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BLM Activist tries to assassinate another Democrat Mayoral Candidate

maninblack

By maninblack
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17447

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

There’s a woman stumbling over them in the video posted. 

Not when you have political orgs there to scratch that check for you. Dudes paying 0 dollars, which is pretty affordable.   
 

I don’t know is a pretty shit answer, tbh. If he shot up dahobbs family bbq, and was out a day later, you’d feel fine?  Maybe, but I highly fucking doubt it. 

So, what reforms to the bail system would you propose? How would you, Mr. snarky pants, balance innocent until proven guilty with the protection of the public? 

It seems to me that a bail system based on something other than money would be better. For instance, I'd probably balance the nature of crime and the strength of the evidence against the accused. Although that latter part makes me a bit uncomfortable.

And I'll point out in this instance it also seems that the alleged perpetrator could be held in mental health facility under an involuntary commitment, at least in Texas. 

I await your serious answer that isn't entirely a snarky political attack. I don't have high expectations. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

For instance, I'd probably balance the nature of crime and the strength of the evidence against the accused. Although that latter part makes me a bit uncomfortable.

And I'll point out in this instance it also seems that the alleged perpetrator could be held in mental health facility under an involuntary commitment, at least in Texas. 

That’s fine.  I don’t need a guy who’s got a blunt spending a month in jail before trial. Being caught with (literally) the smoking gun, to the point the DA is immediately slapping attempted murder on you, doesn’t hurt my feelings if he’s in jail for a few weeks before trial. Violent crime for one. Sexual assault, assault on minors, battery, etc need to be discussed on another level imo.   I’m also not sure how I feel about 3pty groups posting bail.  
 

I think this mental thing is a plea to avoid consequence. If it’s true, whoever’s gun that is needs to be charged to the highest available charge. 
 

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I await your serious answer that isn't entirely a snarky political attack. I don't have high expectations. 

Mature. Considering I haven’t mentioned any politics in this entire conversation, you can go fuck yourself. Shit, that’s snarky?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That’s fine.  I don’t need a guy who’s got a blunt spending a month in jail before trial. Being caught with (literally) the smoking gun, to the point the DA is immediately slapping attempted murder on you, doesn’t hurt my feelings if he’s in jail for a few weeks before trial. Violent crime for one. Sexual assault, assault on minors, battery, etc need to be discussed on another level imo.   I’m also not sure how I feel about 3pty groups posting bail.  
 

I think this mental thing is a plea to avoid consequence. If it’s true, whoever’s gun that is needs to be charged to the highest available charge. 
 

Mature. Considering I haven’t mentioned any politics in this entire conversation, you can go fuck yourself. Shit, that’s snarky?

A month?  A few weeks?

Most of these piddly ass things take at least six months to get to trial, which is often short circuited by a plea, induced in part by the prospect of a "time served" sentence.

And an attempted murder is probably going to take at least the better part of a year to get to trial.

And it's a galactic pain in the ass to represent someone who is detained, compared to someone who is not.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17447

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That’s fine.  I don’t need a guy who’s got a blunt spending a month in jail before trial. Being caught with (literally) the smoking gun, to the point the DA is immediately slapping attempted murder on you, doesn’t hurt my feelings if he’s in jail for a few weeks before trial. Violent crime for one. Sexual assault, assault on minors, battery, etc need to be discussed on another level imo.   I’m also not sure how I feel about 3pty groups posting bail.  
 

I think this mental thing is a plea to avoid consequence. If it’s true, whoever’s gun that is needs to be charged to the highest available charge. 
 

Mature. Considering I haven’t mentioned any politics in this entire conversation, you can go fuck yourself. Shit, that’s snarky?

You say jail for a few weeks before trial, but I think in felony cases the time between arrest and trial is much longer. Here is an old report on the average being 6 months, which is in line with what I've heard. 

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/ascii/scscf96.txt#:~:text=* Average elapsed time from date,trials took about 6 months.

6 months is a long time to be held, especially if you're actually innocent. And I certainly don't think the DA's fervor on your prosecution should be a determining factor on bail. I think we've all seem enough of rush to judgments by DA's trying to look tough on crime. 

You'll have to excuse my comment on your snarkiness. I based it on the rest of your posts in the thread. Glad you're ready to engage in substance. 

 

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

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Mature. Considering I haven’t mentioned any politics in this entire conversation, you can go fuck yourself. Shit, that’s snarky?

You are talking about a month or “weeks” before trial. My jurisdiction typically runs a timetable for felonies for defendants IN JAIL of aboit 12-18 months, assuming everything goes smoothly.
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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Digging around on time to trial, I found some interesting data on felony criminal charges in Texas. https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1451853/fy-20-annual-statistical-report_final_mar10_2021.pdf

Violent crimes constitute fewer than 25% of cases filed in Texas courts.

Property crimes constitute fewer than 20% of cases filed in Texas courts.

Unsurprisingly, drug crimes constitute 30% of cases filed in Texas courts.

So, the crimes that potentially adversely affect individual Texans are not as numerous as you might think.  Or at least the ones that get apprehended and prosecuted.

Food for thought next time some jackass panders about tough on crime.

 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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58 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

A month?  A few weeks?

I mentioned that specifically because I thought I heard a date on the tweet above. I listened to it again and didn’t hear it, but lots of background noise and whatnot. For whatever reason I thought I heard her say Feb 23. 
 

52 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

6 months is a long time to be held, especially if you're actually innocent.

I would agree. It’s also a long time for someone who’s in the frame of mind to actually shoot other people to be on the street.  I’m going to assume that you’ve been mad as fuck before. Probably just boiling and seeing red for some reason. But you’ve never walked down to an office and fired a gun at 5 people.  Let’s say he channels his inner Houston and kills a few people while he’s out.  Their lives > a small chance of a few months of false imprisonment?  Guess it depends on who the people killed are? 

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TwiceHorn

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5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I mentioned that specifically because I thought I heard a date on the tweet above. I listened to it again and didn’t hear it, but lots of background noise and whatnot. For whatever reason I thought I heard her say Feb 23. 
 

I would agree. It’s also a long time for someone who’s in the frame of mind to actually shoot other people to be on the street.  I’m going to assume that you’ve been mad as fuck before. Probably just boiling and seeing red for some reason. But you’ve never walked down to an office and fired a gun at 5 people.  Let’s say he channels his inner Houston and kills a few people while he’s out.  Their lives > a small chance of a few months of false imprisonment?  Guess it depends on who the people killed are? 

Just for the record, courts schedule outlandishly optimistic first trial dates on the regular.  And they regularly get pushed back as many as half a dozen times amounting to months and years.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17447

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1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I would agree. It’s also a long time for someone who’s in the frame of mind to actually shoot other people to be on the street.  I’m going to assume that you’ve been mad as fuck before. Probably just boiling and seeing red for some reason. But you’ve never walked down to an office and fired a gun at 5 people.  Let’s say he channels his inner Houston and kills a few people while he’s out.  Their lives > a small chance of a few months of false imprisonment?  Guess it depends on who the people killed are? 

Why is the chance of false imprisonment small? People are found not guilty all the time. And even convictions are often overturned or otherwise proven incorrect. I view innocent until proven guilty as the fundamental tenet of our criminal legal system. Everything else flows from that. You appear not to think much of throwing that away, and I really don't understand why. 

I also don't understand your comment about it depending on who was killed. I don't think my views on the bail system have oscillated depending on the political views of the perpetrator or the victims. As to this case, it seems to be primarily a mental health issue. And it seems like mental health detention is warranted as he appears to be a threat to himself or others. 

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Foosters

Foosters 17733

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I've represented dozens, if not hundreds,  of in-custody defendants charged with felonies. For potential life cases, or even ones where the max is over 25+, many will be in custody for 1-2 years before resolution. There are still people in jail waiting for trials/pleas who were arrested before Covid was a thing.

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Orale

Orale 1087

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Just for the record, courts schedule outlandishly optimistic first trial dates on the regular.  And they regularly get pushed back as many as half a dozen times amounting to months and years.

Back in my ADA days, we had 10 or more cases set for trial every day. Of course they were inevitably reset until the eventual plea in 99% of them. The system would come to a halt if we had more than a few trials in a court every year. 

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gmr548

gmr548 16516

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I see some issues with it. Where do you draw the line?  Should someone be able to mow down a school yard, be apprehended later but not actually caught redhanded, released on 100k bond?  Let’s say he only grazed one of the kids, but didn’t hit anyone. Caught 2 blocks away with matching caliber gun and matching rounds. Is 100k sufficient?  Do you think an org that bailed him out with no cost to him would face any heat? 

I’m sure I can go back in your post history and find outrage at Kyle Rittenhouse’s crowdsourced $1mm+ bail?
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Nivek

Nivek 16860

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I also recall that thread breaking out into a engaging discussion of the inequities of the bail system. Time is a flat circle. 

Well one wanted to shoot and kill people (and did) by provoking an incident and was given a speedy trial.  The other appears to have mental problems and did not kill someone.  #BoThSidEs!   

 

 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29257

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42 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

How about we don't allow anybody but the alleged perp to pay for their bail? No outside sources for bail, including crowd sourced funds. 

 

Discuss.

So just an explicit get out of pretrial detention for rich people program? Cool. No problems with that at all, definitely checks out.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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11 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Why is the chance of false imprisonment small? People are found not guilty all the time. And even convictions are often overturned or otherwise proven incorrect. I view innocent until proven guilty as the fundamental tenet of our criminal legal system. Everything else flows from that. You appear not to think much of throwing that away, and I really don't understand why. 

I also don't understand your comment about it depending on who was killed. I don't think my views on the bail system have oscillated depending on the political views of the perpetrator or the victims. As to this case, it seems to be primarily a mental health issue. And it seems like mental health detention is warranted as he appears to be a threat to himself or others. 

Yeah, all of this involves a fairly high degree of speculation. 

Fatty speculates that anyone accused of a violent crime is likely to commit another while on bail, based on what seem to be a few outliers being used for political gain by the usual suspects.

You, on the other hand, speculate what if they're innocent/not guilty and falsely imprisoned.

I think the fundamental notion of our criminal justice system requires that we indulge your speculation and not his.

And all of this tends to ignore that a court can and should impose conditions on bail adapted to what appear to be the facts:  limited movement/GPS monitoring, mental health treatment or confinement, etc. Bail shouldn't be reduced to yes/no and if yes how much.

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10977

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37 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

So just an explicit get out of pretrial detention for rich people program? Cool. No problems with that at all, definitely checks out.

 

30 minutes ago, kevwun said:

We should bring back debtor's prison too while we're at it.

 

I didn't say I was for it. I brought it up because it seemed that Fattie was concerned about "political groups" bailing people out.

 

 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33843

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12 hours ago, Foosters said:

I've represented dozens, if not hundreds,  of in-custody defendants charged with felonies. For potential life cases, or even ones where the max is over 25+, many will be in custody for 1-2 years before resolution. There are still people in jail waiting for trials/pleas who were arrested before Covid was a thing.

that gives me a case of the sads

USA! USA!

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Foosters

Foosters 17733

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7 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Would a psychiatric evaluation be too much to ask for those accused of violent crimes? It could help inform the bail amount and conditions.

They do have pre-trial risk assessments in some jurisdictions, but they do not ordinarily include a psychiatric evaluation.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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Posted
2 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Would a psychiatric evaluation be too much to ask for those accused of violent crimes? It could help inform the bail amount and conditions.

We don't have time for that.  Can't risk someone being held for the time it takes to do the evaluation, in the case they are innocent. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17447

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Sorry. I get snarky when minorities have targeted attacks perpetrated against them, only to be "it's not like he actually shot them" excused away days later.   

Come on man. Just try, just a little. 

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