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NFL MVP is a bigger joke than the Heisman

ztejas

By ztejas
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ztejas

ztejas 43537

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Just saw that Rodgers is the 9th straight QB to win NFL MVP.

What are we doing here? Award needs to be split up or criteria needs to be altered. Obviously quarterback is the most impactful position. There needs to be a separate award for whoever elevated themselves the most above their position. i.e who was the best player in the league. That wasn't Rodgers. 

I'm not sure how to restructure it but this shit is stupid. There are years where the best QB was actually the best player but this year wasn't one of them.

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C-Man

C-Man 27262

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The awards are for the regular season and are not announced until a few days before the Super Bowl. When a player face-plants in the playoffs, as Rodgers is wont to do these days, getting named league MVP a couple weeks later is bizarre. At least the Heisman is given immediately after the regular season ends before any bowl games are played.

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Codaxx

Codaxx 5844

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24 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

4 mvp awards now for the guy who doesn’t throw interceptions which is his only remarkable trait lol. Fuck the nfl. Derek Henry rushed for 2k yards last year with 17 td’s on the ground in a predominantly pass happy league. How is that not the mvp? 

I would rather see that award go to the TItan's OL, than Henry. Hard to get excited, when his replacement matched his yards per carry. That is this year, but it shows you how well they block. He had 954 rushing yards BEFORE contact and 1074 after. Give a big man time to get going and he will do damage.

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6021

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51 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Shit, Rodgers wasn't even Top 10 in Approximate Value this season.

 

Screen Shot 2022-02-11 at 7.31.47 AM.png

I mean... from the creater of AV:

If one player is a 16 and another is a 14, we can't be very confident that the 16AV player actually had a better season than the 14AV player.

Jalen Hurts anywhere inside top-200 is a tough look for that metric

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C-Man

C-Man 27262

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I mean... from the creater of AV:
If one player is a 16 and another is a 14, we can't be very confident that the 16AV player actually had a better season than the 14AV player.

Jalen Hurts anywhere inside top-200 is a tough look for that metric


Agreed. He sticks out like a sore thumb on that Top 10 for sure. The rest of it looks pretty good, though.
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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4094

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2 hours ago, Codaxx said:

I would rather see that award go to the TItan's OL, than Henry. Hard to get excited, when his replacement matched his yards per carry. That is this year, but it shows you how well they block. He had 954 rushing yards BEFORE contact and 1074 after. Give a big man time to get going and he will do damage.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TDavenport_NFL/status/1450267981217509379?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1450267981217509379|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-4341256982055323755.ampproject.net%2F2201262038001%2Fframe.html

Derek Henry is a freak and not your typical “big man”, he’s running very fast from his first couple steps. He faces 8 man boxes often and let’s be honest here in that d’onta foreman doesn’t scare anybody. Lol. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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9 hours ago, ztejas said:

Just saw that Rodgers is the 9th straight QB to win NFL MVP.

What are we doing here? Award needs to be split up or criteria needs to be altered. Obviously quarterback is the most impactful position. There needs to be a separate award for whoever elevated themselves the most above their position. i.e who was the best player in the league. That wasn't Rodgers. 

I'm not sure how to restructure it but this shit is stupid. There are years where the best QB was actually the best player but this year wasn't one of them.

there is no difference in rodgers, mahomes, brady, or allen. then you have jonathan taylor who not only leads the league in TDs, but is something like 500+ rushing yards ahead of the no.2 guy in the league. and that was with 3/5 of his nadas O-line missing significant time. of course he can't win it, because his pussy ass team couldn't even beat the Jaguars to get into the playoffs. still, i would have rather seen someone like Taylor win it than another QB who isn't really any better or more of a winner than plenty others at his position. i wouldn't mind Cooper Kupp either, although guys like JJ, Tyreek, Adams, Deebo, etc all had amazing seasons themselves.

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Codaxx

Codaxx 5844

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38 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

there is no difference in rodgers, mahomes, brady, or allen. then you have jonathan taylor who not only leads the league in TDs, but is something like 500+ rushing yards ahead of the no.2 guy in the league. and that was with 3/5 of his nadas O-line missing significant time. of course he can't win it, because his pussy ass team couldn't even beat the Jaguars to get into the playoffs. still, i would have rather seen someone like Taylor win it than another QB who isn't really any better or more of a winner than plenty others at his position. i wouldn't mind Cooper Kupp either, although guys like JJ, Tyreek, Adams, Deebo, etc all had amazing seasons themselves.

IF anyone deserves it on offense it is Cooper Kupp and I dont think it is even close. Almost 2,000 yards and he is probably the best blocking WR in the game. Rams actually pull him into a hole as a lead blocker. Rams are in deep shit without Kupp. I would say Micah Parsons deserves some votes. Cowboys are complete dogshit without him. He is the biggest reason that defense went from historically shit, to the main reason the Cowboys made the playoffs. 

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shadow_operative

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15 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

IF anyone deserves it on offense it is Cooper Kupp and I dont think it is even close. Almost 2,000 yards and he is probably the best blocking WR in the game. Rams actually pull him into a hole as a lead blocker. Rams are in deep shit without Kupp. I would say Micah Parsons deserves some votes. Cowboys are complete dogshit without him. He is the biggest reason that defense went from historically shit, to the main reason the Cowboys made the playoffs. 

the Niners probably don't make the playoffs without Deebo Samuel. and again, while Cupp had a spectacular season, his performance relative to his peers doesn't come close to what JT accomplished, again, behind a subpar O line on a team where he was the sole focus of every defense they played.

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Codaxx

Codaxx 5844

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10 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

the WR position in the NFL is probably the most loaded position in all of sports. it's insane how deep the talent goes. 

Total Yards

Taylor - 2,171

Kupp- 1,993

Deebo- 1,845

 

The difference I would say between them is the Rams and the 49ers would have to make major changes to their offense if they lost Kupp or Deebo. I wouldnt say that about the Colts. That is also why QBs win the award all the time. 

 

 

Edited by Codaxx
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6 hours ago, WinningIsHard said:

4 mvp awards now for the guy who doesn’t throw interceptions which is his only remarkable trait lol. Fuck the nfl. Derek Henry rushed for 2k yards last year with 17 td’s on the ground in a predominantly pass happy league. How is that not the mvp? 

Devils' advocate- his team was the 1 Seed without having him for 9 games in 2021.

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Zeus

Zeus 6126

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Would be great if he went to Denver and rode off into the sunset like Elway and Manning. Somehow the Broncos are just easy to root for. 

The Packers are dipshits for wasting a 1st round pick on his backup instead of getting him more weapons. 

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DaggerHorns

DaggerHorns 3086

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2 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Total Yards

Taylor - 2,171

Kupp- 1,993

Deebo- 1,845

 

The difference I would say between them is the Rams and the 49ers would have to make major changes to their offense if they lost Kupp or Deebo. I wouldnt say that about the Colts. That is also why QBs win the award all the time. 

 

 

Deebo is really good. He was playing Running back and receiver all the time. He definitely deserved to be in the conversation and I fucking hate the 49ers.

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

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1 hour ago, Zeus said:

The Packers are dipshits for wasting a 1st round pick on his backup instead of getting him more weapons. 

Im not enamored with Love. But it’s worth noting someone could have written this same thing after the 2005 draft.

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Codaxx

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36 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

Derek Henry played all 16 games in 2020 when he should have been the mvp lol. The 2021 mvp should have been Tom Brady. 

That wasn’t the point. If he was really the MVP the team should have fallen off without him. They didn’t miss a beat 

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Had Enough

Had Enough 2088

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Deebo is really good. He was playing Running back and receiver all the time. He definitely deserved to be in the conversation and I fucking hate the 49ers.

The 49ers were 3-5. Then they put Deebo in the backfield or at least started making a concerted effort to get him involved in the run game. Then went 9-3.

That’s MVP type results.

Now the Chiefs beat GB because Rodgers didn’t play highlighting the need to have him play. It also highlighted the buffoonery. So there’s probably some justification there.

Deebos a unique dude on the field. Kinda wish some dudes would go beyond QB in their voting.
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DougO

DougO 5256

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I would have voted for Deebo Samuel, goes far beyond stats. The Niners are shit without what he did for them.  Cooper Kupp's monster season was also worth consideration. He took a major step and became a much stronger player, amazing receiving year.

Rodgers had a good year, only 4 picks is pretty nuts, but there are a bunch of qbs that have a claim, and it's always lazy to pick a qb.

 

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6021

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7 hours ago, WinningIsHard said:

Derek Henry played all 16 games in 2020 when he should have been the mvp lol. The 2021 mvp should have been Tom Brady. 

why? when he was down to 2 all-pro level receiving threats instead of his standard 4 and no rb his team managed 0 points against NO. Then they were dragged into scoring points via turnover by the Rams, but it had little to do with the quality of the qb play

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6021

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9 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

why? when he was down to 2 all-pro level receiving threats instead of his standard 4 and no rb his team managed 0 points against NO. Then they were dragged into scoring points via turnover by the Rams, but it had little to do with the quality of the qb play

to elaborate a tiny bit: When Roders was removed from GB for a week, they looked like boiled cat shit. And when GB's top 4 receiving threats were out against a then-undefeated Cardinals team, they still won despite some sketchy officiating that went against GB.

Meanwhile, TB12's efficacy basically relied on him playing with a STACKED deck

 

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formermav43

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6 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

to elaborate a tiny bit: When Roders was removed from GB for a week, they looked like boiled cat shit. And when GB's top 4 receiving threats were out against a then-undefeated Cardinals team, they still won despite some sketchy officiating that went against GB.

Meanwhile, TB12's efficacy basically relied on him playing with a STACKED deck

 

Not to mention playing the whole season behind a patchwork OL.

I think there are good arguments for players other than a QB (Samuel, Kupp, Taylor). MVP has definitely become too QB-centric. But the arguments for a QB other than Rodgers aren’t as strong.

Edited by formermav43
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Had Enough

Had Enough 2088

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Not to mention playing the whole season behind a patchwork OL.
I think there are good arguments for players other than a QB (Samuel, Kupp, Taylor). MVP has definitely become too QB-centric. But the arguments for a QB other than Rodgers aren’t as strong.

And Brady’s Oline was nowhere near a patchwork unit. Hardly any missed starts. They did get banged up in the playoffs.

Thing is that statistically the non-QB group you reference had incredible years. Yet they still couldn’t wrestle it away from the QB. Hard to imagine a WR ever having a better year and certainly not substantially better.

You could probably throw Watt and Donald in the mix too.
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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4094

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9 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

why? when he was down to 2 all-pro level receiving threats instead of his standard 4 and no rb his team managed 0 points against NO. Then they were dragged into scoring points via turnover by the Rams, but it had little to do with the quality of the qb play

Packers scored 3 points and Aaron Rodgers was 15/28 130 yards, 0 Td’s and 2 Int’s against that same NO team. Possibly his last game as a packer, in lambeau mind you, he didn’t throw a TD pass against the 49’ers. This is all while having Davante Adams who is practically impossible to guard a whole game and a bad ass Offensive coach in Lafleur. Fuck Aaron Rodgers. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43537

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4 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Not to mention playing the whole season behind a patchwork OL.

I think there are good arguments for players other than a QB (Samuel, Kupp, Taylor). MVP has definitely become too QB-centric. But the arguments for a QB other than Rodgers aren’t as strong.

Agree.

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

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2 hours ago, WinningIsHard said:

Packers scored 3 points and Aaron Rodgers was 15/28 130 yards, 0 Td’s and 2 Int’s against that same NO team. Possibly his last game as a packer, in lambeau mind you, he didn’t throw a TD pass against the 49’ers. This is all while having Davante Adams who is practically impossible to guard a whole game and a bad ass Offensive coach in Lafleur. Fuck Aaron Rodgers. 

MVP votes are already in before the playoffs. Most of that is completely irrelevant.

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