I want to tell you all the story about The Freshman

[Codaxx 5843]

15 hours ago, naija said:

You are giving Stafford 2 bonus points because of his longevity and position. Sure, voters might do the same, but they are as likely to see past those things and recalibrate.

Stafford has 1 Pro Bowl. Eli has 4. Stafford has 1 SB (left his original team to do it), Eli has 2 Super Bowls and was the MVP in both of those, as the underdog in both and in one of those, beat an undefeated team. Stafford filled up the stat sheet quicker, but I don't think in the metrics that count most for HOF honors, that he is on the same level as Eli.

That is because people equate wins with the QB position. Stafford has always been over looked, because he played on a shit team. The is 4th ALL-Time in passing yards/game (Mahommes, Brees, Luck, Stafford, Peyton). I take him over Eli, Ben, Favre and even Elway (Elway has to be the most over-rated QB of all-time). 

[Errestaurants 2570]

22 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Eh was megatron really good or was he a product of a pass happy era and a team that threw the ball a lot because they were always losing?

 

No doubt they had to pass from always being down but he was a man among boys. Stafford would just throw the ball in his general direction and megatron would just go get it. 

[Guest]

Just wanted whoever negged the OP, that you suck at life.  We can find news articles and different things about Stafford all through the media and online or whatever. Then somebody within this community offers a bit of insight or how that person touched their life, regardless of how trivial it might be; and somehow it’s not favorable to you. Whatever…

However anecdotal it might be, those little glimpses into real life interaction are cool, IMHO.  

[Sawbonz 27588]

2 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

Um, no. He was mediocre for this era. Threw too many picks. Never had more than 33 TDs. Never had a rating above 96.8. Had only two seasons over 90. Career rating of 80.9. Those are very average numbers. Slightly worse than Aikman’s. Markedly worse than Kelly’s. None are deserving of being first ballot guys. 

so you think those would be his numbers in an era where there is no grounding outside the pocket, rub routes are routinely not called, receivers are protected over the middle, and QBs don’t have to worry about getting hit once the ball leaves their hand, can’t be driven into the ground, and can only be hit below the shoulders and above the knees? Moon  would have played til he was 50 under modern rules

[Teamdirtyleg 1060]

 

Thought we were taking about a different Freshman

[hpslugga 4062]

21 minutes ago, slorch said:

Just wanted whoever negged the OP, that you suck at life.  We can find news articles and different things about Stafford all through the media and online or whatever. Then somebody within this community offers a bit of insight or how that person touched their life, regardless of how trivial it might be; and somehow it’s not favorable to you. Whatever…

However anecdotal it might be, those little glimpses into real life interaction are cool, IMHO.  

Hey can’t say that I blame him. When you say that someone is “very likely bound for Canton,” that’s serious business.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

There is probably a way to adjust pass rating compared to league average of the time to compare QBs by era.

Roger Staubach was extremely efficient compared to his peers.  But if you looked at his career 83 pass rating he would look below average.

Has Stafford ever been considered a top QB compared to his peers?  I do not think he has.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9351]

If you're in the HOF you're one of the best to ever play the game. As Peter King (who's been a voter for decades) points out, your bust and media display in Canton doesn't include how many years ot took you to be enshrined.

With regards to Stafford, the SB win probably got him into the Hall. But he's a very good player to me, not one of the greats. Has any team ever feared Stafford? Did you get a sinking feeling in your gut if your team went ahead with 2 minutes left & knowing you had to stop Stafford from scoring to win?

[Codaxx 5843]

1 minute ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

If you're in the HOF you're one of the best to ever play the game. As Peter King (who's been a voter for decades) points out, your bust and media display in Canton doesn't include how many years ot took you to be enshrined.

With regards to Stafford, the SB win probably got him into the Hall. But he's a very good player to me, not one of the greats. Has any team ever feared Stafford? Did you get a sinking feeling in your gut if your team went ahead with 2 minutes left & knowing you had to stop Stafford from scoring to win?

Stafford is 5th all-time in 4Q comebacks in his Career and just put up a pretty good statement in these playoffs that should make you rethink that question

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

 

Manning is #1 with 43 in 266 games

Brady #2 42 in 318 games

Big Ben #3 41 in 249 games

Brees #4 36 in 287 games

Stafford #5 with 34 in 182 games

Jonny Unites #6 with 34 in 211 games.. 

Opportunity rate isnt given, but based on the games played to comebacks, Stafford is pretty damn good late in games. 

 

 

[hpslugga 4062]

2 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

If you're in the HOF you're one of the best to ever play the game. As Peter King (who's been a voter for decades) points out, your bust and media display in Canton doesn't include how many years ot took you to be enshrined.

With regards to Stafford, the SB win probably got him into the Hall. But he's a very good player to me, not one of the greats. Has any team ever feared Stafford? Did you get a sinking feeling in your gut if your team went ahead with 2 minutes left & knowing you had to stop Stafford from scoring to win?

I mean I’m not gonna grant that premise, but let’s say that I did:

Did you get a sinking feeling in your gut if your team went ahead with 2 minutes left and knowing you had to stop:

Sonny Jurgensen
Len Dawson
Bob Griese
Joe Namath
Ken Stabler

from scoring to win?

[Underdog 28773]

Stabler?  Absolutely.  

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

There is probably a way to adjust pass rating compared to league average of the time to compare QBs by era.

Roger Staubach was extremely efficient compared to his peers.  But if you looked at his career 83 pass rating he would look below average.

Has Stafford ever been considered a top QB compared to his peers?  I do not think he has.

Top 10 since he entered the league and in a year he wasn’t it was an aberration. He likely would’ve been Top 5 had he played in another market or very close to it. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Stabler?  Absolutely.  

This is insanity. 

[Underdog 28773]

Which part is insane or did I misread hp’s Post? 

[hpslugga 4062]

10 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

This is insanity. 

I mean he’d make a good case if it were based on a hypothetical reality; the hypothetical being that it was perpetually 1976 

[Had Enough 2088]

Stabler?  Absolutely.  

There was such fear with him and his teammates that they instituted a rule.

[Sawbonz 27588]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

Hey can’t say that I blame him. When you say that someone is “very likely bound for Canton,” that’s serious business.

What kind of person doesn’t like Trade Days?

[Duane Moore 5249]

8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I've never understood how some see a Super Bowl ring as the tipping point between a HOF career and one that isn't.  Dilfer is a great example.  I honestly didn't think Eli merited HOF consideration after his first SB victory, but #2 changed it for me.

It's a different sport, and probably a poor analogy, but the most known example of a great player making the HOF out of a shit franchise is Ernie Banks.  He was a better player in his sport than Stafford, though.  Still, first ballot.  Nobody held the Cubs against him.

I don't really see any reason for Stafford to be left out of the Hall at this point.

Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus both got in off terrible Bears teams 

1 hour ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

 

Thought we were taking about a different Freshman

Yeah, I was hoping this was going to be an oral history of the Marlon Brando/Matthew Broderick movie. 

[Chooky 13319]

6 minutes ago, Duane Moore said:

Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus both got in off terrible Bears teams 

Yeah, I was hoping this was going to be an oral history of the Marlon Brando/Matthew Broderick movie. 

Clark: It's a crime! 

Sabatini: Now you're speaking in generalities. 

Clark: It's a scam. 

Sabatini: Such an ugly word, this "scam."

[lilMAC25 3817]

2 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

If you're in the HOF you're one of the best to ever play the game. As Peter King (who's been a voter for decades) points out, your bust and media display in Canton doesn't include how many years ot took you to be enshrined.

With regards to Stafford, the SB win probably got him into the Hall. But he's a very good player to me, not one of the greats. Has any team ever feared Stafford? Did you get a sinking feeling in your gut if your team went ahead with 2 minutes left & knowing you had to stop Stafford from scoring to win?

Dallas. 2013 or so. 😪

Edited February 14, 2022 by lilMAC25

[DougO 5256]

Stafford was 0-3 in playoffs before this season. It's cool that he has a winning playoff record now to go with his NFL title. 

I was there for his second playoff loss. That's my personal story.

 

 

 

 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9351]

Stafford is 5th all-time in 4Q comebacks in his Career and just put up a pretty good statement in these playoffs that should make you rethink that question
 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm
 
Manning is #1 with 43 in 266 games
Brady #2 42 in 318 games
Big Ben #3 41 in 249 games
Brees #4 36 in 287 games
Stafford #5 with 34 in 182 games
Jonny Unites #6 with 34 in 211 games.. 
Opportunity rate isnt given, but based on the games played to comebacks, Stafford is pretty damn good late in games. 
 
 

That's Stafford to a 'T'. Padded stats in so-so games. I'm a Vikings' fan and they went 14-9 against him while rolling out QBs like Tarvaris Jackson, Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford and Case Keenum.
He gets all the credit he deserves for coming through on the biggest state last night, but if you look at that list of the other 6 QBs Stafford is going to finish 6 out of 6 ever time in every poll. He's durable, has a strong arm and throws a pretty ball. Hall of Very Good. Would you build a franchise around him?

[naija 2869]

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, naija said:

What a fucking idiot. I thought Richard Sherman went away and my life was more enjoyable as a result. Does the world not know how fucked Stafford got on Pro Bowls whilst withering away in Detroit?  Stafford should be in the Hall before that idiot 

[hpslugga 4062]

16 minutes ago, naija said:

That’s just typical Richard Sherman insanity. Every single one of those things are popularity contests. No mention of his stats, no mention of Super Bowls, and he caps it off by unfavorably comparing him to a dude that Stafford has on both counts.

Edited February 15, 2022 by hpslugga

[Hornius Emeritus 12487]

Stafford will end this conversation by winning another Super Bowl or two.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Hornius Emeritus

[naija 2869]

2 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Stafford will end this conversation by winning another Super Bowl or two.

well, he's young enough to do it. remains to be seen what happens with the Rams

[ztejas 43537]

This thread is so Surly. I'm not going to interject even though there's a million things I could say. Keep this rolling. 

[Bullneck 19206]

6 hours ago, hpslugga said:

I mean I’m not gonna grant that premise, but let’s say that I did:

Did you get a sinking feeling in your gut if your team went ahead with 2 minutes left and knowing you had to stop:

Sonny Jurgensen
Len Dawson
Bob Griese
Joe Namath
Ken Stabler

from scoring to win?

Or Montana or Steve Young.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Stafford will end this conversation by winning another Super Bowl or two.

Doubt it.  That team isn’t constructed for the future.  

[cactusflinthead 27602]

23 hours ago, hpslugga said:

If Ben Roethlisberger played for the Lions and Stafford for Pittsburgh:

If Vince played for someone else...

I try to steer clear of hypotheticals. I can only measure what we have. But, that's a damned compelling question. We have asked the same of Dirk and Big Whistle. Time and chance happens to all of us. It's an interesting question. If he doesn't get in the HOF, he still got a ring. He'll have no reason to be ashamed. 

As a denizen of DFW I harbor a strong bias against most all things HP. I just can't with Stafford, especially after this story.

Go get some more.

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

I hate the off-season 

[Zepol87 9191]

Statford seems like a cool dude. Highland Park can lick nuts 

[fattyflattie 4638]

Damn. Strong with the HP hate. 

[futureman 22544]

1 hour ago, Zepol87 said:

Highland Park can lick nuts 

bro!!!

[Thatguy 8860]

   Stafford played in Deetwa like he did in Georgia. The super bowl was the outlier. Just my opinion. Good QB. HOF? Not so sure.

[hpslugga 4062]

8 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Highland Park can lick nuts 

Well sure, we can lick nuts. Hell, I’d be concerned if we couldn’t.

[hpslugga 4062]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:44 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

50,000 passing yards, 300 touchdown passes, and now Super Bowl champ?  Which qbs have those 3 and aren’t in the hall?

I love how Stafford’s got all these weirdo detractors on this site that have avoided answering the second question like a vampire avoids garlic.

[Guest]

Just give Calvin Johnson and Aaron Donald bigger busts for carrying Stafford.

[Pato del Muerto 52597]

18 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

I love how Stafford’s got all these weirdo detractors on this site that have avoided answering the second question like a vampire avoids garlic.

And I don’t know what he’s thinking in terms of a career but 2 more seasons like this past one and it’s 60k and 400.  

[Guest]

On that magnificent 15 play drive to close out the game, Stafford was 7 of 12 for 58 yards and 1 yard rushing.  He just took over the game...

Tell me about the game changing plays he made again...  He's Goff with a bigger arm.

[Codaxx 5843]

11 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

That's Stafford to a 'T'. Padded stats in so-so games. I'm a Vikings' fan and they went 14-9 against him while rolling out QBs like Tarvaris Jackson, Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford and Case Keenum.
He gets all the credit he deserves for coming through on the biggest state last night, but if you look at that list of the other 6 QBs Stafford is going to finish 6 out of 6 ever time in every poll. He's durable, has a strong arm and throws a pretty ball. Hall of Very Good. Would you build a franchise around him?
 

Rams just did. Some of these comments are just funny.

Surly: "Stafford isnt scary in late games"

Facts: "Umm, he is top 5 all-time in 4Q comebacks and just had 3 comebacks in these playoffs"

Surly: "well, overrated. You wouldnt build a a team around him"

Facts: "Rams just laid down a massive bet on Stafford"

Most people looked at Stafford and said "I wonder what he could do with some talent around him". Everyone knew he was one of the most talented QBs in the NFL. Now that question has been answered. One reason I wanted Stafford to win, is I hoped it would get the people to start realizing that winning isnt just the QB. Put a good QB in a shit situation and things arent going to magically work out. You dont have to put him in the HOF, but some of these comments are just funny. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Codaxx

[hpslugga 4062]

24 minutes ago, slorch said:

On that magnificent 15 play drive to close out the game, Stafford was 7 of 12 for 58 yards and 1 yard rushing.  He just took over the game...

Tell me about the game changing plays he made again...  He's Goff with a bigger arm.

[hpslugga 4062]

38 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Put a good QB in a shit situation and things arent going to magically work out. 

And the inverse is true too. Anyone remember those Rams teams of the early 1990’s? That team that had Flipper Anderson and Henry Ellard? Yeah, they didn’t win shit, largely because they had a shit QB that was put in a good situation. 

All that tells you is that it’s a team game and not everything boils down to one person. It’s the same with Stafford. He spent 12 years with a franchise that would have been improved if it was being run by Chris Rock’s rendition of Caretaker, he gets paroled and a year later is holding a Lombardi. But sure, lets talk about Detroit because…things.

[BurntOrange&White 40006]

13 hours ago, hpslugga said:

That’s just typical Richard Sherman insanity. Every single one of those things are popularity contests. No mention of his stats, no mention of Super Bowls, and he caps it off by unfavorably comparing him to a dude that Stafford has on both counts.

All pro isn't a popularity contest really. 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4781]

20 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Joe Namath and Sonny Jurgensen were under .500 for their careers.

I think Namath is there primarily for one game (and his prolific hound achievements).  Even then, looking thru my burnt orange tints, he was carried by Jim Hudson, George Sauer, and Pete Lammons.

Sonny could twirl.  Too bad the Skins _efense couldn’t help him, Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, Jerry Smith, and Larry Brown.

[hpslugga 4062]

18 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

All pro isn't a popularity contest really. 

The team is constructed by a consensus of sports writers and broadcasters. That’s literally the definition of a popularity contest. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Quarterbacks with more pro bowls from 2009 to present than Matt Stafford (who entered league in 2009 and has one pro bowl):

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Russell Wilson'

Ben Roethlisberger

Patrick Mahomes

Kyler Murray

Dak Prescott

Kirk Cousins

Lamar Jackson

Deshaun Watson

Josh Allen

Jared Goff

Phillip Rivers

Andrew Luck

Derek Carr

Alex Smith

Matt Ryan

Andy Dalton

Cam Newton

Eli Manning

Tony Romo

Matt Schaub

[Guest]

Pro bowl is like getting invited to the prom…

“mr. quarterback number seven, you were our first choice after the other six guys declined.”

Edited February 15, 2022 by slorch

[Codaxx 5843]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Quarterbacks with more pro bowls from 2009 to present than Matt Stafford (who entered league in 2009 and has one pro bowl):

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Russell Wilson'

Ben Roethlisberger

Patrick Mahomes

Kyler Murray

Dak Prescott

Kirk Cousins

Lamar Jackson

Deshaun Watson

Josh Allen

Jared Goff

Phillip Rivers

Andrew Luck

Derek Carr

Alex Smith

Matt Ryan

Andy Dalton

Cam Newton

Eli Manning

Tony Romo

Matt Schaub

Just look at the names. IF you are trying to say Stafford is over-rated based on a single stat compared Schuab, Newton, Smith, and Dalton having more Pro Bowls, perhaps your stat is worthless