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Incredulity

By Incredulity
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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47885

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So this is basically the same shit that happened in Portland, except less voluntarily from the actual citizens of Ottawa where these truckers landed. But a complete shut down of commerce and road traffic, disruption of some businesses, and the right is universally in favor of it while they were screaming about it when it happened in Portland as a political protest that was peaceful. I'm shocked at the cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, completely unexpected. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29260

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6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So this is basically the same shit that happened in Portland, except less voluntarily from the actual citizens of Ottawa where these truckers landed. But a complete shut down of commerce and road traffic, disruption of some businesses, and the right is universally in favor of it while they were screaming about it when it happened in Portland as a political protest that was peaceful. I'm shocked at the cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, completely unexpected. 

Portland protests were just street protests at night, I don't think they really shut a substantial portion of the city down for any extended duration. This (at lease the occupation of Ottawa part of it) is more comparable to the CHAZ in Seattle, though it looks like they're occupying substantially more physical space than the CHAZ did. Of course, another difference is that the protestors in Portland and Seattle were largely local and didn't frequently threaten nearby residents. 

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The Original Greaser Bob

The Original Greaser Bob 2799

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13 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So this is basically the same shit that happened in Portland, except less voluntarily from the actual citizens of Ottawa where these truckers landed. But a complete shut down of commerce and road traffic, disruption of some businesses, and the right is universally in favor of it while they were screaming about it when it happened in Portland as a political protest that was peaceful. I'm shocked at the cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, completely unexpected. 

I'm not an expert on traffic logistics or urban planning, but as stated above, I don't think they appear to be "basically the same shit".  The Canada actions created a clear slowdown in intercountry commerce which essentially shut down some automakers processes for a few days. 

I think it's important to understand the similarities, but it's more important to understand why this may have evoked a different political response.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47885

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1 minute ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I'm not an expert on traffic logistics or urban planning, but as stated above, I don't think they appear to be "basically the same shit".  The Canada actions created a clear slowdown in intercountry commerce which essentially shut down some automakers processes for a few days. 

I think it's important to understand the similarities, but it's more important to understand why this may have evoked a different political response.

I mean, I was generalizing. But yes, both responses I have sort of prove the point. While much less serious, with much less seriousness of consequences than the protests in Canada, the situations in both Portland and Seattle were wildly vilified by Fox News and lawless failed city-states with evil communist mayors, and generally met with a complete pants shitting by one political party. The same people look at what is happening in Canada and see it as perfectly fine, and are outraged that the government might, you know, want to take action (non-violent) to start their city back up again. These are also the same people who wanted law enforcement to sweep out the homeless under the freeways on I-35 in Austin. 

It's the hypocrisy that gets me, but more important than that, the general refusal to do even a modicum of self-evaluation. 

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Caponata

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22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So this is basically the same shit that happened in Portland, except less voluntarily from the actual citizens of Ottawa where these truckers landed. But a complete shut down of commerce and road traffic, disruption of some businesses, and the right is universally in favor of it while they were screaming about it when it happened in Portland as a political protest that was peaceful. I'm shocked at the cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, completely unexpected. 

Can someone support working class protests in Portland & Canada?

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Goredho

Goredho 17349

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16 hours ago, Royalfan5 said:

Why do I give a shit what a bunch goose fuckers do in their frozen hellscape?

Conservatives I know:  “THIS TYRANNY IN CANADA WILL NOT STAND!!!”

Also conservatives I know:  “We have no business inserting ourselves in the affairs of Russia and the Ukraine.”

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29260

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5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I bet Canadian fascists are the nicest kind of fascists. 

Honestly, I bet they're the worst. I'm sure they feel the need to compensate for being Canadian the way little dogs are always the most aggressive or short bros are always trying to act like they're the toughest. 

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Immaculate Vibes

Immaculate Vibes 114

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39 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Portland protests were just street protests at night, I don't think they really shut a substantial portion of the city down for any extended duration. This (at lease the occupation of Ottawa part of it) is more comparable to the CHAZ in Seattle, though it looks like they're occupying substantially more physical space than the CHAZ did. Of course, another difference is that the protestors in Portland and Seattle were largely local and didn't frequently threaten nearby residents. 

You have a source for that claim. A lot of nonsense being thrown around. Remember the arson hoax?

There’s been almost zero violence amongst the Canadian protest. They’ve been in communication with police the whole time to make sure they aren’t causing too much physical disruption. 
 

29 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I mean, I was generalizing. But yes, both responses I have sort of prove the point. While much less serious, with much less seriousness of consequences than the protests in Canada, the situations in both Portland and Seattle were wildly vilified by Fox News and lawless failed city-states with evil communist mayors, and generally met with a complete pants shitting by one political party. The same people look at what is happening in Canada and see it as perfectly fine, and are outraged that the government might, you know, want to take action (non-violent) to start their city back up again. These are also the same people who wanted law enforcement to sweep out the homeless under the freeways on I-35 in Austin. 

It's the hypocrisy that gets me, but more important than that, the general refusal to do even a modicum of self-evaluation. 

Memory is a bit fuzzy, but in the Chaz and/or Portland situations didn’t they exclude cops from the zones? A much more antagonistic stance there from protestors. 

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NAVY

NAVY 6739

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36 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I'm not an expert on traffic logistics or urban planning, but as stated above, I don't think they appear to be "basically the same shit".  The Canada actions created a clear slowdown in intercountry commerce which essentially shut down some automakers processes for a few days. 

I think it's important to understand the similarities, but it's more important to understand why this may have evoked a different political response.

How dare you post something so reasonable and devoid of extravagant political venom. This is surly and the CR! 

Actually, really well done. pos rep

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

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39 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Can someone support working class protests in Portland & Canada?

Sure. But that wouldn't be the OP or the other people angry about Canada in this thread. We already know their feelings on Portland and blocking streets. 

This seems like a protest working as intended. It disrupts things enough and forces government action to remove them. The message has been made. For whatever reason our right wing friends don't realize that civil disobedience is just one form of political protest. While it can be a very effective and one, it also has consequences for the protestors. You have to be prepared for those consequences if you engage in civil disobedience. I also don't know enough about the laws of Canada to know whether Trudeau's actions are some sort of governmental overreach. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

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12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Sure. But that wouldn't be the OP or the other people angry about Canada in this thread. We already know their feelings on Portland and blocking streets. 

This seems like a protest working as intended. It disrupts things enough and forces government action to remove them. The message has been made. For whatever reason our right wing friends don't realize that civil disobedience is just one form of political protest. While it can be a very effective and one, it also has consequences for the protestors. You have to be prepared for those consequences if you engage in civil disobedience. I also don't know enough about the laws of Canada to know whether Trudeau's actions are some sort of governmental overreach. 

Over 100 people were arrested in North Dakota and Minnesota for blocking parts of pipeline construction. Some were peaceful, others less so. Some were blocking the roadways, others were trespassing, some weren't doing any of those. The temptation from bystanders to treat each situation as 'all protest bad/good' should not be allowed to flourish for the reasons you state above. It's complicated.

 

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mchookem

mchookem 16225

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4 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Jordan Klepper doing God's work.  Good to see Canada has people just as stupid as the USA, so it isn't just a United States phenomenon.

 

 

Klepper: so you think this protest will inspire the dickheads in America?

*looks at thread*

 

 

mmhmm-okay.gif

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3360

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2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

He said he liked their basic dictatorship. It's like you just saw the China part, and didn't go further. Also "right wingers pounce"

“Trudeau’s rivals pounced on that.” Is a direct quote at around the minute mark from the video you posted. He made a ham fisted joke about how much easier it is for a dictatorship like a China to flip a switch to go green.  I don’t follow Canadian politics especially from 8 years ago, but my guess is his gov’t was running into issues pushing their green agenda through so he tried to make a funny in front of a bunch of women and politics gonna politic. Would you like to see how many times Trump has praised dictators in a similar fashion or do you only hold Canadians accountable?

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lemonlime

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1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Sure. But that wouldn't be the OP or the other people angry about Canada in this thread. We already know their feelings on Portland and blocking streets. 

This seems like a protest working as intended. It disrupts things enough and forces government action to remove them. The message has been made. For whatever reason our right wing friends don't realize that civil disobedience is just one form of political protest. While it can be a very effective and one, it also has consequences for the protestors. You have to be prepared for those consequences if you engage in civil disobedience. I also don't know enough about the laws of Canada to know whether Trudeau's actions are some sort of governmental overreach. 

Also the reason behind the civil disobedience matters.  The truckers are engaging in civil disobedience over mask mandates and vaccines against a disease that's killed millions in the last two years during a pandemic, taking the position that a shot or a face mask are huge impositions on their freedumbs.  And then whining like babies over there being consequences to civil disobedience.  It's civil disobedience protesting police murdering citizens that the right believes should result in running people over and state sanctioned murder.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

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37 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Also the reason behind the civil disobedience matters.  The truckers are engaging in civil disobedience over mask mandates and vaccines against a disease that's killed millions in the last two years during a pandemic, taking the position that a shot or a face mask are huge impositions on their freedumbs.  And then whining like babies over there being consequences to civil disobedience.  It's civil disobedience protesting police murdering citizens that the right believes should result in running people over and state sanctioned murder.

It matters in the sense that we can judge one cause as worthy and one as not worthy. But from a freedom of speech aspect (to the extent such a thing applies to Canada), I believe they should be treated the same. If laws are violated, whether for a worthy cause or not, then the consequences should be in keeping with the laws. If laws aren't violated, then the expression should be allowed unhindered. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29260

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18 minutes ago, Goodman said:

This could never happen here, never to us...Just don't ask questions or think you have human rights.

Boy have I got something to tell you about...[checks notes]...the entirety of American history.

Abusive prosecutorial and law enforcement tactics are used against the far right last, not first.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

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3 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

“Trudeau’s rivals pounced on that.” Is a direct quote at around the minute mark from the video you posted. He made a ham fisted joke about how much easier it is for a dictatorship like a China to flip a switch to go green.  I don’t follow Canadian politics especially from 8 years ago, but my guess is his gov’t was running into issues pushing their green agenda through so he tried to make a funny in front of a bunch of women and politics gonna politic. Would you like to see how many times Trump has praised dictators in a similar fashion or do you only hold Canadians accountable?

Hey, it was a joke. Wait, didn't Gosar retweet something that was also a joke, and got in trouble for it?

I mean dictatorships are so non-violent, and are much different than a meme of beheading a titan that looked like AOC. See that wasn't a joke.

We can play whataboutism.

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Genco

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15 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Hey, it was a joke. Wait, didn't Gosar retweet something that was also a joke, and got in trouble for it?

I mean dictatorships are so non-violent, and are much different than a meme of beheading a titan that looked like AOC. See that wasn't a joke.

We can play whataboutism.

star get GIF

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3360

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17 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Hey, it was a joke. Wait, didn't Gosar retweet something that was also a joke, and got in trouble for it?

I mean dictatorships are so non-violent, and are much different than a meme of beheading a titan that looked like AOC. See that wasn't a joke.

We can play whataboutism.

At this point I’m not sure you could play with crayons without hurting yourself if that’s really your take. I’ll take your lack of an answer about Trump’s fellatio of dictators as an answer. 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

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4 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

 It sure is a bitch claiming to be The Party of Law and Order and The Party of Unlimited Freedoms at the same time, ain't it?

I'd like to see where people have said unlimited freedoms. 

It must suck to be the Party of Defund the Police, and The Party of Tyranny When Convenient.

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