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1 in 5 migrant children recently placed by HHS into “foster care or whatever” are missing!

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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Posted
8 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

What are we? The world's welfare office? Shouldn't we take care of our own homeless before taking on any more homeless?

Some people believe their notions of right and wrong are more important than the laws of our country.  Bullneck is one of those who think their notions of right and wrong are somehow above the law.

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19206

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

What are we? The world's welfare office? Shouldn't we take care of our own homeless before taking on any more homeless?

1.  We are a nation of immigrants.  Here's a question for you, and a chance to prove you're not an idoit.  Where can one find this quote:

Quote

“Give me your tired, your poor, 
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. 
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: 
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

2.  We are, in fact, the world's welfare office.  We should lead from the front.  We should give aid so that others may have stable, meaningful lives.  We should promote economic equality, which, by the way, helps to stop mass migration.  We should spread democracy by example.

3.  We should solve our homeless crisis.  I was in DC this last weekend and was astounded at the number of homeless in the West End.  I was driving in Philly two weeks ago under a railroad underpass and saw probably 35-40 tents.  In NYC, where our home office is located, there is a homeless person every 50 feet.  We can only solve this by the power of our government and its economy of scale.  

But we need not wait.  The people desperate to flee Central America have a life to live as well.  (Separately we might ponder why Central America has such problems.  See answer #2).  We believe all men (and women) are created equal, no?  And that all people have the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Wherever they are, whomever they are.  

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19206

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Some people believe their notions of right and wrong are more important than the laws of our country.  Bullneck is one of those who think their notions of right and wrong are somehow above the law.

I do.  Remember, slavery was the law once. It was not right.  It is never right.  

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19206

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Some people believe their notions of right and wrong are more important than the laws of our country.  Bullneck is one of those who think their notions of right and wrong are somehow above the law.

By the way, as a former Marine (on Memorial Day, no less), I will remind you that you are not obligated to illegal orders.  

On Board, you have to have a moral compass.

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19206

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You're learned nothing. You've gotten nothing about me correct that you've posted so your batting average is 1000.

Apparently English is not part of the course curriculum at Fox New University.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

1.  We are a nation of immigrants.  Here's a question for you, and a chance to prove you're not an idoit.  Where can one find this quote:

2.  We are, in fact, the world's welfare office.  We should lead from the front.  We should give aid so that others may have stable, meaningful lives.  We should promote economic equality, which, by the way, helps to stop mass migration.  We should spread democracy by example.

3.  We should solve our homeless crisis.  I was in DC this last weekend and was astounded at the number of homeless in the West End.  I was driving in Philly two weeks ago under a railroad underpass and saw probably 35-40 tents.  In NYC, where our home office is located, there is a homeless person every 50 feet.  We can only solve this by the power of our government and its economy of scale.  

But we need not wait.  The people desperate to flee Central America have a life to live as well.  (Separately we might ponder why Central America has such problems.  See answer #2).  We believe all men (and women) are created equal, no?  And that all people have the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Wherever they are, whomever they are.  

Jesus Christ people always pullout that little piece of verbiage and try to make it like it's law because its inscribed on a statue given to us. Grow up.

Yer favorite song is I'd like to buy the world a coke isn't it ?

1. Wow what a compelling  argument. Every country started with immigrants.  That has nothing to do with rule of law, but again Bullenck doesn't like rule of law so fuck that notion, what matters is his concepts of what's right and wrong. 

2. No no we're not, and yet I'm willing  to bet we give more than any other nation on the planet to other nations and people.

It is not our repsonsibility to care for people from other countries, yet we do much more than others already. It's also not your right to force other citizens to do it because you think it's the right thing to do.

 

3. Yes we should, and when it's solved we can solve the worlds problems

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

By the way, as a former Marine (on Memorial Day, no less), I will remind you that you are not obligated to illegal orders.  

On Board, you have to have a moral compass.

I do, and it is not much diferent than most peoples.  Most people want prosperity for themselves and others, but we are not a welfare state for the world. And if we become one we'll not be the nation of success we have been since post WWII. 

I appreciate and salute your service to our country, but that hasn't got a thing to do with the issue at hand which is its illegal to enter the country without proper procedure, and people who do should be sent back or processed with political asylum in mind if its applicable.

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futureman

futureman 22545

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, R2D2 said:

That the Republican party is pro life and pro family is laughable.

The right wing hates humanity. Conservatives should be catapulted from earth to die as asphyxiated space angels.

 

8 hours ago, R2D2 said:

Hey -- if there's a heaven, why has no astronaut ever snapped a picture of it!! 

There is a hell though, it's Trump's America.

this is so awesome. 

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bullneck said:

1.  We are a nation of immigrants.  Here's a question for you, and a chance to prove you're not an idoit.  Where can one find this quote:

2.  We are, in fact, the world's welfare office.  We should lead from the front.  We should give aid so that others may have stable, meaningful lives.  We should promote economic equality, which, by the way, helps to stop mass migration.  We should spread democracy by example.

3.  We should solve our homeless crisis.  I was in DC this last weekend and was astounded at the number of homeless in the West End.  I was driving in Philly two weeks ago under a railroad underpass and saw probably 35-40 tents.  In NYC, where our home office is located, there is a homeless person every 50 feet.  We can only solve this by the power of our government and its economy of scale.  

But we need not wait.  The people desperate to flee Central America have a life to live as well.  (Separately we might ponder why Central America has such problems.  See answer #2).  We believe all men (and women) are created equal, no?  And that all people have the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Wherever they are, whomever they are.  

1. On the Statue of Liberty. This was written at a time when welfare did not exist.  People were coming here to work, not get handouts.

2. We are not responsible for other countries citizens. You any feel like we should be, but that does not mean that we are. 

 

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19206

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

1. On the Statue of Liberty. This was written at a time when welfare did not exist.  People were coming here to work, not get handouts.

2. We are not responsible for other countries citizens. You any feel like we should be, but that does not mean that we are. 

 

Think about the way our government has behaved for decades (and still does) and tell me who is closer to the truth.  Or putting it another way, with your worldview, are you pissed that the US government does so many of the things it does?  Think about all that foreign aid and the sanctuary cities and the blind eye to some many possibilities to arrest and deport.  Hell, we KNOW those DACA children are here illegally and someone actually wants to keep them!!

 

So the answer is (and I think you know this even if you don't want to admit it) is that we are the world's policeman and the world's welfare office.  We are singular and exceptional.  We have what no other country has.  

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

Think about the way our government has behaved for decades (and still does) and tell me who is closer to the truth.  Or putting it another way, with your worldview, are you pissed that the US government does so many of the things it does?  Think about all that foreign aid and the sanctuary cities and the blind eye to some many possibilities to arrest and deport.  Hell, we KNOW those DACA children are here illegally and someone actually wants to keep them!!

 

So the answer is (and I think you know this even if you don't want to admit it) is that we are the world's policeman and the world's welfare office.  We are singular and exceptional.  We have what no other country has.  

Yes I'm pissed. We can find millions of dollars to give to other countries, but cannot take care of our own people. It's ridiculous. Let's say my kids are hungry and do not have clothes but I see the neighbor's kids and they have it even worse than mine do. I'm still going to take care of my kids first and then I would help someone else. That's just the way I am.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14779

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Pods said:

The whole thing is sad. The fact that you find any part of this overreaction or funny is sad. The fact that you're looking for gotcha moments and are not concerned that we are separating even more kids and putting them into a clearly flawed system is very sad. 

 

It's also sad that these kids weren't separated from their parents, as they were unaccompanied minors. Most likely they aren't missing either, as they are probably with some family member hiding from deportation.

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6690

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Posted
24 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

1. On the Statue of Liberty. This was written at a time when welfare did not exist.  People were coming here to work, not get handouts.

2. We are not responsible for other countries citizens. You any feel like we should be, but that does not mean that we are. 

 

People are coming here to work now, and the people that benefit the most from their labor are GOP-aligned.

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Tyler Durden

Tyler Durden 132

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Posted

If that is true, why did you write the part about "not getting handouts"?  You might not be such a random idiot.  Don't be a pussy and own your idiotic statement.  I am willing to bet the people you look down on work harder than both of us.

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

If that is true, why did you write the part about "not getting handouts"?  You might not be such a random idiot.  Don't be a pussy and own your idiotic statement.  I am willing to bet the people you look down on work harder than both of us.

I do not want to give handouts, not even to citizens. If you are able to work, you should work. Don't come here, have a bunch of kids and expect the US to support them. Sorry that you don't like that I don't like able-bodied people with their hand out.

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

You seemingly agreed that people were coming here to work but said they need to do it the legal way.  Own your idiotic statement.  Your reply does nothing to address your agreement that people coming here are not coming for handouts.  

I said I'm all for people coming here to work.

People are coming here to work now, and the people that benefit the most from their labor are GOP-aligned.

And I'm all for that. Do it the legal way. 

 

Did I say everyone who comes here is coming to work? No I did not. The people who want to come here and drop anchor hoping for money from the government are the ones that I have a problem with. I even elaborated on that and said that citizens who are able to work should not get handouts either. 

 

And the second part of my response was to clarify that people may be willing to come and work, but that does not mean that they should just be allowed to cross over freely. They need to go through the process like so many before them did.

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

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Posted
Just now, Tyler Durden said:

This implies people today are different.  

Because welfare did not exist like it does today. Maybe they were starting a new life, maybe they were running away from home, maybe they were looking for business opportunities. They were not looking for welfare that did not exist.

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

And the people today are looking for a handout?

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? I won't just take their word for it.

 

How can I trust the ones who try to sneak in, or the ones who skip their court date and disappear?

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Viper

Viper 12112

Posted
Posted

this is a more complex "problem" than all the emotional outrage now conveys.

 

https://reason.com/blog/2018/05/29/lost-refugee-kids

Quote


The children may be lost, or they may be with people trying to keep them away from immigration agents for a reason. "The problem," writes Ephrat Livni at Qz, "is that many of those missing kids may well be with their parents or families, and they may have gone off the grid deliberately to avoid" ICE agents. Livni explains further:

Once a child joins a sponsor, the ORR relinquishes responsibility—that's what has people up in arms now. The sponsorship agreement essentially leaves it up to the child and their sponsors to show up for further immigration proceedings.

That's not great. But demands to crack down on ORR release policies could make things worse for the kids who disappeared, and for those who will continue to arrive alone at the border. Asking ORR to be more strict about releasing undocumented kids, and keeping an eye on them after they are released, could make it harder for sponsors to step up and take in their family members. It could also incentivize more disappearances for those who do, forcing more families to exist underground to avoid authorities.

 

 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27588

Posted
Posted
On 5/28/2018 at 7:39 PM, Pods said:

The whole thing is sad. The fact that you find any part of this overreaction or funny is sad. The fact that you're looking for gotcha moments and are not concerned that we are separating even more kids and putting them into a clearly flawed system is very sad. 

 

One can both be outraged at what continues to be a tragedy while also disappointed in (but not surprised at) and critical of the clearly partisan attempts to use it to make political hay. It’s not either or, and you seem to be evolving into an either/or guy 

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JBJ

JBJ 3665

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

One can both be outraged at what continues to be a tragedy while also disappointed in (but not surprised at) and critical of the clearly partisan attempts to use it to make political hay. It’s not either or, and you seem to be evolving into an either/or guy 

This thread is still confused... probably because the tweet in the op is "fake news." 

We didn't lose these kids, these kids are trying to disappear.  It's a failure of immigration enforcement first. We weren't even trying to track them under Obama until we found out some "escaped" into slavery.  Now that we are actually trying to account for them, it is this administrations fault?  Hardly.

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JBJ

JBJ 3665

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That’s only partly true. Some and likely many are not trying to disappear; rather they have been / are being trafficked. Watch the frontline episode

I will, but I seriously doubt more than 5% of those missing went missing for a reason other than on their own accord.

This is an immigration enforcement problem (which was policy under the previous administration).  The human trafficking problem is ancillary and enabled by poor immigration policy.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4823

Posted
Posted
On 5/28/2018 at 10:41 PM, RandomIdoit said:

1. On the Statue of Liberty. This was written at a time when welfare did not exist.  People were coming here to work, not get handouts.

2. We are not responsible for other countries citizens. You any feel like we should be, but that does not mean that we are. 

 

While this thread talks about immigrant kids, it has brought up American policy towards foreign countries because it all goes together.  Bullneck made that first comment with the three things that tied it all together.     

 

1. So what is a handout?  Do corporate tax cuts count?  https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2014/03/14/where-is-the-outrage-over-corporate-welfare/#3bae51d327dd

 

2. We shouldn't be responsible for them, we should just use backdoor imperialistic methods to take their natural resources.   You guys want to go on about how much we gave/give other countries.   I am not going too far out on a limb to say not all of it was humanitarian based, but most was masked that way.  How much of that money ends up lining the pockets of American businesses like Halliburton?  

 

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 657

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Posted

 

47 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

While this thread talks about immigrant kids, it has brought up American policy towards foreign countries because it all goes together.  Bullneck made that first comment with the three things that tied it all together.     

 

1. So what is a handout?  Do corporate tax cuts count?  https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2014/03/14/where-is-the-outrage-over-corporate-welfare/#3bae51d327dd

 

2. We shouldn't be responsible for them, we should just use backdoor imperialistic methods to take their natural resources.   You guys want to go on about how much we gave/give other countries.   I am not going too far out on a limb to say not all of it was humanitarian based, but most was masked that way.  How much of that money ends up lining the pockets of American businesses like Halliburton?  

 

1. I'm not for corporate welfare. I think Trump wanted to help his rich friends save money and did it under the guise of helping create jobs and stimulate the economy. I have a hard time believing this will have the impact the talking heads say it will. However, the corporate tax rate in the US is now about average according to Forbes.

2. Curtail the foreign spending. I don't care if it goes to Halliburton or some people who really need it, stop spending it and take care of the US citizens who need it first. Invest in mental health facilities and job training.

Side note: One of the programs I like the most is Habitat for Humanity. If you want a house, you have to put in 350-400 hours working on your or someone else's house. I would consider this a great example of helping people who want to help themselves. Definitely NOT a handout in my book.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Posted
1 hour ago, RandomIdoit said:

 

1. I'm not for corporate welfare. I think Trump wanted to help his rich friends save money and did it under the guise of helping create jobs and stimulate the economy. I have a hard time believing this will have the impact the talking heads say it will. However, the corporate tax rate in the US is now about average according to Forbes.

 2. Curtail the foreign spending. I don't care if it goes to Halliburton or some people who really need it, stop spending it and take care of the US citizens who need it first. Invest in mental health facilities and job training.

Side note: One of the programs I like the most is Habitat for Humanity. If you want a house, you have to put in 350-400 hours working on your or someone else's house. I would consider this a great example of helping people who want to help themselves. Definitely NOT a handout in my book.

Habitat is great.  More of a hand up than a handout.

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Tennesseehorn

Tennesseehorn 101

Posted
Posted
On 5/28/2018 at 8:32 PM, Bullneck said:

1.  We are a nation of immigrants.  Here's a question for you, and a chance to prove you're not an idoit.  Where can one find this quote:

2.  We are, in fact, the world's welfare office.  We should lead from the front.  We should give aid so that others may have stable, meaningful lives.  We should promote economic equality, which, by the way, helps to stop mass migration.  We should spread democracy by example.

3.  We should solve our homeless crisis.  I was in DC this last weekend and was astounded at the number of homeless in the West End.  I was driving in Philly two weeks ago under a railroad underpass and saw probably 35-40 tents.  In NYC, where our home office is located, there is a homeless person every 50 feet.  We can only solve this by the power of our government and its economy of scale.  

But we need not wait.  The people desperate to flee Central America have a life to live as well.  (Separately we might ponder why Central America has such problems.  See answer #2).  We believe all men (and women) are created equal, no?  And that all people have the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Wherever they are, whomever they are.  

The winner of a poetry contest? Refugee advocate Emma Lazarus because it sure as shit ain't US policy.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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Posted
On 5/30/2018 at 12:14 PM, RandomIdoit said:

 

1. I'm not for corporate welfare. I think Trump wanted to help his rich friends save money and did it under the guise of helping create jobs and stimulate the economy. I have a hard time believing this will have the impact the talking heads say it will. However, the corporate tax rate in the US is now about average according to Forbes.

2. Curtail the foreign spending. I don't care if it goes to Halliburton or some people who really need it, stop spending it and take care of the US citizens who need it first. Invest in mental health facilities and job training.

Side note: One of the programs I like the most is Habitat for Humanity. If you want a house, you have to put in 350-400 hours working on your or someone else's house. I would consider this a great example of helping people who want to help themselves. Definitely NOT a handout in my book.

Right click. Google image search. Thank you very much. 

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TornACL

TornACL 7722

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Posted

I suspect that the numbers of actual missing or detained orphans being reported are inflated / incorrect, but I also suspect that the separation of children and parents is a deliberate strategy to scare future border - jumpers into reconsidering. 

One has to allow themselves a moment to consider how barbaric and inhumane an approach this is. Surely there is a better alternative. 

There's a reason that the administration wants to convince you that a majority of immigrants are gang members, rapists, or lazy layabouts. I can assure you it's not to find a reasoned and humane compromise on the issue. Deflect and defer. 

The ridiculous thing is we've been through this exact same song and dance during every wave of immigration during times of global unrest. And every time we fall into the same lazy bunkers and never do shit to fix anything. Just hide behind partisan lines and spout bullshit fear mongering. 

Today's Hondurans are yesterday's Irish. And so it goes, because no one has the brains or balls to do anything of substance. 

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