I want to tell you all the story about The Freshman

[hpslugga 4,039]

On Saturday November 16th 2002, we went out for an early afternoon playoff game in Mesquite at Hanby Stadium against Sulphur Springs. Our quarterback, DFW Offensive Player of the year Bill Foran, sat out the game due to a high ankle sprain he suffered 2 weeks earlier in the district championship against Wylie. Our starting QB that afternoon was our strong safety, Rob Rain. 

Behind Rob was this pudgy, doughy white 14 year old freshman. He had just moved up to the varsity roster, the first freshman to do so since Lance McIlhenny around a quarter century before.

This kid would run past me every day on the way to practice because in 9th grade, you’re told to run your ass to practice from 7th period since we don’t have time to fuck around. Because the first thing varsity players would do after 7th period was watch film, get taped up, have position meetings, etc, none of us had the need to haul ass to practice like freshmen did. When he’d pass me (or anyone else), he’d always say “excuse me, sir.” Sir? I’m 18 years old and this 14 year old is calling me “sir?” Damn.

When we got near the end of practice we always had to go to the sideline to do wind sprints for conditioning and we did them by position groups so it had the feel of a legit race. They put The Freshman with us kickers since, as Coach Randy Allen put it to him, that’s what his speed and conditioning indicated. Of course the two of us (starter Ryan Wolcott and myself) would whip his ass. He actually went over to the side to puke after Monday’s conditioning.

Anyways, cut to the 4th quarter of this first round game against Sulphur Springs. We had just scored a touchdown to go up 44-7 (or something to that effect). I was called on to execute the sky/pooch kickoff since it was against the wind. 

The upback let the ball go through his arms, bounced between his legs and one of our guys recovered the muff. 

On the very next play, The Freshman was put in. He didn’t throw a single pass across the line of scrimmage but still managed to conduct a touchdown drive to make it 51-7. We ended up winning 51-15. 

Tonight, almost 20 years later, that very same Freshman led his team on a game winning TD drive in the Super Bowl and is very likely bound for Canton.

Edited February 14, 2022 by hpslugga

[naija 2,851]

His candidacy will be a hot debate.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, naija said:

His candidacy will be a hot debate.

No, it won’t. He’s first ballot. 

[JOSEYWALES66 1,790]

Canton?  Little early to talk about Canton at this point. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,321]

Bout time that guy caught a break in life. 

[naija 2,851]

5 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

No, it won’t. He’s first ballot. 

you  might want to look at the list of players this year that were 1st ballot and didn't get in and then argue that point again...

[Helobious 9,477]

I’m glad you through in the “white” descriptor for a Highland Park player. Never would have guessed.

[someguy 1,472]

wait, do people actually think Stafford is a hall of famer?

[ztejas 43,244]

[Pato del Muerto 52,321]

2 minutes ago, someguy said:

wait, do people actually think Stafford is a hall of famer?

50,000 passing yards, 300 touchdown passes, and now Super Bowl champ?  Which qbs have those 3 and aren’t in the hall?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, naija said:

you  might want to look at the list of players this year that were 1st ballot and didn't get in and then argue that point again...

None as impactful as Stafford - not by a long shot. Only Ware has an argument. Maybe he’s not a 1st ballot guy but QBs typically are. If Eli makes it in ‘25, Stafford will because he’s considerably better. 

 

6 minutes ago, someguy said:

wait, do people actually think Stafford is a hall of famer?

There is no question. 

[Surly Bevo 24,692]

The issue for Stafford will not be getting in but first ballot.....that's not happening at this point.  You got Brees as first ballot, Brady as fucking 5 second conversation (if that) first ballot.  Rothliesberger also retiring and more highly considered than Stafford and of course A-Douche at some point in the next few years.  There are A LOT of QBs coming down the track in the next 5-10 years and in the interest of creating tier distinction guys like Stafford will be made to wait....

[Atlas 25]

Another shocking, look at me slugga moment from the hilltop. 

[Fondren & Main 6,658]

 

[hpslugga 4,039]

11 minutes ago, someguy said:

wait, do people actually think Stafford is a hall of famer?

Just the ones who don’t deal in Make Believe 

[Pato del Muerto 52,321]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

The issue for Stafford will not be getting in but first ballot.....that's not happening at this point.  You got Brees as first ballot, Brady as fucking 5 second conversation (if that) first ballot.  Rothliesberger also retiring and more highly considered than Stafford and of course A-Douche at some point in the next few years.  There are A LOT of QBs coming down the track in the next 5-10 years and in the interest of creating tier distinction guys like Stafford will be made to wait....

Brees is a year ahead of Ben and Brady. He will go in first ballot both for his performance and his work with the community of NO. No reason to talk about Brady but ben will go in with him because titles, stats, and lifelong steeler. 
 

if Stafford is up the same year as rodgers than maybe they push him a year. 

[someguy 1,472]

we'll see.  I'm not passionate enough about the topic to argue, and i very well may be wrong.  I personally have a hard time seeing a guy who was an All Pro once in 13 years be a hall of famer.  I guess I never considered Stafford a top 5 QB in the league at any given point.  Time will tell, but I think he is firmly in the hall of very good, along with Romo, Brunell and Eli Manning.

[Surly Bevo 24,692]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Brees is a year ahead of Ben and Brady. He will go in first ballot both for his performance and his work with the community of NO. No reason to talk about Brady but ben will go in with him because titles, stats, and lifelong steeler. 
 

if Stafford is up the same year as rodgers than maybe they push him a year. 

Oh I wouldn't even say it's about if there is any other QBs in the same potential class.  It's that with Brees, Brady and Big Ben coming in and easily all first year and Aaron Rogers trailing maybe just a few years behind that that even if Stafford is in a QB class of 1 in terms of eligibility the voters may say "yea he isn't those other 4 so he can wait a bit and let's see who else needs to get in"

[Ignatius 3,995]

6 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

 

Lulz this is totally what I came here to post…

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

The issue for Stafford will not be getting in but first ballot.....that's not happening at this point.  You got Brees as first ballot, Brady as fucking 5 second conversation (if that) first ballot.  Rothliesberger also retiring and more highly considered than Stafford and of course A-Douche at some point in the next few years.  There are A LOT of QBs coming down the track in the next 5-10 years and in the interest of creating tier distinction guys like Stafford will be made to wait....

Warren Moon is a first ballot guy. Stafford will be way behind Brees, Brady, and likely Rodgers in terms of eligibility. All are surefire 1st ballot guys. Watch what happens with Ben, Eli and Rivers, in that order. Ben and Eli are more accomplished but Stafford and Rivers are/were better. Stafford is more deserving of those guys, with probably 5 or so more seasons to play.  

[Billy Pilgrim 1,912]

Should’ve ended the OP with: “and now you know the rest of the story. I’m Paul Harvey- good day”

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, someguy said:

we'll see.  I'm not passionate enough about the topic to argue, and i very well may be wrong.  I personally have a hard time seeing a guy who was an All Pro once in 13 years be a hall of famer.  I guess I never considered Stafford a top 5 QB in the league at any given point.  Time will tell, but I think he is firmly in the hall of very good, along with Romo, Brunell and Eli Manning.

Eli will be there. You cannot put Stafford in the same category as those 3; he’s far better. He withered in Detroit and for the back half of his years there had nobody to throw to. He was unquestionably a Top 5 guy this year (Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Stafford and Allen). No, Burrow and Herbert aren’t better than him yet and Stafford was arguably better than Mahomes this year. 

[naija 2,851]

11 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

None as impactful as Stafford - not by a long shot. Only Ware has an argument. Maybe he’s not a 1st ballot guy but QBs typically are. If Eli makes it in ‘25, Stafford will because he’s considerably better. 

 

There is no question. 

You are giving Stafford 2 bonus points because of his longevity and position. Sure, voters might do the same, but they are as likely to see past those things and recalibrate.

Stafford has 1 Pro Bowl. Eli has 4. Stafford has 1 SB (left his original team to do it), Eli has 2 Super Bowls and was the MVP in both of those, as the underdog in both and in one of those, beat an undefeated team. Stafford filled up the stat sheet quicker, but I don't think in the metrics that count most for HOF honors, that he is on the same level as Eli.

[DaysOff 7,821]

Warren Moon is better than everyone mentioned thus far, and I only read two responses.

[crimsonlonghorn 2,306]

He probably should be, especially if he leads the Rams to a few more good seasons. But I don’t think he’s quite “definitely” yet. 
 

Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, and Brad Johnson also won Super Bowls, so that’s not an automatic qualifier. Your freshman is definitely better than those three, though, I will agree. 

[ztejas 43,244]

Stafford's better than Eli minus a ring. I wouldn't put him above Ben yet. I think they all end up in the hall. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, naija said:

You are giving Stafford 2 bonus points because of his longevity and position. Sure, voters might do the same, but they are as likely to see past those things and recalibrate.

Stafford has 1 Pro Bowl. Eli has 4. Stafford has 1 SB (left his original team to do it), Eli has 2 Super Bowls and was the MVP in both of those, as the underdog in both and in one of those, beat an undefeated team. Stafford filled up the stat sheet quicker, but I don't think in the metrics that count most for HOF honors, that he is on the same level as Eli.

Regardless of who was MVP tonight, the Rams weren’t winning anything with Goff. His addition made the difference. You can say Miller and OBJ helped and they did, but they would’ve won without them tonight (and it was Stafford to Kupp the whole second half with OBJ out). I told friends at the end of the game with Stafford’s picks the MVP should go to either Kupp or Donald. 

His Pro Bowls are a travesty. For some reason Murray and Cousins made it over Stafford this season, which is totally ridiculous. That shit, along with playing with a shit franchise in a conference with Rodgers, Brees and Wilson. Goff and Cousins and Dak have more appearances than Stafford and he’s twice the QB. Bad things happen in Detroit. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Porterhouse

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Warren Moon is better than everyone mentioned thus far, and I only read two responses.

Moon didn’t perform like a first ballot guy (which is why I listed him), and though good for his era, never won anything of substance. And Moon isn’t in the same breath as Brady, Peyton, Brees or Rodgers. 

[hpslugga 4,039]

6 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Regardless of who was MVP tonight, the Rams weren’t winning anything with Goff. His addition made the difference. You can say Miller and OBJ helped and they did, but they would’ve won without them tonight (and it was Stafford to Kupp the whole second half with OBJ out). I told friends at the end of the game with Stafford’s picks the MVP should go to either Kupp or Donald. 

His Pro Bowls are a travesty. For some reason Murray and Cousins made it over Stafford this season, which is totally ridiculous. That shit, along with playing with a shit franchise with Rodgers, Brees and Wilson. Goff and Cousins and Dak have more appearances than Stafford and he’s twice the QB. Bad things happen in Detroit. 

And that’s the only lesson that was learned by people with minds worth a shit who observed it. Detroit is a dumpster fire of an organization.

Back in the day, it was trendy for some people to make the argument “well if Barry played for Dallas and Emmitt for Detroit…” I’ve had the same arguments with people about Stafford and my position is as follows:

If Ben Roethlisberger played for the Lions and Stafford for Pittsburgh:

Ben would have been one of those joke comedy guys that was always seen getting drunk and hitting on girls in public, and Matthew would have won multiple rings early in his career. Ben was fortunate to be supported by a well run organization with impeccable coaching from beginning to end and there’s no fucking way he wins two Super Bowls as Detroit’s QB. 

As to your comment about Cousins, yes. Only a worthless goober would say “yes, Cousins deserves a pro bowl nomination over Matthew Stafford.”

[Had Enough 2,054]

……OBJ helped and they did, but they would’ve won without them tonight

This is cowardly and probably not correct. The Rams O was pretty stagnant without Odell.


I kinda like Goff so I’m not totally conceding this is the difference. Maybe Stafford was so good because of the other weapons the Rams have.

McVay does some nice things. But Akers is not one of them. Continuously running tonight was not a good thing tonight either, Akers or no Akers.

[StassneyHorn 6,534]

He is a hall of famer. He is better than Eli. 1st ballot argument I don’t understand, as long as you get in. If he was on any other team/market he has way more pro bowls 

[futureman 22,411]

55 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Brady as fucking 5 second conversation (if that) first ballot. 

what a fucking asinine thing to type. there is no conversation. none. 

[Surly Bevo 24,692]

2 minutes ago, futureman said:

what a fucking asinine thing to type. there is no conversation. none. 

I mean even with zero debate....the formalities take a few seconds, what an asinine thing to say...you think all these voters have ESP. 

 

How long did it take to vote Peyton Manning into the Hall of Fame?

 

 

A Walter Payton Man of the Year recipient and the first quarterback to win a Super Bowl with two separate franchises, Peyton Manning's first ballot Hall of Fame status was inevitable, as evidenced by the 12 seconds it took to convince the committee to induct him

[futureman 22,411]

peyton manning was a great player.

tom brady is the greatest football player in the history of the game. there will be no conversation. it’s decided now. he’s in. your statement of five seconds was five too many and it was stupid. 

[Had Enough 2,054]

As to your comment about Cousins, yes. Only a worthless goober would say “yes, Cousins deserves a pro bowl nomination over Matthew Stafford.”

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_adv

That link may not work but it’s Pro Football Focus advanced passing stats. Cousins offensive line is not good. Pocket time is the same as Staffords yet the pressure rate is 10% higher. Cousins bad throw % and on target throw % are better than Staffords.

I’m not saying Cousins is better, but there are stats that say Cousins is a good QB. In the two prior years Cousins had more time but was quite accurate.

[hpslugga 4,039]

3 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_adv

That link may not work but it’s Pro Football Focus advanced passing stats. Cousins offensive line is not good. Pocket time is the same as Staffords yet the pressure rate is 10% higher. Cousins bad throw % and on target throw % are better than Staffords.

I’m not saying Cousins is better, but there are stats that say Cousins is a good QB. In the two prior years Cousins had more time but was quite accurate.

Not saying he isn’t good, just that the idea of him deserving a PB nomination ahead of Stafford is a bad joke.

Edited February 14, 2022 by hpslugga

[hpslugga 4,039]

9 minutes ago, futureman said:

peyton manning was a great player.

tom brady is the greatest football player in the history of the game. there will be no conversation. it’s decided now. he’s in. your statement of five seconds was five too many and it was stupid. 

I mean I suppose they gotta plan how they’re gonna tell him and what day….

[Zeus 5,943]

This is hilarious the anarchist communist gets called out for being a rich spoiled huwhite kid

[Zeus 5,943]

12 minutes ago, futureman said:

peyton manning was a great player.

tom brady is the greatest football player in the history of the game. there will be no conversation. it’s decided now. he’s in. your statement of five seconds was five too many and it was stupid. 

The five seconds may be used to make another hall of goat fame that's just him alone probably forever. I hate hate hate the Patriots but he's the goat.

[C-Man 26,991]

Stafford is in the HOF after tonight. Period. LOL at anybody thinking otherwise.

It's pretty wild that Highland Park's Class of 2006 is going to have two HOF'ers in it in two different sports.

[hpslugga 4,039]

Just now, C-Man said:

LOL at anybody thinking otherwise.

Honestly I see that in the same context as some grade school kid that pulls his pants down at recess just so the rest of the students will look at him. I mean it’s either that or a stupid person expressing what they think is a smart thing to say.

[Hozz 1,012]

Put down the crack pipe. No way in hell Stafford gets into the Hall with just one Super Bowl win.  He's like a .500 QB.

[C-Man 26,991]

8 minutes ago, Hozz said:

Put down the crack pipe. No way in hell Stafford gets into the Hall with just one Super Bowl win.  He's like a .500 QB.

He is 100% getting in with the Super Bowl championship that he won tonight. He was a great player for so many years on a fucking terribly run franchise in Detroit.

[hpslugga 4,039]

Just now, C-Man said:

He is 100% getting in with the Super Bowl championship that he won tonight. He was a great player for so many years on a fucking terribly run franchise in Detroit.

And the whole 50,000 yards and 300 TD’s thing. But that never resonates with some 

[Hozz 1,012]

9 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

And the whole 50,000 yards and 300 TD’s thing. But that never resonates with some 

Matt Ryan has objectively better stats than Stafford.  Is he getting into the Hall?  No, he isn't.

[Underdog 28,437]

7 hours ago, futureman said:

what a fucking asinine thing to type. there is no conversation. none. 

Tuck Rule.  Spygate.  Deflategate.  There’ll be discussion believe that.  
 

Also, Stafford 1-0 over Brady in PO, on the road, therefore, Stafford >>> Brady. 

[hpslugga 4,039]

3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

I expect he will make the Hall of Fame with his cumulative stats, but it’s a closer call than a high school buddy would make it appear.  

I appreciate you trying to make it about that, but the problem is I’m not the only one making that case. Not really sure why you felt compelled to post this.

Again, he’s 12th all time in both yardage and TD’s and I would encourage you to look at both those lists, both above and immediately below him. As you do that, also filter out the guys who never won a SB. Here’s what you’re left with that fit that description from 1st to 15th

Brady
Brees
P. Manning
Favre
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
E. Manning
Elway
R. Wilson

The ones who are available for induction are already in and it’s a fool’s errand to argue the rest won’t. 

3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

He’s below 0.500 for his career,

Which speaks volumes about the suckitude of the Lions organization. You can’t just wave your hand and pretend that’s not a factor. 

3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Stafford is definitely better than Goff, but this isn’t Tom Brady stepping into Tampa and instantly turning a shit loser team into a Super Bowl winner.  

No one is saying that it is. What honest people are saying is that it’s possible for a player to have an HOF-worthy career for a shit team. All last night did was end the argument.

Look, I appreciate the fact that there are people, for their own petty reasons, who do not want him in the HOF but I say the same thing to them as I did to Soul Glo regarding Warren Moon’s induction in 2006 right before it was announced: y’all are gonna have to give that shit up.

Edited February 14, 2022 by hpslugga

[jimmyjazz 45,513]

I've never understood how some see a Super Bowl ring as the tipping point between a HOF career and one that isn't.  Dilfer is a great example.  I honestly didn't think Eli merited HOF consideration after his first SB victory, but #2 changed it for me.

It's a different sport, and probably a poor analogy, but the most known example of a great player making the HOF out of a shit franchise is Ernie Banks.  He was a better player in his sport than Stafford, though.  Still, first ballot.  Nobody held the Cubs against him.

I don't really see any reason for Stafford to be left out of the Hall at this point.

[Pam Cummings 9,553]

If Tony Boselli is a HOFer then Matthew Stafford is 100% a HOFer.

[hpslugga 4,039]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

It's a different sport, and probably a poor analogy, but the most known example of a great player making the HOF out of a shit franchise is Ernie Banks.  He was a better player in his sport than Stafford, though.  Still, first ballot.  Nobody held the Cubs against him.

Right and no one held…well…Detroit against Barry Sanders either.

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I don't really see any compelling reason for Stafford to be left out of the Hall at this point.

FIFY