one of y'all pointed out. I went back and rewatched that scene since I'd completely forgotten that's how this whole thing started.

All I know is that I'm enjoying this series very much.

Yeah I wasn't thinking they would go in-depth with them or anything. Just appearances... maybe 1 or 2 scenes with dialog and then mostly showing the basketball... basically like what they did with Dr. J.

[RPM 26317]

Since this show was greenlighted pre-Discovery takeover, I'm scared to death they will say "Sure it was popular, but look at the cost. We can make 20 semi-scripted reality shows for the same price and come out ahead in the aggregate revenue."

[atomheartbevo 89628]

21 hours ago, RPM said:

Since this show was greenlighted pre-Discovery takeover, I'm scared to death they will say "Sure it was popular, but look at the cost. We can make 20 semi-scripted reality shows for the same price and come out ahead in the aggregate revenue."

That would suck, and would not surprise me and there's not much keeping me on HBO at this point, since I've seen all of the shows I want.

With that said, 4 out of their 5 current dramas (Last of Us, House of the Dragon, Gilded Age, and Euphoria) were all renewed, with Winning Time being the one that's not (but it's the only one currently airing). Comedies - Curb Your Enthusiasm, Righteous Gemstones, Somebody Somewhere, and The Rehearsal were all renewed, and Random Acts of Flyness is pending renewal, so that's 5 for 5. Anthologies - True Detectives and White Lotus were both renewed.

Their current program has an very high renewal rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HBO_original_programming

And they have a shitload in development.

 

[closetojumping 62557]

I've read that the numbers are down and a renewal is unlikely, but that was skimming google a few weeks ago. I sure as shit hope the optimism on this page is warranted. I love the show.

[Js1 85275]

Yea that ending screamed non renewal. Amazing 2 seasons 

[Js1 85275]

And The Wrap just confirmed - cancelled 

[veritas aequitas 442]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Yea that ending screamed non renewal. Amazing 2 seasons 

Yeah that got me all choked up, then again I am hammered on sour mash.

[henrygandorf 29189]

fuck discovery. 

[Saint Austin 745]

WTF? That was like having a series about WWII, watching the Pearl Harbor episode, but reading how we eventually won in front of a VJ Day photo montage. This sucks. 

[TrashMaster G 17547]

Well... shit.

[veritas aequitas 442]

HBO are some sick fucks, first Deadwood and now this.

[Saint Austin 745]

Oh. And fuck “The Gilded Age.” Shit looks boring AF

[Red Five 40844]

That was awkward. More like Losing Time amirite

[4th&Five 41513]

That vintage HBO intro made me think I was 10 again waiting for the premiere of Batman. 

[Reese Bennett 3608]

I can't believe they cancel while people are watching the last episode. Just a horrible decision and a really bad way of doing it.

[WBT 20561]

Great 2 seasons.  That episode set up the Season 3 revenge so well too.

f zazlav

[Eskimohorn 5630]

They did a great job on this. But one thing they did not show (because they focused a hunch on Magic’s struggles), was how much better Magic was over other point guards, starting with the height differential.

[Js1 85275]

45 minutes ago, WBT said:

Great 2 seasons.  That episode set up the Season 3 revenge so well too.

f zazlav

Yea, the media saw episode 7 with the ending of Magic in the shower originally. The scene with Jerry and Jeanie and the montage of photos was added later 

[BearSchlong 8083]

I'm OK with it. Now do the Bulls. Or the 70s Cowboys/Steelers.

[Deej 76755]

And I just canceled HBO. Fuck Discovery.

[chainsaw 9857]

11 hours ago, Js1 said:

And The Wrap just confirmed - cancelled 

I just started this fucking show god damnit

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

I just started this fucking show god damnit

well then you probably shouldn't have read 18 pages about it.

[cmontexas 3270]

Just a phenomenal episode of television followed by a complete WTF Poochie going back to his home planet 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I'm OK with it. Now do the Bulls. Or the 70s Cowboys/Steelers.

Actually I think the 70s Oakland Raiders is who would make the best mini-series. Think of all the fucking characters... peak Al Davis fucking Rozelle, John Madden, the fucking Snake, Art Shell, John Matuzac (sp?), Biltnekoff, etc.

5 minutes ago, cmontexas said:

Just a phenomenal episode of television followed by a complete WTF Poochie going back to his home planet 

Yeah it sucked... obviously they knew they weren't making any more.  Total bummer.

[Red Five 40844]

Even watching in real time, I had a bad feeling with that Dr. Buss and Jeannie thing. "Wait, what's happening....". And then the Poochie stuff.

Norm MacDonald voice: "So a show about the uh Lakers winning, ended with... uh... the Lakers losing." 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

4 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Even watching in real time, I had a bad feeling with that Dr. Buss and Jeannie thing. "Wait, what's happening....". And then the Poochie stuff.

Norm MacDonald voice: "So a show about the uh Lakers winning, ended with... uh... the Lakers losing." 

I mean I think it's pretty clear that the plan was not to end the series with this season.

I posted this up-thread but I'm guessing at a bare minimum the plan was to have them lose to the Celtics in '84 at the end of this season, then cover '85-87 in a final season ending with the Lakers' getting them for the second time in '87.  

But then either when they were close to finished shooting or some time in post-production they were told that there wouldn't be a 3rd season so hence the Poochie ending.

EDIT - also I'm guessing that stuff with Dr. Buss and Jeanie were done as re-shoots after they found out there wouldn't be a 3rd season.

Edited September 18, 2023 by oSuJeff97

[Deej 76755]

At least they stuck HBO with paying the rights to a Zeppelin song. 

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

Showtime/Paramount should pick this up and change the name to what it should have been. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

What a shame and a horrible way to end this show. There were at least 3 more seasons of gold to mine on this. Hell, they could have kept it going through the Kobe/Shaq years if they really wanted to. But I'm sure we will get some random Game of Thrones spin off instead. All the way up with a red hot poker, HBO.

The scene with Pat Riley breaking shit in his office hits close to home. I had a few friends who worked for the Spurs in the late 80's through the 90's and we had all sorts of access. We would play pick up games in the old Hemisfair Arena on off days type of shit. So one night the Spurs beat a Riley-coached team (and I can't remember if he was still coaching the Lakers or the Knicks at the time) and we were hanging around the locker room after the game. It wasn't a playoff game or anything, just your random mid-season game.

There was a curved hallway in the arena that connected the two locker rooms and it had an exit you could take back there as a short cut to your car. I was leaving the game with a buddy through that exit, and the only other person in the hallway was Riles. We were walking several feet behind him so he didn't see us and he thought he was alone. But you can tell he's super fucking pissed off and exasperated, with his hands on his head doing the surrender cobra and muttering something to himself. There is a plastic cup full of water sitting on the ground and Riley takes a quick step up to it and goes full Rafael Septien, spraying water everywhere including all over himself and his suit that probably cost more than my car back then. We started laughing at his little temper tantrum and that's when he noticed us. He turned around and gave us the nastiest "don't fuck with me" look ever, and we immediately stopped laughing. There was a half second of pure terror there when I thought he was going beat our ass, but he just turned around and walked back to the visitors locker room instead. My man was intense.

[4th&Five 41513]

In the original ending of season two, a version of which was sent to critics earlier in the summer, the action ended with a somber Magic Johnson sitting on the floor of the Lakers locker-room showers and absorbing the team’s heartbreaking defeat at the hands of the Boston Celtics. But in the version which aired on HBO (and streamed on Max), that scene is followed by one set five days later. Team owner Jerry Buss (John C. Reilly) and daughter Jeanie (Hadley Robinson) are shown walking alone on the court at the Forum with Jerry talking about his daughter one day taking control of the team and all they had already accomplished. Viewers then see a montage (set to Pat Benatar’s 1982 hit “Shadows of the Night”) featuring the real-life characters from the show along with updates on what they went on to achieve. The new ending was filmed back in January, long before the show was canceled and prior to the start of the WGA and SAG strikes.

https://www.vulture.com/article/winning-time-canceled-season-2-series-finale-explained.html

Edited September 18, 2023 by 4th&Five

[Js1 85275]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

The new ending was filmed back in January, long before the show was canceled and prior to the start of the WGA and SAG strikes.

Sure seems like they've been hinting that cancellation was a real possibility, so better to film it and have it ready.  Could have always ended up as part of season 3.  Was probably easy to just insert once HBO told them the news.  It just didn't get out to the public until right after the show ended (which was a gut punch). 

HBO barely marketed the new season and with the strike, they couldn't even have the actors do promo. Shit show all around. 

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

I didn't realize viewership was so low.  Bummed about this.  It was a great show, even my wife liked it and she doesn't care about sports.

[bullzak 416]

That ending was like doing a show on the history of the Chicago Cubs and ending in 2015. So much of the theme was overcoming Boston. You have to show all that. 

 

[Red Five 40844]

31 minutes ago, bullzak said:

That ending was like doing a show on the history of the Chicago Cubs and ending in 2015. So much of the theme was overcoming Boston. You have to show all that. 

 

Like doing a Michael Jordan Bulls era show and it ends with them losing to the Pistons in the Eastern Conference finals and Jordan crying in the shower. 

[Mittens 8258]

I was in middle school in Leominster, MA during the 84 NBA playoffs.  Family got transferred to Massachusetts the summer before, and my mom had it in her head that the public schools were terrible in Mass, so I ended up in Catholic school, which I fucking hated w/ a passion.  Every day was started not only w/ the Pledge of Allegiance, but an Our Father and a Hail Mary.  Before the prayers, the teacher would ask us if there was anything special we wanted to pray for.  Some girl would raise her hand and ask us to pray for her Aunt Catherine who lived in Revere, and then 6 other girls would raise their hand and say they also wanted to pray for Sally's Aunt Catherine from Revere.  Then one of the guys would raise his hand and ask that we pray for Larry to go for 30 and a Celtics win.  One of my core memories of those 2 years living there. 

 

Bullshit that this series is done with.  So well done, and it hits home w/ such a major demographic, that I can't believe the numbers weren't better.  Like, what 40-60yr old sports watching male isn't watching this show?

[Js1 85275]

3 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Bullshit that this series is done with.  So well done, and it hits home w/ such a major demographic, that I can't believe the numbers weren't better.  Like, what 40-60yr old sports watching male isn't watching this show?

30% dip from season 1 premier to the the season 2 premier.  Season 1 ended with about 1.6m viewers. Season 2 premiered with 629k.

As the article I just read noted, Season 1 premiering during March Madness was genius.  Probably boosted viewership too - basketball fever at that time of year. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Js1

[BearSchlong 8083]

That scene where Bird told McHale he would break his neck if he apologized to Rambis was wild.

[chainsaw 9857]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

well then you probably shouldn't have read 18 pages about it.

only a problem if i'd done that. but also i know the gist of Laker history anyway.

[C-Man 27187]

14 hours ago, Reese Bennett said:

I can't believe they cancel while people are watching the last episode. Just a horrible decision and a really bad way of doing it.

So basically: "In any event, I've been made the new president of NBC HBO Max. As you may or may not know, Russell and I did not see eye to eye on many, many projects. And as my first order of business, I'm, uh, passing on your show."

[Guest]

7 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I'm OK with it. Now do the Bulls. Or the 70s Cowboys/Steelers.

90's Cowboys, but with a lot less owner bullshit.

 

Also from this last episode, loved Momma shit-talking Larry about Laimbeer.   Appels, trees, and whatnot...

[TrashMaster G 17547]

3 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

What a shame and a horrible way to end this show. There were at least 3 more seasons of gold to mine on this. Hell, they could have kept it going through the Kobe/Shaq years if they really wanted to. But I'm sure we will get some random Game of Thrones spin off instead. All the way up with a red hot poker, HBO.

The scene with Pat Riley breaking shit in his office hits close to home. I had a few friends who worked for the Spurs in the late 80's through the 90's and we had all sorts of access. We would play pick up games in the old Hemisfair Arena on off days type of shit. So one night the Spurs beat a Riley-coached team (and I can't remember if he was still coaching the Lakers or the Knicks at the time) and we were hanging around the locker room after the game. It wasn't a playoff game or anything, just your random mid-season game.

There was a curved hallway in the arena that connected the two locker rooms and it had an exit you could take back there as a short cut to your car. I was leaving the game with a buddy through that exit, and the only other person in the hallway was Riles. We were walking several feet behind him so he didn't see us and he thought he was alone. But you can tell he's super fucking pissed off and exasperated, with his hands on his head doing the surrender cobra and muttering something to himself. There is a plastic cup full of water sitting on the ground and Riley takes a quick step up to it and goes full Rafael Septien, spraying water everywhere including all over himself and his suit that probably cost more than my car back then. We started laughing at his little temper tantrum and that's when he noticed us. He turned around and gave us the nastiest "don't fuck with me" look ever, and we immediately stopped laughing. There was a half second of pure terror there when I thought he was going beat our ass, but he just turned around and walked back to the visitors locker room instead. My man was intense.

pos rep for the Rafael Septien reference.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Also from this last episode, loved Momma shit-talking Larry about Laimbeer.   Appels, trees, and whatnot...

I actually thought that was kind of an egregious mistake. In 1984, the Pistons and Laimbeer didn't have that sort of rep. They didn't have any kind of rep then, really. It wasn't really until Rick Mahorn joined the team that they started being the Bad Boys. And then everything got heated up in 1987 after Isiah threw the ball away.