American Happiness Reaches Five-decade Low

[BabaYaga 15202]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

That isn’t what I mean, and you likely know that.

I have a very strict moral compass

[Brisketexan 104465]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

What should we do when religion infringes on the pursuit of happiness of others?

That's what happens in late-stage institutional death.  This is my wife's wheelhouse -- her entire ministry is dedicated to the largest faith group in the country, the "spiritual but not religious."  

Today, when you say "church," what comes to mind?  Is it cruelty, demonization of the other, using their power/purported faith as a tool of control injected into politics?  Rape, molestation, and covering up/excusing same?  For most people, that's it.

What people DON'T think of is gathering place, place where we have potlucks and community events, where our kids can have a safe place to play and learn together, hub for service to our brothers and  sisters, etc.  Even to the extent that they think those things still exist within the institution.....it comes with all the baggage above, and the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Our institutions are dying, and for many of them, it's equal parts murder and suicide.  And as they decline, the suicide proportion only goes up.

[Smax 3799]

34 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Man, you shouldn’t. Spirituality is a huge part of peoples happiness, and while it would be best to put the debate of Gods existence on mute, the fact that our faiths have been weaponized in our all our politicians grab for power is fucking depressing.  

 

 

While religion and spirituality can go hand and hand, they are certainly not the same

 

Several good points made so far, Im in agreement, social media will be the end of us

Edited February 2, 2022 by Smax

[52-80 19066]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Today, when you say "church," what comes to mind?  Is it cruelty, demonization of the other, using their power/purported faith as a tool of control injected into politics?  Rape, molestation, and covering up/excusing same?  For most people, that's it.

Institutions that don't pay taxes.  If you do charitable stuff, register the charitable activities like other non-religious charitable groups.

Don't care if you practice wahbabism, zoroastrianism, animalism, buddhism, joel esteenism, its nobody's business.  Just pay yer damn taxes. 

[CooterBrown 17875]

If everyone had an external social group, even for an hour a week, it’d do wonders for mental health. Doesn’t really matter what it is …exercise, book club, bar crawls, etc.

Social media gives the illusion of friendships but it doesn’t require the commitment and work necessary to nurture actual friendships while providing none of the benefits.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Institutions that don't pay taxes.  If you do charitable stuff, register the charitable activities like other non-religious charitable groups.
Don't care if you practice wahbabism, zoroastrianism, animalism, buddhism, joel esteenism, its nobody's business.  Just pay yer damn taxes. 

Pay your taxes and don’t let your religious institutions influence laws and policies that affect other people’s happiness.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

1 minute ago, Smax said:

 

 

While religion and spirituality can go hand and hand, they are certainly not the same

They don’t, they are separate. Religious houses offer beacons for people with a common spirituality. By hi-jacking the houses, people looking for power have been able to hijack a lot of Americans spirituality. 

[South Austin 52037]

Gloom Merchant is my new goth band name.

[Brisketexan 104465]

If everyone had an external social group, even for an hour a week, it’d do wonders for mental health. Doesn’t really matter what it is …exercise, book club, bar crawls, etc.

Social media gives the illusion of friendships but it doesn’t require the commitment and work necessary to nurture actual friendships while providing none of the benefits.

Yep. And we’ve seen this coming for a while - see “Bowling Alone.”

The pandemic only made this isolation worse.

They don’t, they are separate. Religious houses offer beacons for people with a common spirituality. By hi-jacking the houses, people looking for power have been able to hijack a lot of Americans spirituality. 

Yep. Our church that we attended as a family provided us that common perspective, and a great community of peers and friends who remain an essential part of our social fabric. But it’s not a fundamentalist church. It’s not been co-opted as a political power. If it had been, we’d have been gone as would most of our peers….which is why a shitload of people HAVE abandoned church institutions. Which then leaves behind only the kind of people who would use the institution the wrong way, only exacerbating the problem.

[Foosters 17691]

Social media will be the end of us, for sure.

And LOL to those positing religion as the antidote. 

 

[workswithseed 2033]

15 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

 

While religion and spirituality can go hand and hand, they are certainly not the same

 

Several good points made so far, Im in agreement, social media will be the end of us

Exactly, the "I'm spiritual, but I don't believe in God," people make no sense to me.

[Brisketexan 104465]

Social media will be the end of us, for sure.
And LOL to those positing religion as the antidote. 
 

It’s like any other institution. It can be used to do good or harm. It all depends on the people within it and using it.

Clubs can be good or bad. The Elks Club is generally good. The Klan is generally bad. Both feed the same need - to belong and gather together around a common interest. One feeds it in a healthy way, and the Borge doesn’t.

Religious institutions can feed our need in good ways, or bad ways. And, as it tilts to a bad way, driving away the members who would prefer the good way, that only exacerbates all the bad tendencies.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I'm absolutely a gloom merchant, and it is entirely intentional.  I desperately wish that people would realize the perilous path we're on that makes the results of the survey we're talking about here inevitable.  Again, consistent with the analysis in The Fourth Turning, we are not in a good place.  We suffer from toxic individualism and almost blind anti-institutionalism.  And the side effects of those are well known: misery, despair, xenophobia, cruelty, all that shit.  Which then makes all of the bad shit a self-fulfilling prophecy (e.g., churches and organized religion are shitty institutions.....so we end up even FURTHER corrupting those institutions and using them as tools of control and cruelty at a heightened level).

We need to back up from the brink, not charge headlong towards it yelling "nobody can tell me what to do!  FREEDOM!".......but all we are doing is pushing the accelerator even harder.  It's really frustrating to watch.

You need to read Ray Dalio’s Principles for dealing with the Changing World Order. Our country is dealing with all kinds of changes that are cyclical and predictable, many economic. They go way beyond individualism vs collectivism. That’s just a symptom.

[bullzak 411]

1 hour ago, deadshank said:

I'm a happy dude.  I don't watch any sort of "news" put forth by CNN, Fox, MSNBC  and the like.  I will watch if there is an actual event and then turn it off when the commentators and "experts" start weighing in with rushed "gotta-be-first" opinions.

This here. Unplug all that bullshit and live your life. Voila. 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

26 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

They don’t, they are separate. Religious houses offer beacons for people with a common spirituality. By hi-jacking the houses, people looking for power have been able to hijack a lot of Americans spirituality. 

Butchering the quotation, but I believe a man wiser than me said something like "The problem with the Church is it is run by Christians."

[Doc Reeves 6434]

8 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Social media will be the end of us, for sure.

And LOL to those positing religion as the antidote. 

 

Woah, it most certainly isn’t. Recognizing what people who are trying to gobble up power are doing is what is important. No one is paying any real attention, everyone literally turns the light off when you start talking about church. And if the did care, who’s going to do anything? Scientology acts the way they do became they can. 

What everyone can mostly agree on is that religion offers some people something sometimes and that en mass it has good aspects and bad. One of the historical bad aspects of religion is its ability to grant legitimacy of power and thereby control of entire kingdoms and Empires.

This is truly a hijacking and just like a hijacking on a bus or plane, now it involves all of us like it or not. 
 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

1 hour ago, deadshank said:

I'm a happy dude.  I don't watch any sort of "news" put forth by CNN, Fox, MSNBC  and the like.  I will watch if there is an actual event and then turn it off when the commentators and "experts" start weighing in with rushed "gotta-be-first" opinions.

I look at IG for fun stuff, avoid Twitter and the twats that tweet.  Surly is always taken with a grain of salt even though most of you are magnificent bastards and many have world views that differ from mine; but, that is what makes it interesting.

I have two great mutts, a wife that leaves me off the leash and a deer camp I can go to and get away from the world and enjoy relaxed down time.

Never will I be a multi-millionaire and, while that's nice and what not, it would not make me happy and would only gain me access to things that are fleeting.

Life is too short to get caught up in the BS.

This is me 100%. At least from my lived experience, my most unhappy friends are those that watch cable news daily.

CSB Warning:

Spoiler

Along the lines of your post, my wife and I have been have some rough times, but it has led to some more personal conversations that we have unfortunately avoided despite the tenure of our lives together. She shared that she constantly haunted by regret - some seemingly small and some very large. My position is like yours: sure there are things in my life I regret, but I cannot change it and do not want to waste the present worried about the past. Conversely, I probably do worry to much about the future.

 

[bullzak 411]

My issue is I have always hated being talked "at." 

When you go to church, turn on news programming, or hit Twitter, somebody is always wagging a finger at you. Do that and I am out. 

Search deeply for wisdom and peace, strive for something better, sure, but no matter what find a way to live in the present moment. Took me half a century to get my hands around that idea. 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Just now, bullzak said:

My issue is I have always hated being talked "at." 

When you go to church, turn on news programming, or hit Twitter, somebody is always wagging a finger at you. Do that and I am out. 

Search deeply for wisdom and peace, strive for something better, sure, but no matter what find a way to live in the present moment. Took me half a century to get my hands around that idea. 

It takes a while for knowledge to turn to wisdom, but there is a lot of peace sometimes when that happens 

[washparkhorn 9931]

The GSS data for this 2020 report was gathered between May 21-29, 2020. 

 Please correct me if I am mistaken. 
 

[52-80 19066]

The world isnt ending next decade. The country wont be under permanent flooding. Fascists wont have enslaved all minorities. Politicians wont have eaten all the children. Cowflu wont have killed off half the population. We wont have irreparable moral decline and live in Mad Max society.

 

But Tom Brady will have mounted a comeback tour and won 3 more superbowls to make it 10 in his trophy collection. 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

11 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The GSS data for this 2020 report was gathered between May 21-29, 2020. 

 Please correct me if I am mistaken. 
 

That is how I read it. The press release was wonky as it said "first wave," but reading the footnotes it looks like all the exhibits were from that period.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

4 hours ago, Celery Man said:

also 900,000 people have died in a pandemic we haven't been able to unite around over 2 full fucking years.

I think we are all united. Corona sucks ass.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Today, when you say "church," what comes to mind?  Is it cruelty, demonization of the other, using their power/purported faith as a tool of control injected into politics?  Rape, molestation, and covering up/excusing same?  For most people, that's it.

That's because of something you eluded to earlier. There's an attack on traditional institutions exacerbated by corporate/social media. 

[crash_davis 23078]

i'm saddened by this news.

Edited February 2, 2022 by crash_davis

[ABSR 5289]

1 hour ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

It could be a 1000-page conversation, but I wonder if social media is the cause or a symptom. I certainly do not have an answer just posing the question. I wonder if deeper factors catalyze the effects of social media, and it simply exposes and exacerbates the "root causes." An analogy might be the effect violent video games or music have on violence: is a violent video game going to turn a non-violent person violent or just stoke an already internally violent person to act violently. Again, don't have any answers just asking questions. Of course without question social media enables everyone to feed those particular addictions (anger, jealousy, lust, envy, etc.).

I think "Social Media" is the wrong description, or only part of the issue.  It is really just information and it's availability.   Social Media is part of it, but just one part.

I remember reading a book about Chuck Yeager in the early 80's (May have been "The Right Stuff"), but in it he talked about growing up in Appalachia.  He talked about kids not having shoes and he and his friends being poor....but that he never KNEW he was poor until he left and joined the military.    There was the one "rich" family who owned the general store, but everyone else was the same.  And that "rich" family was the pinnacle of what rich could be.  So he wasn't poor, he was just the same as everyone else and had what everyone else had.  They didn't really know they could or should want anything more.

With the overwhelming information, media shows/clips, and social media (much of which is exaggerated or made up to drive interest), people can now measure their happiness not based on a smaller world view, but on the view of what they have in relationship to everyone else in the world.  

[StruggleBus 3922]

2 hours ago, Doc Reeves said:

Money, power, sex, big house, trips, fancy watch, slick customized cars, drugs that shit is all just fun and one of the most tucked up thing about being a human is that having fun won’t make you happy.

for instance, go buy a new Ferrari spider and drive that shit with the top down along the coast after your kid dies, see if it works. 

humans have actually been really worried about this proble for about 12k years and I think Americans pursue what they think/told will make them happy rather than what actually will

Money most definitely does make people happier, to an extent. Worrying about paying bills, retirement, etc. is a massive burden that is lifted with financial freedom. 

But yeah, your random guy with a $50 million net worth isn't going to be any happier than some other guy with a $5 million net worth. 

[WBT 20397]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

If you're ever feeling sorry for yourself, pick up Viktor Frankl and read.  

 

I think Emil Cioran covers this subject well

Quote

“It is not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late.”

“I don’t understand why we must do things in this world, why we must have friends and aspirations, hopes and dreams. Wouldn’t it be better to retreat to a faraway corner of the world, where all its noise and complications would be heard no more? Then we could renounce culture and ambitions; we would lose everything and gain nothing; for what is there to be gained from this world?”

“What do you do from morning to night?" ...  "I endure myself.”

“A zoologist who observed gorillas in their native habitat was amazed by the uniformity of their life and their vast idleness. Hours and hours without doing anything. Was boredom unknown to them? This is indeed a question raised by a human, a busy ape. Far from fleeing monotony, animals crave it, and what they most dread is to see it end. For it ends, only to be replaced by fear, the cause of all activity. Inaction is divine; yet it is against inaction that man has rebelled. Man alone, in nature, is incapable of enduring monotony, man alone wants something to happen at all costs — something, anything.... Thereby he shows himself unworthy of his ancestor: the need for novelty is the characteristic of an alienated gorilla.”

 

[BabaYaga 15202]

11 minutes ago, ABSR said:

I think "Social Media" is the wrong description, or only part of the issue.  It is really just information and it's availability.   Social Media is part of it, but just one part.

I remember reading a book about Chuck Yeager in the early 80's (May have been "The Right Stuff"), but in it he talked about growing up in Appalachia.  He talked about kids not having shoes and he and his friends being poor....but that he never KNEW he was poor until he left and joined the military.    There was the one "rich" family who owned the general store, but everyone else was the same.  And that "rich" family was the pinnacle of what rich could be.  So he wasn't poor, he was just the same as everyone else and had what everyone else had.  They didn't really know they could or should want anything more.

With the overwhelming information, media shows/clips, and social media (much of which is exaggerated or made up to drive interest), people can now measure their happiness not based on a smaller world view, but on the view of what they have in relationship to everyone else in the world.  

It's the algorithms intentionally designed to feed anger and angst that bother me.  Then you layer on the natural algorithm bias concerns, and it's a recipe for disaster.  These are not the days anymore when you had to manually sift through the data.  This leads to filter bubbles and other intentional or unintentional biases that lead to a homogeneity of information.  

They manipulate everyone that uses them to some extent.  Then you add another layer of bad actors weaponizing the platforms (troll farms, etc) and it's a huge mess.  

[Doc Reeves 6434]

2 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Money most definitely does make people happier, to an extent. Worrying about paying bills, retirement, etc. is a massive burden that is lifted with financial freedom. 

But yeah, your random guy with a $50 million net worth isn't going to be any happier than some other guy with a $5 million net worth. 

Let’s not mistake money with security. Sure, you want to have enough to be reasonably comfortable, but I’ve happened to have known many people with incredible wealth and I can say with all certainty that tragedy doesn’t care how much money you’ve got.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21780]

1 hour ago, huge said:

Should I feel bad (worse) that I am almost always happy as a clam?  I don't want others to suffer a second but man I don't want everyone else bringing me down either!

Are clams really happy?

[Captainant 27311]

22 minutes ago, ABSR said:

I think "Social Media" is the wrong description, or only part of the issue.  It is really just information and it's availability.   Social Media is part of it, but just one part.

I remember reading a book about Chuck Yeager in the early 80's (May have been "The Right Stuff"), but in it he talked about growing up in Appalachia.  He talked about kids not having shoes and he and his friends being poor....but that he never KNEW he was poor until he left and joined the military.    There was the one "rich" family who owned the general store, but everyone else was the same.  And that "rich" family was the pinnacle of what rich could be.  So he wasn't poor, he was just the same as everyone else and had what everyone else had.  They didn't really know they could or should want anything more.

With the overwhelming information, media shows/clips, and social media (much of which is exaggerated or made up to drive interest), people can now measure their happiness not based on a smaller world view, but on the view of what they have in relationship to everyone else in the world.  

 

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's the algorithms intentionally designed to feed anger and angst that bother me.  Then you layer on the natural algorithm bias concerns, and it's a recipe for disaster.  These are not the days anymore when you had to manually sift through the data.  This leads to filter bubbles and other intentional or unintentional biases that lead to a homogeneity of information.  

They manipulate everyone that uses them to some extent.  Then you add another layer of bad actors weaponizing the platforms (troll farms, etc) and it's a huge mess.  

I think y'all are both hitting the meat of the matter. Access to information has highlighted inequality and made us all more aware of what we do and don't have. Social media, and facebook specifically, are engineered to inflame anger and negative feelings due to the levels of engagement those emotions drive.

Coupled with the loss of social cohesion brought on by the pandemic, it's left millions to drift in whatever currents those for-profit companies want you to be in. It's purely exploitation of the discontent from watching the rich get richer since the 2008 downturn

[Newdoc 3429]

Likely need to make the distinction between "happiness" and "joy". Because happiness is very temporal and external. It is what self-help, consumerism, drugs, jobs, one night stands, political power, etc. tries to manipulate among us. I've known some very miserable rich and "successful" people. Social Media has driven the self pride and the "world revolves around me" to the stratosphere.  It's a fool's errand to chase it. Our society whether designed or evolved was not meant to function well the way it is now.

Joy is more in line with contentment and takes time to develop. It can be born out of struggle and pain. It can be selfless. It is definitely more satisfying. I know where I get my joy. I hope the widely different crew that post here can find and keep "joy" as well.

[BabaYaga 15202]

3 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Likely need to make the distinction between "happiness" and "joy".

Few other legs on that stool I'd mention as well:  contentment and gratitude

[deadshank 24651]

13 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Are clams really happy?

I’ve made a few very happy. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

5 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I’ve made a few very happy. 

EOT

Wrap it up.  We're done here!

[deadshank 24651]

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

 

I think y'all are both hitting the meat of the matter. Access to information has highlighted inequality and made us all more aware of what we do and don't have. Social media, and facebook specifically, are engineered to inflame anger and negative feelings due to the levels of engagement those emotions drive.

Coupled with the loss of social cohesion brought on by the pandemic, it's left millions to drift in whatever currents those for-profit companies want you to be in. It's purely exploitation of the discontent from watching the rich get richer since the 2008 downturn

While simplistic and, at the same time, completely true, all of that will sink its claws into you if you let it.  If you don’t play the game then you don’t engage with that which seeks to control you.  
 

You know the trolls.  You put them in ignore.
 

You know when your wife wants to fight and you engage her only to be sorry you did because no good came of it  

The advertisement for whatever item draws your eye promises happiness and fulfillment yet next year a new and better model comes to market and now your possession isn’t as good as the new one. 

At first it is difficult to pass on what the world, corporations, news outlets, politicians, car dealerships, seductive others and what ever have to gain your attention, money, mind and heart.  
 

It gets easier with time and perspective.   I am still working on it and have a long way to go.  Put the shovel down, get out of the hole and walk away.  
 

Everyday and more frequently I ask myself if something will really be a worthwhile difference in my life or just be another diversion.  
 

Your results may vary.  

[Armybrat 40678]

3 hours ago, Hate said:

It’s because people either post in the Cloakroom or watch cable TV news.

No, it’s because of 12 years of shitty football.

[Capt. Squints 176]

Personally, I think it all began with the Space Shuttle. The fucker pierced some sort of weather system up there and we've been on a downward spiral ever since.

[South Austin 52037]

I'm generally a happy guy, even though I took my bite of the shit sandwich in recent years.  One of the main reasons is that I'm constantly grateful for what I have. 

Could I have better job satisfaction, more financial security, more Surly rep, less frequent burning sensations on my penis?  Sure.  But an attitude of being thankful for what we have, rather than worried or envious over what we do not have, goes a long way in finding happiness.  I know . . . easier said than done and all.

While I've never thought that Matthew McConaughey was particularly deep or wise, he says some pretty basic but true shit here along those lines.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by South Austin

[markstanco 12489]

4 hours ago, Hate said:

It’s because people either post in the Cloakroom or watch cable TV news.

[Brisketexan 104465]

7 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I'm generally a happy guy, even though I took my bite of the shit sandwich in recent years.  One of the main reasons is that I'm constantly grateful for what I have. 

Could I have better job satisfaction, more financial security, more Surly rep, less frequent burning sensations on my penis?  Sure.  But an attitude of being thankful for what we have, rather than worried or envious over what we do not have, goes a long way in finding happiness.  I know . . . easier said than done and all.

I've never thought that Matthew McConaughey was particularly deep or wise, but he says some pretty basic but true shit here along those lines.

 

In which segment of that video does he mention "get high AF, and stay high AF?"  Because I think for old MM, that is perhaps an important material element he may have left out.

[CHIEF 5057]

1 hour ago, bullzak said:

This here. Unplug all that bullshit and live your life. Voila. 

Yep, Deadshank, bullzack, and HB have done what I have. Unplug and tune this shit out. CHIEF Jr. has no social media, at 23, and refuses to date any gal that does. Got rid of Tinder, Snapchat, etc...and is much happier for it. None of my family watches anything but local news, so we can watch the weather. Spend my time here, for any social media. Wife and I both have Facebook that we check on family and friends and their kids (offer condolences for deaths, happy anniversaries and birthdays). We may check it once a week each.

Social activities are Wednesday night at The 19th Hole, where we know everybody. We catch up on what's happening in the neighborhood. Saturday night is a fire in the fireplace on the back porch where we each invite a few friends over. 

I am perfectly happy going over to the shop to tinker to get out of the house, if I have no real estate showings scheduled. I'm getting ready to plant a garden. Life has never been better. 

CHIEF

[South Austin 52037]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

In which segment of that video does he mention "get high AF, and stay high AF?"  Because I think for old MM, that is perhaps an important material element he may have left out.

It's in one of his earliest seminars.

 

[Foosters 17691]

"We all have to die, but do we have to die bawling?"

-Epictetus

[52-80 19066]

you poor people have obviously never owned a jet ski

 

[Brisketexan 104465]

6 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Life has never been better. 

Bullshit.  I remember back when you had hair and could eat all the okra you wanted with no ill effects.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

you poor people have obviously never owned a jet ski

 

 

First time I rode one was pure joy. I will never forget it.

[Armybrat 40678]

Whataburger & DQ opened recently next to my neighborhood, so I’m good.

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

 

Obviously the poll didn't include this guy.