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Bad Bishop Bungles Baptisms

'stache

By 'stache
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'stache

'stache 21880

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Ok, he wasn't a Bishop, but I needed it for alliteration. This might be the dumbest of things I've read recently about the church. Just really, really stupid. If we're going with divinity, couldn't the Pope just say "they're all fine, move on already." 

 

Arizona Catholic priest resigns over wrongly-used word during baptism; what you should know about the mix-up

PHOENIX - In a unique situation for people of the Roman Catholic faith, a priest is resigning after the church's Phoenix Diocese determined the words he was using during baptisms are wrong, meaning those baptisms are now rendered invalid.

Here's what you should know about the mix-up.

So, what happened?

In a statement released by officials with the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix, it was announced that all baptisms performed by a priest named Andres Arango until June 17, 2021 are presumed to be invalid due to the words that were used.

At the center of the mix-up are the words "we" and "I." Diocesan officials say Arango should have used the following words during baptism:

I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Instead, diocesan officials say Arango used the following words:

We baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Diocesan officials said baptisms performed by Arango after June 17, 2021 are presumed to be valid.

In a letter to faithfuls, Phoenix Catholic Bishop Thomas Olmsted said the determination that baptisms performed by Arango are invalid was made "after careful study by diocesan officials and through consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome."

What's the big deal?

Diocesan officials say the word change made a big difference for them.

"It is not the community that baptizes a person and incorporates them into the Church of Christ; rather, it is Christ, and Christ alone, who presides at all sacraments; therefore, it is Christ who baptizes," diocesan officials said, on their website. "The Baptismal Formula (the words used in the Rite) has always been guarded for this reason: so it is clear that we receive our baptism through Jesus and not the community."

"In the case of baptism, it brings the child into the community of Catholicism. The argument is because the wrong words were said, that thing didn’t happen. The ritual didn’t do the work it was meant to do," said Catherine O'Donnell, a history professor with Arizona State University.

In simpler terms, diocesan officials say sacraments are rendered invalid if words, actions, or materials required were changed.

"For example, if a priest uses milk instead of wine during the Consecration of the Eucharist, the sacrament is not valid. The milk would not become the Blood of Jesus Christ," read a portion of the diocese's website.

Where did Arango work?

Diocesan officials say Arango worked at various Phoenix area parishes, starting in September 2005. Prior to that, Arango worked at worked in San Diego, Calif., and Salvador, a city located in Brazil's Bahia state.

According to records from the diocese, from September 2005 to February 2013, Arango worked at the pastor for the St. Jerome parish in Phoenix. He also served as the parochial vicar at Gilbert's St. Anne parish from March 2013 to June 2015, and served as parochial administrator at Phoenix's St. Gregory parish from July 2015 to March 2017.

From April 2017, records from the diocese show he worked as pastor for the same parish in Phoenix.

Why did Arango do this?

In his letter, Bishop Olmsted said he does not believe that Arango had "any intentions to harm the faithful or deprive them of the grace of baptism and the sacraments."

In a separate letter to people in his now-former parish, Arango said he is saddened to learn that he performed invalid baptisms by using an "incorrect formula."

"I deeply regret my error and how this has affected numerous people in your parish and elsewhere," Arango wrote.

What's going to happen with Arango?

Arango, according to diocesan officials, stepped down as pastor of the St. Gregory Parish on Feb. 1, 2022.

"He has not disqualified himself from his vocation and ministry, but, with the help of the Holy Spirit and in communion with diocesan leadership, he will dedicate his energy and full-time ministry to helping and healing those who were invalidly baptized. He remains a priest in good standing," diocesan officials said, on their website.

What does this mix-up mean for those baptized by Arango?

Diocesan officials said those who received an invalid baptism may have to repeat confirmation and/or the Eucharist, which, along with baptisms, are known as the three 'sacraments of initiation.'

In addition, diocesan officials say those who have not been validly baptized cannot take communion, as that is reserved for the baptized.

Diocesan officials also say marriages could be affected.

Wait. Marriage?

While diocesan officials say marriages could be affected, they also say there is no single clear answer.

"There are a number of variables when it comes to valid marriages, and the Tribunal is here to help," read the diocese's website.

"There is a tremendous amount of institutional cleanup that would need to happen for the parishioners who want to understand themselves as fully in communion with the church," said O'Donnell.

I was baptized by Arango. What should I do?

Diocesan officials said they are working with Arango, as well as the parishes he was previously assigned to, in order to notify anyone who may have been baptized in an invalid manner.

"Pastors are aware of the situation, and you should be able to schedule a baptism as needed," read the diocese's website.

Those who are no longer within the borders of the Diocese of Phoenix will be able to obtain a letter, which they can bring to their pastor to help explain the situation when scheduling a baptism or other sacraments that are needed.

Diocesan officials also say people can also check baptismal certificates, along with photos or videos of the baptism event, to see if they or their children were baptized by Arango.

On their website, diocesan officials included a form in which people affected by the invalid baptisms can fill out.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-catholic-priest-resigns-over-wrongly-used-word-during-baptism-what-you-should-know-about-the-mix-up

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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If I could, I’d make a meme with those pawn store guys wearing bishop hats   

sexual abuse victims, “we’d like a non-cosmetic, complete overhaul of the entire clergy worldwide who committed even the slightest sexual assault.  With more damages paid, more counseling, and more measures in place to ensure this never happens again, ever.”

Pawn Bishops, “best we can do is a prayer card to the patron Saint of Denotations for $10.”  

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'stache

'stache 21880

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46 minutes ago, South Austin said:

It's a shame that all of those wrongly-baptiszed folks are going to Hell.

Apparently Pope Benedict did away with the concept of limbo for unbaptized babies, because it sounded kind of harsh for a benevolent god, so he just kind of say no after a few centuries of these beliefs. But if you jerk off or hook up with someone of your own gender, straight to hell, no benevolence for you, god gets quite irate!

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Bevo

Bevo 13601

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3 hours ago, 'stache said:

"It is not the community that baptizes a person and incorporates them into the Church of Christ; rather, it is Christ, and Christ alone, who presides at all sacraments; therefore, it is Christ who baptizes," diocesan officials said, on their website. "The Baptismal Formula (the words used in the Rite) has always been guarded for this reason: so it is clear that we receive our baptism through Jesus and not the community."

So stupid. The priest just needs to state that we refers to the father, son and Holy Ghost.

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Mole

Mole 4333

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Plural vs. singular seems a bit looser in the Bible.

Gen 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And of here’s Jesus on how to baptize:

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

If you’re baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit per the words of Jesus, and said three-in-one crew refer to themselves as a plural on page one of the entire book, “we” seems biblically appropriate even for the most pedantic.

 

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18031

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9 minutes ago, Mole said:

Plural vs. singular seems a bit looser in the Bible.

Gen 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And of here’s Jesus on how to baptize:

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

If you’re baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit per the words of Jesus, and said three-in-one crew refer to themselves as a plural on page one of the entire book, “we” seems biblically appropriate even for the most pedantic.

 

You forgot this one from Grifter 420:69  "Thou shalt maximize profits and double dip honorariums when the opportunity arises."

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52608

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Why would “I” be used when referring to Jesus?  
 

shouldn’t the correct phrasing be “He baptizes you?”  
 

all baptisms are invalid, IMO. Except those performed by Jesus himself. 
 

or, if the priest somehow becomes Jesus for a moment like through a temporary transubstantiation, shouldn’t he say “I baptize you in the name of my father, myself, and  the Holy Spirit?”

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Wiler77

Wiler77 1576

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36 minutes ago, Mole said:

 

If you’re baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit per the words of Jesus, and said three-in-one crew refer to themselves as a plural on page one of the entire book, “we” seems biblically appropriate even for the most pedantic.

 

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'stache

'stache 21880

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55 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Why would “I” be used when referring to Jesus?  
 

shouldn’t the correct phrasing be “He baptizes you?”  
 

all baptisms are invalid, IMO. Except those performed by Jesus himself. 
 

or, if the priest somehow becomes Jesus for a moment like through a temporary transubstantiation, shouldn’t he say “I baptize you in the name of my father, myself, and  the Holy Spirit?”

They become one and the same, hence, problems.

 

Pope Quietly Moves God To Different Universe After Deity Caught Molesting Altar Boy

VATICAN CITY—Acting swiftly and quietly in hopes of avoiding a PR nightmare, Pope Francis reportedly transferred God, Our Lord And Heavenly Father, to a different universe Friday after He was caught molesting an altar boy. “You’re obviously a hugely valuable member of our organization, but we think given recent events it would be best for you to spend some time a few billion light years out of the spotlight,” Pope Francis reportedly told The Creator Of All Things in a private meeting, recommending that the deity use His time in the desolate reaches of a farflung dimension to say His devotionals and contemplate the scripture. “I know it’ll be a change of pace from the hubbub of the entirety of creation that you’re used to, but it’ll be a chance for some rest and quiet until all the creatures in known existence calm down a bit. At that stage, we should be able to promote you to a high ranking position in the Vatican without a problem.” At press time, Pope Francis had reportedly been forced to relocate God again after several beings of incomprehensible aspect accused Him of inappropriate touching.

https://www.theonion.com/pope-quietly-moves-god-to-different-universe-after-deit-1848518930

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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4 hours ago, 'stache said:

Apparently Pope Benedict did away with the concept of limbo for unbaptized babies, because it sounded kind of harsh for a benevolent god, so he just kind of say no after a few centuries of these beliefs. But if you jerk off or hook up with someone of your own gender, straight to hell, no benevolence for you, god gets quite irate!

From my understanding after four years of Jesuit instruction, and less formal instruction at home, this is not true. So long as you ask for forgiveness and get last rites from a priest, all that shit is void whether you were a chronic masturbator, Liberace, or Hitler. Or Lee Atwater, who had a deathbed conversion to Catholicism, perhaps based on this fine print material. So just make sure you don't jack off, hook up with a same-sex partner, or slaughter millions of people after you've gotten your Last Rites, and you should breeze right by St. Peter like the Bee Gees strutting past the velvet rope and straight into Studio 54 circa 1978.

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Captain Ron

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9 hours ago, 'stache said:

Ok, he wasn't a Bishop, but I needed it for alliteration. This might be the dumbest of things I've read recently about the church. Just really, really stupid. If we're going with divinity, couldn't the Pope just say "they're all fine, move on already." 

 

Arizona Catholic priest resigns over wrongly-used word during baptism; what you should know about the mix-up

PHOENIX - In a unique situation for people of the Roman Catholic faith, a priest is resigning after the church's Phoenix Diocese determined the words he was using during baptisms are wrong, meaning those baptisms are now rendered invalid.

Here's what you should know about the mix-up.

So, what happened?

In a statement released by officials with the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix, it was announced that all baptisms performed by a priest named Andres Arango until June 17, 2021 are presumed to be invalid due to the words that were used.

At the center of the mix-up are the words "we" and "I." Diocesan officials say Arango should have used the following words during baptism:

I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Instead, diocesan officials say Arango used the following words:

We baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Diocesan officials said baptisms performed by Arango after June 17, 2021 are presumed to be valid.

In a letter to faithfuls, Phoenix Catholic Bishop Thomas Olmsted said the determination that baptisms performed by Arango are invalid was made "after careful study by diocesan officials and through consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome."

What's the big deal?

Diocesan officials say the word change made a big difference for them.

"It is not the community that baptizes a person and incorporates them into the Church of Christ; rather, it is Christ, and Christ alone, who presides at all sacraments; therefore, it is Christ who baptizes," diocesan officials said, on their website. "The Baptismal Formula (the words used in the Rite) has always been guarded for this reason: so it is clear that we receive our baptism through Jesus and not the community."

"In the case of baptism, it brings the child into the community of Catholicism. The argument is because the wrong words were said, that thing didn’t happen. The ritual didn’t do the work it was meant to do," said Catherine O'Donnell, a history professor with Arizona State University.

In simpler terms, diocesan officials say sacraments are rendered invalid if words, actions, or materials required were changed.

"For example, if a priest uses milk instead of wine during the Consecration of the Eucharist, the sacrament is not valid. The milk would not become the Blood of Jesus Christ," read a portion of the diocese's website.

Where did Arango work?

Diocesan officials say Arango worked at various Phoenix area parishes, starting in September 2005. Prior to that, Arango worked at worked in San Diego, Calif., and Salvador, a city located in Brazil's Bahia state.

According to records from the diocese, from September 2005 to February 2013, Arango worked at the pastor for the St. Jerome parish in Phoenix. He also served as the parochial vicar at Gilbert's St. Anne parish from March 2013 to June 2015, and served as parochial administrator at Phoenix's St. Gregory parish from July 2015 to March 2017.

From April 2017, records from the diocese show he worked as pastor for the same parish in Phoenix.

Why did Arango do this?

In his letter, Bishop Olmsted said he does not believe that Arango had "any intentions to harm the faithful or deprive them of the grace of baptism and the sacraments."

In a separate letter to people in his now-former parish, Arango said he is saddened to learn that he performed invalid baptisms by using an "incorrect formula."

"I deeply regret my error and how this has affected numerous people in your parish and elsewhere," Arango wrote.

What's going to happen with Arango?

Arango, according to diocesan officials, stepped down as pastor of the St. Gregory Parish on Feb. 1, 2022.

"He has not disqualified himself from his vocation and ministry, but, with the help of the Holy Spirit and in communion with diocesan leadership, he will dedicate his energy and full-time ministry to helping and healing those who were invalidly baptized. He remains a priest in good standing," diocesan officials said, on their website.

What does this mix-up mean for those baptized by Arango?

Diocesan officials said those who received an invalid baptism may have to repeat confirmation and/or the Eucharist, which, along with baptisms, are known as the three 'sacraments of initiation.'

In addition, diocesan officials say those who have not been validly baptized cannot take communion, as that is reserved for the baptized.

Diocesan officials also say marriages could be affected.

Wait. Marriage?

While diocesan officials say marriages could be affected, they also say there is no single clear answer.

"There are a number of variables when it comes to valid marriages, and the Tribunal is here to help," read the diocese's website.

"There is a tremendous amount of institutional cleanup that would need to happen for the parishioners who want to understand themselves as fully in communion with the church," said O'Donnell.

I was baptized by Arango. What should I do?

Diocesan officials said they are working with Arango, as well as the parishes he was previously assigned to, in order to notify anyone who may have been baptized in an invalid manner.

"Pastors are aware of the situation, and you should be able to schedule a baptism as needed," read the diocese's website.

Those who are no longer within the borders of the Diocese of Phoenix will be able to obtain a letter, which they can bring to their pastor to help explain the situation when scheduling a baptism or other sacraments that are needed.

Diocesan officials also say people can also check baptismal certificates, along with photos or videos of the baptism event, to see if they or their children were baptized by Arango.

On their website, diocesan officials included a form in which people affected by the invalid baptisms can fill out.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-catholic-priest-resigns-over-wrongly-used-word-during-baptism-what-you-should-know-about-the-mix-up

For a story about 1 word 

image.png.70cc68ad7623d9f7a67d13216690deae.png

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Genco

Genco 3041

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6 hours ago, 'stache said:

Apparently Pope Benedict did away with the concept of limbo for unbaptized babies, because it sounded kind of harsh for a benevolent god, so he just kind of say no after a few centuries of these beliefs. But if you jerk off or hook up with someone of your own gender, straight to hell, no benevolence for you, god gets quite irate!

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'stache

'stache 21880

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5 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

I wonder which Karen whore mother told on him. 

A very devout woman for sure. All those cafeteria catholics over the years not even paying any fucking attention to the asshole saying "we" like a jackass! That guy doesn't fuck (adults at least).

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5587

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19 hours ago, horn4life said:

Well as usual the Catholic Church is paying super strict attention to the slightest of details.  Strange how they accidentally didn't notice all the child molesters who were doing a lot more than changing a phrase from "I" to "We."

Think about the importance of that word, to the people who believe they were personally called by God (or Jesus, this gets complicated and confusing) to become a priest. And then the elite upper management of the cult cannot let there be the slightest crack in the code of compliance.

It is why you hide the pedo priests, because you can't allow someone picked, by God, to be on your team, to have these problems.

Either God picks pedo's to be priests, or God isn't making the call to be a priest, OR it's just guys who don't know what they want to do and say hey let's give this a try. You know like taxi drivers, store clerks, or accountants.

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