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Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 4:17 AM, Porterhouse said:

Moon didn’t perform like a first ballot guy (which is why I listed him), and though good for his era, never won anything of substance. And Moon isn’t in the same breath as Brady, Peyton, Brees or Rodgers. 

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Moon was better than good for any era. And he had to spend his first 5 years in the CFL because of his skin color

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Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:12 AM, C-Man said:

Stafford is in the HOF after tonight. Period. LOL at anybody thinking otherwise.

It's pretty wild that Highland Park's Class of 2006 is going to have two HOF'ers in it in two different sports.

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Reminds me of Bay City HS in the 80s. Not in the same grade, but in one 4A small-town school at one time you had the nation's number one football recruit (Hart Lee Dykes), basketball recruit (LaBradford Smith), and kind lost in the shuffle, a future Olympic gold medal sprinter in Joe DeLoach. He was the only one who did not kind of disappoint.

  On 2/14/2022 at 6:11 AM, Hozz said:

Matt Ryan has objectively better stats than Stafford.  Is he getting into the Hall?  No, he isn't.

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If the Falcons held that lead against Brady he'd be in.

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Posted (edited)
  On 2/14/2022 at 3:19 AM, naija said:

His candidacy will be a hot debate.

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  On 2/14/2022 at 3:20 AM, Porterhouse said:

No, it won’t. He’s first ballot. 

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  On 2/14/2022 at 3:21 AM, JOSEYWALES66 said:

Canton?  Little early to talk about Canton at this point. 

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He's only 34 and has a very very strong arm. As long as he stays healthy I think he could chalk out a good rest of his career in LA.

 

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12th in all time passing yards, add this super bowl and the drive he orchestrated to take the lead. He likely ends up top 5 on that list along with Rodgers. I'm not sure how much Matt Ryan has left in him either. 

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He for sure ends up top 10 in passing touchdowns.

 

I find the amount of times sacked to be interesting considering the length of his career so far

 

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Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted (edited)

Hat tip to Tarkington who played in the 60s and 70s and is still on the yardage and td list in the company of all these qbs from the last 30 years when passing became more prominent. Only been passed by 13 (and 10 for tds) of them so far. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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Posted

Stafford is one of those who will be hotly debated. Heck, he wasn't even the best QB on the field last night. He had much more time to throw than Burrow and still was airmailing throws all over the place before that last drive. 

His passing yards numbers are the arguments in his favor - fastest player to 20, 30, 40, and 45,000 yards.  Likely the fastest to 50,000 yards after next year. 

Arguments against - zero all pro teams and only one pro bowl. The only way he gets in is if he's graded on a curve for being a part of some terrible Lions teams.

He also is hampered by the fact that he played during a time where there are a LOT of QBs more deserving (and were better). 

Unfortunately I think he belongs in the "Hall of Very Good" rather than the HOF. 

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Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 4:15 PM, Don Johnson said:

Someone rationalize Jim Kelly being a 1st ballot guy but Matthew Stafford not.

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Because:

1. Stuff
2. Things
3. 

  On 2/14/2022 at 4:39 PM, futureman said:

nope. 

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Seriously, 2 of those 3 things were well beyond any of his control, 1 being a completely contrived “controversy,” and the other that sort of involved him was also a contrived controversy.

Tuck rule? Shit that was a rule of the game that even I knew the very second the play happened. 

Posted

Kelly’s health problems may have helped him get in as early as possible. The other argument would be consistent team success. 4 consecutive conference championships plus good years around that (having guys like reed and Thomas on offense and smith and Talley on defense tends to help with the team w/l metrics).  

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 1:01 PM, Sawbonz said:

Moon was better than good for any era. And he had to spend his first 5 years in the CFL because of his skin color

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Um, no. He was mediocre for this era. Threw too many picks. Never had more than 33 TDs. Never had a rating above 96.8. Had only two seasons over 90. Career rating of 80.9. Those are very average numbers. Slightly worse than Aikman’s. Markedly worse than Kelly’s. None are deserving of being first ballot guys. 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:19 PM, Porterhouse said:

Um, no. He was mediocre for this era. Threw too many picks. Never had more than 33 TDs. Never had a rating above 96.8. Had only two seasons over 90. Career rating of 80.9. Those are very average numbers. Slightly worse than Aikman’s. Markedly worse than Kelly’s. None are deserving of being first ballot guys. 

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Seems to me that the disconnect is that you are applying the porterhouse criteria to these guys rather than the actual voter criteria.  

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 2:58 PM, Longboard Horn said:

In Highland Park they do 

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Everywhere they do. I’ve never seen such derision around a Texas high school, and for that matter, his college alma mater. It’s unique to this surly brand of asshole. 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:00 PM, hpslugga said:

Because:

1. Stuff
2. Things
3. 

Seriously, 2 of those 3 things were well beyond any of his control, 1 being a completely contrived “controversy,” and the other that sort of involved him was also a contrived controversy.

Tuck rule? Shit that was a rule of the game that even I knew the very second the play happened. 

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FTR,  I wasn’t being serious.  They should do away with the 5yr waiting period for him. 

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Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:22 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Seems to me that the disconnect is that you are applying the porterhouse criteria to these guys rather than the actual voter criteria.  

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Well yeah; I’m not a voter. I’m applying common sense. All of those guys had weaker resumes, regardless of criteria (which has evolved over time). All are first ballot guys. The only guy discussed that may not be a first ballot guy is Rivers, and Stafford depending on how he finishes his career. Ben and Eli are very likely 1st ballot guys. Stafford should end up with far superior stats to all of them with the possible exception of 1 SB to Ben/Eli’s 2. Rivers already is mostly superior statistically. 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 11:49 AM, Underdog said:

Tuck Rule.  Spygate.  Deflategate.  There’ll be discussion believe that.  
 

Also, Stafford 1-0 over Brady in PO, on the road, therefore, Stafford >>> Brady. 

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Lulz. Cute, you actually believe this. 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 4:50 PM, The Dog said:

Stafford is one of those who will be hotly debated. Heck, he wasn't even the best QB on the field last night. He had much more time to throw than Burrow and still was airmailing throws all over the place before that last drive. 

His passing yards numbers are the arguments in his favor - fastest player to 20, 30, 40, and 45,000 yards.  Likely the fastest to 50,000 yards after next year. 

Arguments against - zero all pro teams and only one pro bowl. The only way he gets in is if he's graded on a curve for being a part of some terrible Lions teams.

He also is hampered by the fact that he played during a time where there are a LOT of QBs more deserving (and were better). 

Unfortunately I think he belongs in the "Hall of Very Good" rather than the HOF. 

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Fantasy land. 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:24 PM, Porterhouse said:

Everywhere they do. I’ve never seen such derision around a Texas high school, and for that matter, his college alma mater. It’s unique to this surly brand of asshole. 

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It's tough going to Highland Park. So much working against you in life with all the derision graduates face... 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:36 PM, irishtexan said:

It's tough going to Highland Park. So much working against you in life with all the derision graduates face... 

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I wouldn’t know exactly but have an idea. Went to Westlake with a few other pro athletes including Brees. We got the same shit that my kids’ teams get now (we are in HP). 

I’m not bitching about the derision.  It’s not surprising, but the human inferiority complex never ceases to amuse me. 

Posted (edited)
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:45 PM, Errestaurants said:

Fuck OPs Stafford high school fanboy story. I want hear stories about Highland Park MILFS

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Is it really a fanboy story? “We were up 100 and Stafford came in and never threw a pass” isn’t quite bragging about *Stafford*

Edited by Pig Bellmont
Posted

I'm happy for Stafford getting his Superbowl win. He's a good Texas kid. But lets not get carried away in the moment. He's gonna have to have a serious continuing run of major success in the next year or two to be "first balloty" or even "definitely in someday." 

 

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Posted

i appreciate Stafford's collection of massive stats, but good lord, his HOF candidacy can't be based solely on racking up meaningless yards in a pass happy era.  his Lions teams sucked and were behind a lot, so he was throwing a ton.  lots of yards.  big whoop.

at no time did anybody ever think, man, Matthew Stafford is a top 5 QB of this generation.  the best way to look at him getting into the HOF is by looking at WRs who racked up massive yards in pass happy offenses but were always a tier below the best.  it took them a while.  guys like James Lofton, Cris Carter, and Andre Reed.  took each of them over 10+ years to get in.

Stafford will probably get in, but it's not a slam dunk if this is his only ring.  and unless he runs off a couple more, zero chance he's a first ballot guy.

 

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Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 6:06 PM, Jive Turkey said:

i appreciate Stafford's collection of massive stats, but good lord, his HOF candidacy can't be based solely on racking up meaningless yards in a pass happy era.  his Lions teams sucked and were behind a lot, so he was throwing a ton.  lots of yards.  big whoop.

at no time did anybody ever think, man, Matthew Stafford is a top 5 QB of this generation.  the best way to look at him getting into the HOF is by looking at WRs who racked up massive yards in pass happy offenses but were always a tier below the best.  it took them a while.  guys like James Lofton, Cris Carter, and Andre Reed.  took each of them over 10+ years to get in.

Stafford will probably get in, but it's not a slam dunk if this is his only ring.  and unless he runs off a couple more, zero chance he's a first ballot guy.

 

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Stafford also had one of best WRs of this generation and arguably the greatest physically gifted at that position in Megatron 

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 6:13 PM, Errestaurants said:

Stafford also had one of best WRs of this generation and arguably the greatest physically gifted at that position in Megatron 

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So Stafford had really great guy over the course of his entire career until he gets to LA where he has multiple players that are good at various positions and he performs better as a team?

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:45 PM, Errestaurants said:

Fuck OPs Stafford high school fanboy story. I want hear stories about Highland Park MILFS

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  On 2/14/2022 at 3:40 AM, someguy said:

wait, do people actually think Stafford is a hall of famer?

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  On 2/14/2022 at 5:47 PM, BurntOrange&White said:

Yessir....I would ask how the talent at the local HEB is in that department but Dallas :(

 

Circle C HEB is goated.

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I need to repost my two from Beeper’s contributions to Getting Laid ‘21. Stand by. 

Posted (edited)
  On 2/14/2022 at 5:51 PM, DougO said:

I'm happy for Stafford getting his Superbowl win. He's a good Texas kid. But lets not get carried away in the moment. He's gonna have to have a serious continuing run of major success in the next year or two to be "first balloty" or even "definitely in someday." 

 

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Has nothing to do with “the moment.” I’ve been saying that his ticket to Canton is a ring away from being punched for a few years now. He punched it. It’s really that simple.

Edited by hpslugga
Posted

Thanks for the story, Slugga. I'm so disconnected from the NFL, that I  didn't know anything about the guy. I watched the game towards the end of each half. Good stuff. 

HOF arguments, on the other hand, are about the most boring sports conversation I can imagine. 

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Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 4:50 PM, The Dog said:
Heck, he wasn't even the best QB on the field last night. He had much more time to throw than Burrow and still was airmailing throws all over the place before that last drive.



The first sentence is flat wrong. Then Cincy started with good pressure. Rams pass rush in the first half was mediocre.

Burrow takes some sacks he shouldn’t. But the rush was largely effectively but really only in the 2nd half. Burrows first 3 completions to Chase were not good throws. The throw to Tee for the TD was not a good throw. The first 3rd down throw to Chase, even if the LB wasn’t there, was a poor throw. And Higgins was WIDE open.

Stafford had an inexperienced TE who then went out. Odell went out. The Rams had an ineffective run game that they kept pushing and pushing. Pass blocking was not great. Staffords first pick? 3rd and long, chased out of the pocket. Pick, who cares. It was worth a shot. 2nd pick of the WRs hand. A backup, hardly used WR at that.

Stafford was better and not really close.
Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 11:49 AM, Underdog said:

Tuck Rule.  Spygate.  Deflategate.  There’ll be discussion believe that.  
 

Also, Stafford 1-0 over Brady in PO, on the road, therefore, Stafford >>> Brady. 

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There won’t be. Has any other QB led his team to 10 SB appearances? 7 Titles? He’s the unquestioned GOAT.

Posted
  On 2/14/2022 at 6:44 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Boselli was on an all decade team and a 3x all pro with 5 pro bowls in his 7 years.  He was considered the best LT of his time.

Vince Young has more pro bowls than Stafford.

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Okay. So is Stafford a first ballot guy or merely a guy who gets in?

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